FAA Notice N8900.204 - English Proficiency

[JohnDeRosa]

Has everyone seen the below? Comments?

Spoken English proficiency might be "easy" to determine during routine
meetings, but what about written? Ask the pilot to write an essay?
Will the CFI(G) remain anonymous when they "turns in" a pilot to the
FSDO for mispronouncing "Antidisestablishmentarianism"?

=========================================

http://www.faasafety.gov/spans/noticeView.aspx?nid=4551

FAAST Blast to all CFIs

In accordance with FAA Notice N8900.204, which was effective
01/11/2013, we wish to inform you of your responsibility to identify
any applicant for a certificate or rating who does not demonstrate the
English language skill standards in accordance with 14 CFR regulations
and FAA policy. You should report appropriate information about the
airman to the nearest FSDO. The FSDO ASI will then take action in
accordance with Order 8900.1, Volume 5, Chapter 2, Section 5.

Discussion. Title 14 CFR parts 61, 63, and 65 address English language
skills currently required for airman certification. Part 61 requires
that pilots must be able to read, write, speak, and understand the
English language. The responsibility for ensuring applicants meet the
English language eligibility requirements is shared by CFIs and GIs,
part 141 and non-part 141 aviation pilot training schools, part 142
training centers, TCEs, DPEs, ASIs, and AMEs.

Consequences of Failing to Meet the English Language Proficiency
Requirements. Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, no
person may exercise the privileges of an airman certificate issued
under part 61, 63, or 65 unless that person meets the English language
proficiency requirements of those parts. If a person holding an airman
certificate issued under these parts does not meet the English
language proficiency requirements, the Administrator will take action
to suspend, revoke, or reissue that person’s airman certificate; this
action is permitted under Title 49 of the United States Code (49
U.S.C.) § 44709.

The complete Notice can be found at http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/orders_notices
and is available on FAASafety.gov at https://www.faasafety.gov/files/notices/2013/Jan/N_8900_204.pdf

[Peter von Tresckow]

JohnDeRosa > wrote:
> Has everyone seen the below? Comments?
>
> Spoken English proficiency might be "easy" to determine during routine
> meetings, but what about written? Ask the pilot to write an essay?
> Will the CFI(G) remain anonymous when they "turns in" a pilot to the
> FSDO for mispronouncing "Antidisestablishmentarianism"?
>
> ========================================
> http://www.faasafety.gov/spans/noticeView.aspx?nidE51
>
> FAAST Blast to all CFIs
>
> In accordance with FAA Notice N8900.204, which was effective
> 01/11/2013, we wish to inform you of your responsibility to identify
> any applicant for a certificate or rating who does not demonstrate the
> English language skill standards in accordance with 14 CFR regulations
> and FAA policy. You should report appropriate information about the
> airman to the nearest FSDO. The FSDO ASI will then take action in
> accordance with Order 8900.1, Volume 5, Chapter 2, Section 5.
>
> Discussion. Title 14 CFR parts 61, 63, and 65 address English language
> skills currently required for airman certification. Part 61 requires
> that pilots must be able to read, write, speak, and understand the
> English language. The responsibility for ensuring applicants meet the
> English language eligibility requirements is shared by CFIs and GIs,
> part 141 and non-part 141 aviation pilot training schools, part 142
> training centers, TCEs, DPEs, ASIs, and AMEs.
>
> Consequences of Failing to Meet the English Language Proficiency
> Requirements. Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, no
> person may exercise the privileges of an airman certificate issued
> under part 61, 63, or 65 unless that person meets the English language
> proficiency requirements of those parts. If a person holding an airman
> certificate issued under these parts does not meet the English
> language proficiency requirements, the Administrator will take action
> to suspend, revoke, or reissue that persons airman certificate; this
> action is permitted under Title 49 of the United States Code (49
> U.S.C.) § 44709.
>
> The complete Notice can be found at http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/orders_notices
> and is available on FAASafety.gov at
> https://www.faasafety.gov/files/notices/2013/Jan/N_8900_204.pdf

I guess you could review their RAS postings for both grammatical quality
and general sanity :-)

The second part may be harder to discern during the winter...

Pete

[T[_2_]]

I discussed this with some fellow CFIs. We figured if a student was having trouble with English, the training would not go well, and we would not be signing them off for a check ride.

So what would be the need to report a student with problems with English to the FAA? It's not an issue until its time to sign the 8710.
Besides, I know a few people (pilots) that have problems communicating, whether it be in English, Spanglish, or jibberish.

T

[Peter von Tresckow]

T > wrote:
> I discussed this with some fellow CFIs. We figured if a student was
> having trouble with English, the training would not go well, and we would
> not be signing them off for a check ride.
>
> So what would be the need to report a student with problems with English
> to the FAA? It's not an issue until its time to sign the 8710.
> Besides, I know a few people (pilots) that have problems communicating,
> whether it be in English, Spanglish, or jibberish.
>
> T

I honestly think that this is more aimed at the puppy mulls in Az and Fl
that turn out foreign pilots by the boatload. I've heard some interesting
stories of amazingly bad English around some of those places...

Pete

[T[_2_]]

Yes, but all CFIs get caught up with the FAA Notice to do the FAA's job for them.

So sure, I'll sign an 8710 recommending a check ride, and warn the FAA or DPE that this guy may have problems understanding your instructions during a check ride. So why would i sign an 8710 with a known failure as the result?

This goes back to the TSA instruction for CFIs to be able to determine that birth certificates or other US identification is not a forgery and we are teaching US citizens and not foreigners.

