Just another nice day over the Mojave

[Casey Wilson]

WARNING! This post does not contain any political diatribe, personal
castigations, or off-topics musings.

The weather over the north end of California's share of the Mojave
Desert was once again in the severe clear category. A Mooney departed to the
south from Inyokern Airport (IYK) just as I pulled through the security gate
by the hangars.
Gentle breezes swung the weathervane to and fro. If there were any
thermals burping off the pavement, I couldn't tell. The ridgeline of the
Sierra was stark against the blue sky blotted by vague hints of cloud vapor
30 or 40 miles to the north. A high pressure mass had settled in and the
atmosphere was flat and stable.
I preflighted the rental C-150G in its hangar and tucked my stuff into
little nooks and crannies. The owner had recently clamped a Garmin-196 to
the yoke and I spent some time poking buttons on a totally unfamiliar
gadget. Maybe 45 minutes after I pulled through the gate, I pulled on the
starter handle -- nothing happened. Ah, yes, master switch ON. The prop
turned twice as many rotations as I remembered it usually did. Ah, yes, mag
switch ON. Three blades and the little engine that can, was.
The devil is in the details. I sat there and let the Hobbs spin while I
reread the checklist, again. I know I had read it before I tried the first
start. Hrumph!
On my side of the hold short line, I did the pre-takeoff list twice just
to punish myself. I did a traffic call for takeoff, ess-turned and checked
the pattern for traffic, rolled out to the center line and pushed the
throttle to the firewall.
I need to back up and mention that I hadn't flown the 150 for several
months. I'd been flying 172SPs out of the Edward AFB Aeroclub. I was acutely
aware of the confines of the cabin already. What I totally forgot was the
huge difference between the 180hp, fuel injected, psuedo rocket engines in
the 172SP and the little bitty thing on the front of the 150G that was
struggling to drag me forward.
I'd done a density altitude calc and knew about where I was supposed to
be airborne before the intersection of runway 02-20. Airspeed indicator
crept up to 40MPH(not knots here), then 45. At the intersection I'd have
another 7,000 feet of runway in front of me. There's 50, gentle tug back on
the yoke and the nose raised a few inches. At 55, the airplane flew away
from the ground. Waiting, waiting, still flying, I crossed the intersection
at 60MPH and 100 feet up. I need to accelerate to at least 70 to start a
climb.
At 200 feet, I was at 75MPH and climbing at about 200 FPM, then 300.
Beyond the runnway and 500 feet up, I did a 90left 45right to clear the
pattern and made a sweeping climbing turn to head east.
Joshua Approach cleared me unrestricted through R-2506, the low approach
corridor leading to the Naval Air Warfare Center at China Lake and gave me a
5000 or above for the main SUA of R-2505. I wanted lower -- 5K is about
double the altitude of my house which is about 1/2 miles inside the
boundary. I'd wanted to so some pictures. Not approved. During the week, I
could probably have talked China Control (they own the airspace during
normal working hours) into letting me go lower.
I headed back west and then south. No place to go in particular. Just
remember how to fly the 150. Flight Following reports from Joshua were about
20 minutes apart and only one dealt with 33X (me), so I turned on the
Garmin-196 to play with it.
I had to change from my sunglasses to regular glasses to read the
display. I'd read there is some control over backlighting and contrast, but
I didn't have the book with me and couldn't find it intuitively.
Basic GPS operation was, on the other hand, pretty intuitive to me. The last
person that flew had it set for up is north. I prefer the little plane
thingy to point up and have the track line up with it. That I couldn't
intuit, either.
I played with the psuedo-panel page for a while. I suppose if you had a
panel failure on the airplane, you could use that feature, but I didn't get
comfortable with the update lag in the brief time I flew with it.
CalCity airport was busy with meat-missles so I stayed well to the west.
I've proably offended a number of the residents of this newsgroup with that.
So flame me. Skydiving is not on my list of things to do, ever.
With the exception of five minutes crossing over Red Rock Canyon both
ways, the flight was delightfully smooth. Over the canyon the air was four
stages below mild turbulence -- maybe a one on the ten-scale. According to
the Garmin-196, I had no crosswind drift with the HI and the GPS heading on
the same number.
On the way home I had not heard a single peep on 122.8 of any traffic at
IYK so I decided to try something I'd never done before. There in front of
me, ten miles away, I was lined up exactly with runway 02. I keyed the mike
and announced my intentions to do a straight-in approach.
Maybe I'll try it again someday -- after I look at the geometry, and
what altitudes you should have at what distances. But this time I was way
too high and way too fast. When It was apparent I could NOT make that
landing, I sidestepped into a right downwind for 20 at pattern altitude and
made an unevenful landing.
It may have been easier if the two-box VASI had been in operation, but
all I had was my personal visual perception and it had no history.
Oh, yeah, I did go through the landing check list and did use the carb
heat.
It was a good day to fly over the Mojave, this day.

