View Full Version : New SB (SB-G09) on elevator pushrods for most all Grobs
soaringjac
May 5th 20, 03:17 PM
See the link below
http://www.ltb-lindner.com/g-102-ad-sb.html?file=tl_files/ltb_lindner/pdf/G%20102%20LTA%20%26%20TM%20Englisch/SB-G09_elevator%20pushrod_200408.pdf
Might help to specify GROB in string
soaringjac
May 5th 20, 07:36 PM
On Tuesday, May 5, 2020 at 11:33:17 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> Might help to specify GROB in string
its in the title of the post
Ah, not on little screen til after you open it
soaringjac
May 5th 20, 08:41 PM
On Tuesday, May 5, 2020 at 12:19:41 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> Ah, not on little screen til after you open it
Ah yeah you are right. It’s cutoff on mobile version. I’ll try to fix, thanks.
Stephen Szikora
May 5th 20, 10:01 PM
That repair looks like it will be moderately expensive. It seem that all will be forced to do it on affected aircraft because the you can’t inspect it without having done almost all of the repair instructions and closing it up.
soaringjac
May 5th 20, 10:32 PM
On Tuesday, May 5, 2020 at 2:01:05 PM UTC-7, Stephen Szikora wrote:
> That repair looks like it will be moderately expensive. It seem that all will be forced to do it on affected aircraft because the you can’t inspect it without having done almost all of the repair instructions and closing it up.
Luckily it looks like no drilling any access holes for my Astir CS, but looks like twins need some holes cut and repaired. Hopefully for my ship is as simple as pulling the rod, checking for corrosion, and then just putting it back in. Wonder what Linder is charging for a new pushrod.
On Tuesday, May 5, 2020 at 10:17:09 AM UTC-4, soaringjac wrote:
> See the link below
>
> http://www.ltb-lindner.com/g-102-ad-sb.html?file=tl_files/ltb_lindner/pdf/G%20102%20LTA%20%26%20TM%20Englisch/SB-G09_elevator%20pushrod_200408.pdf
Our club has a Grob 102 Astir CS. We are having wrench access problems trying to remove the lower rudder bolt. We can't get a wrench on either the bolt head or nut. We did disconnect the rudder pushrod and deflected the rudder as much as possible. We think we may have to remove some of the rudder material around the bolt head and nut to gain wrench access.
Has anyone else had this problem when trying to remove the rudder?
Chuck Zabinski
I am not specifically familiar but look at this if you have time and expertise to work up a plan B:
"Shortly after I picked up a Glasflugel 304CZ 17m - nearly new - a
similar EASA Directive was adopted by the FAA. This meant cutting up
the tails on numerous models of aircraft to determine if the pushrods
had drain holes. If not, then more surgery to remove them - good or
bad - and replace the rods at several hundred dollars apiece. Plus
time.
Convinced not to cut up my glider for an unknown, I lost enough sleep
to devise a method of unscrewing the upper rod-end bearing from the
hollow push rod tube, and borescoping the innerds while photographing
at 2" intervals on the way down. Maybe a dozen photos showed the
perfect metal condition on an un-drilled rod. There was a
manufacturer of surgical scopes nearby, and I borrowed a $50,000
dollar one. Then a small carbide twist drill was brazed in the end of
a sized longer wire rod and a drain hole was drilled from the same
upper access point. A small hose adapted to a vacuum removed all
chips, a swab of cotton with epoxy primer and the inner lining of this
tube was never to corrode in this lifetime. Tedious, but as close to
a surgeon as I will ever get.
This was a much different process than the EASA and FAA proposed "chop
and repair" regardless of condition; which statistically compromised
airworthiness by adding undetermined variables across airframes.
I forwarded the process package to FAA and after reviewing with EASA
Europe, I was issued the first AMOC Alternative Method Of Compliance
for this concern."
soaringjac
May 7th 20, 10:07 PM
On Thursday, May 7, 2020 at 1:34:07 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 5, 2020 at 10:17:09 AM UTC-4, soaringjac wrote:
> > See the link below
> >
> > http://www.ltb-lindner.com/g-102-ad-sb.html?file=tl_files/ltb_lindner/pdf/G%20102%20LTA%20%26%20TM%20Englisch/SB-G09_elevator%20pushrod_200408.pdf
>
> Our club has a Grob 102 Astir CS. We are having wrench access problems trying to remove the lower rudder bolt. We can't get a wrench on either the bolt head or nut. We did disconnect the rudder pushrod and deflected the rudder as much as possible. We think we may have to remove some of the rudder material around the bolt head and nut to gain wrench access.
