Question of Location...

[Robbie S.]

I am a student pilot with about 60 hours starting out on x-country work
right now. I recently bought a C182 Skylane and decided to keep it at an
airport that is 18 NM from my training airport for the simple reason that
the monthly cost of the hanger rental was $155 cheaper. I asked my CFI to
let me know if I could use that aiport as the satellite airport so I could
fly solo from the satellite airport to my training airport, pick up my CFI,
do my dual/solo training and then bring the 182 back to its home. My CFI
informed me that the regs require that I leave and come back to the primary
training airport, so either I move my plane to his aiport or use one of the
flight schools airplanes to do my trianing.

He also presented an option, that he would drive in his car to my C182's
airport, then I fly dual from there to the primary training aiport, drop him
there and then do my x-country or other things, then pick him up again and
take him to my plane's airport, from where he would drive back to the
training airport...ad nauseum....

This whole scenario sounds absurd and illogical to me. I do have the option
of switching flight schools to where my plane is located. I know a lot of
people in this forum have a very in-depth knowledge of the regs.... please
advise what would be the best course of action under this scenario.

Thank you.

....Robbie.

[Maule Driver]

I'll let others answer the regs question.

Why not self-manage this stage of your training by using your local
school for the CC work but otherwise continuing with your regular CFI
thru the checkride. A little cooperation will be required but your
reasons are clear cut. Both FBOs should be happy to have another active
pilot/owner in the community. You will gain the fresh perspective of a
different CFI and flight school at the expense of continuity and
familiarity. Fact is, once licensed, you'll be managing all aspects of
your continued training.

The school(s) or CFI may protest but it's not like you have any
guarantee either will be with you tomorrow. in fact, it sounds like you
have been quite lucky in finding a school and CFI that have served you
well and, wonders of wonders, stayed around long enough to see you thru
the entire PP training process. Many are not so lucky.


Robbie S. wrote:
> I am a student pilot with about 60 hours starting out on x-country work
> right now. I recently bought a C182 Skylane and decided to keep it at an
> airport that is 18 NM from my training airport for the simple reason that
> the monthly cost of the hanger rental was $155 cheaper. I asked my CFI to
> let me know if I could use that aiport as the satellite airport so I could
> fly solo from the satellite airport to my training airport, pick up my CFI,
> do my dual/solo training and then bring the 182 back to its home. My CFI
> informed me that the regs require that I leave and come back to the primary
> training airport, so either I move my plane to his aiport or use one of the
> flight schools airplanes to do my trianing.
>
> He also presented an option, that he would drive in his car to my C182's
> airport, then I fly dual from there to the primary training aiport, drop him
> there and then do my x-country or other things, then pick him up again and
> take him to my plane's airport, from where he would drive back to the
> training airport...ad nauseum....
>
> This whole scenario sounds absurd and illogical to me. I do have the option
> of switching flight schools to where my plane is located. I know a lot of
> people in this forum have a very in-depth knowledge of the regs.... please
> advise what would be the best course of action under this scenario.
>
> Thank you.
>
> ...Robbie.
>
>

[Blanche]

I bought a cherokee while a student (and after solo) which was hangared
someplace other than where I was taking lessons (10 min flight). The
CFI drove over to my hangar for the first few lessons until he and
I were both comfortable with the cherokee. Once
the CFI had solo'd me in the cherokee, there was no problem flying over
to the other airport to pick him up.

It may be a school policy. Either way, ask him to show you the
regs or policy in the FARs.

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article >,
Blanche > wrote:

> I bought a cherokee while a student (and after solo) which was hangared
> someplace other than where I was taking lessons (10 min flight). The
> CFI drove over to my hangar for the first few lessons until he and
> I were both comfortable with the cherokee. Once
> the CFI had solo'd me in the cherokee, there was no problem flying over
> to the other airport to pick him up.
>
> It may be a school policy. Either way, ask him to show you the
> regs or policy in the FARs.



It sounds as if the CFI is pulling your leg. Get an "old pro" for a CFI
and forget the flight school.

[[email protected]]

Robbie S. > wrote:
> I am a student pilot with about 60 hours starting out on x-country work
> right now. I recently bought a C182 Skylane and decided to keep it at an
> airport that is 18 NM from my training airport for the simple reason that
> the monthly cost of the hanger rental was $155 cheaper. I asked my CFI to
> let me know if I could use that aiport as the satellite airport so I could
> fly solo from the satellite airport to my training airport, pick up my CFI,
> do my dual/solo training and then bring the 182 back to its home. My CFI
> informed me that the regs require that I leave and come back to the primary
> training airport, so either I move my plane to his aiport or use one of the
> flight schools airplanes to do my trianing.

> He also presented an option, that he would drive in his car to my C182's
> airport, then I fly dual from there to the primary training aiport, drop him
> there and then do my x-country or other things, then pick him up again and
> take him to my plane's airport, from where he would drive back to the
> training airport...ad nauseum....

> This whole scenario sounds absurd and illogical to me. I do have the option
> of switching flight schools to where my plane is located. I know a lot of
> people in this forum have a very in-depth knowledge of the regs.... please
> advise what would be the best course of action under this scenario.

