SeeYou

[Waveguru]

As soon as my subscription runs out, the program starts acting up. This really ****es me off. I paid for the program and the fact that they sabotage it to get you to purchase the upgrade is very disappointing. If I don't want the "improvements", the program that I paid for should still work. In my opinion, that is a crappy way to do business... Is this the way things are done these days?

Boggs

[Craig Funston[_3_]]

On Tuesday, July 24, 2018 at 6:16:44 PM UTC-7, Waveguru wrote:
> As soon as my subscription runs out, the program starts acting up. This really ****es me off. I paid for the program and the fact that they sabotage it to get you to purchase the upgrade is very disappointing. If I don't want the "improvements", the program that I paid for should still work. In my opinion, that is a crappy way to do business... Is this the way things are done these days?
>
> Boggs

Software is changing and many companies are moving to a "subscription" model. That allows for a revenue stream to support the software and updates. Some positives and some negatives, but that's the way the world is going. It occasionally irritates me, but looking at what it takes to keep a business running I can understand why this has evolved this way.

Things like XCsoar, Tophat, and LK8000 are the product of a dedicated group of volunteers. We should commend those putting in that kind of effort for the good of this community. Likewise we shouldn't begrudge someone trying to make a living off of a very small market segment. Without folks willing to do this we'd be a lot poorer off.

My $0.02

Cheers,
Craig

[Mike C]

On Tuesday, July 24, 2018 at 7:16:44 PM UTC-6, Waveguru wrote:
> As soon as my subscription runs out, the program starts acting up. This really ****es me off. I paid for the program and the fact that they sabotage it to get you to purchase the upgrade is very disappointing. If I don't want the "improvements", the program that I paid for should still work. In my opinion, that is a crappy way to do business... Is this the way things are done these days?
>
> Boggs

Not as polished as SeeYou, but I think they have better maps and do the basics well enough.

https://www.soaringlab.eu/

Mike

[Charlie Quebec]

I still use an old but fully functional version that runs right out of a folder. No install needed.
Software as a service is simply a ripoff.

[Dan Daly[_2_]]

On Tuesday, July 24, 2018 at 11:43:45 PM UTC-4, Charlie Quebec wrote:
> I still use an old but fully functional version that runs right out of a folder. No install needed.
> Software as a service is simply a ripoff.

Mine is a couple of versions out of date, and it still works well. Perhaps you should try to re-install. I have asked for links to older versions, and they supply them with no problem (I lost my hard drive with no back-up). I use Windows 10 Home 64 bit.

[Tango Eight]

On Tuesday, July 24, 2018 at 9:16:44 PM UTC-4, Waveguru wrote:
> As soon as my subscription runs out, the program starts acting up. This really ****es me off. I paid for the program and the fact that they sabotage it to get you to purchase the upgrade is very disappointing. If I don't want the "improvements", the program that I paid for should still work. In my opinion, that is a crappy way to do business... Is this the way things are done these days?
>
> Boggs

naviter has good support. Email 'em.

The only thing that should be subscription related is access to their cloud servers. Everything else should work including map and satellite imagery downloads as needed.

What may have happened is that you (automatically, or inadvertently) updated to a version that you don't have the license to use to since your subscription expired. So it's running in demo mode and shedding features over time (that's a naviter thing). In this event, they can send you a link to the installer for the version you are licensed to run, reinstall, all should be well.

I use v 7.something.

T8

[JS[_5_]]

On Tuesday, July 24, 2018 at 6:16:44 PM UTC-7, Waveguru wrote:
> As soon as my subscription runs out, the program starts acting up. This really ****es me off. I paid for the program and the fact that they sabotage it to get you to purchase the upgrade is very disappointing. If I don't want the "improvements", the program that I paid for should still work. In my opinion, that is a crappy way to do business... Is this the way things are done these days?
>
> Boggs

If you kept the installer file, you can go back to something like version 5..36. It leaves you alone.
I keep 9.1 and 5.36 installed.
Jim