Casey Wilson
Freelance Writer and Photographer

[Larry Dighera]

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 01:23:55 GMT, "Casey Wilson" >
wrote in <La0ad.387$YU4.296@trnddc06>::

>I keyed the mike
>and announced my intentions to do a straight-in approach.
> Maybe I'll try it again someday -- after I look at the geometry, and
>what altitudes you should have at what distances. But this time I was way
>too high and way too fast.

Thanks for the enjoyable read.

I'm sure you're aware of it, but at the risk of preaching, I'll
mention it anyway.

To ascertain whether you're approach to landing is going to be short
or long:

1. Pick a bug or other mark on the windscreen

2. Sight through the mark to the runway threshold

3. If the threshold is moving downward relative to the mark,
your going to overshoot; threshold moving upward relative to
the threshold indicates your going to be short.

Have you ever explored the remains of General Patton's WW-II Desert
Training Center in the Mojave?

[Larry Dighera]

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 01:23:55 GMT, "Casey Wilson" >
wrote in <La0ad.387$YU4.296@trnddc06>::

>I keyed the mike
>and announced my intentions to do a straight-in approach.
> Maybe I'll try it again someday -- after I look at the geometry, and
>what altitudes you should have at what distances. But this time I was way
>too high and way too fast.

Thanks for the enjoyable read.

I'm sure you're aware of it, but at the risk of preaching, I'll
mention it anyway.

To ascertain whether you're approach to landing is going to be short
or long:

1. Pick a bug or other mark on the windscreen

2. Sight through the mark to the runway threshold

3. If the threshold is moving downward relative to the mark,
your going to overshoot; threshold moving upward relative to
the threshold indicates your going to be short.

Have you ever explored the remains of General Patton's WW-II Desert
Training Center in the Mojave?

[Casey Wilson]

<< SNIP! >>

> 3. If the threshold is moving downward relative to the mark,
> your going to overshoot; threshold moving upward relative to
> the threshold indicates your going to be short.
>
> Have you ever explored the remains of General Patton's WW-II Desert
> Training Center in the Mojave?

Thanks, Larry. I pretty much have that under control. What happened in
this case was I kept motoring in toward the airport at what I consider a
comfortable altitude AGL. You know, high enough to have time to do the right
things if the engine went sour, etc. By the time I decided to slow down,
drop some flaps, and establish a glide slope I was in way too close, too
high, and too fast. Like I said, if the VASI had been up, I could have cued
off that.

Patton is one of my WWII heros. Yep, I've been out there a few times.
It's one of the places to take relatives who come to visit.
For me, it's easy to close my eyes and hear the rumble, creaking, and
groaning of the tanks churning over the terrain, and hear the gunfire from
machine guns and cannon. Sometimes even hear Patton growling at his junior
officers. But , what the heck..., I've got an active imagination..., even if
the ghosts are real.

Casey

[Casey Wilson]

<< SNIP! >>

> 3. If the threshold is moving downward relative to the mark,
> your going to overshoot; threshold moving upward relative to
> the threshold indicates your going to be short.
>
> Have you ever explored the remains of General Patton's WW-II Desert
> Training Center in the Mojave?

Thanks, Larry. I pretty much have that under control. What happened in
this case was I kept motoring in toward the airport at what I consider a
comfortable altitude AGL. You know, high enough to have time to do the right
things if the engine went sour, etc. By the time I decided to slow down,
drop some flaps, and establish a glide slope I was in way too close, too
high, and too fast. Like I said, if the VASI had been up, I could have cued
off that.

Patton is one of my WWII heros. Yep, I've been out there a few times.
It's one of the places to take relatives who come to visit.
For me, it's easy to close my eyes and hear the rumble, creaking, and
groaning of the tanks churning over the terrain, and hear the gunfire from
machine guns and cannon. Sometimes even hear Patton growling at his junior
officers. But , what the heck..., I've got an active imagination..., even if
the ghosts are real.

Casey

[Jack Allison]

Casey Wilson wrote:
> WARNING! This post does not contain any political diatribe, personal
> castigations, or off-topics musings.

