Finally Going to Tackle the Interior - Day 0

[Mike Spera]

Day 0 (Wits and wallet still intact)

Just placed the call for the order to Airtex. I did talk to the folks in
the shop to ask about whether hog ringing through the support canvas
will REALLY hold up and not tear. They say it works fine. While calling
in the order, I was not sure about the screw sizes (#4 or #6). They said
#4 were the right ones. I figured that 100 screws and finishing washers
for $7 was about what I would pay at the local hardware store. AND, last
time I looked, I could not get oval heads, only flat. So, I just
eliminated one more variable. I was surprised that nearly all my
interior screws are rusted. They also recommended 2 pints of cement
instead of one because the fabric really soaks it up. Again, I probably
could have acquired plain old contact cement locally for 1/2 the price,
but you don't REALLY know if it will hold up until it fails. So, another
variable knocked off.

Now the first "surprise". I never really asked how long it would take
from order to delivery. The answer.... 8 WEEKS!!! YIKES!!! 8 WEEKS!!!
Well, they say that everyone places their order about now and it backs
them up. I had some foolish thought that I would get the stuff in about
2 or 3 weeks. Silly me. Once I got to thinking about it, I realized it
is not THAT warm out yet. And I do have a lot of grunt work to do like
painting the seat frames and plastic. Also, they ship when the stuff is
ready. Carpet in about 2 weeks, seats in about 5-6, and walls in 6-8.
O.K. I have to work in stages anyway and carpet, then seats, and then
walls is a good order to follow. I should probably do the headliner
first so if it drips, it will only stain the OLD interior and carpet.

When you look carefully, there are all kinds of little "projects" to be
done. The flap handle and trim wheel cover is in the original Piper puke
blue. Needs to get painted the carpet gray color and new placards
installed (I already have a sheet of placards). Also, the flap handle is
chipped up original black with a half worn off placard and shoddy
looking Schwinn bicycle grip. O.K. they looked cheap and shoddy even
when they were new. Any suggestions of a really cool looking grip that
will fit???? Then, there are the 2 little chintzy looking padded vinyl
inserts on the bottom of the instrument panel. The vinyl has been
falling off for a while and it is probably time to replace the stuff.
Hey! While we're at it (famous last words before a major house
remodeling), the radio face plates and control knobs could use
repainting... and how about going over the instrument panel with some
new press-type...and...and... O.K. Maybe AFTER the interior job. Whew!

I do want to scrounge the boneyards to try to find an articulating
(height adjustable) Piper seat frame for the co-pilot's side. The
booster cushions are a pain. Anyone have one for sale????

I ordered new seat belts and shoulder harness retractors (with new
webbing)from Chief. The cost to buy all new stuff was not that much more
than rewebbing. For me, an extra $150 or so is worth it to get all new
works in a box. No hassles about using the old hardware and waiting for
the stuff to get swapped. Just bolt in all new stuff. Retractors with
NEW springs and nice soft new belts (minus the fraying fuzz). Shiny new
hardware with nice positive locking latches.

Oh yeah, I learned something new. The two release levers on the back of
the co-pilot's seat. We always thought one released the seat back and
the other one did nothing. Well, probably everyone on the planet EXCEPT
me knew the other lever released the seat TRACK so the pax could push
the seat forward to exit. DUH!! Made a mental note to make up a couple
of placards to identify each release so a passenger might actually USE them.

As to the poster who said I might want new insulation in the process,
nope, last time I had the side walls off the insulation was in super
shape. Hey, do you actually glue down the carpeting to the floor
insulation. Looks like the last guy did, although it did not stick.

This weekend I need to take some "before" pictures. Not sure how I will
put them up. I do have an ISP service that purports I can post a site as
part of the service. I was not REALLY anxious to learn web composition.

