WEHT Virtual reality headgear?

[Dave Labatt]

Remember this was the big trend in the early 90's? I remember going to Vegas
and seeing a huge line of people waiting to play the original Wolfenstein
using a head gear. It sucked by the way. But there were tons of demos where
they said this was the next big gaming trend. You'd think by now they'd have
something really impressive.

[Edward Tang]

On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 16:20:36 GMT, "Dave Labatt" >
wrote:

>Remember this was the big trend in the early 90's? I remember going to Vegas
>and seeing a huge line of people waiting to play the original Wolfenstein
>using a head gear. It sucked by the way. But there were tons of demos where
>they said this was the next big gaming trend. You'd think by now they'd have
>something really impressive.
>

There's still research being done on those things on the academic side
(I worked with a few implementations), but they still, uh, suck.

- Ed

[Michael Mendelsohn]

Dave Labatt schrieb:
> Remember this was the big trend in the early 90's? [..]
> But there were tons of demos where
> they said this was the next big gaming trend. You'd think by now they'd have
> something really impressive.

Some video drivers (e.g. nVidia's) come with support for LCD
shutterglasses built-in that works with pretty much any directX game to
give you a stereoscopic (= full-depth ) image. If you've never tried it,
you'll be surprised at how much better most of your 3D games look!

IMO, the problem is, as long as the market share of these
technologically simple things is low, there won't be a push toward
affordable VR headgear either.

For lots more information on stereoscopic viewing including HMDs
(Head-Mounted Displays), visit http://www.stereo3d.com .

-mendel

[e f]

Michael Mendelsohn > wrote in message >...
> Some video drivers (e.g. nVidia's) come with support for LCD
> shutterglasses built-in that works with pretty much any directX game to
> give you a stereoscopic (= full-depth ) image. If you've never tried it,
> you'll be surprised at how much better most of your 3D games look!
>
> IMO, the problem is, as long as the market share of these
> technologically simple things is low, there won't be a push toward
> affordable VR headgear either.
>
> For lots more information on stereoscopic viewing including HMDs
> (Head-Mounted Displays), visit http://www.stereo3d.com .
>
> -mendel

And then, you have folks like me who have very poor or nonexistant
stereoscopic vision. I just hope when they make these new "no glasess
3D screens", it doesn't ruin it for those of us who don't see depth
well.

Some of those shutter glasess also make text hard to read, I have
heard.

I think I'd settle for a 21-22 inch OLED monitor I could tape to my
wall in front of my desk. Slap on a pair of headphones, maybe get a
rumble transducer for the desk or chair, and that would be virtual
reality enough for me. Oh, and please make the game fun, too. No
Tresspasser, please.

[Michael Mendelsohn]

e f schrieb:
> Michael Mendelsohn > wrote in message >...
> > For lots more information on stereoscopic viewing including HMDs
> > (Head-Mounted Displays), visit http://www.stereo3d.com .

> And then, you have folks like me who have very poor or nonexistant
> stereoscopic vision.

On the computer, you can do more to tweak the stereo properties of the
game world than you with the real world. ;)

> Some of those shutter glasess also make text hard to read, I have
> heard.

That seems implausible to me, as shutterglasses use the full resolution
of your monitor and I've NEVER had problems with text. If you have
problems with ghosting, you could probably adjust the driver so that the
text plane coincides with the monitor pane, i.e. the left eye view and
the right eye view project the text onto the same spot on the screen.
(You could read it even without shutterglasses then).

On the other hand, most consumer VR headgear uses something close to VGA
resolution, and that of course could mean that text is hard to read.

You cannot use LCD displays with shutterglasses because they can't
switch the picture fast enough.

-mendel

[e f]

Michael Mendelsohn > wrote in message >...
>
> > And then, you have folks like me who have very poor or nonexistant
> > stereoscopic vision.
>
> On the computer, you can do more to tweak the stereo properties of the
> game world than you with the real world. ;)
>

Yeah, but if you have weak or nonexistant depth perception in the
real world, a pair of 3D computer glasses really won't change that.

Just all you biopic folks have fun with your glasses and don't screw
it up for me.

[Michael Mendelsohn]

e f schrieb:
> Yeah, but if you have weak or nonexistant depth perception in the
> real world, a pair of 3D computer glasses really won't change that.

You won't know until you've tried.
My wife said the same about herself (i.e. had it attested by a doctor),
and she
a) can see with LCD shutterglasses and
b) even managed to see "Magic Eye" random dot stereograms.

Btw, if you use a stereoscopic display, you'll see what you usually see
- a worldview with weak depth perception. You're not disadvantaged more
than you usually are. I expect that would go for the "no glasses" LCD
screens as well.