Ah, a refreshing change. :-)

Nice Post Casey, enjoyed it. Wish I could post something about flying
up here in the central valley...but...I haven't been in the air in a
month or so. Tried to fly down to the San Jose area last
weekend...but...at the "Clear!" then turn ignition key portion of the
checklist, the engine wouldn't turn over. So, I opted for the cheaper
and longer method...three hour drive.

> What I totally forgot was the
> huge difference between the 180hp, fuel injected, psuedo rocket engines in
> the 172SP and the little bitty thing on the front of the 150G that was
> struggling to drag me forward.

LOL...I remember my checkout in a 150 after flying my usual approx. 200
hp 172 (180 HP Lycoming with Powerflow exhaust). Rotate...barely have
the feeling that the distance between the ground and the airplane is
increasing. The best line from my CFI at that point: "Did I mention
this plane is cheap?"


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL, IA Student

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[Jack Allison]

Casey Wilson wrote:
> WARNING! This post does not contain any political diatribe, personal
> castigations, or off-topics musings.

Ah, a refreshing change. :-)

Nice Post Casey, enjoyed it. Wish I could post something about flying
up here in the central valley...but...I haven't been in the air in a
month or so. Tried to fly down to the San Jose area last
weekend...but...at the "Clear!" then turn ignition key portion of the
checklist, the engine wouldn't turn over. So, I opted for the cheaper
and longer method...three hour drive.

> What I totally forgot was the
> huge difference between the 180hp, fuel injected, psuedo rocket engines in
> the 172SP and the little bitty thing on the front of the 150G that was
> struggling to drag me forward.

LOL...I remember my checkout in a 150 after flying my usual approx. 200
hp 172 (180 HP Lycoming with Powerflow exhaust). Rotate...barely have
the feeling that the distance between the ground and the airplane is
increasing. The best line from my CFI at that point: "Did I mention
this plane is cheap?"


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL, IA Student

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[Jay Beckman]

"Jack Allison" > wrote in message
...
>
> Nice Post Casey, enjoyed it. Wish I could post something about flying up
> here in the central valley...but...I haven't been in the air in a month or
> so. Tried to fly down to the San Jose area last weekend...but...at the
> "Clear!" then turn ignition key portion of the checklist, the engine
> wouldn't turn over. So, I opted for the cheaper and longer method...three
> hour drive.
>
>> What I totally forgot was the
>> huge difference between the 180hp, fuel injected, psuedo rocket engines
>> in
>> the 172SP and the little bitty thing on the front of the 150G that was
>> struggling to drag me forward.
>
> LOL...I remember my checkout in a 150 after flying my usual approx. 200 hp
> 172 (180 HP Lycoming with Powerflow exhaust). Rotate...barely have the
> feeling that the distance between the ground and the airplane is
> increasing. The best line from my CFI at that point: "Did I mention this
> plane is cheap?"
>
>
> --
> Jack Allison
> PP-ASEL, IA Student


Interesting that you mention going from an SP to a 150.

Now that the weather is beginning to "cool off" here in the Phoenix area,
I'm thinking that I should go get checked out in the 150 for $68 hamburgers
instead of the $100 type.

I'm pretty sure both the 150s at my school (or is that "former school?") are
of the "Sparrow Hawk" variety.

Jay Beckman
Chandler, AZ
PP-ASEL

[Jay Beckman]

"Jack Allison" > wrote in message
...
>
> Nice Post Casey, enjoyed it. Wish I could post something about flying up
> here in the central valley...but...I haven't been in the air in a month or
> so. Tried to fly down to the San Jose area last weekend...but...at the
> "Clear!" then turn ignition key portion of the checklist, the engine
> wouldn't turn over. So, I opted for the cheaper and longer method...three
> hour drive.
>
>> What I totally forgot was the
>> huge difference between the 180hp, fuel injected, psuedo rocket engines
>> in
>> the 172SP and the little bitty thing on the front of the 150G that was
>> struggling to drag me forward.
>
> LOL...I remember my checkout in a 150 after flying my usual approx. 200 hp
> 172 (180 HP Lycoming with Powerflow exhaust). Rotate...barely have the
> feeling that the distance between the ground and the airplane is
> increasing. The best line from my CFI at that point: "Did I mention this
> plane is cheap?"
>
>
> --
> Jack Allison
> PP-ASEL, IA Student


Interesting that you mention going from an SP to a 150.

Now that the weather is beginning to "cool off" here in the Phoenix area,
I'm thinking that I should go get checked out in the 150 for $68 hamburgers
instead of the $100 type.

I'm pretty sure both the 150s at my school (or is that "former school?") are
of the "Sparrow Hawk" variety.