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

JS wrote on 7/25/2018 8:46 AM:
> On Tuesday, July 24, 2018 at 6:16:44 PM UTC-7, Waveguru wrote:
>> As soon as my subscription runs out, the program starts acting up. This really ****es me off. I paid for the program and the fact that they sabotage it to get you to purchase the upgrade is very disappointing. If I don't want the "improvements", the program that I paid for should still work. In my opinion, that is a crappy way to do business... Is this the way things are done these days?
>>
>> Boggs
>
> If you kept the installer file, you can go back to something like version 5..36. It leaves you alone.
> I keep 9.1 and 5.36 installed.
> Jim
>
I stopped updating at version 5.43, when they began the subscription service.
Works fine, but it does nag for a moment at startup.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1

[Paul Remde]

Nick,

Well said!!!

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
________________________

On Thursday, July 26, 2018 at 7:27:00 PM UTC-5, Nick Kennedy wrote:
> I've been using SeeYou from the beginning and I have to say I've never experienced any of the problems Boggs describes. Every few years I pay to upgrade it as I feel I should support those guys for such a awesome bit software that I really enjoy using. And I've got to say they have Always been responsive to questions and suggestions. SeeYou and SeeYou mobile rocks!

[Charlie Quebec]

Will try and dig out the patch to fix the nag screen for you. ;)

[Paul B[_2_]]

On Wednesday, 25 July 2018 11:16:44 UTC+10, Waveguru wrote:
> As soon as my subscription runs out, the program starts acting up. This really ****es me off. I paid for the program and the fact that they sabotage it to get you to purchase the upgrade is very disappointing. If I don't want the "improvements", the program that I paid for should still work. In my opinion, that is a crappy way to do business... Is this the way things are done these days?
>
> Boggs

From Naviter website

"SeeYou license is perpetual and includes one year of free product upgrades from the purchase date, including major version upgrades within one year of purchase. SeeYou license includes also iPhone, iPad and Android versions. Some of the features require current subscription in order to function: SeeYou on iPhone, iPad and Android runs, weather integration and airspace database updates. Note that one SeeYou Subscription covers SeeYou and SeeYou Mobile upgrades if you own both!"

So it would seem to me that for the PC based product you can stop paying subscription and the version that you currently have working will continue to work normally.

Cheers

Paul

[Waveguru]

Well, it never does continue working. It works fine right up to when my subscription runs out. First it starts freezing up while I’m using it, and now none of the maps come up. This happens every year at the end of my paid subscription. I finally pony up and it works fine for another year. This is all a coincidence, eh?

Boggs

[JS[_5_]]

On Tuesday, August 7, 2018 at 7:34:10 PM UTC-7, Waveguru wrote:
> Well, it never does continue working. It works fine right up to when my subscription runs out. First it starts freezing up while I’m using it, and now none of the maps come up. This happens every year at the end of my paid subscription. I finally pony up and it works fine for another year. This is all a coincidence, eh?
>
> Boggs

That is strange.
Version 9.1 on my desktop and 9.2 on the laptop are working beyond subscription.

Are you trying to use satellite images or Meteorology?
If so, deselect them, as access does expire with the subscription.
Jim

[2G]

SeeYou CLEARLY states that it is a subscription service - if your subscription expires you SHOULD NOT expect to get any service. If this is not the case, Naviter, and their distributors, should make it VERY CLEAR what you can expect after your subscription expires. Personally, I WILL NOT subscribe - the cost is just TOO HIGH!

Tom

[Paul B[_2_]]

They do, it is clesrly stayed on their website. The version that you have installed whilst you were on the subscription will continue to work afyer you have stopped your subscription. This actually better then initially planned, where you had to stay on the version used prior to subscription.

Cheers

Paul

[krasw]

I used v3.9 for years without subscription, and then upgraded to v7.1, again using it after subscription expiry for 4 years. Absolutely no problems whatsoever.

[Andy Blackburn[_3_]]

Just for everyone's information, here are the SeeYou licensing terms (below).