Good Luck,
Mike

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[houstondan]

that was just a very good flying-magazine article you just did. good
read, thanks.


dan

[Blanche]

While you're in "while I'm doing this I may as well do that..." mode,
consider what you'll do when you take out the old interior sidewalls.
If they are as crummy as mine, you may want to scrape off the old
glue (carefully!) and insulation (which is probably in flakes by now)
and install new sidewall insulation in addition to the Airtex panels.
One option is the 1/4 in foam (with or without foil on one side, your
choice) that has glue already on one side. Fit it carefully around
the wiring and such on the pilot's side...Oh, and this may also
be a great opportunity to check that wiring (avionics and such) and
replace really old wiring...

It never stops...

[Steve A]

Thanks for the great read Mike & I can't wait to see the before & after
shots.
On the subject of insulation, does anyone know what effect "Acoustic
Insulation" as used in house walls to suppress noise, would have if used in
the side walls of the Cockpit & firewall? Or does the majority of the noise
still come through the Perspex windows & windscreen? Or exhaust noise from
the floor?
This question is mainly in relation to a PA28

Thanks from Down Under
Steve
>

[tom418]

Mike, when I did my Seneca's interior, I spent a lot more time doing the
miscellaneous tasks you mentioned (painting seat frames, insulation, etc)
than I did on installing the Airtex products. Believe me, those "eight
weeks" will go by fast. :)



"Mike Spera" > wrote in message
...
> Day 0 (Wits and wallet still intact)
>
> Just placed the call for the order to Airtex. I did talk to the folks in
> the shop to ask about whether hog ringing through the support canvas
> will REALLY hold up and not tear. They say it works fine. While calling
> in the order, I was not sure about the screw sizes (#4 or #6). They said
> #4 were the right ones. I figured that 100 screws and finishing washers
> for $7 was about what I would pay at the local hardware store. AND, last
> time I looked, I could not get oval heads, only flat. So, I just
> eliminated one more variable. I was surprised that nearly all my
> interior screws are rusted. They also recommended 2 pints of cement
> instead of one because the fabric really soaks it up. Again, I probably
> could have acquired plain old contact cement locally for 1/2 the price,
> but you don't REALLY know if it will hold up until it fails. So, another
> variable knocked off.
>
> Now the first "surprise". I never really asked how long it would take
> from order to delivery. The answer.... 8 WEEKS!!! YIKES!!! 8 WEEKS!!!
> Well, they say that everyone places their order about now and it backs
> them up. I had some foolish thought that I would get the stuff in about
> 2 or 3 weeks. Silly me. Once I got to thinking about it, I realized it
> is not THAT warm out yet. And I do have a lot of grunt work to do like
> painting the seat frames and plastic. Also, they ship when the stuff is
> ready. Carpet in about 2 weeks, seats in about 5-6, and walls in 6-8.
> O.K. I have to work in stages anyway and carpet, then seats, and then
> walls is a good order to follow. I should probably do the headliner
> first so if it drips, it will only stain the OLD interior and carpet.
>
> When you look carefully, there are all kinds of little "projects" to be
> done. The flap handle and trim wheel cover is in the original Piper puke
> blue. Needs to get painted the carpet gray color and new placards
> installed (I already have a sheet of placards). Also, the flap handle is
> chipped up original black with a half worn off placard and shoddy
> looking Schwinn bicycle grip. O.K. they looked cheap and shoddy even
> when they were new. Any suggestions of a really cool looking grip that
> will fit???? Then, there are the 2 little chintzy looking padded vinyl
> inserts on the bottom of the instrument panel. The vinyl has been
> falling off for a while and it is probably time to replace the stuff.
> Hey! While we're at it (famous last words before a major house
> remodeling), the radio face plates and control knobs could use
> repainting... and how about going over the instrument panel with some
> new press-type...and...and... O.K. Maybe AFTER the interior job. Whew!
>
> I do want to scrounge the boneyards to try to find an articulating
> (height adjustable) Piper seat frame for the co-pilot's side. The
> booster cushions are a pain. Anyone have one for sale????
>
> I ordered new seat belts and shoulder harness retractors (with new
> webbing)from Chief. The cost to buy all new stuff was not that much more
> than rewebbing. For me, an extra $150 or so is worth it to get all new
> works in a box. No hassles about using the old hardware and waiting for
> the stuff to get swapped. Just bolt in all new stuff. Retractors with
> NEW springs and nice soft new belts (minus the fraying fuzz). Shiny new
> hardware with nice positive locking latches.
>
> Oh yeah, I learned something new. The two release levers on the back of
> the co-pilot's seat. We always thought one released the seat back and
> the other one did nothing. Well, probably everyone on the planet EXCEPT
> me knew the other lever released the seat TRACK so the pax could push
> the seat forward to exit. DUH!! Made a mental note to make up a couple
> of placards to identify each release so a passenger might actually USE
them.
>
> As to the poster who said I might want new insulation in the process,
> nope, last time I had the side walls off the insulation was in super
> shape. Hey, do you actually glue down the carpeting to the floor
> insulation. Looks like the last guy did, although it did not stick.
>
> This weekend I need to take some "before" pictures. Not sure how I will
> put them up. I do have an ISP service that purports I can post a site as
> part of the service. I was not REALLY anxious to learn web composition.
>
> Good Luck,
> Mike
>
>
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[Dave Butler]

