Reagan and AF"1"

[kage]

On the topic of President Reagan.

After he ordered the Boeing 747's as new Air Force One's, his first two
rides in them were in his CASKET.

Best,
Karl
"remote from Chicago"

[Marty]

"kage" > wrote in message
...
> On the topic of President Reagan.
>
> After he ordered the Boeing 747's as new Air Force One's, his first two
> rides in them were in his CASKET.
>
> Best,
> Karl
> "remote from Chicago"
>
>

Yeah, but think about it. It still wasn't technically AF "1" without G'
DUBBYA on board!

[Robert M. Gary]

They mentioned on the news that it was not really "Airforce 1" because
Bush did not fly out to California too.


"Marty" > wrote in message news:<5vMyc.78


>...
> "kage" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On the topic of President Reagan.
> >
> > After he ordered the Boeing 747's as new Air Force One's, his first two
> > rides in them were in his CASKET.
> >
> > Best,
> > Karl
> > "remote from Chicago"
> >
> >
>
> Yeah, but think about it. It still wasn't technically AF "1" without G'
> DUBBYA on board!

[Marty]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
m...
> They mentioned on the news that it was not really "Airforce 1" because
> Bush did not fly out to California too.
>
>

Robert,

Thanks for the clarification. I didn't see that portion of the events myself
but my Dad insisted they called it "AF1".
I just said OK to avoid another senseless argument between us.
;-)

Marty

[Cub Driver]

>but my Dad insisted they called it "AF1".
>I just said OK to avoid another senseless argument between us.

I'm sure your dad was right, and that "they" -- the newscasters --
called it Air Force One.

The idea that a plane could have a different name, depending on the
passenger, is not one that is easily grasped. It's like having an
ocean liner that's called the QE II only when the queen is on board.

It must be particularly stressful when Air Force One becomes Air Force
Two.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! www.vivabush.org

[tony]

>
>I'm sure your dad was right, and that "they" -- the newscasters --
>called it Air Force One.
>
>The idea that a plane could have a different name, depending on the
>passenger, is not one that is easily grasped. It's like having an
>ocean liner that's called the QE II only when the queen is on board.
>
>It must be particularly stressful when Air Force One becomes Air Force
>Two.


way back when I took PPL training at East Coast Aerotech at Hanscom AFB (BED)
their training airplanes were called something like Tech 1, Tech 7, or
whatever, not by their N numbers.

Airliners under air traffic control identify themselves by their flight
numbers.

In the case of training flights, it surely alerted the tower people the
aircraft was probably being driven by a student, and instructions like
"expidite approach" would be inappropiate.

In the case of "Air Force One" it more likely means to controllers that nota
all aircraft are created equal. AF 1 is number one to land from 50 miles out!
I'll bet they don't often get told to take a 360 for spacing!

AJW

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"tony" > wrote in message
...
>
> In the case of "Air Force One" it more likely means to controllers that
> nota all aircraft are created equal. AF 1 is number one to land from 50
> miles out! I'll bet they don't often get told to take a 360 for spacing!
>

ATC services are provided on a first come, first served basis, with a few
exceptions. Presidential aircraft are given priority over most other
aircraft, but not all other aircraft. Top priority is given to aircraft in
distress, and if it was deemed necessary for A1 to do a 360, A1 would be
given a 360.


FAA Order 7110.65P Air Traffic Control

Chapter 2. General Control

Section 1. General

2-1-4. OPERATIONAL PRIORITY

Provide air traffic control service to aircraft on a "first come, first
served" basis as circumstances permit, except the following:

NOTE-
It is solely the pilot's prerogative to cancel an IFR flight plan. However,
a pilot's retention of an IFR flight plan does not afford priority over VFR
aircraft. For example, this does not preclude the requirement for the pilot
of an arriving IFR aircraft to adjust his/her flight path, as necessary, to
enter a traffic pattern in sequence with arriving VFR aircraft.

a. An aircraft in distress has the right of way over all other air
traffic.

REFERENCE-
14 CFR Section 91.113(c).

b. Provide priority to civilian air ambulance flights "LIFEGUARD." Air
carrier/taxi usage of the "LIFEGUARD" call sign, indicates that operational
priority is requested. When verbally requested, provide priority to military
air evacuation flights (AIR EVAC, MED EVAC) and scheduled air carrier/air
taxi flights. Assist the pilots of air ambulance/evacuation aircraft to
avoid areas of significant weather and turbulent conditions. When requested
by a pilot, provide notifications to expedite ground handling of patients,
vital organs, or urgently needed medical materials.

