Suggestions for Organizing Aircraft Documents?

[CDP_bayarea]

Pending completion of the pre-buy/annual inspections I'm about to
become 1/2 owner of a Cherokee. My partner is the current owner of the
aircraft and she also owns an aerobatic plane. My guess is that I will
end up taking over the record keeping etc. on the plane. Mainly
because I want to.

I got the chance yesterday to look over, briefly, the aircraft records.
Now this is my first purchase and I'm a student pilot so I had no idea
how they should be organized. However my impression is that they
really weren't. And I certainly wouldn't want to sit down with the DPE
and "prove" to him the aircraft was airworthy.

As part of the inspections the IA / A&P supervisor has agreed to go
over the docs with me. But I was hoping for some suggestions on how
best to organize and maintain these records. I'm sure I'll find out if
it is all there, but I'm a bit anal about keeping things organized.

Any good record organizing products out there that I should consider
buying?

Recommended books?

Tricks used buy veteran owners on R.A.O ??

All are welcome.

Chris

[Blanche]

I have a large (actually 2) 3-ring binders that contain every bill and
work order that I could find. They're organized into Avionics,
Engine, Structure, ADs, SBs. Every oil sample test (and bill) is
in the Engine section. All the annual inspections are in their
own section. Does this mean cross-reference? Possibly, but I'm
focusing on the billing. I've been scanning the log books (slowly)
and as one book is finished, it goes to the safe deposit box along with
one copy of the logbook on CD. The other copy of the CD is at home
in one of the 3-ring binders. I also got the FAA records on CD,
made a copy of that, also in the safe deposit book. Since the
work orders all have the date on them, it's easy to match to the
logbook entry.

You'll end up organizing in way that makes sense and is practical for
you, since it's your aircraft. Have fun! It's the perfect activity for
one of those rotten thunderstorm days when you can't go fly.

[Jon A.]

For any loose papers that are pertinent to the records, I just use a
plastic sheet protector. There are a few commercial logging systems
out there for the AD's.

On 6 Mar 2005 09:54:29 -0800, "CDP_bayarea" >
wrote:

>Pending completion of the pre-buy/annual inspections I'm about to
>become 1/2 owner of a Cherokee. My partner is the current owner of the
>aircraft and she also owns an aerobatic plane. My guess is that I will
>end up taking over the record keeping etc. on the plane. Mainly
>because I want to.
>
>I got the chance yesterday to look over, briefly, the aircraft records.
> Now this is my first purchase and I'm a student pilot so I had no idea
>how they should be organized. However my impression is that they
>really weren't. And I certainly wouldn't want to sit down with the DPE
>and "prove" to him the aircraft was airworthy.
>
>As part of the inspections the IA / A&P supervisor has agreed to go
>over the docs with me. But I was hoping for some suggestions on how
>best to organize and maintain these records. I'm sure I'll find out if
>it is all there, but I'm a bit anal about keeping things organized.
>
>Any good record organizing products out there that I should consider
>buying?
>
>Recommended books?
>
>Tricks used buy veteran owners on R.A.O ??
>
>All are welcome.
>
>Chris

[George Patterson]

CDP_bayarea wrote:
>
> Any good record organizing products out there that I should consider
> buying?

AD Log. Puts everything in a binder. There's a separate page for each AD
(whether applicable or not) and sections for everything else you might have.
Costs about $100 to set up and $25 each year after that.

George Patterson
I prefer Heaven for climate but Hell for company.

[Blanche]

Personally, I was underwhelmed by ADLog. Most of the ADs sent to me
were not applicable and more than half the ADs that were applicable
did not appear. With all the ADs now on the FAA website at
airweb.faa.gov, I'm not sure ADLog is that cost effective nor
effective in general.

Besides, it's the IA's responsibility to ensure all the ADs are
tracked. My efforts are a convenience to him but if he doesn't
verify everything, then he's not doing his job properly.

I did like the ADLog dividers and am using them in the big binders.

Another action I took (during really bad weather) was to start
transcribing all the log books (yes, I do get that bored at times!)
into a spreadsheet (or you can use your favorite database) so that
I can do really easy searches. For example, to find out when the
brakes were last replaced...Or the landing light replaced. Much
easier than searching thru handwritten log books. And those logs
from before 1990 were in really bad handwritting. Often illegible...