>
> Has anyone else had this problem when trying to remove the rudder?
>
> Chuck Zabinski
Do you have a photo of the lower hinge area that you can show us? I need to go look at mine, but im pretty sure there is already some space cutout of the rudder to access it
On Tuesday, May 5, 2020 at 10:17:09 AM UTC-4, soaringjac wrote:
> See the link below
>
> http://www.ltb-lindner.com/g-102-ad-sb.html?file=tl_files/ltb_lindner/pdf/G%20102%20LTA%20%26%20TM%20Englisch/SB-G09_elevator%20pushrod_200408.pdf
The lower rudder bolt picture that I took isn't very good. There is some some access near the bolt head and nut but not enough to get wrench on them. We are going to do some fine Dremel dental work to get access.
Stephen Szikora
May 7th 20, 10:34 PM
Modify a tool, not the glider.
George Haeh
May 7th 20, 11:22 PM
Schleicher rudders have a hole in the bottom so you can get a socket with extension on the nut. Don't have a Grob handy at the moment to see. We had no problem removing the rudder from the club Twin.
Forceps might be helpful putting it back together.
On Tuesday, May 5, 2020 at 10:17:09 AM UTC-4, soaringjac wrote:
> See the link below
>
> http://www.ltb-lindner.com/g-102-ad-sb.html?file=tl_files/ltb_lindner/pdf/G%20102%20LTA%20%26%20TM%20Englisch/SB-G09_elevator%20pushrod_200408.pdf
Our club member and retired toolmaker had to modify some box wrenches to remove the lower rudder bolt. A small amount of Dremel work was still needed to gain access. Removing the elevator pushrod bolt is no easy task because of the tight access. Elevator pushrod was extracted and the required 6 mm hole drilled. No water or corrosion found in the pushrod. Awaiting inspection, reassembly and logbook entry by our A&P.
Chuck Zabinski
soaringjac
May 9th 20, 03:31 PM
On Saturday, May 9, 2020 at 12:18:13 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 5, 2020 at 10:17:09 AM UTC-4, soaringjac wrote:
> > See the link below
> >
> > http://www.ltb-lindner.com/g-102-ad-sb.html?file=tl_files/ltb_lindner/pdf/G%20102%20LTA%20%26%20TM%20Englisch/SB-G09_elevator%20pushrod_200408.pdf
>
> Our club member and retired toolmaker had to modify some box wrenches to remove the lower rudder bolt. A small amount of Dremel work was still needed to gain access. Removing the elevator pushrod bolt is no easy task because of the tight access. Elevator pushrod was extracted and the required 6 mm hole drilled. No water or corrosion found in the pushrod. Awaiting inspection, reassembly and logbook entry by our A&P.
>
> Chuck Zabinski
Thanks for the update! Had a quick look at mine and it is a bit tight around the lower bolt of the rudder. Does your Astir CS have the "welded" type or the "riveted" type pushrod?
On Tuesday, May 5, 2020 at 10:17:09 AM UTC-4, soaringjac wrote:
> See the link below
>
> http://www.ltb-lindner.com/g-102-ad-sb.html?file=tl_files/ltb_lindner/pdf/G%20102%20LTA%20%26%20TM%20Englisch/SB-G09_elevator%20pushrod_200408.pdf
Our Grob 102 Astir CS had the "welded version" elevator pushrod consistent with the Service Bulletin.
BTW: All the hardware requires 10 mm wrenches. The elevator pushrod bolt & nut required a modified box wrenches.
Chuck Zabinski
okko kloosterman
May 10th 20, 07:55 PM
Could you give some information on the required tool modifications?
Thanks.
OK
9-5-2020 19:52 wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 5, 2020 at 10:17:09 AM UTC-4, soaringjac wrote:
>> See the link below
>>
>> http://www.ltb-lindner.com/g-102-ad-sb.html?file=tl_files/ltb_lindner/pdf/G%20102%20LTA%20%26%20TM%20Englisch/SB-G09_elevator%20pushrod_200408.pdf
>
> Our Grob 102 Astir CS had the "welded version" elevator pushrod consistent with the Service Bulletin.
>
> BTW: All the hardware requires 10 mm wrenches. The elevator pushrod bolt & nut required a modified box wrenches.
>
> Chuck Zabinski
>
On Sunday, May 10, 2020 at 2:55:29 PM UTC-4, okko kloosterman wrote:
> Could you give some information on the required tool modifications?