Jay Beckman
Chandler, AZ
PP-ASEL

[Eric Fletcher S.O.C.]

On 10/9/04 6:39 PM, in article ,
"Larry Dighera" > wrote:

> Have you ever explored the remains of General Patton's WW-II Desert
> Training Center in the Mojave?


Where might that be and what is their to see there?


Thanks



Eric Fletcher

[Eric Fletcher S.O.C.]

On 10/9/04 6:39 PM, in article ,
"Larry Dighera" > wrote:

> Have you ever explored the remains of General Patton's WW-II Desert
> Training Center in the Mojave?


Where might that be and what is their to see there?


Thanks



Eric Fletcher

[Larry Dighera]

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 06:40:14 GMT, "Eric Fletcher S.O.C."
> wrote in >::

>On 10/9/04 6:39 PM, in article ,
>"Larry Dighera" > wrote:
>
>> Have you ever explored the remains of General Patton's WW-II Desert
>> Training Center in the Mojave?
>
>
>Where might that be and what is their to see there?
>

The DTC was created in April 1942 shortly after the seven simultaneous
Japanese attacks against Pearl Harbor, Malaya, Hong Kong, Guam,
Philippines, Wake Island, and Midway Island. This is where the first
US troops to fight in WW-II were trained to invade North Africa to
prevent Rommel from reaching the oilfields of Arabia. It covered the
western desert from Yuma to Searchlight and Pomona to Prescott, 12
million acres in all. In the desert climate the evidence of the
divisional campsites still remains today.

Here's a link with pictures of the DTC today, and a Sky Trail (similar
to a nature trail) that the Bureau of Land Management is creating for
GA pilots:
http://home.worldnet.att.net/~SkyTrail/dtc/html/dtcskytrail_disclaimer.htm
.. The username is: dtc, and the password is: blm. Click 'Pilots
Guide' on the right of the banner to see the sky trail. There is also
information here: http://www.pilotgetaways.com/skytours/index.html

The DTC Sky Trail adds interest and education on the flight from Los
Angeles to Las Vegas/Laughlin.

I'd like to get the BLM to create a similar sky trail over the
intaglios along the Colorado River basin. But that project will have
to wait for motivated volunteers; I just don't have any more time to
devote to these projects.

The sky trail concept is well suited to very large surface features
that can only be appreciated from an aerial vantage point. The
California State Department of Parks established one over Anza Borrego
many years ago (the first and only in the US to my knowledge). I
think GA and the American public would benefit greatly if sky trail
creation were continued throughout the nation. But it takes time. I
originally conceived of the DTC Sky Trail in 1998, and it's still
grinding through the bureaucracy today...

[Larry Dighera]

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 06:40:14 GMT, "Eric Fletcher S.O.C."
> wrote in >::

>On 10/9/04 6:39 PM, in article ,
>"Larry Dighera" > wrote:
>
>> Have you ever explored the remains of General Patton's WW-II Desert
>> Training Center in the Mojave?
>
>
>Where might that be and what is their to see there?
>

The DTC was created in April 1942 shortly after the seven simultaneous
Japanese attacks against Pearl Harbor, Malaya, Hong Kong, Guam,
Philippines, Wake Island, and Midway Island. This is where the first
US troops to fight in WW-II were trained to invade North Africa to
prevent Rommel from reaching the oilfields of Arabia. It covered the
western desert from Yuma to Searchlight and Pomona to Prescott, 12
million acres in all. In the desert climate the evidence of the
divisional campsites still remains today.

Here's a link with pictures of the DTC today, and a Sky Trail (similar
to a nature trail) that the Bureau of Land Management is creating for
GA pilots:
http://home.worldnet.att.net/~SkyTrail/dtc/html/dtcskytrail_disclaimer.htm
.. The username is: dtc, and the password is: blm. Click 'Pilots
Guide' on the right of the banner to see the sky trail. There is also
information here: http://www.pilotgetaways.com/skytours/index.html

The DTC Sky Trail adds interest and education on the flight from Los
Angeles to Las Vegas/Laughlin.

I'd like to get the BLM to create a similar sky trail over the
intaglios along the Colorado River basin. But that project will have
to wait for motivated volunteers; I just don't have any more time to
devote to these projects.

The sky trail concept is well suited to very large surface features
that can only be appreciated from an aerial vantage point. The
California State Department of Parks established one over Anza Borrego
many years ago (the first and only in the US to my knowledge). I
think GA and the American public would benefit greatly if sky trail
creation were continued throughout the nation. But it takes time. I
originally conceived of the DTC Sky Trail in 1998, and it's still
grinding through the bureaucracy today...