NOTE-
It is recognized that heavy traffic flow may affect the controller's
ability to provide priority handling. However, without compromising safety,
good judgement shall be used in each situation to facilitate the most
expeditious movement of a lifeguard aircraft.

c. Provide maximum assistance to SAR aircraft performing a SAR mission.

REFERENCE-
FAAO 7110.65, Providing Assistance, Para 10-1-3.

d. Expedite the movement of presidential aircraft and entourage and any
rescue support aircraft as well as related control messages when traffic
conditions and communications facilities permit.

NOTE-
As used herein the terms presidential aircraft and entourage include
aircraft and entourage of the President, Vice President, or other public
figures when designated by the White House.

REFERENCE-
FAAO 7110.65, Aircraft Identification, Para 2-4-20.
FAAO 7110.65, Departure Clearances, Para 4-3-2.
FAAO 7210.3, Advance Coordination, Para 5-1-1.

e. Provide special handling, as required to expedite Flight Check
aircraft.

NOTE-
It is recognized that unexpected wind conditions, weather, or heavy
traffic flows may affect controller's ability to provide priority or special
handling at the specific time requested.

REFERENCE-
FAAO 7110.65, Flight Check Aircraft, Para 9-1-3.

f. Expedite movement of NIGHT WATCH aircraft when NAOC (pronounced
NA-YOCK) is indicated in the remarks section of the flight plan or in
air/ground communications.

NOTE-
The term "NAOC" will not be a part of the call sign but may be used when
the aircraft is airborne to indicate a request for special handling.

REFERENCE-
FAAO 7610.4, Applications, Para 12-1-1.

g. Provide expeditious handling for any civil or military aircraft using
the code name "FLYNET."

REFERENCE-
FAAO 7110.65, FLYNET, Para 9-3-6.
FAAO 7610.4, "FLYNET" Flights, Nuclear Emergency Teams, Para 12-4-1.

h. Provide expeditious handling of aircraft using the code name "Garden
Plot" only when CARF notifies you that such priority is authorized. Refer
any questions regarding flight procedures to CARF for resolution.

NOTE-
Garden Plot flights require priority movement and are coordinated by the
military with CARF. State authority will contact the Regional Administrator
to arrange for priority of National Guard troop movements within a
particular state.

i. Provide special handling for USAF aircraft engaged in aerial sampling
missions using the code name "SAMP."

REFERENCE-
FAAO 7110.65, SAMP, Para 9-3-15.
FAAO 7210.3, Atmosphere Sampling For Nuclear Contamination, Para 5-3-4.
FAAO 7610.4, Atmospheric Sampling For Nuclear Contamination, Para 12-4-3.

j. Provide maximum assistance to expedite the movement of interceptor
aircraft on active air defense missions until the unknown aircraft is
identified.

k. Expedite movement of Special Air Mission aircraft when SCOOT is
indicated in the remarks section of the flight plan or in air/ground
communications.

NOTE-
The term "SCOOT" will not be part of the call sign but may be used when
the aircraft is airborne to indicate a request for special handling.

REFERENCE-
FAAO 7110.65, Law Enforcement Operations by Civil and Military
Organizations, Para 9-3-10.
FAAO 7610.4, Applications, Para 12-7-1.

l. When requested, provide priority handling to TEAL and NOAA mission
aircraft.

NOTE-
Priority handling may be requested by the pilot, or via telephone from
CARCAH or the 53rd Weather Reconnaissance Squadron (53WRS) operations center
personnel, or in the remarks section of the flight plan.

REFERENCE-
FAAO 7110.65, Weather Reconnaissance Flights, Para 9-3-17.

m. IFR aircraft shall have priority over SVFR aircraft.

REFERENCE-
FAAO 7110.65, Chapter 7, Section 5, Special VFR (SVFR).

n. Providing priority and special handling to expedite the movement of
OPEN SKIES observation and demonstration flights.

NOTE-
An OPEN SKIES aircraft has priority over all "regular" air traffic.
"Regular" is defined as all aircraft traffic other than:
1. Emergencies.
2. Aircraft directly involved in presidential movement.
3. Forces or activities in actual combat.
4. Lifeguard, MED EVAC, AIR EVAC and active SAR missions.

