alternative to iGlide for iPhone (6 plus)

[Bob Pasker]

I have been using iGlide now for about 20 flights, and I really don't like it very much. It is riddled with bugs (which I have duly reported to Butterfly only to hear "yes, we're aware of that"), the user experience is terrible (and I speak as someone who has worked in user interaction and user experience for years), and the documentation is woefully out of date (last updated 2/2013) and incomplete. So I have wasted $33.

Are there other apps that people recommend for IoS?

thanks, bob

[waremark]

On Wednesday, 13 May 2015 14:08:42 UTC+1, Bob Pasker wrote:
> I have been using iGlide now for about 20 flights, and I really don't like it very much. It is riddled with bugs (which I have duly reported to Butterfly only to hear "yes, we're aware of that"), the user experience is terrible (and I speak as someone who has worked in user interaction and user experience for years), and the documentation is woefully out of date (last updated 2/2013) and incomplete. So I have wasted $33.
>
> Are there other apps that people recommend for IoS?
>
> thanks, bob

Cannot recommend or otherwise, but the main choice for iOs apart from iGlide is Winpilot. Like many others, I used Winpilot for many years on iPaqs and they did a great job. The iOs version is completely different, and I cannot say whether or not it is better than iGlide.

[glidergeek]

What bugs are you seeing?

[jfitch]

On Wednesday, May 13, 2015 at 6:08:42 AM UTC-7, Bob Pasker wrote:
> I have been using iGlide now for about 20 flights, and I really don't like it very much. It is riddled with bugs (which I have duly reported to Butterfly only to hear "yes, we're aware of that"), the user experience is terrible (and I speak as someone who has worked in user interaction and user experience for years), and the documentation is woefully out of date (last updated 2/2013) and incomplete. So I have wasted $33.
>
> Are there other apps that people recommend for IoS?
>
> thanks, bob

Just goes to show that there are many different tastes in the world. I am curious though, you say it is "riddled with bugs" - what have you run into as examples? I am aware only of a couple of fairly obscure ones and have flown with it for many hours.

Winpilot for iOS has promise, but it does not work very well on the 6+ and the up time before a hard crash seems to be only a few minutes.

[Sean Fidler]

Funny. I find iGlide to be excellent (particularly the UI) and have found very few bugs (both were addresses within days for me) after using it extensively for over 2 years (so far) in numerous contests and cross country flights and in many environments (mountains, flatlands, complex airspace). In my experience, some people just do not get iOS fundementals. Could this, perhaps, be the case for you? What did you not like?

I also have extensive UI design background. I find the iGlide UI to be far superior to any other small portable device soaring software including XC Soar. It requires far less steps to do the majority of critical ot common functions and most pilots I have spoken with find it intuitive and simple to use. This is just my opinion of course.

I have extensive experience with WinPilot, Strepla, SeeYou (Oudie 1 and 2) and XC Soar as well on multiple devices.

I am a member of a firm which primarily consults (and also helps develop) custom mobile applications (typically financial services). UI differentiators (IP, etc) is usually a critical topic.

Please list here (since you flamed it so sharply) all the bugs you found with iGlide, especially the ones the developer acknowledged as "known" bugs. Since you bought the $39 version of iGlide, clearly you have no experience with tasking, etc., correct?

If you want to to talk about terrible UI, I give you SeeYou mobile. Would you not agree?

Then again, UI is a fairly subjective subject and a matter of personal preference.

Can you provide an example of soaring UI's that you approve of?

Thanks!

[jfitch]

On Wednesday, May 13, 2015 at 8:49:47 AM UTC-7, Sean Fidler wrote:
> Funny. I find iGlide to be excellent (particularly the UI) and have found very few bugs (both were addresses within days for me) after using it extensively for over 2 years (so far) in numerous contests and cross country flights and in many environments (mountains, flatlands, complex airspace). In my experience, some people just do not get iOS fundementals. Could this, perhaps, be the case for you? What did you not like?
>
> I also have extensive UI design background. I find the iGlide UI to be far superior to any other small portable device soaring software including XC Soar. It requires far less steps to do the majority of critical ot common functions and most pilots I have spoken with find it intuitive and simple to use. This is just my opinion of course.
>
> I have extensive experience with WinPilot, Strepla, SeeYou (Oudie 1 and 2) and XC Soar as well on multiple devices.
>
> I am a member of a firm which primarily consults (and also helps develop) custom mobile applications (typically financial services). UI differentiators (IP, etc) is usually a critical topic.
>
> Please list here (since you flamed it so sharply) all the bugs you found with iGlide, especially the ones the developer acknowledged as "known" bugs.. Since you bought the $39 version of iGlide, clearly you have no experience with tasking, etc., correct?
>
> If you want to to talk about terrible UI, I give you SeeYou mobile. Would you not agree?
>
> Then again, UI is a fairly subjective subject and a matter of personal preference.
>
> Can you provide an example of soaring UI's that you approve of?
>
> Thanks!

To be fair, different people see things differently. He said he had a background in UI, if this was working for Microsoft for example, then I have a different world view and no common language even to communicate with him. There are people that love Windows 8. I no longer try to understand them, just wish them luck.

He does have a point about the documentation being behind, but then like any good iOS app, you don't really need it.

The universal response to all those I have demonstrated iGlide to, even die-hard SYM and XCSoar fans, was, "wow - that looked easy!". In not a single instance has anyone said, "yeah, I can do that quicker and easier on my SYM/XCSoar....". The only complaint in the past has been, is it sunlight viewable? - and that has been largely addressed by the 6/6+.

I have not used SYM for many hours because it leaves such a bad taste in my mouth, however I have had more bugs and more crashing bugs on XCSoar and Winpilot, both running on an Avier, than on iGlide.

