Steep turns without yoke?

[Roger Long]

A friend of mine's IFR instructor showed him something I've never heard of.
He rolled in 2 - 3 turns of nose up trim on our 172, pushed on a rudder
pedal, and went into a nice level steep turn without touching the yoke. I'm
not sure if this is practice for proper turn entry or a way of entering an
emergency turn partial panel without the danger of over banking.

Can anyone shed further light on this maneuver?

--
Roger Long

[Bob Gardner]

My only problem with it is that when you have to do two steep turns
back-to-back you must be ready with lots of forward pressure as you roll
through wings-level...if you are not anticipating it you can gain a couple
of hundred feet in a heartbeat.

Bob Gardner

"Roger Long" > wrote in message
...
> A friend of mine's IFR instructor showed him something I've never heard
of.
> He rolled in 2 - 3 turns of nose up trim on our 172, pushed on a rudder
> pedal, and went into a nice level steep turn without touching the yoke.
I'm
> not sure if this is practice for proper turn entry or a way of entering an
> emergency turn partial panel without the danger of over banking.
>
> Can anyone shed further light on this maneuver?
>
> --
> Roger Long
>
>

[pilot]

Pretty easy to do with a little practice... :) all about rudder contro
and knowing how to trim a plan

-
pilo

http://www.pilotboard.com I love this place
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[Bob Gardner]

Didn't say it was hard, just that it should be anticipated.

Bob Gardner

"pilot" > wrote in message
...
>
> Pretty easy to do with a little practice... :) all about rudder control
> and knowing how to trim a plane
>
>
> --
> pilot
>
> http://www.pilotboard.com I love this place!
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[john smith]

pilot wrote:
> Pretty easy to do with a little practice... :) all about rudder control
> and knowing how to trim a plane

Electric trim would simplify the process.

[Dave S]

Steep turns and partial panel are a bad combination. I would consider
this a demonstration of what you can do with rudder and trim, and an
example of skill at controlling the airplane.

In smooth air, VFR, without an autopilot, I will sometimes fly the plane
with nudges of trim, nudges or rudder and sometimes lean forward and
back to make minor changes.. But I havent tried steep turns like this yet.

Dave

Roger Long wrote:

> A friend of mine's IFR instructor showed him something I've never heard of.
> He rolled in 2 - 3 turns of nose up trim on our 172, pushed on a rudder
> pedal, and went into a nice level steep turn without touching the yoke. I'm
> not sure if this is practice for proper turn entry or a way of entering an
> emergency turn partial panel without the danger of over banking.
>
> Can anyone shed further light on this maneuver?
>

[Darrell]

Couldn't happen that way. If he rolled in the nose up trim BEFORE he rolled
into the turn using rudder it would have pitched up immediately. But if he
rolled in the nose up trim WHILE the aircraft was entering its bank and
coordinated it perfectly he could do it. But I doubt anyone's perfect and
the whole thing sounds suspect. And no, it's not proper turn entry. But
as a demonstration of trim rather than up elevator to increase back pressure
in a steep turn that is interesting. Using rudder to enter the bank is a
good demonstration, also. Steep turns in most aircraft, however, are
performed not changing elevator/stabilizer trim from the level flight
setting. And rolls into bank are coordinated using aileron/spoiler with
appropriate rudder.
--

B-58 Hustler History: http://members.cox.net/dschmidt1/
-

"Roger Long" > wrote in message
...
> A friend of mine's IFR instructor showed him something I've never heard
of.
> He rolled in 2 - 3 turns of nose up trim on our 172, pushed on a rudder
> pedal, and went into a nice level steep turn without touching the yoke.
I'm
> not sure if this is practice for proper turn entry or a way of entering an
> emergency turn partial panel without the danger of over banking.
>
> Can anyone shed further light on this maneuver?
>
> --
> Roger Long
>
>

[Dudley Henriques]

"Roger Long" > wrote in message
...
> A friend of mine's IFR instructor showed him something I've never
heard of.
> He rolled in 2 - 3 turns of nose up trim on our 172, pushed on a
rudder
> pedal, and went into a nice level steep turn without touching the
yoke. I'm
> not sure if this is practice for proper turn entry or a way of
entering an
> emergency turn partial panel without the danger of over banking.
>
> Can anyone shed further light on this maneuver?
>
> --
> Roger Long


Roger;

If he did this EXACTLY as you indicated, I make it a climbing left turn.
Rolling in the trim even leading the rudder a little bit would cause a
positive pitch immediately, then as the rudder was introduced, it would
have to be very gentle to negate any adverse yaw. It would yaw into the
left side ok if done this way, but it looks like the trim would have
become the dominant factor by that time and a climbing left turn would
be the result.
These "maneuvers" were popular back in the early days of private pilot
instrument introduction. There were several "save your life" maneuvers
that were bantered around at that time; supposedly to save your butt if
you got caught over the top, or inadvertently flew yourself into some
bad weather. Frankly, I didn't like any of it then, and I still wouldn't
advocate using it.
This little ditty using the trim would be VERY difficult to get done in
actual instrument conditions; this of course depending on the airplane
being used. But my money would go on the trim and rudder use not being
applied in the exact sequence required to produce a stable level turn.
I'd bet the house on the trim being early and raising the nose on
someone trying this in actual conditions, then the rudder yawing into a
left climbing turn, which could REALLY get somebody who 1. didn't know
enough not to be there to begin with....and 2. not know enough to make a
simple normal instrument coordinated turn....into REAL trouble FAST!!!!
The real answer to these little catch all ditties is for pilots to learn
right from the gitgo, the right way to do things normally, and be able
to control their airplane without all these "gadget turns"...then, have
enough common sense to stay out of these bad weather situations where
they need to use that control. :-))
Dudley

[BTIZ]

I've done it with a Piper 180... it's no big deal really.. just be ready for
the "Bump", when you come around the 360 and hit your own prop wash..
BT

"Roger Long" > wrote in message
...
> A friend of mine's IFR instructor showed him something I've never heard
of.
> He rolled in 2 - 3 turns of nose up trim on our 172, pushed on a rudder
> pedal, and went into a nice level steep turn without touching the yoke.
I'm
> not sure if this is practice for proper turn entry or a way of entering an
> emergency turn partial panel without the danger of over banking.
>
> Can anyone shed further light on this maneuver?
>
> --
> Roger Long
>
>

[Jack]

BTIZ wrote:

> I've done it with a Piper 180... it's no big deal really.. just be ready for
> the "Bump", when you come around the 360 and hit your own prop wash.

Which probably means you have descended slightly rather than making a
perfectly level turn, but it's good enough for .gov work.


Jack

[BTIZ]

not enough to show on the altimeter or the VSI..
BT

"Jack" > wrote in message
...
> BTIZ wrote:
>
> > I've done it with a Piper 180... it's no big deal really.. just be ready
for
> > the "Bump", when you come around the 360 and hit your own prop wash.
>
> Which probably means you have descended slightly rather than making a
> perfectly level turn, but it's good enough for .gov work.
>
>
> Jack