Question for Newps or McNicholl or other ATC Pro

[Casey Wilson]

Hi,

Can you tell me or point me to a reference for how many ATC personnel
are on the active rolls? I'm hoping for a number that includes towers,
centers, and approach and departure -- the boys and girls that talk to us
pilots, admin and beauracracy excluded.

Thanks,

Casey Wilson
Freelance Writer and Photographer

[Ron Natalie]

Casey Wilson wrote:
> Can you tell me or point me to a reference for how many ATC personnel
> are on the active rolls? I'm hoping for a number that includes towers,
> centers, and approach and departure -- the boys and girls that talk to us
> pilots, admin and beauracracy excluded.

The FAA puts the controller workforce at 17,070 for FY '04.
The "bargaining unit" count is 14,736 (agrees with NATCA's
web page which says 15,000), so I suspect this number is probably
closer to what you are looking for.

[Ron Natalie]

Casey Wilson wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Can you tell me or point me to a reference for how many ATC personnel
> are on the active rolls? I'm hoping for a number that includes towers,
> centers, and approach and departure -- the boys and girls that talk to us
> pilots, admin and beauracracy excluded.

By the way, it only took about 30 seconds of poking at the FAA web page
to give up the answer I posted.

http://www.ama500.jccbi.gov/site/library/factbooks/2004/nov04.pdf

[Casey Wilson]

"Ron Natalie" > wrote in message
m...
> Casey Wilson wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Can you tell me or point me to a reference for how many ATC
>> personnel are on the active rolls? I'm hoping for a number that includes
>> towers, centers, and approach and departure -- the boys and girls that
>> talk to us pilots, admin and beauracracy excluded.
>
> By the way, it only took about 30 seconds of poking at the FAA web page
> to give up the answer I posted.
>
> http://www.ama500.jccbi.gov/site/library/factbooks/2004/nov04.pdf

Thanks Ron, I guess I must have been poking in the wrong corners

The implication is that, considering three equally manned shifts, more than
5,000 controllers are watching the skies over the United States for us at
any given time. Impressive.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Casey Wilson" > wrote in message
news:Km8ld.619$h15.266@trnddc07...
>
> "Ron Natalie" > wrote in message
> m...
>> Casey Wilson wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Can you tell me or point me to a reference for how many ATC
>>> personnel are on the active rolls? I'm hoping for a number that includes
>>> towers, centers, and approach and departure -- the boys and girls that
>>> talk to us pilots, admin and beauracracy excluded.
>>
>> By the way, it only took about 30 seconds of poking at the FAA web page
>> to give up the answer I posted.
>>
>> http://www.ama500.jccbi.gov/site/library/factbooks/2004/nov04.pdf
>
> Thanks Ron, I guess I must have been poking in the wrong corners
>
> The implication is that, considering three equally manned shifts, more
> than 5,000 controllers are watching the skies over the United States for
> us at any given time. Impressive.

But, of course, there aren't three equally manned shifts. Many towers and
TRACONs are closed at night, the airports become uncontrolled and the
airspace is assumed by the overlying ARTCC. ARTCCs combine sectors so that
one or two controllers handle the functions of a dozen or so during peak
hours.

[Casey Wilson]

>> The implication is that, considering three equally manned shifts, more
>> than 5,000 controllers are watching the skies over the United States for
>> us at any given time. Impressive.
>
> But, of course, there aren't three equally manned shifts. Many towers and
> TRACONs are closed at night, the airports become uncontrolled and the
> airspace is assumed by the overlying ARTCC. ARTCCs combine sectors so
> that one or two controllers handle the functions of a dozen or so during
> peak hours.

I get your point.
Can you give me an estimate, like 50-percent on days, 30 on swing and 20
on graveyard? [Hmmm, that may be a common name for the wee-hours shift but
it seems inappropriate here, somehow.] That is, without focusing on any one
part of the country. My (usually perverse) logic tells me the NE is more
heavily trafficed than the SW, and East Coast more than Left Coast.
That's probably to be found in the document Mr. Natalie referenced
earlier, but this might be an easier way to get a lead the information.

[BTIZ]

each shift is not equal... when I was doing it.. we had 7 "Crews" in the
Center.
on any given day... two crews for the morning and 2 for the evening shift..
one crew for the midnight shift.. that equals 5, and of course, the other
two were on there days off..

24/7

BT

"Casey Wilson" > wrote in message
news:Km8ld.619$h15.266@trnddc07...
>
> "Ron Natalie" > wrote in message
> m...
>> Casey Wilson wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Can you tell me or point me to a reference for how many ATC
>>> personnel are on the active rolls? I'm hoping for a number that includes
>>> towers, centers, and approach and departure -- the boys and girls that
>>> talk to us pilots, admin and beauracracy excluded.
>>
>> By the way, it only took about 30 seconds of poking at the FAA web page
>> to give up the answer I posted.
>>
>> http://www.ama500.jccbi.gov/site/library/factbooks/2004/nov04.pdf
>
> Thanks Ron, I guess I must have been poking in the wrong corners
>
> The implication is that, considering three equally manned shifts, more
> than 5,000 controllers are watching the skies over the United States for
> us at any given time. Impressive.
>

[BTIZ]

answered earlier.. divide 100 by 7 = 14.3%
so, roughly 28.6% on days, 28.6% on evenings, 14.3% on mids, and the other
28.6% on their day off.

your estimates have them working 7 days straight..

