Drones for local sounding...

[[email protected]]

Does anyone use a drone for local sounding ?
What kind of drone ? Where can I buy one ?
Maximum altitude achieved ?
Thanks in advance -

[son_of_flubber]

In the USA, the FAA has a voluntary standard for model aircraft that limits operation to 400 feet AGL.

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/1acfc3f689769a56862569e70077c9cc/$FILE/ATTBJMAC/ac91-57.pdf

The new legislation for UAVs picks up that 400 AGL limit as I recall.

That said, there are pirates flying quadcopters much higher (7000 meters?). Search Youtube for 'quadcopter altitude record'.

[Bill T]

There is also guidance for flying "RC aircraft" as a hobbiest within 3 miles of an airport. It can be done with proper precautions.
Can you see the RC or quad copter from 6000 to 8000 ft away safely to operate it?

BillT

[SoaringXCellence]

On Sunday, April 27, 2014 3:32:49 PM UTC-7, son_of_flubber wrote:
> In the USA, the FAA has a voluntary standard for model aircraft that limits operation to 400 feet AGL.
>
>
>
> http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/1acfc3f689769a56862569e70077c9cc/$FILE/ATTBJMAC/ac91-57.pdf
>
>
>
> The new legislation for UAVs picks up that 400 AGL limit as I recall.
>
>
>
> That said, there are pirates flying quadcopters much higher (7000 meters?). Search Youtube for 'quadcopter altitude record'.

Actually the FAA has no specific height limit for model aircraft. The Academy of Model Aeronautics (governing and insuring body for model competitions) has a safety rule that limits altitude to 400 feet within 2 miles of an airport, but allows other altitudes elsewhere and also with permission of the airport operator. Many of the model sailplanes are operating at altitudes above 3000 AGL when participating in XC contests, they are required to have a specific observer looking for full-sized aircraft to avoid collision.

If a model is being flow outside of a contest, and not by a member of the AMA, then all bets are off!

[son_of_flubber]

On Sunday, April 27, 2014 7:23:16 PM UTC-4, SoaringXCellence wrote:

> Actually the FAA has no specific height limit for model aircraft.

That said, the FAA does advise in ac91-57:

"Do not fly model aircraft higher than 400 feet above the surface."

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/1acfc3f689769a56862569e70077c9cc/$FILE/ATTBJMAC/ac91-57.pdf

[son_of_flubber]

Using the argument that they are not aircraft and that they are therefore NOT under FAA jurisdiction, some UAV operators are asserting their rights to fly their aircraft in Class B airspace.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngoglia/2014/04/12/faa-files-appeal-brief-in-closely-watched-drone-pilot-case/

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

son_of_flubber wrote, On 5/3/2014 5:33 PM:
> Using the argument that they are not aircraft and that they are
> therefore NOT under FAA jurisdiction, some UAV operators are
> asserting their rights to fly their aircraft in Class B airspace.
>
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngoglia/2014/04/12/faa-files-appeal-brief-in-closely-watched-drone-pilot-case/

I did not see anything in the article related to Class B airspace.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Feb/2010" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm
http://tinyurl.com/yb3xywl

[GM]

On Sunday, May 4, 2014 2:33:05 AM UTC+2, son_of_flubber wrote:
> Using the argument that they are not aircraft and that they are therefore NOT under FAA jurisdiction, some UAV operators are asserting their rights to fly their aircraft in Class B airspace.
>
>
>
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngoglia/2014/04/12/faa-files-appeal-brief-in-closely-watched-drone-pilot-case/

Hmmm .... a drone in class B airspace? Wait until one of them gets sucked through an engine or leaves a long lasting impression in the nose of a jet. I am always shocked by what stupid things people do just because they can and because there are no rules saying you can't do it. The same bunch of guys then cries wolf for 'government over-reach' or 'over-regulation', if everything gets regulated. Common sense seems to have vanished!
GM

[son_of_flubber]

On Sunday, May 4, 2014 12:09:01 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:

> I did not see anything in the article related to Class B airspace.

Right, I posted that particular article because it seemed of marginally better quality than this more highly editorialized article that mentions Class B http://motherboard.vice.com/read/the-faa-now-says-flying-a-drone-in-most-major-cities-is-a-crime

The Class B in question is the surface to 10000 AGL bottom layer of the upside down layer cake.

Here is another case that is trying to stretch existing regulations to cover UAVs. Of note is the 'You're not my boss, so don't tell me what to do.' rabble-rousing tone that reflects poorly on the UAV community.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gregorymcneal/2014/05/03/yosemite-looks-to-ban-drones-but-the-law-is-not-on-their-side/

The UAV hobbyists communities are in general doing some really exciting things http://www.meetup.com/DC-Area-Drone-User-Group/

[Dan Marotta]

While I agree that common sense is definitely on the decline, common sense
would eliminate the upsidedown wedding cake and regulate only the arrival
and departure routes. What mad man actually believes that all of the
airspace in a Class B area is actually required for safe airline operation?