[Casey Wilson]

"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 06:40:14 GMT, "Eric Fletcher S.O.C."
> > wrote in >::
>
> >On 10/9/04 6:39 PM, in article
,
> >"Larry Dighera" > wrote:
> >
> >> Have you ever explored the remains of General Patton's WW-II Desert
> >> Training Center in the Mojave?
> >
> >
> >Where might that be and what is their to see there?
> >
>
> The DTC was created in April 1942 shortly after the seven simultaneous
> Japanese attacks against Pearl Harbor, Malaya, Hong Kong, Guam,
> Philippines, Wake Island, and Midway Island. This is where the first
> US troops to fight in WW-II were trained to invade North Africa to
> prevent Rommel from reaching the oilfields of Arabia. It covered the
> western desert from Yuma to Searchlight and Pomona to Prescott, 12
> million acres in all. In the desert climate the evidence of the
> divisional campsites still remains today.
>
> Here's a link with pictures of the DTC today, and a Sky Trail (similar
> to a nature trail) that the Bureau of Land Management is creating for
> GA pilots:
> http://home.worldnet.att.net/~SkyTrail/dtc/html/dtcskytrail_disclaimer.htm
> . The username is: dtc, and the password is: blm. Click 'Pilots
> Guide' on the right of the banner to see the sky trail. There is also
> information here: http://www.pilotgetaways.com/skytours/index.html
>

Holy Cow, Larry!! I've landed at Chiriaco Summit (L77) a few times and
flown over some of the DTC. I knew it was extensive, but I didn't know
anything about the Sky Trail scheme. I'll have to plan the whole shebang
next time I head for Bullhead City.
Some words of caution worth reiterating for those who haven't flown over
the desert. The first two are Density Altitude. Don't expect typical
performance on a warm day. Like the narrative said, it does get bumpy. I've
never experienced moderate turbulence along that route, but sometimes
passengers react poorly to constant light bumps. When that happens, I
usually climb up a couple thousand feet and it is generally much smoother.
And drink lots of water, the air out here is very dry all year long. Well,
except near the river where the humidity can stay over the 90% mark at
midnight.
Great information, Larry. What can the GA community do to help push the
Sky Trail scheme along? Seems I remember someone plotting the Chisolm and
Oregon Trails not long ago.

How about starting a new thread on that subject line.

Casey

[Casey Wilson]

"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 06:40:14 GMT, "Eric Fletcher S.O.C."
> > wrote in >::
>
> >On 10/9/04 6:39 PM, in article
,
> >"Larry Dighera" > wrote:
> >
> >> Have you ever explored the remains of General Patton's WW-II Desert
> >> Training Center in the Mojave?
> >
> >
> >Where might that be and what is their to see there?
> >
>
> The DTC was created in April 1942 shortly after the seven simultaneous
> Japanese attacks against Pearl Harbor, Malaya, Hong Kong, Guam,
> Philippines, Wake Island, and Midway Island. This is where the first
> US troops to fight in WW-II were trained to invade North Africa to
> prevent Rommel from reaching the oilfields of Arabia. It covered the
> western desert from Yuma to Searchlight and Pomona to Prescott, 12
> million acres in all. In the desert climate the evidence of the
> divisional campsites still remains today.
>
> Here's a link with pictures of the DTC today, and a Sky Trail (similar
> to a nature trail) that the Bureau of Land Management is creating for
> GA pilots:
> http://home.worldnet.att.net/~SkyTrail/dtc/html/dtcskytrail_disclaimer.htm
> . The username is: dtc, and the password is: blm. Click 'Pilots
> Guide' on the right of the banner to see the sky trail. There is also
> information here: http://www.pilotgetaways.com/skytours/index.html
>

Holy Cow, Larry!! I've landed at Chiriaco Summit (L77) a few times and
flown over some of the DTC. I knew it was extensive, but I didn't know
anything about the Sky Trail scheme. I'll have to plan the whole shebang
next time I head for Bullhead City.
Some words of caution worth reiterating for those who haven't flown over
the desert. The first two are Density Altitude. Don't expect typical
performance on a warm day. Like the narrative said, it does get bumpy. I've
never experienced moderate turbulence along that route, but sometimes
passengers react poorly to constant light bumps. When that happens, I
usually climb up a couple thousand feet and it is generally much smoother.
And drink lots of water, the air out here is very dry all year long. Well,
except near the river where the humidity can stay over the 90% mark at
midnight.
Great information, Larry. What can the GA community do to help push the
Sky Trail scheme along? Seems I remember someone plotting the Chisolm and
Oregon Trails not long ago.