> Thank you.

> ...Robbie.

I'll not pretend to know the regs, but I do know the consequences of
changing CFIs having gone through 4 to get to the check ride.

Each new CFI is most likely going to run you through stuff you've already
done to ensure him/her self you are ready for new stuff.

If you are where you should be, this will be a giant waste of time and
money doing review of stuff you already know.

If you are ready for your solo cross countries you are almost at the end
of training and if I were in your situation I would do whatever it takes
to keep the current CFI and take the check ride ASAP.

For the curious:

CFI 1: My work hours changed to hours incompatible with the CFI's work
hours.

CFI 2: Developed health and personal problems and stopped instructing.

CFI 3: Got a commercial pilot job.

On the minus side, on the day of the check ride, 113.5 hours total,
19.3 cross country, 92.3 dual.

On the plus side, the examiner cut it short (my first thought was, crap
what did I screw up?), said to head back to the airport and then said
congratulations.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove -spam-sux to reply.

[Colin W Kingsbury]

"Robbie S." > wrote in message
...
>
> He also presented an option, that he would drive in his car to my C182's
> airport, then I fly dual from there to the primary training aiport, drop
him
> there and then do my x-country or other things, then pick him up again and
> take him to my plane's airport, from where he would drive back to the
> training airport...ad nauseum....
>

I think you need to check to make sure both of your legs are still firmly
attached.

Your CFI can sign you off for unsupervised solo in the local area- up to
25NM radius of your home field, to the locations and under Wx conditions as
specified in the logbook endorsement. So you drive out to your home field,
fly to his base 18NM away, fly together, and then you go back home. You keep
your plane where you prefer and your CFI doesn't have to drive anywhere just
for you.

Guys, am I missing something here?

[[email protected]]

Colin W Kingsbury > wrote:

> "Robbie S." > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > He also presented an option, that he would drive in his car to my C182's
> > airport, then I fly dual from there to the primary training aiport, drop
> him
> > there and then do my x-country or other things, then pick him up again and
> > take him to my plane's airport, from where he would drive back to the
> > training airport...ad nauseum....
> >

> I think you need to check to make sure both of your legs are still firmly
> attached.

> Your CFI can sign you off for unsupervised solo in the local area- up to
> 25NM radius of your home field, to the locations and under Wx conditions as
> specified in the logbook endorsement. So you drive out to your home field,
> fly to his base 18NM away, fly together, and then you go back home. You keep
> your plane where you prefer and your CFI doesn't have to drive anywhere just
> for you.

> Guys, am I missing something here?

The local FBO SOP.

Where I rent, they require 60 days currency in an aircraft or go up with a
CFI for some touch and goes.

Time in a 182 counts for a 172 but not for a Piper and Piper time doesn't
count for any Cessna time for example.

FBOs often have more restrictive rules than the FAA.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove -spam-sux to reply.

[kontiki]

Colin W Kingsbury wrote:
> Your CFI can sign you off for unsupervised solo in the local area- up to
> 25NM radius of your home field, to the locations and under Wx conditions as
> specified in the logbook endorsement. So you drive out to your home field,
> fly to his base 18NM away, fly together, and then you go back home. You keep
> your plane where you prefer and your CFI doesn't have to drive anywhere just
> for you.
>
> Guys, am I missing something here?

No, you are correct. But maybe the CFI feels uncomfortable about signing him
off to do that for whatever reason.

[Robbie S.]

>
> No, you are correct. But maybe the CFI feels uncomfortable about signing
> him
> off to do that for whatever reason.
>

I specifically asked him that question. He does not have a problem if I go
from his home field to my plane's home field, but not the other way round.
He made some reference to part 61 and I have been scouring it ever since and
have found nothing specific. My CFI had also alluded to some FBO policy
that I am going to pursue starting today to find out what, if anything,
would cause this restriction. At the very least, I am getting to read every
word of part 61.... may help in my check ride !

....Robbie.

[Colin W Kingsbury]

"Robbie S." > wrote in message
...
>
> >
> > No, you are correct. But maybe the CFI feels uncomfortable about signing
> > him
> > off to do that for whatever reason.

If he's willing (i) to sign you off for unsupervised and (ii) to sign you
off to your home field, then logically there should be no reason to not
allow you to base yourself there. It's certainly not in the regs.

>
> I specifically asked him that question. He does not have a problem if I
go
> from his home field to my plane's home field, but not the other way round.
> He made some reference to part 61 and I have been scouring it ever since
and
> have found nothing specific. My CFI had also alluded to some FBO policy

"Err, umh, err, ahhh... it's just policy." Right. I wouldn't be shocked if
it's in their insurance but I'd make them prove it. I'd also take a ride
with the FBO at your home base and see how they feel. If you're where you're
at, they might be able to sign you off pretty quickly and that would solve
your problem. Besides, it's probably worth your building a relationship with
them.

-cwk.