BT

"Casey Wilson" > wrote in message
news:Qccld.100$qS4.69@trnddc09...
>
>
>>> The implication is that, considering three equally manned shifts, more
>>> than 5,000 controllers are watching the skies over the United States for
>>> us at any given time. Impressive.
>>
>> But, of course, there aren't three equally manned shifts. Many towers
>> and TRACONs are closed at night, the airports become uncontrolled and the
>> airspace is assumed by the overlying ARTCC. ARTCCs combine sectors so
>> that one or two controllers handle the functions of a dozen or so during
>> peak hours.
>
> I get your point.
> Can you give me an estimate, like 50-percent on days, 30 on swing and
> 20 on graveyard? [Hmmm, that may be a common name for the wee-hours shift
> but it seems inappropriate here, somehow.] That is, without focusing on
> any one part of the country. My (usually perverse) logic tells me the NE
> is more heavily trafficed than the SW, and East Coast more than Left
> Coast.
> That's probably to be found in the document Mr. Natalie referenced
> earlier, but this might be an easier way to get a lead the information.
>

[Casey Wilson]

"BTIZ" > wrote in message
news:bGgld.93311$bk1.59207@fed1read05...
> answered earlier.. divide 100 by 7 = 14.3%
> so, roughly 28.6% on days, 28.6% on evenings, 14.3% on mids, and the other
> 28.6% on their day off.
>
> your estimates have them working 7 days straight..
>
> BT

Ah, yet another enlightenment. I'm learning more all the time.

Thanks..

[Budget_Dude]

Wow .. that's a lot. Do they need that many? That's our tax money. Don't
we have to pay them all retirement then?


"Ron Natalie" > wrote in message
m...
> Casey Wilson wrote:
>> Can you tell me or point me to a reference for how many ATC
>> personnel are on the active rolls? I'm hoping for a number that includes
>> towers, centers, and approach and departure -- the boys and girls that
>> talk to us pilots, admin and beauracracy excluded.
>
> The FAA puts the controller workforce at 17,070 for FY '04.
> The "bargaining unit" count is 14,736 (agrees with NATCA's
> web page which says 15,000), so I suspect this number is probably
> closer to what you are looking for.

[Bill Denton]

Why don't you call ORD tower or Chicago Center and ask them if they need
that many.


"Budget_Dude" > wrote in message
...
> Wow .. that's a lot. Do they need that many? That's our tax money. Don't
> we have to pay them all retirement then?
>
>
> "Ron Natalie" > wrote in message
> m...
> > Casey Wilson wrote:
> >> Can you tell me or point me to a reference for how many ATC
> >> personnel are on the active rolls? I'm hoping for a number that
includes
> >> towers, centers, and approach and departure -- the boys and girls that
> >> talk to us pilots, admin and beauracracy excluded.
> >
> > The FAA puts the controller workforce at 17,070 for FY '04.
> > The "bargaining unit" count is 14,736 (agrees with NATCA's
> > web page which says 15,000), so I suspect this number is probably
> > closer to what you are looking for.
>
>

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Bill Denton" > wrote in message
...
>
> Why don't you call ORD tower or Chicago Center and ask them if they need
> that many.
>

They'll probably tell you they're short, and they're most likely right.
High traffic facilities tend to be understaffed and low traffic facilities
tend to be overstaffed in the FAA.

[Bill Denton]

Y'all have a plane or two come through your shop everyday, don't you?


"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
link.net...
>
> "Bill Denton" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > Why don't you call ORD tower or Chicago Center and ask them if they need
> > that many.
> >
>
> They'll probably tell you they're short, and they're most likely right.
> High traffic facilities tend to be understaffed and low traffic facilities
> tend to be overstaffed in the FAA.
>
>

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Bill Denton" > wrote in message
...
>
> Y'all have a plane or two come through your shop everyday, don't you?
>

Sometimes more.

[Newps]

BTIZ wrote:

> each shift is not equal... when I was doing it.. we had 7 "Crews" in the
> Center.
> on any given day... two crews for the morning and 2 for the evening shift..
> one crew for the midnight shift.. that equals 5, and of course, the other
> two were on there days off..
>

We have a minimum staffing of 4 for the morning(6-2) and 4 for the
afternoon(1-9) Monday thru Friday. Saturday is 4 and 3. Sunday is 3
and 3. All of our mid shifts there is one controller scheduled, a
second controller can be added if there is enough staffing from the next
mornings shift. And there almost always is enough staffing. Probably
90-95% of our mid shifts are two man. They are very popular as it's an
easy 4 hours of work and four on the couch. Mid shifts have a start
time of 11 pm, but you can come in at 10. The second man may come in at
9 pm.

[Newps]

Budget_Dude wrote:

> Wow .. that's a lot. Do they need that many?

No, but the government has hamstrung itself with antiquated personnel
rules. I cannot be moved to fill positions at other facilities.


That's our tax money. Don't
> we have to pay them all retirement then?

Of course.