A Q (another) only a non-aviator can ask :)

[Ramapriya]

Is it possible to land without using the flaps at all? Just a
combination of the throttle (forward thrust too, perhaps?), elevator
and ailerons...

I know this will sound like a shocker but I'd appreciate a definitive
NO, so that at least one doubt is bedded :)

Ramapriya

[Jay Honeck]

> Is it possible to land without using the flaps at all? Just a
> combination of the throttle (forward thrust too, perhaps?), elevator
> and ailerons...
>
> I know this will sound like a shocker but I'd appreciate a definitive
> NO, so that at least one doubt is bedded :)

Sorry, but the answer is an easy "yes"...

In fact, every student practices no-flap landings as part of basic flight
training.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Bill Denton]

Some aircraft do not have any flaps, so, yes, you can land without them...



"Ramapriya" > wrote in message
om...
> Is it possible to land without using the flaps at all? Just a
> combination of the throttle (forward thrust too, perhaps?), elevator
> and ailerons...
>
> I know this will sound like a shocker but I'd appreciate a definitive
> NO, so that at least one doubt is bedded :)
>
> Ramapriya
>

[Maule Driver]

Sometimes it's best to land without flaps.

In my particular a/c, landings with *negative* flaps are advised. You don't
want to go there.

"Ramapriya" > wrote in message
om...
> Is it possible to land without using the flaps at all? Just a
> combination of the throttle (forward thrust too, perhaps?), elevator
> and ailerons...
>
> I know this will sound like a shocker but I'd appreciate a definitive
> NO, so that at least one doubt is bedded :)
>
> Ramapriya
>

[Bill Denton]

I've seen "negative flaps" mentioned on spec sheets before.

A guess would be flaps extending upward and killing lift necessitated by the
STOL nature of the aircraft.

Am I even close?



"Maule Driver" > wrote in message
m...
> Sometimes it's best to land without flaps.
>
> In my particular a/c, landings with *negative* flaps are advised. You
don't
> want to go there.
>
> "Ramapriya" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Is it possible to land without using the flaps at all? Just a
> > combination of the throttle (forward thrust too, perhaps?), elevator
> > and ailerons...
> >
> > I know this will sound like a shocker but I'd appreciate a definitive
> > NO, so that at least one doubt is bedded :)
> >
> > Ramapriya
> >
>
>

[OtisWinslow]

Interesting. I thought this was more of a cruise thing. May I open
the can of worms and ask why?


"Maule Driver" > wrote in message
m...
> Sometimes it's best to land without flaps.
>
> In my particular a/c, landings with *negative* flaps are advised. You
> don't
> want to go there.
>

[Scott Skylane]

OtisWinslow wrote:
> Interesting. I thought this was more of a cruise thing. May I open
> the can of worms and ask why?
>
>
> "Maule Driver" > wrote in message
> m...
>
>>Sometimes it's best to land without flaps.
>>
>>In my particular a/c, landings with *negative* flaps are advised. You
>>don't
>>want to go there.
>>
>
>
>
He meant to say "landings with negative flaps are *not* advised"

Happy Flying!
Scott Skylane

[G.R. Patterson III]

Ramapriya wrote:
>
> Is it possible to land without using the flaps at all? Just a
> combination of the throttle (forward thrust too, perhaps?), elevator
> and ailerons...

Yes. The plane touches down at a higher rate of speed and, consequently, takes
more runway to stop. In my aircraft, for example, I will touch down at about 60
mph with 0 degrees of flaps and 45 mph with 40 degrees of flaps.

Some airliners would risk tire failure if they landed without flaps.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.

[G.R. Patterson III]

Bill Denton wrote:
>
> I've seen "negative flaps" mentioned on spec sheets before.
>
> A guess would be flaps extending upward and killing lift necessitated by the
> STOL nature of the aircraft.
>
> Am I even close?

Yes and no. Yes, the flaps extend upwards. No, it doesn't have anything to do
with STOL. It's used to reduce drag and increase the cruise speed. I've found
that it is counterproductive above a certain altitude (somewhere around 8,000').
When -7 results in a nose-high attitude, I go back to 0 degrees. I don't often
get that high.

As far as using them for landing is concerned, it allows the pilot to
"three-point" the aircraft at a higher rate of speed. This gives you better
directional control during crosswind landings. Note that the "three-point"
landing under those circumstances is actually a two-point landing, but the
points are the tailwheel and the upwind main.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.

[G.R. Patterson III]

Scott Skylane wrote:
>
> He meant to say "landings with negative flaps are *not* advised"

No, Maule advises that landing with negative flaps is advised in strong
crosswinds.

George Patterson
If a man gets into a fight 3,000 miles away from home, he *had* to have
been looking for it.

[Dean Wilkinson]

I thought that terrorists didn't care about landing...

"Ramapriya" > wrote in message
om...
> Is it possible to land without using the flaps at all? Just a
> combination of the throttle (forward thrust too, perhaps?), elevator
> and ailerons...
>
> I know this will sound like a shocker but I'd appreciate a definitive
> NO, so that at least one doubt is bedded :)
>
> Ramapriya
>

[ShawnD2112]

Of course! Flaps are for girls, anyway!! :-)

Shawn
Taylorcraft BC-12D
Pitts Special S-1D
"Ramapriya" > wrote in message
om...
> Is it possible to land without using the flaps at all? Just a
> combination of the throttle (forward thrust too, perhaps?), elevator
> and ailerons...
>
> I know this will sound like a shocker but I'd appreciate a definitive
> NO, so that at least one doubt is bedded :)
>
> Ramapriya
>

[Journeyman]

In article >, Ramapriya wrote:
> Is it possible to land without using the flaps at all? Just a
> combination of the throttle (forward thrust too, perhaps?), elevator
> and ailerons...

throttle == thrust. Throttle controls the engine. The engine
generates both energy and thrust (not the same thing, but two
sides of a coin, depending on which view you need).