[waremark]

On Wednesday, 13 May 2015 16:49:47 UTC+1, Sean Fidler wrote:
> Funny. I find iGlide to be excellent (particularly the UI) and have found very few bugs (both were addresses within days for me) after using it extensively for over 2 years (so far) in numerous contests and cross country flights and in many environments (mountains, flatlands, complex airspace). In my experience, some people just do not get iOS fundementals. Could this, perhaps, be the case for you? What did you not like?
>
> I also have extensive UI design background. I find the iGlide UI to be far superior to any other small portable device soaring software including XC Soar. It requires far less steps to do the majority of critical ot common functions and most pilots I have spoken with find it intuitive and simple to use. This is just my opinion of course.
>
> I have extensive experience with WinPilot, Strepla, SeeYou (Oudie 1 and 2) and XC Soar as well on multiple devices.
>
> I am a member of a firm which primarily consults (and also helps develop) custom mobile applications (typically financial services). UI differentiators (IP, etc) is usually a critical topic.
>
> Please list here (since you flamed it so sharply) all the bugs you found with iGlide, especially the ones the developer acknowledged as "known" bugs.. Since you bought the $39 version of iGlide, clearly you have no experience with tasking, etc., correct?
>
> If you want to to talk about terrible UI, I give you SeeYou mobile. Would you not agree?
>
> Then again, UI is a fairly subjective subject and a matter of personal preference.
>
> Can you provide an example of soaring UI's that you approve of?
>
> Thanks!


It would be much appreciated if one of you guys who prefer the iGlide and XCSoar UI to SYM could put up a video of setting a task on iGlide and/or XCS.. Would anyone be prepared to do that?

I find it much easier to set tasks and to change zoom levels on SYM than on XCS, but maybe I am missing the efficient ways to do things in XCS. I particularly like being able to customise the map screen of SYM fully flexibly to use my preferred combination of overlays and navboxes, and stats are very easy to find. For iGlide, I played with the lite version and it seemed hopeless, but I never looked at a manual and have never seen the full version so have not done it justice. However, since I have just changed my phone from iOs to a Galaxy S6 I am not going to pursue iGlide.

[Bob Pasker]

thanks everyone who decided it was better to question my bona fides or my experience than to answer the question! but after wading through that stuff, it seems like there's only 1 alternative, WinPilot, which I'll try, and I guess it behoves me to continue to push on the butterfly guys to fix the bugs and improve the experience.

[Sean Fidler]

Bob,

Please state the many bugs you mention. Especially the bugs butterfly acknowledged.

Otherwise, you're just a a drive by shooter ;-)

Thanks,

Sean

[John Carlyle]

As another happy iGlide user, I don't understand Bob Pasker "riddled with bugs" comment either. I know of some obscure bugs in the full version, but nothing that an owner of the lite version would encounter.

I echo the comments of the other iGlide users who have posted: put forward a list, Bob! Otherwise you're just trashing a good product without justification.

-John, Q3


On Thursday, May 14, 2015 at 9:12:16 AM UTC-4, Bob Pasker wrote:
> thanks everyone who decided it was better to question my bona fides or my experience than to answer the question! but after wading through that stuff, it seems like there's only 1 alternative, WinPilot, which I'll try, and I guess it behoves me to continue to push on the butterfly guys to fix the bugs and improve the experience.

[WinPilot]

It would be quite interesting to hear comments from people who actually use the software about ways to improve the user experience. Bob (or anyone else using or trying WinPilot), don't hesitate to submit your feedback directly from the app to developers by going into "Settings.Account->Type your message to developers here".

Also, at this point all the known crashing bugs have been fixed, but we are always happy to learn and fix new ones - use the same mechanism to report them.

The software should work quite well on iPhone 6 plus at this time.

Also, there is a new real time Doppler Radar overlay for the Usa users, we are looking forward to hear from people who tried this. If people like it, we can implement it for other regions as well.


Your Winpilot Team.

[Dan Marotta]

Apostate!

I imagine that somewhere in Silicon Valley they're heating up the
cauldrons of tar for you...



On 5/13/2015 7:08 AM, Bob Pasker wrote:
> I have been using iGlide now for about 20 flights, and I really don't like it very much. It is riddled with bugs (which I have duly reported to Butterfly only to hear "yes, we're aware of that"), the user experience is terrible (and I speak as someone who has worked in user interaction and user experience for years), and the documentation is woefully out of date (last updated 2/2013) and incomplete. So I have wasted $33.
>
> Are there other apps that people recommend for IoS?
>
> thanks, bob
>

--
Dan Marotta

[jfitch]

On Thursday, May 14, 2015 at 8:57:38 AM UTC-7, WinPilot wrote:
> It would be quite interesting to hear comments from people who actually use the software about ways to improve the user experience. Bob (or anyone else using or trying WinPilot), don't hesitate to submit your feedback directly from the app to developers by going into "Settings.Account->Type your message to developers here".
>
> Also, at this point all the known crashing bugs have been fixed, but we are always happy to learn and fix new ones - use the same mechanism to report them.
>
> The software should work quite well on iPhone 6 plus at this time.
>
> Also, there is a new real time Doppler Radar overlay for the Usa users, we are looking forward to hear from people who tried this. If people like it, we can implement it for other regions as well.
>
>
> Your Winpilot Team.

Concerning Winpilot, I have submitted bugs on the built in feedback mechanism and nothing seems to come of it. My suggestion is that you acknowledge the submission (return email?) somehow and track the bugs. On my iPhone 6+ for example, the glider is offset above the middle and to the left (I am assuming it is not recognizing the screen size and thinking it is running on a 6). Using it in either simulator or GPS mode, just panning around and zooming a few times it will crash, usually within 5 minutes. Is there some way to capture the crash log? It just crashes to the home screen. I would like to see the product succeed, but the support needs to be better or it ain't going to happen.

[jfitch]

On Wednesday, May 13, 2015 at 3:21:13 PM UTC-7, waremark wrote:
> On Wednesday, 13 May 2015 16:49:47 UTC+1, Sean Fidler wrote:
> > Funny. I find iGlide to be excellent (particularly the UI) and have found very few bugs (both were addresses within days for me) after using it extensively for over 2 years (so far) in numerous contests and cross country flights and in many environments (mountains, flatlands, complex airspace). In my experience, some people just do not get iOS fundementals. Could this, perhaps, be the case for you? What did you not like?
> >
> > I also have extensive UI design background. I find the iGlide UI to be far superior to any other small portable device soaring software including XC Soar. It requires far less steps to do the majority of critical ot common functions and most pilots I have spoken with find it intuitive and simple to use. This is just my opinion of course.
> >
> > I have extensive experience with WinPilot, Strepla, SeeYou (Oudie 1 and 2) and XC Soar as well on multiple devices.
> >
> > I am a member of a firm which primarily consults (and also helps develop) custom mobile applications (typically financial services). UI differentiators (IP, etc) is usually a critical topic.
> >
> > Please list here (since you flamed it so sharply) all the bugs you found with iGlide, especially the ones the developer acknowledged as "known" bugs. Since you bought the $39 version of iGlide, clearly you have no experience with tasking, etc., correct?
> >
> > If you want to to talk about terrible UI, I give you SeeYou mobile. Would you not agree?
> >
> > Then again, UI is a fairly subjective subject and a matter of personal preference.
> >
> > Can you provide an example of soaring UI's that you approve of?
> >
> > Thanks!
>
>
> It would be much appreciated if one of you guys who prefer the iGlide and XCSoar UI to SYM could put up a video of setting a task on iGlide and/or XCS. Would anyone be prepared to do that?
>
> I find it much easier to set tasks and to change zoom levels on SYM than on XCS, but maybe I am missing the efficient ways to do things in XCS. I particularly like being able to customise the map screen of SYM fully flexibly to use my preferred combination of overlays and navboxes, and stats are very easy to find. For iGlide, I played with the lite version and it seemed hopeless, but I never looked at a manual and have never seen the full version so have not done it justice. However, since I have just changed my phone from iOs to a Galaxy S6 I am not going to pursue iGlide.