REFERENCE-
FAAO 7110.65 OPEN SKIES Treaty Aircraft, Para 9-3-20.
FAAO 7210.3, OPEN SKIES Treaty Aircraft, Para 5-3-7.
Treaty on OPEN SKIES, Treaty Document, 102-37.

o. Aircraft operating under the North American Route Program (NRP) are not
subject to route limiting restrictions (e.g., published preferred IFR
routes, letter of agreement requirements, standard operating procedures).

REFERENCE-
FAAO 7110.65, En Route Data Entries, Para 2-3-2.
FAAO 7110.65, North American Route Program (NRP) Information, Para 2-2-15.
FAAO 7110.65, Route or Altitude Amendments, Para 4-2-5.
FAAO 7210.3, Chapter 17, Section 17, North American Route Program.

p. If able, provide priority handling to diverted flights. Priority
handling may be requested via use of "DVRSN" in the remarks section of the
flight plan or by the flight being placed on the Diversion Recovery Tool
(DRT).

REFERENCE-
FAAO 7210.3, Diversion Recovery, Para 17-4-6.

[tony]

>
>ATC services are provided on a first come, first served basis, with a few
>exceptions. Presidential aircraft are given priority over most other
>aircraft, but not all other aircraft. Top priority is given to aircraft in
>distress, and if it was deemed necessary for A1 to do a 360, A1 would be


I did hedge a little saying A1 wouldn't often be given a 360. I wasn't thinking
of an aircraft in trouble, thanks for giving a reasonable example.

[Robert M. Gary]

"Marty" > wrote in message >...
> "Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
> m...
> > They mentioned on the news that it was not really "Airforce 1" because
> > Bush did not fly out to California too.
> >
> >
>
> Robert,
>
> Thanks for the clarification. I didn't see that portion of the events myself
> but my Dad insisted they called it "AF1".
> I just said OK to avoid another senseless argument between us.
> ;-)

Its also little known that "Airfoce 1" is not really A plane. There
are a fleet of planes operated by the president's Airforce
transporation squadron. There are little jets for trips to the vinyard
and medium jets for medium trips to shorter runways. However, everyone
thinks of the 747 (of which there are actually 2). Airforce 1 does not
travel alone either. There are a fleet of C130's that carry things
like the motorcade (the president doesn't need to wait for a rental
car, he brings his bullet proof car with him.

-Robert

[Shiver Me Timbers]

> Airforce 1 does not travel alone either.

> There are a fleet of C130's that carry things
> like the motorcade

> he brings his bullet proof car with him.

Curious question to the group.

Anyone know how much it costs for all of this
infrastructure and support staff etc. to travel
from one location to another.

[Newps]

"Shiver Me Timbers" > wrote in message
...
>
> Anyone know how much it costs for all of this
> infrastructure and support staff etc. to travel
> from one location to another.

It is an immense amount of money. A couple of days before the President
arrives the support stuff comes in. You'll have cargo planes full of limos,
suburbans, Blackhawk helicopters, secret service agents, etc. When you see
it happen once from the inside like from an ATC facility it makes perfect
sense that the President wouldn't go to his daughters college graduation.
They would turn an event like that upside down.

[Shiver Me Timbers]

> Newps > wrote:

> It is an immense amount of money. A couple of days before the President
> arrives the support stuff comes in. You'll have cargo planes full of limos,
> suburbans, Blackhawk helicopters, secret service agents, etc.

Yes I can well imagine.

I would also imagine that only the most jaded would begrudge the cost
or the use by the president.

Up here in Canada every time the Prime Minister goes somewhere or
a government plane is used to transport a senior politician or a
Premier at the Provincial level there will be some news organization
using our freedom of information act to find out what the cost of the
flight was, and then squeeling like stuck pigs over that cost.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
om...
>
> Its also little known that "Airfoce 1" is not really A plane. There
> are a fleet of planes operated by the president's Airforce
> transporation squadron. There are little jets for trips to the vinyard
> and medium jets for medium trips to shorter runways. However, everyone
> thinks of the 747 (of which there are actually 2). Airforce 1 does not
> travel alone either. There are a fleet of C130's that carry things
> like the motorcade (the president doesn't need to wait for a rental
> car, he brings his bullet proof car with him.
>

The car travels by C-17.