> I know this will sound like a shocker but I'd appreciate a definitive
> NO, so that at least one doubt is bedded :)

You're out of luck :-) As pointed out, some aircraft don't even
have flaps at all.

Flaps generally control how much drag you have (to a degree, they
also change the shape of the wing so you can generate the same lift
at slower speeds). You can also control the drag by flying sideways
a bit. This is called slipping.

It is not approved to do both unless you get the official tee shirt. :-)

Followups to rec.aviation.student.


Morris

[Morgans]

"Dean Wilkinson" > wrote in message
...
> I thought that terrorists didn't care about landing...

Don't start that sh*t again!
--
Jim in NC


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[Michelle P]

Jay,
they practice it all the way up to the 747....

Jay Honeck wrote:

>>Is it possible to land without using the flaps at all? Just a
>>combination of the throttle (forward thrust too, perhaps?), elevator
>>and ailerons...
>>
>>I know this will sound like a shocker but I'd appreciate a definitive
>>NO, so that at least one doubt is bedded :)
>>
>>
>
>Sorry, but the answer is an easy "yes"...
>
>In fact, every student practices no-flap landings as part of basic flight
>training.
>
>

--

Michelle P ATP-ASEL, CP-AMEL, and AMT-A&P

"Elisabeth" a Maule M-7-235B (no two are alike)

Volunteer Pilot, Angel Flight Mid-Atlantic

Volunteer Builder, Habitat for Humanity

[BTIZ]

even in B-1s, just add 50knots or more to the normal approach speed.

BT

"Michelle P" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Jay,
> they practice it all the way up to the 747....
>
> Jay Honeck wrote:
>
>>>Is it possible to land without using the flaps at all? Just a
>>>combination of the throttle (forward thrust too, perhaps?), elevator
>>>and ailerons...
>>>
>>>I know this will sound like a shocker but I'd appreciate a definitive
>>>NO, so that at least one doubt is bedded :)
>>>
>>
>>Sorry, but the answer is an easy "yes"...
>>
>>In fact, every student practices no-flap landings as part of basic flight
>>training.
>>
>
> --
>
> Michelle P ATP-ASEL, CP-AMEL, and AMT-A&P
>
> "Elisabeth" a Maule M-7-235B (no two are alike)
>
> Volunteer Pilot, Angel Flight Mid-Atlantic
>
> Volunteer Builder, Habitat for Humanity
>

[Yeah_right]

Really...... I never did.

***feeling like I'be been cheated***

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:F7mnd.427193$D%.87002@attbi_s51...
> > Is it possible to land without using the flaps at all? Just a
> > combination of the throttle (forward thrust too, perhaps?), elevator
> > and ailerons...
> >
> > I know this will sound like a shocker but I'd appreciate a definitive
> > NO, so that at least one doubt is bedded :)
>
> Sorry, but the answer is an easy "yes"...
>
> In fact, every student practices no-flap landings as part of basic flight
> training.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>
>

[Cub Driver]

On 19 Nov 2004 04:17:28 -0800, (Ramapriya) wrote:

>Is it possible to land without using the flaps at all?

The Piper J-3 and many older airplanes have no flaps. We achieve the
same effect (when we want it) by using the rudder against the
ailerons, forcing the airplane to move forward while turned to one
side. That puts the airstream against the side of the aircraft,
slowing it down and steepening its descent.

The beauty of a slip is that you can carry it down to within inches of
the ground, then straighten the plane, much more quickly than you can
get rid of electrically deployed flaps, and without the bodily
distraction of dumping mechanical flaps.

Tom Buck was famous for his Cub and Champ landings: "high, hot, and
slipping like crazy."

I have no proof of this, but it also seems to me that the ground roll
after a good slip is much shorter.


all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
the blog www.danford.net

[Roger]

On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 01:45:04 GMT, Michelle P
> wrote:

>Jay,
> they practice it all the way up to the 747....

I do it at least once a month in the Deb. It adds about 10 MPH over
the fence and about 1500 feet to the landing. That and the nose is so
high at touchdown you can only see the airport out the side windows.
Then about the only sight of the runway are the edge lights unless
it's a wide runway. <:-))
Nothing but sky through the windshield.

I would add, that although the touchdown is faster it sure is smooth.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
>
>Jay Honeck wrote:
>
>>>Is it possible to land without using the flaps at all? Just a
>>>combination of the throttle (forward thrust too, perhaps?), elevator
>>>and ailerons...
>>>
>>>I know this will sound like a shocker but I'd appreciate a definitive
>>>NO, so that at least one doubt is bedded :)
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Sorry, but the answer is an easy "yes"...
>>
>>In fact, every student practices no-flap landings as part of basic flight
>>training.
>>
>>

[Jay Honeck]

> Really...... I never did.
>
> ***feeling like I'be been cheated***

You *never* practiced no-flaps landings?

Wow -- how long ago did you learn to fly?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"