Tasking is a deeper subject, but zooming: On XCSoar, simply drag up or down to zoom. The problem there is the touch screen is really poor and making it recognize the drag is tedious and uncertain. On iGlide, simply pinch to zoom, like you do on every other iPhone app. To pan, just touch and drag, no need for a pan mode like XCSoar has. The touch screen on the iPhone 6 is very good, noticeably better than the 5s and worlds apart from the Oudie/Avier/V2. Heck even the old iPaqs were better than that. The redraw speed of the iPhone 6 and iGlide is also worlds apart.

[Dan Marotta]

On a more serious note, Bob's complaint and Sean's (and others') rather
aggressive responses simply support the notion of "Diff'rent strokes for
diff'rent folks)".

I make no bones that I'm a fan of XCSoar. Maybe iGlide allows task
generation if 3 less keystrokes, but who cares? I've got all day.
Heck, I can even build and declare a task today for a flight tomorrow.
I like XCSoar the best because it's the one I have the most experience
with. My glider came with WinPilot but the former owner told me about
XCSoar and I bought a Mio GPS and gave it a try. For someone who'd
never used a moving map before (military, airlines, corporate, gliding)
it was eye-opening!

The only shortcomings were power and sunlight readability. Then a
friend showed me his Dell Streak 5 and I found I could read it with the
sun shining over my shoulder! This is 5+ year old technology, folks!
Why haven't all the makers of portable devices tried transflective
technology? Anyway, for $100 brand new on eBay and with free software,
why would you want anything else? Seriously, who needs realtime doppler
radar overlays while soaring?

I submit that any one of us can get used to any of these products and
become quite proficient with it. Then, upon having difficulty operating
a new interface, it's easy to claim that the first is better than the
second.

On 5/14/2015 10:03 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Apostate!
>
> I imagine that somewhere in Silicon Valley they're heating up the
> cauldrons of tar for you...
>
>
>
> On 5/13/2015 7:08 AM, Bob Pasker wrote:
>> I have been using iGlide now for about 20 flights, and I really don't like it very much. It is riddled with bugs (which I have duly reported to Butterfly only to hear "yes, we're aware of that"), the user experience is terrible (and I speak as someone who has worked in user interaction and user experience for years), and the documentation is woefully out of date (last updated 2/2013) and incomplete. So I have wasted $33.
>>
>> Are there other apps that people recommend for IoS?
>>
>> thanks, bob
>>
>
> --
> Dan Marotta

--
Dan Marotta

[WinPilot]

Jon - we've just sent you email - please reply with a screen shot of the offset glider.
Also, a screenshot of the settings page would be nice so we can try to reproduce the crash while panning.
Would be fun to get you to be one the evangelists of WP over here

[Dan Marotta]

....Use two fingers and drag to pan.

There are so many things in the XCSoar user's guide. How many of you
have looked through that? Not complete enough (at close to 200 pages)?
Jump in and make updates!

On 5/14/2015 10:12 AM, jfitch wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 13, 2015 at 3:21:13 PM UTC-7, waremark wrote:
>> On Wednesday, 13 May 2015 16:49:47 UTC+1, Sean Fidler wrote:
>>> Funny. I find iGlide to be excellent (particularly the UI) and have found very few bugs (both were addresses within days for me) after using it extensively for over 2 years (so far) in numerous contests and cross country flights and in many environments (mountains, flatlands, complex airspace). In my experience, some people just do not get iOS fundementals. Could this, perhaps, be the case for you? What did you not like?
>>>
>>> I also have extensive UI design background. I find the iGlide UI to be far superior to any other small portable device soaring software including XC Soar. It requires far less steps to do the majority of critical ot common functions and most pilots I have spoken with find it intuitive and simple to use. This is just my opinion of course.
>>>
>>> I have extensive experience with WinPilot, Strepla, SeeYou (Oudie 1 and 2) and XC Soar as well on multiple devices.
>>>
>>> I am a member of a firm which primarily consults (and also helps develop) custom mobile applications (typically financial services). UI differentiators (IP, etc) is usually a critical topic.
>>>
>>> Please list here (since you flamed it so sharply) all the bugs you found with iGlide, especially the ones the developer acknowledged as "known" bugs. Since you bought the $39 version of iGlide, clearly you have no experience with tasking, etc., correct?
>>>
>>> If you want to to talk about terrible UI, I give you SeeYou mobile. Would you not agree?
>>>
>>> Then again, UI is a fairly subjective subject and a matter of personal preference.
>>>
>>> Can you provide an example of soaring UI's that you approve of?
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>
>> It would be much appreciated if one of you guys who prefer the iGlide and XCSoar UI to SYM could put up a video of setting a task on iGlide and/or XCS. Would anyone be prepared to do that?
>>
>> I find it much easier to set tasks and to change zoom levels on SYM than on XCS, but maybe I am missing the efficient ways to do things in XCS. I particularly like being able to customise the map screen of SYM fully flexibly to use my preferred combination of overlays and navboxes, and stats are very easy to find. For iGlide, I played with the lite version and it seemed hopeless, but I never looked at a manual and have never seen the full version so have not done it justice. However, since I have just changed my phone from iOs to a Galaxy S6 I am not going to pursue iGlide.
> Tasking is a deeper subject, but zooming: On XCSoar, simply drag up or down to zoom. The problem there is the touch screen is really poor and making it recognize the drag is tedious and uncertain. On iGlide, simply pinch to zoom, like you do on every other iPhone app. To pan, just touch and drag, no need for a pan mode like XCSoar has. The touch screen on the iPhone 6 is very good, noticeably better than the 5s and worlds apart from the Oudie/Avier/V2. Heck even the old iPaqs were better than that. The redraw speed of the iPhone 6 and iGlide is also worlds apart.