[Robert M. Gary]

Shiver Me Timbers > wrote in message >...
> > Newps > wrote:
>
> > It is an immense amount of money. A couple of days before the President
> > arrives the support stuff comes in. You'll have cargo planes full of limos,
> > suburbans, Blackhawk helicopters, secret service agents, etc.
>
> Yes I can well imagine.
>
> I would also imagine that only the most jaded would begrudge the cost
> or the use by the president.
>
> Up here in Canada every time the Prime Minister goes somewhere or
> a government plane is used to transport a senior politician or a
> Premier at the Provincial level there will be some news organization
> using our freedom of information act to find out what the cost of the
> flight was, and then squeeling like stuck pigs over that cost.

We fixed that problem by running the cost through the Secret Service
and the Military. :)
In general, I think American's are proud when we see our President
show up somewhere in his giant 747 and group. Its like showing of a
really cool car. He feel proud. :)

-Robert

[Cub Driver]

>Anyone know how much it costs for all of this
>infrastructure and support staff etc. to travel
>from one location to another.

A lot, but it's really not quantifiable. The air force calls many such
flights as if they were training missions. They aren't, of course, but
if the president stayed home for his entire term, the crews would
still have to make training flights.

It's a very old custom. Franklin Roosevelt had a specially-built car
(and a bullet-proof train that he wouldn't let travel more than 30 mph
because it swayed too much at speed), and the car was sometimes
shipped ahead by the U.S. Navy. Presumably it was also send overland
by rail or truck.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org

[Cub Driver]

> A couple of days before the President
>arrives the support stuff comes in. You'll have cargo planes full of limos,
>suburbans, Blackhawk helicopters, secret service agents, etc.

Unless they use several airports, it's not quite that bad. I live
across the bay from the former Pease AFB, which both Bush I and Bush
II use(d) regularly because of the Kennebunk connection, plus of
course the New Hampshire primary. I've only ever seen Air Force One
and a couple of Marine helicopters. Pease gets very little traffic
these days, and I would notice a rush of cargo planes.

But I suppose it's possible they land at another civil or military
airport and the stuff moves overland (or flies, in the case of the
helos).

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
wrote:

> But I suppose it's possible they land at another civil or military
> airport and the stuff moves overland (or flies, in the case of the
> helos).

some of the support aircraft do land at other fields. KBED gets
some even when AF1 or AF2 don't land there.

--
Bob Noel

[Ash Wyllie]

Cub Driver opined

>>but my Dad insisted they called it "AF1".
>>I just said OK to avoid another senseless argument between us.

>I'm sure your dad was right, and that "they" -- the newscasters --
>called it Air Force One.

>The idea that a plane could have a different name, depending on the
>passenger, is not one that is easily grasped. It's like having an
>ocean liner that's called the QE II only when the queen is on board.

>It must be particularly stressful when Air Force One becomes Air Force
>Two.

You mean when George W. Bush is aboard?

Sorry, I couldn't help it.


-ash
Cthulhu for President!
Why vote for a lesser evil?

[Mark]

(Robert M. Gary) wrote in message >...
> "Marty" > wrote in message >...
> > "Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
> > m...
> > > They mentioned on the news that it was not really "Airforce 1" because
> > > Bush did not fly out to California too.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Robert,
> >
> > Thanks for the clarification. I didn't see that portion of the events myself
> > but my Dad insisted they called it "AF1".
> > I just said OK to avoid another senseless argument between us.
> > ;-)
>
> Its also little known that "Airfoce 1" is not really A plane. There
> are a fleet of planes operated by the president's Airforce
> transporation squadron. There are little jets for trips to the vinyard
> and medium jets for medium trips to shorter runways. However, everyone
> thinks of the 747 (of which there are actually 2). Airforce 1 does not
> travel alone either. There are a fleet of C130's that carry things
> like the motorcade (the president doesn't need to wait for a rental
> car, he brings his bullet proof car with him.
>
> -Robert

OK, Got a question.

If the President flys on an Air Force plane, it's called "Air Force
1". If he flys on a Marine Helicopter, it's "Marine 1". I assume
that a Navy or Army aircraft will be "Army 1" and "Navy 1".

Now, if for some reason he flew in my Cessna 172, what would I use as
a call sign? Since my plane is not owned by the military, would I use
a special call sign? I know the chances of the President flying with
me is *remote*, but I wonder what would be used in this case....

Any ideas?

[Bill Denton]

Not even worth contemplating...

There's no way on earth the Secret Service would let the President fly on
anything other than a military aircraft, if for no other reason than keeping
the communications links "connected".