Mike Spera wrote:
> This weekend I need to take some "before" pictures. Not sure how I will
> put them up. I do have an ISP service that purports I can post a site as
> part of the service. I was not REALLY anxious to learn web composition.

Get a free account at yahoo.com and post your pictures to Yahoo! Photos. DGB

[[email protected]]

On 29 Mar 2005 02:59:52 GMT, Mike Spera > wrote:

biiiig snip

>As to the poster who said I might want new insulation in the process,
>nope, last time I had the side walls off the insulation was in super
>shape. Hey, do you actually glue down the carpeting to the floor
>insulation. Looks like the last guy did, although it did not stick.

Now would indeed be time to take a hard look at your sidewall
insulation. Have been inside way too many Cherokees where the side
windows leaked, the insulation became saturated and the fuse skin
corroded under the fiberglass.

Found one sitting in the hangar dicking around with an electronic
"thickness" gage a guy was demo'ing.

The foil-faced closed-cell foam stuff that the Mooney guys use is
pretty choice.

Am assuming that you have already removed any 'glas insulation that is
in contact with the rear spar attach fittings and have the drain holes
added in the belly. If any paint is peeling off of the fittings,
scrape off the loosies and do a quick Rustoleum poof-can
prime-and-paint.

Am also assuming your bird has copper start cables, if not, now would
be the time to swap 'em out.

The original flooring foam under the carpet is two layers of different
types of foam. If applied properly, it lasts about 20-25 years. Have
yet to come across an after-market foam product that lasted as
long/worked as well.

Use to have a source for the OEM foam from Piper through Bob Thornberg
at Muncie Aviation. Not sure if Bob's still in the business.

The first layer of foam is glued to the belly with 3M 1300L, second
layer is glued to the top, carpet is glued to the second layer of
foam. Worst part is getting all the old crap out.

Hope some of this helps;

TC

[Mike Spera]

Yep. Checked the insulation out about a year ago. In fine shape. Myself
and the previous owners kept the glass tight and replaced it all a
couple of times over the plane's life. Rear spar attach fittings?
Cleaned and repainted when the first service bulletin came out about 6-7
years ago. Again, mine were pretty clean because the plane had a history
of tight window seals. Copper cables done a LOOOOONG time ago.

Stuff on the floor looks like low density fiberboard. Have to take a
look at what may be under it, if anything. Looks like some previous
owner replaced the carpet. At one time, one of the carpet jobs appeared
to be glued to the fiberboard.

Thanks for the tips. This bird has had a pretty good maintenance
history. My IA contends that I "over maintain" the beast.

