ASW15 vs ASW19

[Senna Van den Bosch]

Hey everyone

I would like to have some opinions on buying a first glider between these two. There are a couple of both for sale that I've seen and my budget would be 10-20k euros.

Would you say the performance difference justifies the price difference? How would they compare at higher speeds and rigging/derigging?

Would the performance of the ASW15 be pretty much the same or within a few % to the Std Libelle, Std Cirrus, ...?

[Michael Opitz]

At 12:19 29 March 2018, Senna Van den Bosch wrote:
>Hey everyone
>
>I would like to have some opinions on buying a first glider between
these
>two. There are a couple of both for sale that I've seen and my
budget would
>be 10-20k euros.
>
>Would you say the performance difference justifies the price
difference?
>How would they compare at higher speeds and rigging/derigging?
>
>Would the performance of the ASW15 be pretty much the same or
within a few
>% to the Std Libelle, Std Cirrus, ...?
>
The -19 is just newer and better. The -15 has balsa wood core
sandwich wings, where the -19 has foam core which will not rot.
There was at least one TM about the balsa sandwich construction
on the -15. Performance of the -15 is similar to STD Cirrus or STD
Libelle. Dive brakes are better than on STD Cirrus because they are
upper and lower. The -19 has only upper, but with the 2 stage mod
(ASW-19B model), they are fine. The -19 has a forward hinged
canopy, where the -15 has the canopy that has to be completely
removed to get out, which is a pain in the rear. There is a -15B
model which has a larger rudder for better yaw control. The -19 has
the new Club Class handicap of 1.0, which will make it a favorite for
Club Class racers because it performs better than that handicap
indicates. You pay for what you get...

RO

[Phil Chidekel]

On Thursday, March 29, 2018 at 10:00:08 AM UTC-4, Michael Opitz wrote:
> At 12:19 29 March 2018, Senna Van den Bosch wrote:
> >Hey everyone
> >
> >I would like to have some opinions on buying a first glider between
> these
> >two. There are a couple of both for sale that I've seen and my
> budget would
> >be 10-20k euros.
> >
> >Would you say the performance difference justifies the price
> difference?
> >How would they compare at higher speeds and rigging/derigging?
> >
> >Would the performance of the ASW15 be pretty much the same or
> within a few
> >% to the Std Libelle, Std Cirrus, ...?
> >
> The -19 is just newer and better. The -15 has balsa wood core
> sandwich wings, where the -19 has foam core which will not rot.
> There was at least one TM about the balsa sandwich construction
> on the -15. Performance of the -15 is similar to STD Cirrus or STD
> Libelle. Dive brakes are better than on STD Cirrus because they are
> upper and lower. The -19 has only upper, but with the 2 stage mod
> (ASW-19B model), they are fine. The -19 has a forward hinged
> canopy, where the -15 has the canopy that has to be completely
> removed to get out, which is a pain in the rear. There is a -15B
> model which has a larger rudder for better yaw control. The -19 has
> the new Club Class handicap of 1.0, which will make it a favorite for
> Club Class racers because it performs better than that handicap
> indicates. You pay for what you get...
>
> RO

I feel somewhat qualified to discuss the qualities on the ASW 15--I have the pleasure of flying XC in one quite regularly.

First off, I find the ASW 15 to be delightful to fly... Its handling qualities are outstanding. The ailerons and rudder are well balanced and responsive, and I have never found it to possess the "twitchiness" that people fear with other all-flying-tailed gliders. It thermals slow, and it out-climbs most of the other gliders I fly with regularly. I fly a straight 15, so it doesn't have the bigger rudder of the "B" models, and if I am flying aggressively, there are moments where I would appreciate another teensy bit of rudder authority. Not a big deal, but I suppose Gerhard Waibel shared my sentiments when he designed the B model. Mike Fadden graciously checked me out in his when I was a sophomore in High School, with most of my other time to that point being in 1-26s and Blaniks. The transition wasn't an issue.

The big spoilers are a totally great--the 15 will land on a literal handkerchief, and there have been tight moments where I have appreciated this. That being said, it has taken me a long time to learn how to land the 15 fully gracefully. It will spot landing easily, but I find the touchdown attitude to be very sensitive: two point attitude is *not quite* fully stalled. It could use a slightly bigger wheel--once again, I must not be the only one who thinks this, as the taller gear was added on the B model.

Assembly is a complete joke--the wings are very light, and almost always go together without any serious jiggling. I think John Bird and I could win a timed rigging contest if given the opportunity--if we try, we can have a 15 assembled, taped, PC-checked, and ready to fly in 15 minutes.

The performance? I would describe it as an honest 30:1 glider, but this has not discouraged me. I have learned a lot from flying something that isn't a super ship, and if flown well, it will keep up with a Discus.

The fully removable canopy is annoying.

I have access to a Pegasus (I know, I know, it's not a -19, but it is close), and honestly, I prefer flying the -15. The 15 is a very honest glider, and I can land it anywhere. The Peg is nice, but it doesn't have *that* much more performance, and it is a bit more of a pain to deal with. Given the ease of rigging the 15 and my comfort level in its characteristics, the choice is easy--it allows me to fly more. Plus, the shark tail is so damned good-looking.

The spar inspection is accomplished at annual every year. Keep it dry and give it the love it needs... But I fly it on the [varying levels of violent] ridges of Central PA, and have never worried about the wings falling off. Knock on wood(en wing spars).

Bottom line: for the money, I would totally buy a clean ASW 15. They are great little gliders.

Looks like a ridge day on Sunday...

Cheers.

Phil Chidekel