"Mark" > wrote in message
om...
> (Robert M. Gary) wrote in message
>...
> > "Marty" > wrote in message
>...
> > > "Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
> > > m...
> > > > They mentioned on the news that it was not really "Airforce 1"
because
> > > > Bush did not fly out to California too.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Robert,
> > >
> > > Thanks for the clarification. I didn't see that portion of the events
myself
> > > but my Dad insisted they called it "AF1".
> > > I just said OK to avoid another senseless argument between us.
> > > ;-)
> >
> > Its also little known that "Airfoce 1" is not really A plane. There
> > are a fleet of planes operated by the president's Airforce
> > transporation squadron. There are little jets for trips to the vinyard
> > and medium jets for medium trips to shorter runways. However, everyone
> > thinks of the 747 (of which there are actually 2). Airforce 1 does not
> > travel alone either. There are a fleet of C130's that carry things
> > like the motorcade (the president doesn't need to wait for a rental
> > car, he brings his bullet proof car with him.
> >
> > -Robert
>
> OK, Got a question.
>
> If the President flys on an Air Force plane, it's called "Air Force
> 1". If he flys on a Marine Helicopter, it's "Marine 1". I assume
> that a Navy or Army aircraft will be "Army 1" and "Navy 1".
>
> Now, if for some reason he flew in my Cessna 172, what would I use as
> a call sign? Since my plane is not owned by the military, would I use
> a special call sign? I know the chances of the President flying with
> me is *remote*, but I wonder what would be used in this case....
>
> Any ideas?

[Jim Weir]

I can't speak to a President, but have flown a governor and a couple of
lieutenant governors in the Cessna. I believe that they use "California 1 (or
2)" for the state-owned aircraft when the gov is aboard, but for us, it was just
plain old "November Seven-Three Charlie Quebec".

It was kind of weird, though, to look over in the copilot seat and see a
governor with the map light on, at midnight, halfway between Grass Valley and
Sacramento, reading Homer...in Greek.

Jim



(Mark)
shared these priceless pearls of wisdom:

->Now, if for some reason he flew in my Cessna 172, what would I use as
->a call sign? Since my plane is not owned by the military, would I use
->a special call sign? I know the chances of the President flying with
->me is *remote*, but I wonder what would be used in this case....



Jim Weir (A&P/IA, CFI, & other good alphabet soup)
VP Eng RST Pres. Cyberchapter EAA Tech. Counselor
http://www.rst-engr.com

[Newps]

"Cub Driver" > wrote in message
...
>
> > A couple of days before the President
> >arrives the support stuff comes in. You'll have cargo planes full of
limos,
> >suburbans, Blackhawk helicopters, secret service agents, etc.
>
> Unless they use several airports, it's not quite that bad. I live
> across the bay from the former Pease AFB, which both Bush I and Bush
> II use(d) regularly because of the Kennebunk connection,

In that case some stuff is already there, lessening the crush of traffic.
Since I have been here at BIL Bush I, Clinton and W have been here. In each
case we get at least three military cargo planes. They fly in all the
limos, suburbans, Blackhawks, etc. Then you have the local guard units from
Great Falls that bring in their choppers. Secret Service agents appear out
of thin air. They hook up the phone line in the tower and we get to BS with
the low level secret service agent in the tower while the prez is in the
area.

[Newps]

"Mark" > wrote in message
om...


> Now, if for some reason he flew in my Cessna 172, what would I use as
> a call sign?

The President is always flown by a member of the military so your plane
would be Air Force 1 if flown by the Air Force, Navy 1 if flown by the Navy,
etc.



Since my plane is not owned by the military, would I use
> a special call sign? I know the chances of the President flying with
> me is *remote*,

Your chances are exactly zero. When I was in Grand Forks the secretary of
Transportation at the time, Sam Skinner, showed up to visit UND. He toured
the tower so we got to meet. Then he went up in one of UND's CAP 10
aerobatic aircraft. His callsign was Transport 1, same as the G IV he flew
in on.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Mark" > wrote in message
om...
>
> OK, Got a question.
>
> If the President flys on an Air Force plane, it's called "Air Force
> 1". If he flys on a Marine Helicopter, it's "Marine 1". I assume
> that a Navy or Army aircraft will be "Army 1" and "Navy 1".
>

Correct.