Mike

wrote:
> On 29 Mar 2005 02:59:52 GMT, Mike Spera > wrote:
>
> biiiig snip
>
>
>>As to the poster who said I might want new insulation in the process,
>>nope, last time I had the side walls off the insulation was in super
>>shape. Hey, do you actually glue down the carpeting to the floor
>>insulation. Looks like the last guy did, although it did not stick.
>
>
> Now would indeed be time to take a hard look at your sidewall
> insulation. Have been inside way too many Cherokees where the side
> windows leaked, the insulation became saturated and the fuse skin
> corroded under the fiberglass.
>
> Found one sitting in the hangar dicking around with an electronic
> "thickness" gage a guy was demo'ing.
>
> The foil-faced closed-cell foam stuff that the Mooney guys use is
> pretty choice.
>
> Am assuming that you have already removed any 'glas insulation that is
> in contact with the rear spar attach fittings and have the drain holes
> added in the belly. If any paint is peeling off of the fittings,
> scrape off the loosies and do a quick Rustoleum poof-can
> prime-and-paint.
>
> Am also assuming your bird has copper start cables, if not, now would
> be the time to swap 'em out.
>
> The original flooring foam under the carpet is two layers of different
> types of foam. If applied properly, it lasts about 20-25 years. Have
> yet to come across an after-market foam product that lasted as
> long/worked as well.
>
> Use to have a source for the OEM foam from Piper through Bob Thornberg
> at Muncie Aviation. Not sure if Bob's still in the business.
>
> The first layer of foam is glued to the belly with 3M 1300L, second
> layer is glued to the top, carpet is glued to the second layer of
> foam. Worst part is getting all the old crap out.
>
> Hope some of this helps;
>
> TC

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[Blanche]

Jim Fix carries a nice collection of FAA-blessed (means that the fire &
smoke tests and paperwork are OK) foam insualations. Check out
www.seatfoam.com for the info. The website isn't that great but
he's happy to send out a small catalog with the gory details. And
yes, he's got the foil, closed foam.

Plus that great temp-sensitive stuff for your seats!

[[email protected]]

On 30 Mar 2005 01:50:29 GMT, Mike Spera > wrote:

>Yep. Checked the insulation out about a year ago. In fine shape. Myself
>and the previous owners kept the glass tight and replaced it all a
>couple of times over the plane's life. Rear spar attach fittings?
>Cleaned and repainted when the first service bulletin came out about 6-7
>years ago. Again, mine were pretty clean because the plane had a history
>of tight window seals. Copper cables done a LOOOOONG time ago.

Good deal. I don't know what process Piper used to paint their steel
parts, but it sucks.

I'm a thinking it might a little longer than 6-7 years ago, I ain't
been under the back seat of a Piper for 5 and a little, and
cleaned/painted/r & r'd more of 'em than I like to think about.

>Stuff on the floor looks like low density fiberboard. Have to take a
>look at what may be under it, if anything. Looks like some previous
>owner replaced the carpet. At one time, one of the carpet jobs appeared
>to be glued to the fiberboard.

The bottom layer (memory fading, feeling inadequate) I think useta be
a funky semi-rigid foam board. Mode of failure-turns to either powder
or mush, depending on the condition of your side winder seals ; )

>Thanks for the tips. This bird has had a pretty good maintenance
>history. My IA contends that I "over maintain" the beast.

Keeping ahead of mechanical stuff has always been the way-to-go.
Nuthin' wrong with making stuff as decent as your time/wallet allows.

Regards;

TC

snippage follows

[Montblack]

(toecutter1962 wrote)
> I'm a thinking it might a little longer than 6-7 years ago, I ain't
> been under the back seat of a Piper for 5 and a little, and
> cleaned/painted/r & r'd more of 'em than I like to think about.

> The bottom layer (memory fading, feeling inadequate) I think useta be
> a funky semi-rigid foam board. Mode of failure-turns to either powder
> or mush, depending on the condition of your side winder seals ; )

> Keeping ahead of mechanical stuff has always been the way-to-go.
> Nuthin' wrong with making stuff as decent as your time/wallet allows.


Nice report ....Huck :-)


Montblack