Flying Holiday in Europe

[Udo Rumpf]

I have this notion, to fly my glider on an extended flying holiday in
Europe.
I would like to find out if it is possible to fly a registered, licensed
home built
experimental glider in Europe. Who would I have to contact in Europe to
find out?
Regards
Udo

[Stefan]

Udo Rumpf wrote:

> Who would I have to contact in Europe to find out?

The FOCA of the country in which you intend to fly. If nothing else, you
will be required to have a liability insurance for the glider.

Stefan

[Charles Yeates]

Udo

When we took our car and glider in trailer to Europe, all we had to do
was get European liability insurance coverage. This was handled by the
broker in port of arrival.

Udo Rumpf wrote:
> I have this notion, to fly my glider on an extended flying holiday in
> Europe.
> I would like to find out if it is possible to fly a registered, licensed
> home built
> experimental glider in Europe. Who would I have to contact in Europe to
> find out?
> Regards
> Udo

--
Charles Yeates

Swidnik PW-6U & PW-5
http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/yeatesc/world.html

[Udo Rumpf]

Charles,
did you take an experimental over there?
Udo


"Charles Yeates" > wrote in message
...
> Udo
>
> When we took our car and glider in trailer to Europe, all we had to do was
> get European liability insurance coverage. This was handled by the broker
> in port of arrival.
>
> Udo Rumpf wrote:
>> I have this notion, to fly my glider on an extended flying holiday in
>> Europe.
>> I would like to find out if it is possible to fly a registered, licensed
>> home built
>> experimental glider in Europe. Who would I have to contact in Europe to
>> find out?
>> Regards
>> Udo
>
> --
> Charles Yeates
>
> Swidnik PW-6U & PW-5
> http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/yeatesc/world.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Udo Rumpf]

I would want to fly in up to a dozen countries.
I would like a European central office that would handle or answer
the questions. "The glider would be experimental"

Udo

"Stefan" > wrote in message
...
> Udo Rumpf wrote:
>
>> Who would I have to contact in Europe to find out?
>
> The FOCA of the country in which you intend to fly. If nothing else, you
> will be required to have a liability insurance for the glider.
>
> Stefan

[Michael Clarke]

At 20:31 22 March 2005, Udo Rumpf wrote:
>
>I would want to fly in up to a dozen countries.
>I would like a European central office that would handle
>or answer
>the questions. 'The glider would be experimental'
>
>Udo
>
>'Stefan' wrote in message
...
>> Udo Rumpf wrote:
>>
>>> Who would I have to contact in Europe to find out?
>>
>> The FOCA of the country in which you intend to fly.
>>If nothing else, you
>> will be required to have a liability insurance for
>>the glider.
>>
>> Stefan
>
>
Udo,

You will find that Europe consists of lots of little
countries that are different from each other with their
own languages and their own laws. Us glider pilots
tend to fight against having one ruling body for the
whole land mass, imposing a lowest common denominator
of the worst of all the rules on all of us.

I know that is a pain, but that is why we like it.

MC

[Udo Rumpf]

> Udo,
>
> You will find that Europe consists of lots of little
> countries that are different from each other with their
> own languages and their own laws. Us glider pilots
> tend to fight against having one ruling body for the
> whole land mass, imposing a lowest common denominator
> of the worst of all the rules on all of us.
>
> I know that is a pain, but that is why we like it.
>
> MC

Mike,
do you know of a country in Europe that would allow an Experimental
home built glider to fly there. Can I assume if that were the case
I could then fly in other European countries.
Here in Canada we can take our experimental
glider to the USA. All it takes is an annual notification to the FAA,
that you are planning to fly in the USA.
Udo

[André Somers]

Udo Rumpf wrote:


> I would want to fly in up to a dozen countries.
> I would like a European central office that would handle or answer
> the questions. "The glider would be experimental"

I'm sorry to disapoint you, but there is no such central body. Europe isn't
a single country (yet). I fear that it might be quite complicated due to
the experimental status of the machine.

To make a start at the organisations you'll need to get in touch with:

-Netherlands: Ministerie van Verkeer en Waterstaat, Inspectie Verkeer en
Waterstaat, Divisie luchtvaart (Civil Aviation Authorities)
-Germany: Luftfahrt Bundesambt (LBA)
-Great Brittain: Brittish Gliding Association (BGA) I think...