[NW_PILOT]

"Robbie S." > wrote in message
...
> I am a student pilot with about 60 hours starting out on x-country work
> right now. I recently bought a C182 Skylane and decided to keep it at an
> airport that is 18 NM from my training airport for the simple reason that
> the monthly cost of the hanger rental was $155 cheaper. I asked my CFI to
> let me know if I could use that aiport as the satellite airport so I could
> fly solo from the satellite airport to my training airport, pick up my
CFI,
> do my dual/solo training and then bring the 182 back to its home. My CFI
> informed me that the regs require that I leave and come back to the
primary
> training airport, so either I move my plane to his aiport or use one of
the
> flight schools airplanes to do my trianing.
>
> He also presented an option, that he would drive in his car to my C182's
> airport, then I fly dual from there to the primary training aiport, drop
him
> there and then do my x-country or other things, then pick him up again and
> take him to my plane's airport, from where he would drive back to the
> training airport...ad nauseum....
>
> This whole scenario sounds absurd and illogical to me. I do have the
option
> of switching flight schools to where my plane is located. I know a lot of
> people in this forum have a very in-depth knowledge of the regs.... please
> advise what would be the best course of action under this scenario.
>
> Thank you.
>
> ...Robbie.

Robbie, ask your instructor to show you the fars, if he cannot and still
refuses to fly with you out of that airport dump him and go with someone
local will save you money & time in the long run.

When I did my private, all that was required for me to solo out of another
airport is my instructor to do a flight from 1 airport to the other land and
fly back and endorsed me for another airport. It dont have to be your
primarry instructor either I think it has to be within 25 NM. If I am wrong
someone please correct me thanks.

[Robert M. Gary]

Your CFI can sign you off to fly back and forth between your airport
and his. You only need a solo sign off and a sign off for the repeated.
You DO NOT need cross country training because of the close proximity.
I'm not sure what your CFI is concerned with.

I teach out of a non-tower airport and always sign my soloed students
off for solo flight to a local controlled field 10 nm North. That way
they can practice going somewhere close and talking to the tower etc.
There is no reason for a solo'd student to not be able to make such
short trips by themselves.
-Robert, CFI

[Robert M. Gary]

Sounds easy to me.

-Robert, CFI

[Robert M. Gary]

I can't imagine what he may be concerned with. If you are flying your
own plane, what does the FBO have to do with it? Under part 61 you
don't need an FBO, just a CFI and a student (and airplane).

-Robert, CFI

[George Patterson]

"Robbie S." wrote:
>
> My CFI
> informed me that the regs require that I leave and come back to the primary
> training airport, so either I move my plane to his aiport or use one of the
> flight schools airplanes to do my trianing.

Part 61.93 section (a) states that you have to abide by all the regs in that
section if you are making a solo flight from one airport to the other. There are
certain exceptions that are defined in part (b). Part 61.93(b)(2) states that
you may make repeated flights to and from another airport if it is within 50 nm
if your instructor has given you adequate training and signed you off for these
flights. This paragraph exempts you from the requirement that the isntructor
sign you off for each flight -- a single sign off will do. The section, in
conjunction with part 61.87, describes in detail what training must be given and
what the signoff consists of.

Here's a possible sticking point, however. Part 61.93(d) states that the
instructor must check your cross-country planning and review the weather and
verify that the flight can be completed VFR. Perhaps this poses a problem for
your CFI. Seems to me that, since the flight is the same every time, your
preflight planning need only be checked once. Also seems to me that he can check
the weather adequately from 20 miles away. Perhaps he does not agree.

George Patterson
I prefer Heaven for climate but Hell for company.

[Mike Spera]

If that is in the regs, then my entire instrument training is invalid. I
had 5 different instructors at 3 different airports. More likely this is
the FBO owner trying to drive you to use his/her airplanes.

I do know that many insurance policies held by FBOs who do training end
up requiring the student/owner to pay an insurance surcharge to use
their own plane and the FBO's instructor. I remember it being about
$4-5/hr., but that was 11 years ago.

Tell the instructor to tell his/her boss that they have a choice. They
can get revenue from you to provide the instructor only, or they can get
nothing when you take your business to your "preferred" airport.

Good Luck,
Mike

Robbie S. wrote:
> I am a student pilot with about 60 hours starting out on x-country work
> right now. I recently bought a C182 Skylane and decided to keep it at an
> airport that is 18 NM from my training airport for the simple reason that
> the monthly cost of the hanger rental was $155 cheaper. I asked my CFI to
> let me know if I could use that aiport as the satellite airport so I could
> fly solo from the satellite airport to my training airport, pick up my CFI,
> do my dual/solo training and then bring the 182 back to its home. My CFI
> informed me that the regs require that I leave and come back to the primary
> training airport, so either I move my plane to his aiport or use one of the
> flight schools airplanes to do my trianing.
>
> He also presented an option, that he would drive in his car to my C182's
> airport, then I fly dual from there to the primary training aiport, drop him
> there and then do my x-country or other things, then pick him up again and
> take him to my plane's airport, from where he would drive back to the
> training airport...ad nauseum....
>
> This whole scenario sounds absurd and illogical to me. I do have the option
> of switching flight schools to where my plane is located. I know a lot of
> people in this forum have a very in-depth knowledge of the regs.... please
> advise what would be the best course of action under this scenario.
>
> Thank you.
>
> ...Robbie.
>
>

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