IFR w/pax under Single-Pilot/Single Aircraft 135

[Bravo8500]

Anybody know what the limitations are on flying IFR with passengers in
a single-engine under a single-pilot, single-aircraft part 135 cert?
Thanks for any info, I can't glean it from reading part 135.

[[email protected]]

In rec.aviation.owning Bravo8500 > wrote:
> Anybody know what the limitations are on flying IFR with passengers in
> a single-engine under a single-pilot, single-aircraft part 135 cert?
> Thanks for any info, I can't glean it from reading part 135.

Unfortunately, it is not going to happen. The FAA just will not issue
a Part 135 certificate for single-engine/single-pilot IFR with
passengers.

I've even tried to purchase an existing certificate... but the FAA
will also not allow the transfer. :-)

If anyone else has better/more-current information about HOW to
accomplish a Part 135 certificate single-engine/single-pilot IFR and
Night with passengers, please contact me, too!!!!

Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocation!" Eberhard

--
Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jer'at'frii.com WEB http://users.frii.com/jer/
C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider, FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot, BM218 HAM N0FZD, 222 Young Eagles!

[Stan Gosnell]

"Bravo8500" > wrote in
oups.com:

> Anybody know what the limitations are on flying IFR with passengers in
> a single-engine under a single-pilot, single-aircraft part 135 cert?
> Thanks for any info, I can't glean it from reading part 135.

The limitations are that you can't do it. Period.

--
Regards,

Stan

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." B. Franklin

[John Clonts]

"Stan Gosnell" > wrote in message ...
> "Bravo8500" > wrote in
> oups.com:
>
>> Anybody know what the limitations are on flying IFR with passengers in
>> a single-engine under a single-pilot, single-aircraft part 135 cert?
>> Thanks for any info, I can't glean it from reading part 135.
>
> The limitations are that you can't do it. Period.
>

I was thinking that Richard Kaplan did that in his P210, but I haven't seen any posts on usenet from him in
quite a while....yes, here it is (or google for "kaplan 135")...

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.aviation.owning/browse_frm/thread/83de5f804b9b2e85/557b00ccc1c61305?q=kaplan+135+group:rec.aviation.*&_done=%2Fgroups%3Fas_q%3Dkaplan+135%26num%3D10%26s coring%3Dr%26hl%3Den%26ie%3DUTF-8%26as_epq%3D%26as_oq%3D%26as_eq%3D%26as_ugroup%3D rec.aviation.*%26as_usubject%3D%26as_uauthors%3D%2 6lr%3D%26as_drrb%3Dq%26as_qdr%3D%26as_mind%3D1%26a s_minm%3D1%26as_miny%3D1981%26as_maxd%3D3%26as_max m%3D3%26as_maxy%3D2005%26safe%3Doff%26&_doneTitle=Back+to+Search&&d#557b00ccc1c61305

Cheers,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ

[Bravo8500]

Wow, great info. Start out VFR and go from there. I wonder if that's
still the case, hmm. Thanks!

[Mike Rapoport]

I thought that you could do it with a turboprop (PC-12)?

Mike
MU-2

> wrote in message
...
> In rec.aviation.owning Bravo8500 > wrote:
>> Anybody know what the limitations are on flying IFR with passengers in
>> a single-engine under a single-pilot, single-aircraft part 135 cert?
>> Thanks for any info, I can't glean it from reading part 135.
>
> Unfortunately, it is not going to happen. The FAA just will not issue
> a Part 135 certificate for single-engine/single-pilot IFR with
> passengers.
>
> I've even tried to purchase an existing certificate... but the FAA
> will also not allow the transfer. :-)
>
> If anyone else has better/more-current information about HOW to
> accomplish a Part 135 certificate single-engine/single-pilot IFR and
> Night with passengers, please contact me, too!!!!
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocation!" Eberhard
>
> --
> Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
> CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jer'at'frii.com WEB http://users.frii.com/jer/
> C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider, FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
> CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot, BM218 HAM N0FZD, 222 Young Eagles!