For me, $50 per year to get updates for my desktop SeeYou, my iPhone and two Oudies seems like a bargain. It baffles me when people who own gliders that cost well into six figures whine about software (or tows, or any of the infrastructure and services that make the sport work) that cost less than a decent dinner out. These guys work hard to produce pretty high-quality products for a niche sport and the cost isn't out of line with the value provided (at $4-5/month how could it be?). I'd give them the $50 just to make sure there was support available, but that's just me.

Ah, glider pilots.

Andy Blackburn
9B

SeeYou - first time purchase
129 € + VAT*
SeeYou Upgrade Subscription
49 € / year + VAT*

SeeYou license is perpetual and includes one year of free product upgrades from the purchase date, including major version upgrades within one year of purchase. SeeYou license includes also iPhone, iPad and Android versions. Some of the features require current subscription in order to function: SeeYou on iPhone, iPad and Android runs, weather integration and airspace database updates. Note that one SeeYou Subscription covers SeeYou and SeeYou Mobile upgrades if you own both!

________________

On Wednesday, August 8, 2018 at 11:07:27 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:

>Personally, I WILL NOT subscribe - the cost is just TOO HIGH!
>
> Tom

[Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)]

Well......whining about software subscriptions and the like gets you.......
A base that may agree on RAS and other places.
Safer than whining about your other half (think Elaina Bobbitt......SP).

Sad for me, I don't fly enough to get good on a version, new stuff means I am always learning new stuff.....wish some basics could be just brought up.
If I was flying a lot more and current on hardware and software, maybe I would have a valid comment.


Yes, my bad, wish I flew more.......:-(

[Andy Blackburn[_3_]]

On Thursday, August 9, 2018 at 12:38:28 PM UTC-7, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot) wrote:

> Well......whining about software subscriptions and the like gets you.......
> A base that may agree on RAS and other places.
> Safer than whining about your other half (think Elaina Bobbitt......SP).
>


Was that a Haiku?

;-)

[waremark]

I am with Andy Blackburn. The annual update cost is insignificant in relation to what I spend on the sport, I consider that Naviter deserve support, and I certainly want them to keep going with updates and product support. My

Interestingly Flarm and LXNav both continue to provide firmware updates without charge.

I pay a slightly higher sub for Skydemon (excellent European equivalent of Foreflight, Foreflight is entering the European market for the first time this year. They will have a tough job competing with the well established Skydemon).

[Moshe Braner]

On Tuesday, July 24, 2018 at 9:16:44 PM UTC-4, Waveguru wrote:
> As soon as my subscription runs out, the program starts acting up. This really ****es me off. I paid for the program and the fact that they sabotage it to get you to purchase the upgrade is very disappointing. If I don't want the "improvements", the program that I paid for should still work. In my opinion, that is a crappy way to do business... Is this the way things are done these days?
>
> Boggs

What is the behavior of the current version of SeeYou (PC app) if/when the subscription expires? Does it still run? Does it keep the map data it already downloaded stored on the PC? Do maps for new areas still load? Does that differ between "terrain view" and "satellite view"? Where (which server) do the maps load from? Do any other features stop working (other than the use of SeeYou Cloud)?

Same questions about the "Navigator" cell phone app?

[kinsell]

On 3/1/21 10:37 AM, Moshe Braner wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 24, 2018 at 9:16:44 PM UTC-4, Waveguru wrote:
>> As soon as my subscription runs out, the program starts acting up. This really ****es me off. I paid for the program and the fact that they sabotage it to get you to purchase the upgrade is very disappointing. If I don't want the "improvements", the program that I paid for should still work. In my opinion, that is a crappy way to do business... Is this the way things are done these days?
>>
>> Boggs
>
> What is the behavior of the current version of SeeYou (PC app) if/when the subscription expires? Does it still run? Does it keep the map data it already downloaded stored on the PC? Do maps for new areas still load? Does that differ between "terrain view" and "satellite view"? Where (which server) do the maps load from? Do any other features stop working (other than the use of SeeYou Cloud)?
>
> Same questions about the "Navigator" cell phone app?
>

This says you can turn off updates before your subscription expires, and
continue to run as before:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RLDE6GHdV4