--
Dan Marotta

[John Carlyle]

Dan,

Jerry Pournelle of Byte's Chaos Manor fame used to say "better is the enemy of good enough", and I guess you're echoing that sentiment. That's fine, I just recently gave up running Glide Navigator II on an iPAQ 3950, so I understand.

But just like sometimes it's necessary to shoot the engineers and start making product, other times it's necessary to drop the old stuff and adopt the latest and greatest. For me, it was time for iGlide. Why? Well, I find that I can get much more information with much less effort using iGlide than with other moving map programs. In addition, the terrain maps in iGlide are the best I've ever seen in any moving map program - that's important to me as aridge runner. Plus, iGlide gets wind and other air data from my Butterfly Vario and uses it to help me fly better. Finally, I find that the iPhone 6 is more easily readable in bright sunlight than the iPAQ, MIO, Avier, Oudie, etc.

You are correct, proficiency is important and it takes time to acquire. But having spent a significant amount of time with SYM and LK800 I found iGlide to be much easier to use. That may just be the way my mind works, and YMMV...

Anyway, have fun and enjoy soaring, whatever moving map program you use...

-John, Q3

On Thursday, May 14, 2015 at 12:24:26 PM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
> On a more serious note, Bob's complaint and Sean's (and others')
> rather aggressive responses simply support the notion of "Diff'rent
> strokes for diff'rent folks)".
>
> I make no bones that I'm a fan of XCSoar.* Maybe iGlide allows task
> generation* if 3 less keystrokes, but who cares?* I've got all day.*
> Heck, I can even build and declare a task today for a flight
> tomorrow.* I like XCSoar the best because it's the one I have the
> most experience with.* My glider came with WinPilot but the former
> owner told me about XCSoar and I bought a Mio GPS and gave it a
> try.* For someone who'd never used a moving map before (military,
> airlines, corporate, gliding) it was eye-opening!
>
> The only shortcomings were power and sunlight readability.* Then a
> friend showed me his Dell Streak 5 and I found I could read it with
> the sun shining over my shoulder!* This is 5+ year old technology,
> folks!* Why haven't all the makers of portable devices tried
> transflective technology?* Anyway, for $100 brand new on eBay and
> with free software, why would you want anything else?* Seriously,
> who needs realtime doppler radar overlays while soaring?
>
> I submit that any one of us can get used to any of these products
> and become quite proficient with it.* Then, upon having difficulty
> operating a new interface, it's easy to claim that the first is
> better than the second.
>
> Dan Marotta

[Bob Pasker]

The bugs have been submitted to butterfly, and I have better things to do with my time than placate name callers. What you should be asking is for Butterfly to make the bug list public so that you have not only the ones I have submitted but also those submitted by others, and a roadmap of releases when they will be fixed. zendesk, github issues, GetSatisfaction are all platforms where developers can have a transparent dialog with their customers.

[[email protected]]

Dan or Sean

What model Dell Streak is best for XC soar?

Nick

On Thursday, May 14, 2015 at 9:24:26 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
> On a more serious note, Bob's complaint and Sean's (and others')
> rather aggressive responses simply support the notion of "Diff'rent
> strokes for diff'rent folks)".
>
>
>
> I make no bones that I'm a fan of XCSoar.* Maybe iGlide allows task
> generation* if 3 less keystrokes, but who cares?* I've got all day.*
> Heck, I can even build and declare a task today for a flight
> tomorrow.* I like XCSoar the best because it's the one I have the
> most experience with.* My glider came with WinPilot but the former
> owner told me about XCSoar and I bought a Mio GPS and gave it a
> try.* For someone who'd never used a moving map before (military,
> airlines, corporate, gliding) it was eye-opening!
>
>
>
> The only shortcomings were power and sunlight readability.* Then a
> friend showed me his Dell Streak 5 and I found I could read it with
> the sun shining over my shoulder!* This is 5+ year old technology,
> folks!* Why haven't all the makers of portable devices tried
> transflective technology?* Anyway, for $100 brand new on eBay and
> with free software, why would you want anything else?* Seriously,
> who needs realtime doppler radar overlays while soaring?
>
>
>
> I submit that any one of us can get used to any of these products
> and become quite proficient with it.* Then, upon having difficulty
> operating a new interface, it's easy to claim that the first is
> better than the second.
>
>

[Andrzej Kobus]

On Thursday, May 14, 2015 at 5:36:27 PM UTC-4, Bob Pasker wrote:
> The bugs have been submitted to butterfly, and I have better things to do with my time than placate name callers. What you should be asking is for Butterfly to make the bug list public so that you have not only the ones I have submitted but also those submitted by others, and a roadmap of releases when they will be fixed. zendesk, github issues, GetSatisfaction are all platforms where developers can have a transparent dialog with their customers.

I too use iGlide in addition to my permanently mounted computer. I am not sure what Bob is talking about.
Bob, after trashing the iGlide product it would be very appropriate for you to tell us about the most annoying bugs you encountered. Give us 3 please.

Andrzej

[jfitch]

On Thursday, May 14, 2015 at 2:36:27 PM UTC-7, Bob Pasker wrote:
> The bugs have been submitted to butterfly, and I have better things to do with my time than placate name callers. What you should be asking is for Butterfly to make the bug list public so that you have not only the ones I have submitted but also those submitted by others, and a roadmap of releases when they will be fixed. zendesk, github issues, GetSatisfaction are all platforms where developers can have a transparent dialog with their customers.

So I guess it isn't "riddled with bugs" after all.

Dan, it isn't that you can't do most of the things on XCSoar, given enough time and attention. There are things though, like adding a turn point to the task *in the air* that the extra time and attention is unwanted and sometimes even dangerous. If you are happy with the Dell and XCSoar you are way ahead since the cost is so low. But for me there are better offerings.

[Johnny T]

On Thursday, May 14, 2015 at 2:36:27 PM UTC-7, Bob Pasker wrote:
> What you should be asking is for Butterfly to make the bug list public so that you have not only the ones I have submitted but also those submitted by others, and a roadmap of releases when they will be fixed. zendesk, github issues, GetSatisfaction are all platforms where developers can have a transparent dialog with their customers.