Maybe others can append the relevant authorities for other countries?

André

For advice, maybe you can contact the KNVvL (Royal Dutch Aeronautical
Association) in The Hague, section Gliding ). The Civil
Aviation Authorities can be reached via email on

[Stefan]

Udo Rumpf wrote:

> I would want to fly in up to a dozen countries.
> I would like a European central office that would handle or answer
> the questions.

There is no such thing as an European central office for gliders. Glider
regulations are strictly national.

That said, if your glider has an N registration and you have an US
license, I strongly believe that you can fly wherever you want without
any additional paper work. But you *will* need a liability insurance.
(Order of magnitude of 2 million Euros or something like this.)

Your best bet is really to contact the FOCAs of every country you want
to fly in. They tend to be helpful.

Stefan

[Stefan]

André Somers wrote:

> Maybe others can append the relevant authorities for other countries?

Germany: http://www.lba.de/
France: http://www.dgac.fr/
Switzerland: http://www.aviation.admin.ch/
Spain: http://ais.aena.es/
Poland: http://www.ais.pata.pl/
Austria: http://www.bmvit.gv.at/

You'll find phone numbers and e-mail addresses there, if you search for
them.

Stefan

[Michael Clarke]

At 23:00 22 March 2005, Stefan wrote:
>André Somers wrote:
>
>> Maybe others can append the relevant authorities for
>>other countries?
>
>Germany: http://www.lba.de/
>France: http://www.dgac.fr/
>Switzerland: http://www.aviation.admin.ch/
>Spain: http://ais.aena.es/
>Poland: http://www.ais.pata.pl/
>Austria: http://www.bmvit.gv.at/
>
>You'll find phone numbers and e-mail addresses there,
>if you search for
>them.
>
>Stefan
>

Udo,

Have a look at this for some pointers:

http://www.aircross.co.uk/bgaladder/flyfrance.htm

I think it would be dangerous to assume that a US glider
registered under any restricted (i.e. experimental)
category is going to be easily accepted in most countries
in Europe.

Taking into account that and the complexity of airspace
in Europe, you might want to consider the merits of
flying at various clubs in Europe using club machines.
Almost all of these are members' clubs and welcome
guests. Only a very few are commercial operations,
for example the European Soaring Club in Spain:

http://www.soaringclub.com/

I am sure you would find the clubs in Europe an interesting
experience.

MC

[Stefan]

Michael Clarke wrote:

> Taking into account that and the complexity of airspace
> in Europe, you might want to consider the merits of
> flying at various clubs in Europe using club machines.
> Almost all of these are members' clubs and welcome
> guests.

Whether you want to bring your own glider or not, you'll have to contact
the clubs anyway. Most glider sites are operated by clubs. They usually
welcome guests, but they all have their rules. You can't just show up
and hire a tow.

Stefan

[Udo Rumpf]

> http://www.aircross.co.uk/bgaladder/flyfrance.htm
>
> I think it would be dangerous to assume that a US glider
> registered under any restricted (i.e. experimental)
> category is going to be easily accepted in most countries
> in Europe.
>
> Taking into account that and the complexity of airspace
> in Europe, you might want to consider the merits of
> flying at various clubs in Europe using club machines.
> Almost all of these are members' clubs and welcome
> guests. Only a very few are commercial operations,
> for example the European Soaring Club in Spain:
>
> http://www.soaringclub.com/
>
> I am sure you would find the clubs in Europe an interesting
> experience.
>
> MC

Mike,
I fly out of Canada and most of my flying is done in the US.
At the moment I fly an ASW24 but the idea of a home built flying
at a contests in Europe intrigues me. I would like to start in the
very early Spring in Spain driving with an RV from one club to
an other following the season right on up to Sweden and Finland ,
on the return the same thing, through the eastern part of Europe
and ending in the fall somewhere in Italy.
I would use the Homebuilt as an entrée and conversation piece at
the various clubs which would help break the ice socially.
I am saving already and my new project should be flyable in two
years, maybe three. At the moment it is a dream, but planning and
execution may just make the dream come true.
Regards
Udo

[F.L. Whiteley]

"Udo Rumpf" > wrote in message
.. .
> I have this notion, to fly my glider on an extended flying holiday in
> Europe.
> I would like to find out if it is possible to fly a registered, licensed
> home built
> experimental glider in Europe. Who would I have to contact in Europe to
> find out?
> Regards
> Udo
>
Does your glider have an acceptable hook? That is, TOST and nose (at least
for Germany) for aero tow I suspect. At least don't expect to fly from a
chain link and non-standard release. That might be a local show stopper.