[Blanche]

In article >, > wrote:
>In rec.aviation.owning Bravo8500 > wrote:
>> Anybody know what the limitations are on flying IFR with passengers in
>> a single-engine under a single-pilot, single-aircraft part 135 cert?
>> Thanks for any info, I can't glean it from reading part 135.
>
>Unfortunately, it is not going to happen. The FAA just will not issue
>a Part 135 certificate for single-engine/single-pilot IFR with
>passengers.

This seems odd. Can the Pilatus (single engine) be flown single
pilot? Seems to be a candidate for Part 135 use.

I realize 14 CFR 135.4 states explicitly two crewmembers for an
on-demand operation but where is the exclusion of single engine? or
alternatively, the definition that requires 2+ engines? I can't find
it in my copy of the FARs. But then, I'm not suffering from
insomnia, so I'm not reading it closely.....

(*chortle*)

[Bill J]

I think I read that you can do it with dual electrical/vacuum systems

Bravo8500 wrote:

> Anybody know what the limitations are on flying IFR with passengers in
> a single-engine under a single-pilot, single-aircraft part 135 cert?
> Thanks for any info, I can't glean it from reading part 135.
>

[Scott Skylane]

Mike Rapoport wrote:

> I thought that you could do it with a turboprop (PC-12)?
>


There are a couple of outfits here in Alaska that run PC-12's Part 135,
IFR, single pilot.

Happy Flying!
Scott Skylane

[Dude]

"Bravo8500" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Wow, great info. Start out VFR and go from there. I wonder if that's
> still the case, hmm. Thanks!
>

I didn't read the link, but it appears that your FSDO has a lot to say about
it. They have zero downside in saying no, and can screw up their careers if
they approve it and something happens.

Which way will they go? You better be make GOOD buddies with them, or have
some other leverage.

[Jon]

Bravo8500 wrote:
> Anybody know what the limitations are on flying IFR with passengers
in
> a single-engine under a single-pilot, single-aircraft part 135 cert?
> Thanks for any info, I can't glean it from reading part 135.

You can do it with dual electrical/vacuum systems like in the Cirrus
SR22 and others. The other single engines like the Cessna 172/210 can
only be flown IFR with freight.

For airplanes under FAR 135 IFR a SIC is ALWAYS required, now that
being said you may apply for "autopilot authorization" that will let
you use an autopilot in the place of a SIC.

In the case of trying to purchase a 135 Cert, you would need to upgrade
the cert to a full cert, then leave the management team in place,
change the company ownership then over 12 - 18 months you can change
the management team members. You can find the % of the management that
must stay on in the FAR's.

If you have more questions after you read FAR 135 AND FAR 119 feel free
to give me a call @ 270-823-4782

Jon

[Peter R.]

Jon > wrote:

> You can do it with dual electrical/vacuum systems like in the Cirrus
> SR22 and others.

The SR22 has dual vacuum pumps? Or are you saying dual electrical system
and one vacuum pump?

--
Peter













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[Thomas Borchert]

Peter,

> Or are you saying dual electrical system
> and one vacuum pump?
>

He's saying dual electrical, period. Vacuum sucks ;-)

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[[email protected]]

I think Mike is correct... Of course, I was thinking of something
>- I <- could afford to fly. :-) ... A 4-cycle engine. :-)

Thanks Mike!

Jer/

In rec.aviation.ifr Mike Rapoport > wrote:
> I thought that you could do it with a turboprop (PC-12)?

> Mike
> MU-2

> > wrote in message
> ...
> > In rec.aviation.owning Bravo8500 > wrote:
> >> Anybody know what the limitations are on flying IFR with passengers in
> >> a single-engine under a single-pilot, single-aircraft part 135 cert?
> >> Thanks for any info, I can't glean it from reading part 135.
> >
> > Unfortunately, it is not going to happen. The FAA just will not issue
> > a Part 135 certificate for single-engine/single-pilot IFR with
> > passengers.
> >
> > I've even tried to purchase an existing certificate... but the FAA
> > will also not allow the transfer. :-)
> >
> > If anyone else has better/more-current information about HOW to
> > accomplish a Part 135 certificate single-engine/single-pilot IFR and
> > Night with passengers, please contact me, too!!!!
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocation!" Eberhard
> >
> > --
> > Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
> > CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jer'at'frii.com WEB http://users.frii.com/jer/
> > C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider, FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
> > CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot, BM218 HAM N0FZD, 222 Young Eagles!




Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocation!" Eberhard

--
Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jer'at'frii.com WEB http://users.frii.com/jer/
C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider, FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot, BM218 HAM N0FZD, 222 Young Eagles!

[Richard Kaplan]

> wrote in message
...

> Unfortunately, it is not going to happen. The FAA just will not issue
> a Part 135 certificate for single-engine/single-pilot IFR with
> passengers.

I recently held a single-engine/single-pilot day/night known-icing
certificate for my piston Cessna P210 until I chose (for reasons unrelated
to the FAA) to discontinue it -- absolutely that is possible.


--------------------
Richard Kaplan

www.flyimc.com

[Richard Kaplan]

"John Clonts" > wrote in message
...

> I was thinking that Richard Kaplan did that in his P210, but I haven't
> seen any posts on usenet from him in quite a while....yes, here it is (or
> google for "kaplan 135")...

Yes, I did it and it is still permissible.


See FAR 135.163 re: redundant alternator/gyro requirements. There is also
an FAR requiring a 3-axis autopilot if the operations will be single-pilot
and requiring an approved engine trend-monitoring program for single-engine
aircraft. I did all this and had single-pilot, single-engine piston, IFR
night/day known-icing approval.

--------------------
Richard Kaplan

www.flyimc.com

[Richard Kaplan]

> wrote in message
...

> Unfortunately, it is not going to happen. The FAA just will not issue
> a Part 135 certificate for single-engine/single-pilot IFR with
> passengers.

I recently held a single-engine/single-pilot day/night known-icing
certificate for my piston Cessna P210 until I chose (for reasons unrelated
to the FAA) to discontinue it -- absolutely that is possible.


--------------------
Richard Kaplan

www.flyimc.com

[Stan Gosnell]

"Richard Kaplan" > wrote in
news:1110257401.d3fd2076e1b352748b3e4e1081056f91@t eranews:

> Yes, I did it and it is still permissible.
>
> See FAR 135.163 re: redundant alternator/gyro requirements. There is
> also an FAR requiring a 3-axis autopilot if the operations will be
> single-pilot and requiring an approved engine trend-monitoring program
> for single-engine aircraft. I did all this and had single-pilot,
> single-engine piston, IFR night/day known-icing approval.

You're right, I was thinking of 10 or more pax, for some reason.

--
Regards,

Stan

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." B. Franklin

[Robert M. Gary]

Legally, you can do it with a proper autopilot ( per 135), practically,
good luck finding insurance.

[C J Campbell]

"Bravo8500" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Anybody know what the limitations are on flying IFR with passengers in
> a single-engine under a single-pilot, single-aircraft part 135 cert?
> Thanks for any info, I can't glean it from reading part 135.
>

Sure. Contrary to some others' statements, it is possible and there are
people in this area who do it.

The aircraft must have backup vacuum and electrical systems. For
single-pilot operations the aircraft must have a fully operational autopilot
with altitude control. The new Cessnas meet all the requirements except for
the backup electrical system (the autopilot is an option). The newest Nav
III packages have a battery backup, but it does not last long enough to meet
FAA single engine IFR requirements. If you have an older plane it will need
a backup vacuum system as well. PAVCO offers an STC for a full battery
backup, which also works well for float operations.

We can do all the necessary mods on your aircraft and provide training.
Contact Mike Pickett or Dave Stahl at http://www.flypavco.com/. Dave
invented this particular battery STC, so he should be able to answer any
questions you have about it.

[C J Campbell]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Legally, you can do it with a proper autopilot ( per 135), practically,
> good luck finding insurance.
>

The insurance problem has nothing to do with IFR operations. Your best bet
is to go naked -- carry minimum liability and don't cover the hull. Hull
alone is usually more than half the cost of the insurance -- oddly, the
liability is not much more than it is for private aviation. It is the only
way you have any chance for profitability at all.