Umm... no tech company in their right mind that is developing a commercial product is going to make their bug list public. Bug tracking is included with github projects, but that is because github projects are open source and collaborated on using github.

[Sean Fidler]

Bob, your credibility is gone with me on this topic. I believe you found no bugs at all. Moving on to relevant input...

[glidergeek]

Maybe this is why he so mad
http://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-2.0/gliding/flightbook.html?sp=2015&st=olcp&rt=olc&pi=58010

[Bob Pasker]

Thanks, I'll give it a try. in the meanwhile, check your httpd logs for broken links to this page: http://www.winpilot.com/New_Features.asp

On Thursday, May 14, 2015 at 11:57:38 AM UTC-4, WinPilot wrote:
> It would be quite interesting to hear comments from people who actually use the software about ways to improve the user experience. Bob (or anyone else using or trying WinPilot), don't hesitate to submit your feedback directly from the app to developers by going into "Settings.Account->Type your message to developers here".
>
> Also, at this point all the known crashing bugs have been fixed, but we are always happy to learn and fix new ones - use the same mechanism to report them.
>
> The software should work quite well on iPhone 6 plus at this time.
>
> Also, there is a new real time Doppler Radar overlay for the Usa users, we are looking forward to hear from people who tried this. If people like it, we can implement it for other regions as well.
>
>
> Your Winpilot Team.

[Sean Fidler]

Dell streak 5 was very good. Keep in mind that it is also fairly old now. The latest Android smartphones (especially the Samsung Galaxy Note 4, OLED display) are surpassing the Streak and are fully supported with the newest versions of Android. The Note 3 is also very, very good along with many of the latest generation. I think the Streak 7 was good to but fairly large..

[[email protected]]

Since RAS is discussing glide computer options, Rob Dunning's Top Hat deserves mentioning http://www.tophatsoaring.org/. Top Hat uses XCSoar as its base but puts a different "face" to it which he states is "simple, powerful". I found his videos informative and salute him for his "free source" contribution.

[Bob Pasker]

here's another bug I filed today.

Aktualisiert von: Marc Förderer, 15. Mai, 17:21:
Hi,

I have. It can be resolved with changing the filter (as a workarround).

We'll change that. Thanks for the help!
Marc


Aktualisiert von: Bob Pasker, 15. Mai, 17:20:
lite on iphone6

have you been able to reproduce?


Aktualisiert von: Marc Förderer, 15. Mai, 16:05:
(If you set the data filter to lets say 3000km, you will of course be able to work around that, yet this is not what we want / no general solution)

Marc


Aktualisiert von: Marc Förderer, 15. Mai, 15:57:
What version do you use? Which device?

I suspect iGlide lite on iPhone?

Sorry for the guessing.
Marc


Aktualisiert von: Bob Pasker, 15. Mai, 14:54:
also, i don't know if I can reproduce the problem without taking another 1500km trip!

> On May 15, 2015, at 8:52 AM, Bob Pasker wrote:
>
> Am I missing something?
>
>

Aktualisiert von: Bob Pasker, 15. Mai, 14:53:
Am I missing something?


Sent from my iPhone

Anhänge
image1.PNG

Aktualisiert von: Marc Förderer, 15. Mai, 14:46:
What happens if you go to Menu > route > clear route?

Will it "work" afterwards?

Marc


Aktualisiert von: Bob Pasker, 15. Mai, 14:40:
There should never be any reason why I can't clear the destination! But the answer is yes it had a GPS lock.

Sent from my iPhone


Aktualisiert von: Marc Förderer, 15. Mai, 14:31:
In the second city, did you have a current position in iGlide? Was there a GPS-Signal?

A reason for this behavior would be that iGlide did not get a current GPS position.

Marc


Aktualisiert von: Bob Pasker, 15. Mai, 14:04:
i don't understand the question. I flew from one city to another. when I turned on iGlide, i could not clear the previous destination


Aktualisiert von: Marc Förderer, 15. Mai, 13:51:
maybe I got you wrong, did you have a valid position after being 1500km away?

Marc


Aktualisiert von: Bob Pasker, 15. Mai, 13:46:
its not intended to be used in two different places?


Aktualisiert von: Marc Förderer, 15. Mai, 13:45:
Hi Bob,

thanks for the info. We'll fix that, but well, the app is not intended for this purpose.

Cheers
Marc


Aktualisiert von: Bob Pasker, 15. Mai, 13:23:
1. set a waypoint X as a destination in iGlide
2. do a bunch of soaring
3. with the destination still turned enabled, turn off the app
4. fly commercial aircraft to another city 1500km away
5. turn on the app
6. destination X remains selected, destination is 1500km away.
7. touch "NEAREST" to select a new destination. all nearby waypoints are invisible because the data filter is set to 500km, so all you see are airports 1,000km away

the only way I found to clear the fix was to delete the app and reinstall it, which of course deleted all of my data/preferences :(

[Dan Marotta]

Thanks John,

Shoot the engineers! Yes! As a design engineer I was always trying to
make something "better". Then as a Staff Systems Engineer and Test
Director, it was simply to develop requirements to fulfill the
customer's needs and ensure that they were achieved as quickly and
economically as possible. So I'm familiar with both ends of the spectrum.

As to different strokes, I find it curious that you are interested in
terrain resolution on your moving map when there's a wonderful device
called a "canopy" which provides the highest resolution possible. I
found the terrain display on the moving map to interfere with the
information I wanted to see. Again, this is probably just a personal
prejudice.

I agree with you on the main point, however. Have fun, fly safely, and
enjoy whatever solutions you choose.