Liability insurance will be required.

Current annual should suffice for the glider as they have no governance over
N-registered gliders, other than it comply with airworthiness certifications
in the home country. IIRC, there may be a time limit to how long it might
remain in any one country without additional compliance, however, this is
something like a year or so, or it was when I was over there. You will
require a site check at most locations, so budget for that.

Isn't a physical required to fly on much of the continent now. Certainly
France will require one. Since that's not necessary in the US, you might
want to get a current class III if you don't have one.

Be sure to turn the proper direction off tow (variable).

Although the rules may seem stringent, at least in the UK they have some
local authority to assess or can get it sorted.

Since many Euro built gliders only possess an experimental ticket in the US,
I doubt that anything other than a current airworthiness would matter.
IIRC, there are some HP designs that have been built and operated in Europe,
but no telling where or whether that's currently happening.

Will be interesting to know what you find out what you discover.

Frank Whiteley

[[email protected]]

In the summer of 1999 I took my Lithuanian registered Genesis 2
(LY-GEM) on a European tour. I flew at Lezsno, met Charles Yeates
there, remember that Charles? I flew at 7 different sites in Germany
including the Wasserkuppe and the Hornberg. I flew at 4 sites in
England, had a great time.

I was never asked to show my Lithuanian license, proof of insurance, or
maintenance logbook, all of which I had. I let 125 strangers of various
nationalities fly my glider and no one expressed any concerns about
regulations, and no one put so much as a scratch on the glider. I got
to fly British, German and Slovenian registered gliders without any
hassle.

I was welcomed everywhere I went even before they knew what I was
flying. Maybe things have changed because of new EU regulations, I sure
hope not because I would like to do another tour like that.

I=92ll bet if you don=92t make a big thing of the glider being Experimental
you will get to fly just about anywhere. But remember you can=92t tow a
glider trailer as fast in Europe as you can in the USA. I have proof of
that.

Robert Mudd

[Charles Yeates]

Robert

Kris and I surely remember the fun at Lezsno in the PW-5 Worlds. Since
then, we have visited and flown with NZ friends we met in Poland, Isn't
Soaring a grand reason for travelling the world?

wrote:
> In the summer of 1999 I took my Lithuanian registered Genesis 2
> (LY-GEM) on a European tour. I flew at Lezsno, met Charles Yeates
> there, remember that Charles?
>

--
Charles Yeates

Swidnik PW-6U & PW-5
http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/yeatesc/world.html

[F.L. Whiteley]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
In the summer of 1999 I took my Lithuanian registered Genesis 2
(LY-GEM) on a European tour. I flew at Lezsno, met Charles Yeates
there, remember that Charles? I flew at 7 different sites in Germany
including the Wasserkuppe and the Hornberg. I flew at 4 sites in
England, had a great time.

I was never asked to show my Lithuanian license, proof of insurance, or
maintenance logbook, all of which I had. I let 125 strangers of various
nationalities fly my glider and no one expressed any concerns about
regulations, and no one put so much as a scratch on the glider. I got
to fly British, German and Slovenian registered gliders without any
hassle.

I was welcomed everywhere I went even before they knew what I was
flying. Maybe things have changed because of new EU regulations, I sure
hope not because I would like to do another tour like that.

Ill bet if you dont make a big thing of the glider being Experimental
you will get to fly just about anywhere. But remember you cant tow a
glider trailer as fast in Europe as you can in the USA. I have proof of
that.

Robert Mudd

hahahahaha

my UK glider trailer speeding ticket cost me plenty;^)

Frank Whiteley

[[email protected]]

Charles,

Soaring most certainly is a "a grand reason for travelling the world?"

I'll be visiting glider friends next month at AERO '05 in
Friedrichshafen, Germany and then Slovenia and Lithuania.
Great fun. And it is all cheaper and easier than most people realize.

Robert Mudd