[Moshe Braner]

On Monday, March 1, 2021 at 3:53:21 PM UTC-5, kinsell wrote:
> On 3/1/21 10:37 AM, Moshe Braner wrote:
> > On Tuesday, July 24, 2018 at 9:16:44 PM UTC-4, Waveguru wrote:
> >> As soon as my subscription runs out, the program starts acting up. This really ****es me off. I paid for the program and the fact that they sabotage it to get you to purchase the upgrade is very disappointing. If I don't want the "improvements", the program that I paid for should still work. In my opinion, that is a crappy way to do business... Is this the way things are done these days?
> >>
> >> Boggs
> >
> > What is the behavior of the current version of SeeYou (PC app) if/when the subscription expires? Does it still run? Does it keep the map data it already downloaded stored on the PC? Do maps for new areas still load? Does that differ between "terrain view" and "satellite view"? Where (which server) do the maps load from? Do any other features stop working (other than the use of SeeYou Cloud)?
> >
> > Same questions about the "Navigator" cell phone app?
> >
> This says you can turn off updates before your subscription expires, and
> continue to run as before:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RLDE6GHdV4

And what happens if you forget to turn off updates, or if it behaves like most software these days, where "updates" are shoved down your throat no matter what you choose? Anyway I'd love to hear from a normal customer who has actually done this (let the SeeYou subscription expire).

[Dan Daly[_2_]]

On Monday, March 1, 2021 at 4:36:16 PM UTC-5, Moshe Braner wrote:
> On Monday, March 1, 2021 at 3:53:21 PM UTC-5, kinsell wrote:
> > On 3/1/21 10:37 AM, Moshe Braner wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, July 24, 2018 at 9:16:44 PM UTC-4, Waveguru wrote:
> > >> As soon as my subscription runs out, the program starts acting up. This really ****es me off. I paid for the program and the fact that they sabotage it to get you to purchase the upgrade is very disappointing. If I don't want the "improvements", the program that I paid for should still work. In my opinion, that is a crappy way to do business... Is this the way things are done these days?
> > >>
> > >> Boggs
> > >
> > > What is the behavior of the current version of SeeYou (PC app) if/when the subscription expires? Does it still run? Does it keep the map data it already downloaded stored on the PC? Do maps for new areas still load? Does that differ between "terrain view" and "satellite view"? Where (which server) do the maps load from? Do any other features stop working (other than the use of SeeYou Cloud)?
> > >
> > > Same questions about the "Navigator" cell phone app?
> > >
> > This says you can turn off updates before your subscription expires, and
> > continue to run as before:
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RLDE6GHdV4
> And what happens if you forget to turn off updates, or if it behaves like most software these days, where "updates" are shoved down your throat no matter what you choose? Anyway I'd love to hear from a normal customer who has actually done this (let the SeeYou subscription expire).

It still runs, even after years. You do have to keep it updated to receive new features (SkySight integration, etc).

Dan

[Dave Springford]

I don't think I say in the video that you can turn off automatic updates. I think what I said is that you have to ignore all the future update notifications and not upgrade once you are beyond the end date of your annual subscription.

If you don't purchase an annual subscription then the Version of SeeYou currently installed on your PC will continue to run for ever. The only limitation of which I am aware after the expiry of a subscription is that Skysight and topmeteo weather layers will not work.

The annual subscription also gives you access to the phone app SeeYou Navigator and the ability to use SeeYou on Ios.

[kinsell]

On 3/1/21 4:38 PM, Dave Springford wrote:
> I don't think I say in the video that you can turn off automatic updates.
Actually at 4:10 you said to make sure your updates are turned off, if
you want to keep running the existing version. Sounded like you were
using the terms updates and upgrades interchangeably.

[Dave Springford]

As far as I know, there is no ability to turn off the updates, but they are not installed Automatically. They are installed only when you click on the pop-up that appears in the lower right corner when a new version is available.

So, if your subscription is expired - don't click on it, or if you do, let me know and I'll sell you a new subscription : )