On 5/14/2015 2:57 PM, John Carlyle wrote:
> Dan,
>
> Jerry Pournelle of Byte's Chaos Manor fame used to say "better is the enemy of good enough", and I guess you're echoing that sentiment. That's fine, I just recently gave up running Glide Navigator II on an iPAQ 3950, so I understand.
>
> But just like sometimes it's necessary to shoot the engineers and start making product, other times it's necessary to drop the old stuff and adopt the latest and greatest. For me, it was time for iGlide. Why? Well, I find that I can get much more information with much less effort using iGlide than with other moving map programs. In addition, the terrain maps in iGlide are the best I've ever seen in any moving map program - that's important to me as aridge runner. Plus, iGlide gets wind and other air data from my Butterfly Vario and uses it to help me fly better. Finally, I find that the iPhone 6 is more easily readable in bright sunlight than the iPAQ, MIO, Avier, Oudie, etc.
>
> You are correct, proficiency is important and it takes time to acquire. But having spent a significant amount of time with SYM and LK800 I found iGlide to be much easier to use. That may just be the way my mind works, and YMMV...
>
> Anyway, have fun and enjoy soaring, whatever moving map program you use...
>
> -John, Q3
>
> On Thursday, May 14, 2015 at 12:24:26 PM UTC-4, Dan Marotta wrote:
>> On a more serious note, Bob's complaint and Sean's (and others')
>> rather aggressive responses simply support the notion of "Diff'rent
>> strokes for diff'rent folks)".
>>
>> I make no bones that I'm a fan of XCSoar. Maybe iGlide allows task
>> generation if 3 less keystrokes, but who cares? I've got all day.
>> Heck, I can even build and declare a task today for a flight
>> tomorrow. I like XCSoar the best because it's the one I have the
>> most experience with. My glider came with WinPilot but the former
>> owner told me about XCSoar and I bought a Mio GPS and gave it a
>> try. For someone who'd never used a moving map before (military,
>> airlines, corporate, gliding) it was eye-opening!
>>
>> The only shortcomings were power and sunlight readability. Then a
>> friend showed me his Dell Streak 5 and I found I could read it with
>> the sun shining over my shoulder! This is 5+ year old technology,
>> folks! Why haven't all the makers of portable devices tried
>> transflective technology? Anyway, for $100 brand new on eBay and
>> with free software, why would you want anything else? Seriously,
>> who needs realtime doppler radar overlays while soaring?
>>
>> I submit that any one of us can get used to any of these products
>> and become quite proficient with it. Then, upon having difficulty
>> operating a new interface, it's easy to claim that the first is
>> better than the second.
>>
>> Dan Marotta

--
Dan Marotta

[Dan Marotta]

Dell Streak 5.

Not the Dell Streak 7.

It is only the 5 which uses the transflective display.

On 5/14/2015 4:42 PM, wrote:
> Dan or Sean
>
> What model Dell Streak is best for XC soar?
>
> Nick
>
> On Thursday, May 14, 2015 at 9:24:26 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
>> On a more serious note, Bob's complaint and Sean's (and others')
>> rather aggressive responses simply support the notion of "Diff'rent
>> strokes for diff'rent folks)".
>>
>>
>>
>> I make no bones that I'm a fan of XCSoar. Maybe iGlide allows task
>> generation if 3 less keystrokes, but who cares? I've got all day.
>> Heck, I can even build and declare a task today for a flight
>> tomorrow. I like XCSoar the best because it's the one I have the
>> most experience with. My glider came with WinPilot but the former
>> owner told me about XCSoar and I bought a Mio GPS and gave it a
>> try. For someone who'd never used a moving map before (military,
>> airlines, corporate, gliding) it was eye-opening!
>>
>>
>>
>> The only shortcomings were power and sunlight readability. Then a
>> friend showed me his Dell Streak 5 and I found I could read it with
>> the sun shining over my shoulder! This is 5+ year old technology,
>> folks! Why haven't all the makers of portable devices tried
>> transflective technology? Anyway, for $100 brand new on eBay and
>> with free software, why would you want anything else? Seriously,
>> who needs realtime doppler radar overlays while soaring?
>>
>>
>>
>> I submit that any one of us can get used to any of these products
>> and become quite proficient with it. Then, upon having difficulty
>> operating a new interface, it's easy to claim that the first is
>> better than the second.
>>
>>

--
Dan Marotta

[son_of_flubber]

On Friday, May 15, 2015 at 11:26:31 AM UTC-4, Bob Pasker wrote:
> here's another bug I filed today.

I don't doubt that you've found a lot of bugs that no one else has found. Most people stay on the well-worn path, and the bugs on those paths are consequently found and removed. Some people like yourself have a habit of using the program more broadly and then they find additional bugs. The other thing that happens is that people fail to notice bugs that they stumble across or they are too lazy to report them.

The grief and character assassination that you've been given here is entirely short sighted and rude. It's not unpatriotic to find bugs. I thank you for your service. If I were an IGlide developer, I'd give you a free copy of the full program to reap the services of a careful tester.

The problem with fixing obscure bugs is that the developers will sometimes introduce more serious bugs for every inoffensive bug that they remove. This is a good justification for not taking the risk of fixing certain bugs. 'If it's not broken too badly, don't try to fix it and make it worse.' Sometimes when a piece of software has a lot bugs, it is better to delete it and start over. Quality is most successfully (and most economically) introduced during the Functional Testing stage. Trying to introduce quality at the System Testing stage is what a lot of managers like to try, to cover up their mismanagement of the initial development process, but it can be like papering over shoddy construction. It can be an attempt to remove the obvious signs of poor quality without removing the underlying poor quality.

The common practice of running more than one flight computer in the cockpit is a good strategy for improving reliability. Putting one of those programs on a cellphone is a practical means to do that.

[Dan Marotta]

Of course each of us likes what he likes. I have no problem with that.
It's when I hear false information about one thing in the promotion of
another that I offer my opinions.

I keep hearing about "adding a turnpoint IN FLIGHT" so I fired up my
XCSoar simulator. Here's how it went: On course, I decided I wanted to
add a point. I touched that point and an info display popped up, I
touched the "next" arrow and selected "Insert into task". That was it!
Nothing more. How difficult or distracting was that?

Truly I don't care what you or anyone else uses to plan or execute his
flights. I just don't like to see one product unjustly promoted or
disparaged when compared to another. Next thing you know we'll be
hearing that the global climate is changing... Of course it is, as it
has been for the past 4.3 billion or so years!



On 5/14/2015 6:30 PM, jfitch wrote:
> On Thursday, May 14, 2015 at 2:36:27 PM UTC-7, Bob Pasker wrote:
>> The bugs have been submitted to butterfly, and I have better things to do with my time than placate name callers. What you should be asking is for Butterfly to make the bug list public so that you have not only the ones I have submitted but also those submitted by others, and a roadmap of releases when they will be fixed. zendesk, github issues, GetSatisfaction are all platforms where developers can have a transparent dialog with their customers.
> So I guess it isn't "riddled with bugs" after all.
>
> Dan, it isn't that you can't do most of the things on XCSoar, given enough time and attention. There are things though, like adding a turn point to the task *in the air* that the extra time and attention is unwanted and sometimes even dangerous. If you are happy with the Dell and XCSoar you are way ahead since the cost is so low. But for me there are better offerings.