> Thanks.
> OK
>
>
> 9-5-2020 19:52 wrote:
> > On Tuesday, May 5, 2020 at 10:17:09 AM UTC-4, soaringjac wrote:
> >> See the link below
> >>
> >> http://www.ltb-lindner.com/g-102-ad-sb.html?file=tl_files/ltb_lindner/pdf/G%20102%20LTA%20%26%20TM%20Englisch/SB-G09_elevator%20pushrod_200408.pdf
> >
> > Our Grob 102 Astir CS had the "welded version" elevator pushrod consistent with the Service Bulletin.
> >
> > BTW: All the hardware requires 10 mm wrenches. The elevator pushrod bolt & nut required a modified box wrenches.
> >
> > Chuck Zabinski
> >
The 10 mm box wrenches were ground down to thin the outer circular support structure that supports the gripping teeth. This lets the wrench fit into bolt access recess in the rudder. Even with that, a slight amount of Dremel work may be required to get the wrench to fit on the bolt nut. Also small hands and patience are required to remove the elevator pushrod bolt.
Chuck Zabinski
Dave Harrison
May 22nd 20, 08:11 AM
So did anybody find any evidence of corrosion inside the pushrod ?
Dave Harrison
May 22nd 20, 08:15 AM
At 14:17 05 May 2020, soaringjac wrote:
>See the link below
>
>http://www.ltb-lindner.com/g-102-ad-sb.html?
file=tl_files/ltb_lindner/pdf/G%20102%20LTA%20%26%20TM%2
0Englisch/SB-G09_elevator%20pushrod_200408.pdf
>
So did anybody find any evidence of corrosion in the pushrods ?
Dave Harrison
May 22nd 20, 09:00 AM
At 14:17 05 May 2020, soaringjac wrote:
>See the link below
>
>http://www.ltb-lindner.com/g-102-ad-sb.html?
file=tl_files/ltb_lindner/pdf/G%20102%20LTA%20%26%20TM%2
0Englisch/SB-G09_elevator%20pushrod_200408.pdf
>
So did anybody find any evidence of corrosion in the pushrods ?
Tony[_5_]
May 22nd 20, 01:27 PM
I checked our Twin Astir. No water or rust flakes came out of the drilled hole. Just to be sure I found a 5.5mm diameter wifi borescope on Amazon and had a look inside. Looked clean to me.
Eric Munk
May 28th 20, 10:17 AM
AD published by EASA:
https://ad.easa.europa.eu/ad/2020-0121
Scott Williams[_2_]
May 29th 20, 02:51 AM
On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 4:30:05 AM UTC-5, Eric Munk wrote:
> AD published by EASA:
>
> https://ad.easa.europa.eu/ad/2020-0121
Interesting, The original lindner documents exclude aluminum control rods, the EASA documents only has "steel" but is not as clear as Lindners exclusion.
Scott
Scott Williams[_2_]
May 29th 20, 02:58 AM
On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 8:51:05 PM UTC-5, Scott Williams wrote:
> On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 4:30:05 AM UTC-5, Eric Munk wrote:
> > AD published by EASA:
> >
> > https://ad.easa.europa.eu/ad/2020-0121
>
> Interesting, The original lindner documents exclude aluminum control rods, the EASA documents only has "steel" but is not as clear as Lindners exclusion.
> Scott
That is the 103 twin II at least,
On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 9:51:05 PM UTC-4, Scott Williams wrote:
> On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 4:30:05 AM UTC-5, Eric Munk wrote:
> > AD published by EASA:
> >
> > https://ad.easa.europa.eu/ad/2020-0121
>
> Interesting, The original lindner documents exclude aluminum control rods, the EASA documents only has "steel" but is not as clear as Lindners exclusion.
> Scott
Best to look at the serial number of your Grob. For the G103 there is a serial number range, that is excluded. The TN issued by Lindner spells out which serial numbers are affected or excluded.
Uli
'AS'
Charles Longley
May 29th 20, 05:32 AM
Well it’s not a FAA AD yet. Anyone know if there’s a NPRM for it yet?
Out of 10 G102 and 103 in the clubs nearby, 2 needed their elevator rods to be replaced.
Christoph
soaringjac
May 29th 20, 02:47 PM
On Friday, May 29, 2020 at 4:59:51 AM UTC-7, wrote:
> Out of 10 G102 and 103 in the clubs nearby, 2 needed their elevator rods to be replaced.