T

[Hartley Falbaum]

On Tuesday, February 12, 2013 8:37:47 PM UTC-5, T wrote:
> Yes, but all CFIs get caught up with the FAA Notice to do the FAA's job for them.
>

This goes beyond checkrides and 8710s. Strictly interpreted, a Flight Review disclosing a language proficiency problem should be reported to the FAA.
https://www.faasafety.gov/files/notices/2013/Jan/N_8900_204.pdf mentions an Advisory Circular with the criteria for English Language proficiency. While aimed at International students, it does not exclude US citizens. Judgement is called for here.

[RRK]

On Tuesday, February 12, 2013 11:29:39 AM UTC-5, JohnDeRosa wrote:
> Has everyone seen the below? Comments?
>
>
>
> Spoken English proficiency might be "easy" to determine during routine
>
> meetings, but what about written? Ask the pilot to write an essay?
>
> Will the CFI(G) remain anonymous when they "turns in" a pilot to the
>
> FSDO for mispronouncing "Antidisestablishmentarianism"?
>
>
>
> =========================================
>
>
>
> http://www.faasafety.gov/spans/noticeView.aspx?nid=4551
>
>
>
> FAAST Blast to all CFIs
>
>
>
> In accordance with FAA Notice N8900.204, which was effective
>
> 01/11/2013, we wish to inform you of your responsibility to identify
>
> any applicant for a certificate or rating who does not demonstrate the
>
> English language skill standards in accordance with 14 CFR regulations
>
> and FAA policy. You should report appropriate information about the
>
> airman to the nearest FSDO. The FSDO ASI will then take action in
>
> accordance with Order 8900.1, Volume 5, Chapter 2, Section 5.
>
>
>
> Discussion. Title 14 CFR parts 61, 63, and 65 address English language
>
> skills currently required for airman certification. Part 61 requires
>
> that pilots must be able to read, write, speak, and understand the
>
> English language. The responsibility for ensuring applicants meet the
>
> English language eligibility requirements is shared by CFIs and GIs,
>
> part 141 and non-part 141 aviation pilot training schools, part 142
>
> training centers, TCEs, DPEs, ASIs, and AMEs.
>
>
>
> Consequences of Failing to Meet the English Language Proficiency
>
> Requirements. Unless otherwise authorized by the Administrator, no
>
> person may exercise the privileges of an airman certificate issued
>
> under part 61, 63, or 65 unless that person meets the English language
>
> proficiency requirements of those parts. If a person holding an airman
>
> certificate issued under these parts does not meet the English
>
> language proficiency requirements, the Administrator will take action
>
> to suspend, revoke, or reissue that person’s airman certificate; this
>
> action is permitted under Title 49 of the United States Code (49
>
> U.S.C.) § 44709.
>
>
>
> The complete Notice can be found at http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/orders_notices
>
> and is available on FAASafety.gov at https://www.faasafety.gov/files/notices/2013/Jan/N_8900_204.pdf

It would be highly unethical to even start the training of someone who does not meet the English language proficiency requirements. He pays money and certainly should be inform of his potential problems.

[JohnDeRosa]

I spoke this week to a newly minted CFIG at my home club's board
meeting. He is about as steeped as you can get on analyzing the tea
leaves for the latest and greatest FAA "leanings".

We agreed that there are several stops along the path of who can spot
and resolve issues with non-English proficient students.

1) FSDO - When the candidate applies for a student certificate. If
accepted by the FSDO, this implies a "English proficiency" blessing
from the FAA. At least in some limited way. Right? Hmmmmm.
2) CFIG - During initial training towards solo.
3) FAA Exam Site - During written exam. This would be a clear
stopping point if they fail due to lack of English (written)
proficiency. Of course reading a foreign language is easier than
either speaking, verbally understanding or writing a foreign language.
4) DPE - During a check ride (oral and practical).

The point here is that when my club accepts a student, we are not
incurring direct responsibility to determine proficiency or to "turn
in" someone who is not. We do have some "moral" responsibility to not
lead someone down a path that they will clearly fail.

That being said, to cover our bases, we have decided to update our
application process to ask potential new members if they are "English
Proficient", and if they are US citizens, along with the words, "As
required by the Federal Aviation Administration."

- John

[JohnDeRosa]

I just was told by that same CFIG that both an AME and DPE can write
student pilot's certificates. Who knew??

- John

[Mike the Strike]

American English is a foreign language!

Mike

[GM]

On Thursday, February 14, 2013 11:44:25 PM UTC-5, Mike the Strike wrote:
> American English is a foreign language! Mike

I am working with a coupls of guys here in SC who I am sure would not pass that test as far as the spoken part goes. I see their lips move but am not sure if there are actually words being formed! ;-)
Uli

[T[_2_]]

FSDO or DPE can issue a Student Pilot certificate for students learning in aircraft that do not require a medical evaluation.
Gliders, Balloon, and I think Light Sport airplane. It will state, limited to glider or balloon.

An AME is required for the Class 3 medical evaluation and can issue the student certificate with medical certificate.
T

[Burt Compton - Marfa]

On Friday, February 15, 2013 8:55:48 PM UTC-8, T wrote:
> FSDO or DPE can issue a Student Pilot certificate for students learning in aircraft that do not require a medical evaluation.

> Gliders, Balloon, and I think Light Sport airplane. It will state, limited to glider or balloon.
>

" . . . limited to glider or balloon."
Please share your reference requiring this statement when you issue Student Pilot Certificates in your DPE handbook Order 8900.2 chg. 1.

I can't locate it and I need to know if this is new!
By the way, in what FAA region are you an Examiner?
Thanks.