How about starting a new thread on that subject line.

Casey

[Jack Allison]

Jay Beckman wrote:

> Interesting that you mention going from an SP to a 150.
Yep, I pretty much got checked out in the 152 so that I'd have something
else to fly as a backup. It turned out to help me greatly one day when
I had to fly to my brother's FBO to get checked out in the SP. Needless
to say, the flight back home in the 152 was a let down...but...it *was*
more fun than driving

>
> Now that the weather is beginning to "cool off" here in the Phoenix area,
> I'm thinking that I should go get checked out in the 150 for $68 hamburgers
> instead of the $100 type.
Repeat after me: "It's cheaper than a 172, it's cheaper than a 172,
it's...".

First impression when I started the 152: "Hey, that does sound like a
big fan". :-)


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL, IA Student

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[Jack Allison]

Jay Beckman wrote:

> Interesting that you mention going from an SP to a 150.
Yep, I pretty much got checked out in the 152 so that I'd have something
else to fly as a backup. It turned out to help me greatly one day when
I had to fly to my brother's FBO to get checked out in the SP. Needless
to say, the flight back home in the 152 was a let down...but...it *was*
more fun than driving

>
> Now that the weather is beginning to "cool off" here in the Phoenix area,
> I'm thinking that I should go get checked out in the 150 for $68 hamburgers
> instead of the $100 type.
Repeat after me: "It's cheaper than a 172, it's cheaper than a 172,
it's...".

First impression when I started the 152: "Hey, that does sound like a
big fan". :-)


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL, IA Student

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[Larry Dighera]

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 16:01:43 GMT, "Casey Wilson" >
wrote in <H7yad.4076$ua2.695@trnddc09>::

>
>"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
>> On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 06:40:14 GMT, "Eric Fletcher S.O.C."
>> > wrote in >::
>>
>> >On 10/9/04 6:39 PM, in article
,
>> >"Larry Dighera" > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Have you ever explored the remains of General Patton's WW-II Desert
>> >> Training Center in the Mojave?
>> >
>> >
>> >Where might that be and what is their to see there?
>> >
>>
>> The DTC was created in April 1942 shortly after the seven simultaneous
>> Japanese attacks against Pearl Harbor, Malaya, Hong Kong, Guam,
>> Philippines, Wake Island, and Midway Island. This is where the first
>> US troops to fight in WW-II were trained to invade North Africa to
>> prevent Rommel from reaching the oilfields of Arabia. It covered the
>> western desert from Yuma to Searchlight and Pomona to Prescott, 12
>> million acres in all. In the desert climate the evidence of the
>> divisional campsites still remains today.
>>
>> Here's a link with pictures of the DTC today, and a Sky Trail (similar
>> to a nature trail) that the Bureau of Land Management is creating for
>> GA pilots:
>> http://home.worldnet.att.net/~SkyTrail/dtc/html/dtcskytrail_disclaimer.htm
>> . The username is: dtc, and the password is: blm. Click 'Pilots
>> Guide' on the right of the banner to see the sky trail. There is also
>> information here: http://www.pilotgetaways.com/skytours/index.html
>>
>
> Holy Cow, Larry!! I've landed at Chiriaco Summit (L77) a few times and
>flown over some of the DTC. I knew it was extensive, but I didn't know
>anything about the Sky Trail scheme. I'll have to plan the whole shebang
>next time I head for Bullhead City.

I think you'll find the DTC Sky Trail interesting. Camp Ibis (near
Bullhead) is particularly unique, and Rice has both a divisional camp
and aerodrome. That is an ideal venue for a surface based visitor
center, especially if we could open one of the runways. The BLM used
to own Rice, but they traded it for Essex a while back, so that might
now be a candidate site for a visitors' center also.

> Some words of caution worth reiterating for those who haven't flown over
>the desert. The first two are Density Altitude. Don't expect typical
>performance on a warm day. Like the narrative said, it does get bumpy. I've
>never experienced moderate turbulence along that route, but sometimes
>passengers react poorly to constant light bumps. When that happens, I
>usually climb up a couple thousand feet and it is generally much smoother.