>
> Now, if for some reason he flew in my Cessna 172, what would I use as
> a call sign?
>

Executive One.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Bill Denton" > wrote in message
...
>
> Not even worth contemplating...
>
> There's no way on earth the Secret Service would let the President fly on
> anything other than a military aircraft, if for no other reason than
keeping
> the communications links "connected".
>

Nixon did it once.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Newps" > wrote in message
...
>
> The President is always flown by a member of the military so your plane
> would be Air Force 1 if flown by the Air Force, Navy 1 if flown by the
Navy,
> etc.
>

Nonsense. The callsign is determined by the aircraft, not the pilot. "Air
Force One" is used only by USAF aircraft. All civil aircraft use "Executive
One".

[Bill Denton]

Is their some particular reason why you consistently fail to put an adequate
amount of information in your posts?



"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "Bill Denton" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > Not even worth contemplating...
> >
> > There's no way on earth the Secret Service would let the President fly
on
> > anything other than a military aircraft, if for no other reason than
> keeping
> > the communications links "connected".
> >
>
> Nixon did it once.
>
>

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Bill Denton" > wrote in message
...
>
> Is their some particular reason why you consistently fail to put an
adequate
> amount of information in your posts?
>

What additional information would you like?

[Bill Denton]

I see this lack frequently in your posts, or I wouldn't mention it.

Remember the old journalist's mantra: Who, What, When, How, Were?

You only gave us "Nixon" and "non-military plane"...




"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "Bill Denton" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > Is their some particular reason why you consistently fail to put an
> adequate
> > amount of information in your posts?
> >
>
> What additional information would you like?
>
>

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Bill Denton" > wrote in message
...
>
> I see this lack frequently in your posts, or I wouldn't mention it.
>

I think the problem is on your end.


>
> Remember the old journalist's mantra: Who, What, When, How, Were?
>
> You only gave us "Nixon" and "non-military plane"...
>

Who: Nixon

What: Fly on something other than a military aircraft

When: During the Nixon administration

How: The same way other aircraft fly

Were: ?

[Cub Driver]

On 15 Jun 2004 07:48:04 -0700, (Mark) wrote:

> I know the chances of the President flying with
>me is *remote*, but I wonder what would be used in this case....

Civil One?

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org

[Cub Driver]

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 10:09:51 -0600, "Newps" >
wrote:

>Transportation at the time, Sam Skinner, showed up to visit UND. He toured
>the tower so we got to meet. Then he went up in one of UND's CAP 10
>aerobatic aircraft. His callsign was Transport 1,

It is touches like this that give many of us a low-grade, chronic,
enduring contempt for government and its people.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

The Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
The Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! weblog www.vivabush.org

[Bill Denton]

I guess it's safe to assume that you have no real interest in communicating,
and that you have no facts to back up your Nixon assertion.



"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "Bill Denton" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > I see this lack frequently in your posts, or I wouldn't mention it.
> >
>
> I think the problem is on your end.
>
>
> >
> > Remember the old journalist's mantra: Who, What, When, How, Were?
> >
> > You only gave us "Nixon" and "non-military plane"...
> >
>
> Who: Nixon
>
> What: Fly on something other than a military aircraft
>
> When: During the Nixon administration
>
> How: The same way other aircraft fly
>
> Were: ?
>
>
>

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Bill Denton" > wrote in message
...
>
> I guess it's safe to assume that you have no real interest in
communicating,
> and that you have no facts to back up your Nixon assertion.
>

I have my memory, I don't care if you don't believe me.

[Tom Sixkiller]

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "Bill Denton" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > I guess it's safe to assume that you have no real interest in
> communicating,
> > and that you have no facts to back up your Nixon assertion.

But he has consensus, Bill; he don't need no stinkin' facts.

>
> I have my memory, I don't care if you don't believe me.

Steven's memory is better than most peoples references.

[Bill Denton]

What consensus? Steven is the only person I have seen make this claim about
Nixon.

And, assuming this story is true, it is not a story at all. It is simply a
recitation of a (single) fact. Without the details of why Nixon rode in a
civilian aircraft while President it is a zero-interest story.

As far as memory goes, I did radio news during the entirety of Nixon's
Presidency, and my interest in aviation is life-long. Had Nixon taken the
alleged ride I probably would remember it.

Finally, I spent about 15 minutes on Google earlier this morning and
couldn't find any reference to the flight.

I was not originally doubting Steven's veracity; I've seen more than one of
his cryptic posts.

But given a lack of supporting information, I just have to discard his
assertion...