--
Dan Marotta

[Dan Marotta]

A really cheap shot. We all had to start humbly before spreading our wings.



On 5/14/2015 11:26 PM, Glidergeek wrote:
> Maybe this is why he so mad
> http://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-2.0/gliding/flightbook.html?sp=2015&st=olcp&rt=olc&pi=58010

--
Dan Marotta

[Bob Pasker]

>The grief and character assassination that you've been given here is entirely short sighted and rude.

the only person whose character has been assassinated on this thread has been mine. I have a job and a family, and I'm sorry if I would rather spend the time taking my daughter to the park (like I did yesterday afternoon) instead of wading through a few months of email to re-produce a list of bugs that had already been submitted to the manufacturer.

and to the person who tried to shame me by posting my OLC account, that was one of the most childish things I have ever seen in 26 years of using the internet. anyone who would like to make fun of my soaring experience is welcome to read this: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.aviation.soaring/pasker/rec.aviation.soaring/38wRUkekgIM/glLCoyEoaDEJ

--bob

[Sean Fidler]

Bob,

You started this thread. A thread clearly naming iGlide and slamming iGlide. You stated (paraphrasing) that it was "full of bugs" and had a "terrible UI." So far, you have only proven to have reported one bug and have failed to identify the supposed "many" others you claim to have identified. You also claimed that iGlide acknowledged many of your bugs as well.

You have brought this thread on yourself. You chose to name iGlide as a poor application.

I am fine if you have found bugs. I would like to hear about them. If you do not produce them, YES, I am going to have to call you out on it and say I DONT REALLY BELIEVE YOU.

Again, you said many bugs, you have only shown me ONE (filed...you guessed it...today).

Please provide a complete list of your "MANY" reported iGlide bugs so that your thread has some actual value to the rest of us and does not just look like a "drive by shooting..."

Otherwise, stop crying about the attention that you have brought upon yourself. It goes with the territory. I suggest you grow some thicker skin.

Sean

[glidergeek]

Dan if you look at his flights it looks like he had several short flights on one day and several more on the next day. Is it possible this is the bugs Bob is referring to?
My comment was not an attack, it is an obersivation some of the times look to overlap. Bob can't or won't explain, Mr. Fiddler is the one picking on Bob : >) .
Bob grow up.

[6PK]

On Friday, May 15, 2015 at 9:44:11 AM UTC-7, Bob Pasker wrote:
> >The grief and character assassination that you've been given here is entirely short sighted and rude.
>
> the only person whose character has been assassinated on this thread has been mine. I have a job and a family, and I'm sorry if I would rather spend the time taking my daughter to the park (like I did yesterday afternoon) instead of wading through a few months of email to re-produce a list of bugs that had already been submitted to the manufacturer.
>
> and to the person who tried to shame me by posting my OLC account, that was one of the most childish things I have ever seen in 26 years of using the internet. anyone who would like to make fun of my soaring experience is welcome to read this: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.aviation.soaring/pasker/rec.aviation.soaring/38wRUkekgIM/glLCoyEoaDEJ
>
> --bob

Quote= "The grief and character assassination that you've been given here is entirely short sighted and rude"
Bob
Don't feel bad. This was not the first time this happened.
The matter of fact this character regularly "character assonates" anyone dear to disagree with him.
I find this kind of behavior not only childish but probably the reflections of a rather narcissistic and insecure person, sign of a real sociopath.
6PK

[Sean Fidler]

Once again, I am thoroughly amused! Thank you!

Again, Bob vigirously attacked iGlide claiming it was essentially awful software. I asked Bob to substantiate that claim and explain his comments (bugs). He failed to do so. In fact he refused even though he also claimed that Butterfly acknowledged several of his "bugs." I summarized this for the thread readers and have (along with others) defended iGlide from a clearly unsubstantiated and baseless attack. This threads author clearly provided us all with "a work of utter fiction" at best. At worst...

Now I have some other clown calling me a sociopath? I see that as pure victory. :-)

Obviously, I have struck the "proper" nerve with simple, clear and fact based responses to Bob's highly questionable statements about iGlide.

The fact is that iGlide is not "riddled" with bugs at all. It's among the very best soaring navigation applications available for any platform.

End of discussion. Moving on.

[[email protected]]

My own iGlide experience came about from being an eeejit. I left my Oudie 3 at home (a country different to my gliding location/s) and wanted a cheap stand-in to use in a club glider for a 500km task. For me, iGlide worked really well. It logged the entire flight, uploaded to OLC directly as well as emailing the file in both .igc and .kml formats to myself. It also synced with the iPad version via Dropbox. The iPhone was held in a suction mount in vertical orientation and was always readable, no washout in the sun. I use an iPhone 5 and the screen could do with being a little bigger (# of nav boxes are limited). An iPad mini would be too big unless panel mounted.. An iPhone 6 would be better and a 6+ great. UI is intuitive and easy to use. I used it without the local TP's because unlike maps and airspace, they can only be loaded via iTunes and I was without my laptop too. Task creation isn't difficult, you can choose your type of OZ and there are some great rubber banding options for modification (like Oz Runways, ForeFlight Mobile, etc). Overall, a good product! It certainly saved me from 'map and compassing' my way around!

I post this from the perspective of a computer literate glider pilot (yes, one of the 12 :P ) and low glider time, high powered time. It was a competitive flight but not a competition (ie. only amongst friends)

CJ - B3

[Dan Marotta]

Geek: I apologize to you. I did mistake your intention.

On 5/15/2015 12:57 PM, Glidergeek wrote:
> Dan if you look at his flights it looks like he had several short flights on one day and several more on the next day. Is it possible this is the bugs Bob is referring to?
> My comment was not an attack, it is an obersivation some of the times look to overlap. Bob can't or won't explain, Mr. Fiddler is the one picking on Bob : >) .
> Bob grow up.

--
Dan Marotta

[Dan Marotta]

Great review! I would only ask about battery life with respect to
flight time.