On a clear day (which is the rule in the desert) you can get a good
comprehensive view of an entire campsite all at once from an altitude
of ~9,000', but to see the details on the ground (such as the relief
maps and reservoirs) you need to be down low. Be sure to check with
FSS for MTR activity; we wouldn't want anyone to end up splattered all
over the landscape by a military jet like poor Jacques Olivier.*

On the ground, you'll find many mosaic insignias and other interesting
details. I have been successful in getting permission from the
Metropolitan Water District to use Iron Mountain airport to walk the
remains of both camps in that area. Camp Iron Mountain is probably
the best preserved of them all, as its perimeter is armored against
OHVs with chain link fencing.

>And drink lots of water, the air out here is very dry all year long. Well,
>except near the river where the humidity can stay over the 90% mark at
>midnight.
> Great information, Larry. What can the GA community do to help push the
>Sky Trail scheme along?

Anyone who wishes to propose the creation of a sky trail should
contact the local US Department of Interior Federal Bureau of Land
Management specialist for the location:
http://www.blm.gov/nhp/index.htm .

AOPA has also been receptive to the sky trail idea, and is willing to
provide a letter of support for their creation. The California
Pilot's Association is also supportive of the idea, so I would expect
pilot's associations in other areas would be also.

Draft a proposed sky trail route and supporting documentation; submit
it along with endorsements from other interested parties; work with
the BLM in drafting a grant proposal, and wait....

>Seems I remember someone plotting the Chisolm and
>Oregon Trails not long ago.

Those sound like worthy projects.

Here's a link to the original sky trail that gave me the idea:
http://www.avweb.com/news/places/182379-1.html

>How about starting a new thread on that subject line.

I'll leave that to others who are motivated enough to actually do
something about it. Thanks for your interest.



*
http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief.asp?ev_id=20001212X22313&key=1

[Larry Dighera]

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 16:01:43 GMT, "Casey Wilson" >
wrote in <H7yad.4076$ua2.695@trnddc09>::

>
>"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
>> On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 06:40:14 GMT, "Eric Fletcher S.O.C."
>> > wrote in >::
>>
>> >On 10/9/04 6:39 PM, in article
,
>> >"Larry Dighera" > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Have you ever explored the remains of General Patton's WW-II Desert
>> >> Training Center in the Mojave?
>> >
>> >
>> >Where might that be and what is their to see there?
>> >
>>
>> The DTC was created in April 1942 shortly after the seven simultaneous
>> Japanese attacks against Pearl Harbor, Malaya, Hong Kong, Guam,
>> Philippines, Wake Island, and Midway Island. This is where the first
>> US troops to fight in WW-II were trained to invade North Africa to
>> prevent Rommel from reaching the oilfields of Arabia. It covered the
>> western desert from Yuma to Searchlight and Pomona to Prescott, 12
>> million acres in all. In the desert climate the evidence of the
>> divisional campsites still remains today.
>>
>> Here's a link with pictures of the DTC today, and a Sky Trail (similar
>> to a nature trail) that the Bureau of Land Management is creating for
>> GA pilots:
>> http://home.worldnet.att.net/~SkyTrail/dtc/html/dtcskytrail_disclaimer.htm
>> . The username is: dtc, and the password is: blm. Click 'Pilots
>> Guide' on the right of the banner to see the sky trail. There is also
>> information here: http://www.pilotgetaways.com/skytours/index.html
>>
>
> Holy Cow, Larry!! I've landed at Chiriaco Summit (L77) a few times and
>flown over some of the DTC. I knew it was extensive, but I didn't know
>anything about the Sky Trail scheme. I'll have to plan the whole shebang
>next time I head for Bullhead City.

I think you'll find the DTC Sky Trail interesting. Camp Ibis (near
Bullhead) is particularly unique, and Rice has both a divisional camp
and aerodrome. That is an ideal venue for a surface based visitor
center, especially if we could open one of the runways. The BLM used
to own Rice, but they traded it for Essex a while back, so that might
now be a candidate site for a visitors' center also.

> Some words of caution worth reiterating for those who haven't flown over
>the desert. The first two are Density Altitude. Don't expect typical
>performance on a warm day. Like the narrative said, it does get bumpy. I've
>never experienced moderate turbulence along that route, but sometimes
>passengers react poorly to constant light bumps. When that happens, I
>usually climb up a couple thousand feet and it is generally much smoother.

On a clear day (which is the rule in the desert) you can get a good
comprehensive view of an entire campsite all at once from an altitude
of ~9,000', but to see the details on the ground (such as the relief
maps and reservoirs) you need to be down low. Be sure to check with
FSS for MTR activity; we wouldn't want anyone to end up splattered all
over the landscape by a military jet like poor Jacques Olivier.*

On the ground, you'll find many mosaic insignias and other interesting
details. I have been successful in getting permission from the
Metropolitan Water District to use Iron Mountain airport to walk the
remains of both camps in that area. Camp Iron Mountain is probably
the best preserved of them all, as its perimeter is armored against
OHVs with chain link fencing.