[BTIZ]

> Besides, it's the IA's responsibility to ensure all the ADs are
> tracked. My efforts are a convenience to him but if he doesn't
> verify everything, then he's not doing his job properly.
>

Actually there have been cases where the pilot or owner was cited by the FAA
for not making sure that all ADs were complied with. There have been cases
were the owner/pilot was cited because the IA did not make the proper log
book entry.

The FARs state that the owner/operator is responsible to determine
airworthiness, not the IA.

I know, you pay the IA to do a job, but if he does not log it correctly,
then it's the owner or pilot that takes the hit.

BT

[Doug]

I have taken a 3 ring binder and have the mechanic give me a sticky
with the work description on it. I then glue this to one thin piece of
paper and it goes in a glassene envelope in the 3 ring binder. I don't
keep seperate engine logs or aircraft logs, but if I think it is
relevant to both I have the mechanic give me two copies. Things are
NEAT, copiable, sequencial and if there is a mistake, correcting it is
not messy. With logs, neatness counts. I don't keep receipts and I
don't log what doesn't need to be logged.

If I were buying an airplane, I'd take the old logs, put them in the
vault, and start new ones with the above method.

Also remember, logs are valuable. I don't let a mechanic keep them
overnight in his file cabinet. Too much at risk, no receipt, if he lost
them he could just say he never had them.

[George Patterson]

Blanche wrote:
>
> Personally, I was underwhelmed by ADLog. Most of the ADs sent to me
> were not applicable and more than half the ADs that were applicable
> did not appear.

The inspectors in this area want to see all of those inapplicable ADs with a
note by the IA that they are inapplicable and the reason why they are. I would
agree that there's no excuse for the company's failure to send out ADs that are
applicable to the engine or airframe (though they can't be expected to know what
extra equipment you might have added via STC).

> Besides, it's the IA's responsibility to ensure all the ADs are
> tracked. My efforts are a convenience to him but if he doesn't
> verify everything, then he's not doing his job properly.

ADlog makes his job much easier and saves about an hour of his time at annual.
That more than pays for the yearly cost of the system.

George Patterson
I prefer Heaven for climate but Hell for company.

[Blanche]

BTIZ > wrote:
>> Besides, it's the IA's responsibility to ensure all the ADs are
>> tracked. My efforts are a convenience to him but if he doesn't
>> verify everything, then he's not doing his job properly.
>>
>
>Actually there have been cases where the pilot or owner was cited by the FAA
>for not making sure that all ADs were complied with. There have been cases
>were the owner/pilot was cited because the IA did not make the proper log
>book entry.
>
>The FARs state that the owner/operator is responsible to determine
>airworthiness, not the IA.
>
>I know, you pay the IA to do a job, but if he does not log it correctly,
>then it's the owner or pilot that takes the hit.

Which is why I use the FAA website instead of ADlog. If I relied only
on ADlog, 70% of the applicable ADs would be missed.

[Blanche]

George Patterson > wrote:
>
>Blanche wrote:
>>
>> Personally, I was underwhelmed by ADLog. Most of the ADs sent to me
>> were not applicable and more than half the ADs that were applicable
>> did not appear.
>
>The inspectors in this area want to see all of those inapplicable ADs with a
>note by the IA that they are inapplicable and the reason why they are. I would
>agree that there's no excuse for the company's failure to send out ADs that are
>applicable to the engine or airframe (though they can't be expected to know what
>extra equipment you might have added via STC).
>
>> Besides, it's the IA's responsibility to ensure all the ADs are
>> tracked. My efforts are a convenience to him but if he doesn't
>> verify everything, then he's not doing his job properly.
>
>ADlog makes his job much easier and saves about an hour of his time at annual.
>That more than pays for the yearly cost of the system.

I agree that the inapplicable ADs need to be tracked. But when most
of the applicable ADs were never identified by ADlog, then I have
very little confidence in the product. And far too many inapplicable
ADs were not identified, either.

As I said, I was underwhelmed. I took the info that ADlog sent me,
went to the FAA website and started cross-referencing to verify
everything. That's when I discover far too many discrepancies for
me to have a high level of confidence.

My experience. Others really like it. I used the service for one
year based on the enthusiasm of someone who owns an aircraft and I
respect. I gave it a try. I didn't like it. But at least I tried
the product.