On 5/16/2015 8:37 AM, wrote:
> My own iGlide experience came about from being an eeejit. I left my Oudie 3 at home (a country different to my gliding location/s) and wanted a cheap stand-in to use in a club glider for a 500km task. For me, iGlide worked really well. It logged the entire flight, uploaded to OLC directly as well as emailing the file in both .igc and .kml formats to myself. It also synced with the iPad version via Dropbox. The iPhone was held in a suction mount in vertical orientation and was always readable, no washout in the sun. I use an iPhone 5 and the screen could do with being a little bigger (# of nav boxes are limited). An iPad mini would be too big unless panel mounted. An iPhone 6 would be better and a 6+ great. UI is intuitive and easy to use. I used it without the local TP's because unlike maps and airspace, they can only be loaded via iTunes and I was without my laptop too. Task creation isn't difficult, you can choose your type of OZ and there are some great rubber banding options for modification (like Oz Runways, ForeFlight Mobile, etc). Overall, a good product! It certainly saved me from 'map and compassing' my way around!
>
> I post this from the perspective of a computer literate glider pilot (yes, one of the 12 :P ) and low glider time, high powered time. It was a competitive flight but not a competition (ie. only amongst friends)
>
> CJ - B3

--
Dan Marotta

[glidergeek]

Dan no problem this is a public open forum we all should realize that when people use real names it opens up for more scrutiny. I do find the OP's thread a little bit over-the-top with accusations that aren't being backed up. I looked at his flights it's possible that the bugs he is talking about are related to his flights. Maybe he got phone calls that interrupted the recordings? Maybe there's other things involved he's not divulging. But if you're coming on a public forum like this you better expect every answer except for what you're looking and plenty of thread drift. That's why I call this the "rec aviation speculation" group. There is plenty of really good information here, and there's plenty of thread drift and speculation. There's a lot of kudos and a lot of insults and a lot of in between, and there's a lot of white elephants in the room that everybody sees but nobody wants to talk about.

I too have used it in the Iglide light configuration and found it very easy to use and when my GPS 20 failed to record my last ( and only flight this year) flight, without knowing that Iglide would record I downloaded it to OLC it did it without fail and I was very impressed. The only bug I found originally was trying to download use your way points from a database into the App. A few emails back to the makers were replied to and timely manner with an explanation of how to do it and that they were aware that there was a bug. I was told to start the app and then download it from iTunes and I was successful in getting my waypoints installed.

[[email protected]]

I upgraded to iGlide Pro yesterday after using Lite and Advanced for over a year. I use iPhone5 and mount it on a $10 suction cup phone holder from Walmart. I really like the program because it is easy to check my situation at a glance and to modify my task enroute. I have purchased SeeYou Mobile in the past and have NavPro on the same phone. Glidergeek's comment on the failure of his GPS20 and the iGlide record caught my attention. About 200km into a flight last Wednesday my iGlide wouldn't load so I switched to NavPro so I could figure out where I was on task. I struggled with the screen but it got me through. At the end of the flight I downloaded my flight log from iGlide and much to my amazement it was all there even though it had not been operational for the last 150km. It loaded to the OLC without problem. You can see from the OLC that it performed perfectly (with the exception that I couldn't get it to stay on the screen)
http://www.onlinecontest.org/olc-2.0/gliding/flightinfo.html?dsId=4316324

Any advice on how to declare a task so that an OO can see it and confirm it at the end of the flight?

[John Carlyle]

iGlide loads turn points just fine using Dropbox - you don't need iTunes. To do it, activate Dropbox (menu|interfaces and sensors|dropbox sync). Then on your PC move your waypoints into dropbox/apps/iglide/wpt.

-John, Q3

On Saturday, May 16, 2015 at 10:37:28 AM UTC-4, wrote:
I used it without the local TP's because unlike maps and airspace, they can only be loaded via iTunes and I was without my laptop too. >
> CJ - B3

[[email protected]]

Good to learn John, cheers.

CJ

[cftsinimbus]

As an XCsoar user now with an Iphone, can anyone tell my how well Iglide works with other devices? I have an LX EOS and Flarm.

With XCsoar I am presented with Flarm Nav info/warning screens and recieve full data packets from the EOS computer (gps, bario, windspeed, etc. ). I can also declare tasks to the EOS and upload files. All of this is sent and recieved via bluetooth. I have not found much info in the Iglide manuals regarding these kinds of features and would like to know more before I buy.

[jfitch]

On Tuesday, September 19, 2017 at 12:31:45 PM UTC-7, cftsinimbus wrote:
> As an XCsoar user now with an Iphone, can anyone tell my how well Iglide works with other devices? I have an LX EOS and Flarm.
>
> With XCsoar I am presented with Flarm Nav info/warning screens and recieve full data packets from the EOS computer (gps, bario, windspeed, etc. ). I can also declare tasks to the EOS and upload files. All of this is sent and recieved via bluetooth. I have not found much info in the Iglide manuals regarding these kinds of features and would like to know more before I buy.

Air Avionics is sadly lagging in the documentation department. If you have an Air Vario and their Connect Stick (or the equivalent from Amazon for $15), iGlide will connect to the vario and Flarm and produce all those things and more.You will get all barographic data, Flarm information and warnings, and instantaneous wind calculations. Air Avionics also sells a WiFi interface that will take an LX style serial stream and send it via WiFi to iGlide. I have not tried one of those, but it is supposed to give you much of the same things (in). You would not get instantaneous wind and I doubt it will upload files or declare tasks to the EOS.

[Soartech]

For Apple Iphone you might take a look at the FlySkyHi app. I don't have one so I know nothing about it. One of my freinds uses it.

[cftsinimbus]

Thanks for that.

Looking forward to using the Iphone. The Android devices I have all are somewhat readable, but the Iphone is much better in sunlight than any of them.

The EOS has Bluetooth built in. Flarm is hard wired into into it and passes the flarm data through via Bluetooth to other devices.

I will comment on the results.

[jfitch]

On Thursday, September 21, 2017 at 8:59:41 AM UTC-7, cftsinimbus wrote:
> Thanks for that.
>
> Looking forward to using the Iphone. The Android devices I have all are somewhat readable, but the Iphone is much better in sunlight than any of them.
>
> The EOS has Bluetooth built in. Flarm is hard wired into into it and passes the flarm data through via Bluetooth to other devices.
>
> I will comment on the results.

The iPhone will not use Bluetooth to connect to the EOS (I don't think). Apple is very protective of the Bluetooth interface and jumping through hoops are required to get it approved. iGlide doesn't connect with Bluetooth AFAIK. Let us know if you get it to work though.