>And drink lots of water, the air out here is very dry all year long. Well,
>except near the river where the humidity can stay over the 90% mark at
>midnight.
> Great information, Larry. What can the GA community do to help push the
>Sky Trail scheme along?

Anyone who wishes to propose the creation of a sky trail should
contact the local US Department of Interior Federal Bureau of Land
Management specialist for the location:
http://www.blm.gov/nhp/index.htm .

AOPA has also been receptive to the sky trail idea, and is willing to
provide a letter of support for their creation. The California
Pilot's Association is also supportive of the idea, so I would expect
pilot's associations in other areas would be also.

Draft a proposed sky trail route and supporting documentation; submit
it along with endorsements from other interested parties; work with
the BLM in drafting a grant proposal, and wait....

>Seems I remember someone plotting the Chisolm and
>Oregon Trails not long ago.

Those sound like worthy projects.

Here's a link to the original sky trail that gave me the idea:
http://www.avweb.com/news/places/182379-1.html

>How about starting a new thread on that subject line.

I'll leave that to others who are motivated enough to actually do
something about it. Thanks for your interest.



*
http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief.asp?ev_id=20001212X22313&key=1

[Larry Dighera]

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 21:53:16 GMT, "Casey Wilson" >
wrote in <gbiad.270$MY.110@trnddc03>::

> Patton is one of my WWII heros. Yep, I've been out there a few times.
>It's one of the places to take relatives who come to visit.
> For me, it's easy to close my eyes and hear the rumble, creaking, and
>groaning of the tanks churning over the terrain, and hear the gunfire from
>machine guns and cannon.

Out west of Blythe near Wiley's Well (IIRC) there are a lot of tank
tracks still evident. I share your ability to envision the DTC in
operation.

>Sometimes even hear Patton growling at his junior officers.

Ummm... That wouldn't be Gen. George S. Patton, Jr.; he actually had
a rather high pitched voice. But he did establish a radio station so
he could broadcast throughout the DTC. He knew how to get things
done. Once, when tank parts were slow to arrive through Army
procurement, he sent a sergeant to Sears to get them, and paid for it
out of his own pocket. Patton was also a pilot who flew his own
Stenson 'flying jeep' to scout the land for the DTC.

>But , what the heck..., I've got an active imagination..., even if
>the ghosts are real.
>
>Casey
>

What's really eerie is walking the grounds of the campsites out in the
lonely desert and seeing the beer bottle caps still on the ground, and
imagining how the recruits must have enjoyed a 'cold one' after
marching from Yuma to Blythe in an evening. I spoke to one of the
owners of the Budwiser distributorship in Palm Springs about his
memories of the DTC (he was just a child at that time). He indicated
that that was how his father got started in the beer business; he
trucked beer out to the campsites during the war. ...

[Larry Dighera]

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 21:53:16 GMT, "Casey Wilson" >
wrote in <gbiad.270$MY.110@trnddc03>::

> Patton is one of my WWII heros. Yep, I've been out there a few times.
>It's one of the places to take relatives who come to visit.
> For me, it's easy to close my eyes and hear the rumble, creaking, and
>groaning of the tanks churning over the terrain, and hear the gunfire from
>machine guns and cannon.

Out west of Blythe near Wiley's Well (IIRC) there are a lot of tank
tracks still evident. I share your ability to envision the DTC in
operation.

>Sometimes even hear Patton growling at his junior officers.

Ummm... That wouldn't be Gen. George S. Patton, Jr.; he actually had
a rather high pitched voice. But he did establish a radio station so
he could broadcast throughout the DTC. He knew how to get things
done. Once, when tank parts were slow to arrive through Army
procurement, he sent a sergeant to Sears to get them, and paid for it
out of his own pocket. Patton was also a pilot who flew his own
Stenson 'flying jeep' to scout the land for the DTC.

>But , what the heck..., I've got an active imagination..., even if
>the ghosts are real.
>
>Casey
>

What's really eerie is walking the grounds of the campsites out in the
lonely desert and seeing the beer bottle caps still on the ground, and
imagining how the recruits must have enjoyed a 'cold one' after
marching from Yuma to Blythe in an evening. I spoke to one of the
owners of the Budwiser distributorship in Palm Springs about his
memories of the DTC (he was just a child at that time). He indicated
that that was how his father got started in the beer business; he
trucked beer out to the campsites during the war. ...