Cheers
mendel

[SDB]

I've used my eDimensional 3D glasses for a few months now, and find them
pretty good for some outdoor games (eg driving sims), where the contrast is
low enough that the ghosting is ignorable, but I'd never use them for
something like Unreal2 where the contrast is often quite high. Even running
an XP2500 & FX5900, I can forget about resolutions above 1024 and AA/AF if I
want a good frame rate.

I do like the 3D effect though, especially with the monitor up close to make
it more immersive, and I'm hoping to see an OLED-based head-mounted display
in the near future that I can use with an IRTracker setup. Anyone out there
designing one?

[e f]

Michael Mendelsohn > wrote in message >...

> Btw, if you use a stereoscopic display, you'll see what you usually see
> - a worldview with weak depth perception. You're not disadvantaged more
> than you usually are. I expect that would go for the "no glasses" LCD
> screens as well.
>
> Cheers
> mendel


Yeah, but if using these new "no glasses" 3D displays is anything
like watching a 3D movie without glasess, I will pass on them.

I do have some depth perception, but it takes a certain degree of
concentration for me to use it reliably. So most of the time I don't.
I can see things like a Viewmaster after some concentration, but
I've never got a magic eye picture to work. 3D movies are hit or
miss. Sometimes I see 3D, and other times I just see wierd colors or
double images.

One project that looked interesting was using a fresnel lense to
create collumated light on a monitor. Supossedly it makes objects
look like they are farther away (because the eyes don't have to focus
at all), but not in the traditional "3D stereoscopic" method. Of
course, I imagine using a very large monitor and a long viewing
distance would have the same effect.

[Michael Mendelsohn]

e f schrieb:
> Michael Mendelsohn wrote:
> > Btw, if you use a stereoscopic display, you'll see what you usually see
> > - a worldview with weak depth perception. You're not disadvantaged more
> > than you usually are. I expect that would go for the "no glasses" LCD
> > screens as well.
>
> Yeah, but if using these new "no glasses" 3D displays is anything
> like watching a 3D movie without glasess, I will pass on them.

Ah, but when you do the latter, you get both views in the same eye
- the glasses are supposed to separate them. A "no glasses" LCD display
should separate the views equally well, i.e. if you're using any stereo
technology correctly, each eye only sees one picture with as little
"crosstalk" from the other eye's picture as possible. This hinges
entirely on the stereo technology and not on the viewer's eyes.

> miss. Sometimes I see 3D, and other times I just see wierd colors or
> double images.

Which is why I said with a stereo driver for your PC, you can adjust the
virtual distance of your eyes and the angles, making the stereo effect
more pronounced (or less!).

> One project that looked interesting was using a fresnel lense to
> create collumated light on a monitor. Supossedly it makes objects
> look like they are farther away (because the eyes don't have to focus
> at all), but not in the traditional "3D stereoscopic" method.

Indeed, that looks interesting. :)

Cheers
mendel

[Revvin]

There are 3D glasses available here (http://www.edimensional.com/) but not
sure how well they work for all games, some people who have tried them with
a few of the online flight sims I have played say that it somehow distorts
the crosshair making it uplayable and can make you sick but for some games
(I think Grand Prix LEgends was one that was mentioned) the glasses worked
really well, this was all a while ago so they may have improved it somewhat.

For motion tracking I use a TrackIR (http://www.naturalpoint.com/) it works
really well for IL-2 Sturmovik Forgotten Battles as that sim has built in
support for the device although you can use it in other sims that have a
mouse look feature. It's when a game has dedicated support this really
shines, it never looses it's centre position..infact I've got up, made a
drink then sat down and it's still found the centre position. It also has
built in support for MS FS2004 (and 2002 I believe) and more games such as
Lock On will support this device. It really increases the immersion to be
able to glance up over the canopy frame and lag pursuit a con or to glance
over to your wing or instrument panel with small movements of your head. I
don't use my joysticks top hat switch in IL-2 anymore.


"Dave Labatt" > wrote in message
.com...
> Remember this was the big trend in the early 90's? I remember going to
Vegas
> and seeing a huge line of people waiting to play the original Wolfenstein
> using a head gear. It sucked by the way. But there were tons of demos
where
> they said this was the next big gaming trend. You'd think by now they'd
have
> something really impressive.
>
>

[Richard Hutnik]

"Dave Labatt" > wrote in message >...
> Remember this was the big trend in the early 90's? I remember going to Vegas
> and seeing a huge line of people waiting to play the original Wolfenstein
> using a head gear. It sucked by the way. But there were tons of demos where
> they said this was the next big gaming trend. You'd think by now they'd have
> something really impressive.

I am sure Eep is very disappointed this didn't catch on. It totally
ruins the chance of having a truely immersive game of chess. Chess
just isn't the same without a 3D VR headset. :-)

This reminds me, when is the world of the Lawnmower Man supposed to
arrive and VR be used as the tool of the antichrist, or something?

- Richard Hutnik