"Tom Sixkiller" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> >
> > "Bill Denton" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > I guess it's safe to assume that you have no real interest in
> > communicating,
> > > and that you have no facts to back up your Nixon assertion.
>
> But he has consensus, Bill; he don't need no stinkin' facts.
>
> >
> > I have my memory, I don't care if you don't believe me.
>
> Steven's memory is better than most peoples references.
>
>

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Bill Denton" > wrote in message
...
>
> What consensus? Steven is the only person I have seen make this claim
about
> Nixon.
>
> And, assuming this story is true, it is not a story at all. It is simply a
> recitation of a (single) fact. Without the details of why Nixon rode in a
> civilian aircraft while President it is a zero-interest story.
>
> As far as memory goes, I did radio news during the entirety of Nixon's
> Presidency, and my interest in aviation is life-long. Had Nixon taken the
> alleged ride I probably would remember it.
>
> Finally, I spent about 15 minutes on Google earlier this morning and
> couldn't find any reference to the flight.
>
> I was not originally doubting Steven's veracity; I've seen more than one
of
> his cryptic posts.
>
> But given a lack of supporting information, I just have to discard his
> assertion...
>

Perhaps you'd have better success if you didn't go out of your way to be a
dickhead.

President Nixon once flew aboard a civil airliner from DC to California when
the oil crunch first hit. It was to show sympathy with the common folk. It
was well-covered by the media . I guess you're not much of a newsman.

[Flyin'[email protected]]

>
> President Nixon once flew aboard a civil airliner from DC to California
> when the oil crunch first hit. It was to show sympathy with the common
> folk. It was well-covered by the media . I guess you're not much of a
> newsman.

It was a flight on American Airlines as a PR stunt. That is all I could
dig up.

--
Mike Flyin'8

[Flyin'[email protected]]

wrote:
> >
> > President Nixon once flew aboard a civil airliner from DC to California
> > when the oil crunch first hit. It was to show sympathy with the common
> > folk. It was well-covered by the media . I guess you're not much of a
> > newsman.
>
> It was a flight on American Airlines as a PR stunt. That is all I could
> dig up.

And... AF1 flew directly behind the aircraft for the entire trip. I did
see the call sign for that flight, but I can not remember what it said.

--
Mike Flyin'8

[Bill Denton]

Why didn't you simply include that information in your originals post? None
of this would have become an issue.




"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "Bill Denton" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > What consensus? Steven is the only person I have seen make this claim
> about
> > Nixon.
> >
> > And, assuming this story is true, it is not a story at all. It is simply
a
> > recitation of a (single) fact. Without the details of why Nixon rode in
a
> > civilian aircraft while President it is a zero-interest story.
> >
> > As far as memory goes, I did radio news during the entirety of Nixon's
> > Presidency, and my interest in aviation is life-long. Had Nixon taken
the
> > alleged ride I probably would remember it.
> >
> > Finally, I spent about 15 minutes on Google earlier this morning and
> > couldn't find any reference to the flight.
> >
> > I was not originally doubting Steven's veracity; I've seen more than one
> of
> > his cryptic posts.
> >
> > But given a lack of supporting information, I just have to discard his
> > assertion...
> >
>
> Perhaps you'd have better success if you didn't go out of your way to be a
> dickhead.
>
> President Nixon once flew aboard a civil airliner from DC to California
when
> the oil crunch first hit. It was to show sympathy with the common folk.
It
> was well-covered by the media . I guess you're not much of a newsman.
>
>

[Bill Denton]

I'm a damn good newsman, but I do have a sometimes fallible memory.


> wrote in message
...
> >
> > President Nixon once flew aboard a civil airliner from DC to California
> > when the oil crunch first hit. It was to show sympathy with the common
> > folk. It was well-covered by the media . I guess you're not much of a
> > newsman.
>
> It was a flight on American Airlines as a PR stunt. That is all I could
> dig up.
>
> --
> Mike Flyin'8

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Bill Denton" > wrote in message
...
>
> Why didn't you simply include that information in your originals post?
None
> of this would have become an issue.
>

I posted a simple fact. Anyone is free to ask for more information, of
course. But rather than simply asking for more information, you chose to
take an adversarial route. This is an "issue" solely because you sought to
make an issue of it.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Bill Denton" > wrote in message
...
>
> I'm a damn good newsman, but I do have a sometimes fallible memory.
>

"Damn good newsman". That could be interpreted several ways today. One
interpretation would be akin to "damn good con man".