Stupidity is in the eye of the beholder and not necessarily fact. Tell the
airshow pilot that an inverted, low level ribbon cut is "stupid". I'm only
arguing for intelligent regulation of airspace in place of the standard 30
nm around a busy airport.

And, yes, I don't think it's wise to poke the bear by violating the rules of
"good sense".

"GM" > wrote in message
...
On Sunday, May 4, 2014 2:33:05 AM UTC+2, son_of_flubber wrote:
> Using the argument that they are not aircraft and that they are therefore
> NOT under FAA jurisdiction, some UAV operators are asserting their rights
> to fly their aircraft in Class B airspace.
>
>
>
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/johngoglia/2014/04/12/faa-files-appeal-brief-in-closely-watched-drone-pilot-case/

Hmmm .... a drone in class B airspace? Wait until one of them gets sucked
through an engine or leaves a long lasting impression in the nose of a jet.
I am always shocked by what stupid things people do just because they can
and because there are no rules saying you can't do it. The same bunch of
guys then cries wolf for 'government over-reach' or 'over-regulation', if
everything gets regulated. Common sense seems to have vanished!
GM

[son_of_flubber]

On Sunday, May 4, 2014 12:04:05 PM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
> While I agree that common sense is definitely on the decline, common sense
> would eliminate the upsidedown wedding cake and regulate only the arrival
> and departure routes. What mad man actually believes that all of the
> airspace in a Class B area is actually required for safe airline operation?

The only requirement for buying and flying a hobbyist UAV is a Visa card with an available balance. So it is commonsense to define Class B in the most simple way possible.

The guy in NY was flying the quadcopter from the balcony of his high rise condo. Once he crashed into the building, it fell to the pavement below. No evidence of commonsense was found at the scene.

[Bruce Hoult]

On Monday, April 28, 2014 10:19:20 AM UTC+12, Tim Newport-Peace wrote:
> In article >,
> writes
>
> >Does anyone use a drone for local sounding ?
> >What kind of drone ? Where can I buy one ?
> >Maximum altitude achieved ?
> They used to make a device called "Cusonde" (Lasham have one) which
> strapped to the strut of (in the Lasham case) a Pawnee, which would then
> do an assent/decent to (say) 6000 feet. Then download to a PC and use
> the analysis software provided.

Taking a Pawnee to 6000 ft and back is not exactly cheap!

I've seen contests here in NZ where the instrument package from a met balloon was strapped to an ultralight. It was cheaper than using an actual balloon and losing the instrument package every time.

These days, a model aircraft has got to be cheaper.

The general rule for model aircraft here in NZ is also 400 ft, to stay below random VFR traffic passing through.

I've heard of people operating in controlled airspace near an airport, but off the approach/departure paths, getting good cooperation from controllers in flying models higher. If they know about it then they can easily keep other traffic away.

Out in the wops (including on a private glider-only field) I can't see any reason in good sense (as opposed to law) not to fly a model as high as you want IF there is a qualified piloton the ground with a handheld radio monitoring other traffic and keeping them informed of position/intentions of the model.

As a practical matter, I would advise against using a quad. They're not very efficient at turning battery power into altitude, and once the battery fails they are a brick.

The best bet for something that is going to go too high to see easily would be a powered model glider, with an autonomous autopilot using GPS. You'd want a 2-way data link to monitor the altitude etc, and to be able to tell it to switch programs to return home, emergency descent to avoid someone etc..

All this can be done incredibly cheaply and easily now -- in the hundreds of dollars, not thousands.

3-axis accelerometers and pressure altitude sensors and magnetic compass chips are under $5 each. Low bitrate long range radios are under $10. 3-axis gyros are under $20 (e.g. http://nz.element14.com/stmicroelectronics/l3g4200d/gyro-mems-3axis-16llga-16lga/dp/1872924). A micro controller to run it all (and talk to the aircraft control servos) is under $10. You can even get good enough RC servos for under $2 each now!

GPS units are still $30-$50 to mere mortals. If you need one then you might be better off getting a cheap Android phone as the controller.

That's if you were going to build&program everything yourself. But of course people have already done all this for you. e.g. here for $289 http://www.fpvflying.com/products/FY41AP-fixed-wing-autopilot.html

[[email protected]]

On Sunday, April 27, 2014 5:15:28 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> Does anyone use a drone for local sounding ?
>
> What kind of drone ? Where can I buy one ?
>
> Maximum altitude achieved ?
>
> Thanks in advance -

RC Glider would be a better choice but why? It's easy enough to determine soaring conditions based on known variables.

https://www.ssa.org/myhome.asp?mbr=3981940746&show=blog&id=141

Quadcopter? Poor choice!