>
> Christoph
Where are the clubs located, what state?
Shaun Wheeler
May 30th 20, 01:52 AM
On Thursday, May 28, 2020 at 11:32:14 PM UTC-5, Charles Longley wrote:
> Well it’s not a FAA AD yet. Anyone know if there’s a NPRM for it yet?
Not yet. It's probably just a matter of time if EASA has already adopted a standard method of compliance and applicability.
David Cleveland
June 3rd 20, 02:59 AM
On Sunday, May 10, 2020 at 3:40:32 PM UTC-6, wrote:
> On Sunday, May 10, 2020 at 2:55:29 PM UTC-4, okko kloosterman wrote:
> > Could you give some information on the required tool modifications?
> > Thanks.
> > OK
> >
> >
> > 9-5-2020 19:52 wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, May 5, 2020 at 10:17:09 AM UTC-4, soaringjac wrote:
> > >> See the link below
> > >>
> > >> http://www.ltb-lindner.com/g-102-ad-sb.html?file=tl_files/ltb_lindner/pdf/G%20102%20LTA%20%26%20TM%20Englisch/SB-G09_elevator%20pushrod_200408.pdf
> > >
> > > Our Grob 102 Astir CS had the "welded version" elevator pushrod consistent with the Service Bulletin.
> > >
> > > BTW: All the hardware requires 10 mm wrenches. The elevator pushrod bolt & nut required a modified box wrenches.
> > >
> > > Chuck Zabinski
> > >
>
> The 10 mm box wrenches were ground down to thin the outer circular support structure that supports the gripping teeth. This lets the wrench fit into bolt access recess in the rudder. Even with that, a slight amount of Dremel work may be required to get the wrench to fit on the bolt nut. Also small hands and patience are required to remove the elevator pushrod bolt.
>
> Chuck Zabinski
Chuck, can you take a photo of the 10mm wrench after modification? Our club has 5 G-103, four of which are affected by this SB. We are looking at the inspection, but it sounds like your tool mod would be good prep work. Can you post or send me a photo of the tool after modification?
David
Alex Fordham
June 3rd 20, 07:40 PM
I've just done our Astir CS.
A few tips:
Lifting the tail onto a tressle for better access made it a lot easier. You will also need to adjust the trim to get the bell crank in a suitable position for disassembly. If i remember right, about 3/4 stick back was about right.
To get the lower rudder bolt off, a standard 10mm open end spanner fits on vertically (not side on as normal) and wedged into the small gap between the rudder and fin. Allen key in the bolt on top. I was a bit worried about the spanner damaging the rudder , but the release torque on the bolt was pretty low so no trouble here.
Access to the nut/bolt at the bottom of the pushrod is tricky, but possible (I have big hands so at a bit of a disadvantage here!) You'll need 2x 10mm spanners, one with a ratchet. Ours was installed with the bolt through from the left (close to the fin skin) and the nut on the right, open side. I would recommend keeping it this way as getting the nut on the skin side would be tricky to say the least.
Open end spanner on the bolt head, ideally with a bit of tape on the back side to prevent it from falling off. Ratchet spanner on the nut. The open end spanner will need bracing on the bottom of the fin (left hand) and the nut loosened with the right hand. Light pressure on the ratchet spanner is needed to stop it falling off the nut, which means you have to put your hand quite far in, restricting the ratchet motion to 1 or 2 clicks. Not a quick job in other words! Be careful when taking the nut off as it can fall into the tail boom through the bulkhead holes and is a bugger to get back out (don't ask!)
Drilling the hole is straight forward, although not sure how they expect you to deburr the inside of the hole!?
I took the chance to restore the paint on the rod, as I didn't fancy ever having to take it out again!
Reassembly posed its own challenges, especially as a 1 man job. Ideally you will have someone to hold the rod in position from above while you reassemble the joint, but if not you can rest the pushrod on the bellcrank with the correct trim position. 2 problems:
1. The bolt was too long to fit back in between the rod and the fin skin
2. I couldnt get both hands in to push the bolt in while holding the rod in the correct position
I used the other bolt off the rudder/pushrod connection, and partially inserted the win the wrong (right!) side of the joint to align it, then inserted the actual bolt in the correct way, coming in from above at downward angle to fit in the tight gap. Then remove the rudder bolt and push the main bolt in all the way. Similar setup with taped spanner & ratchet spanner to re-assemble and same strategy for the rudder hinge bolt
No corrosion in ours either, and that is with a very leaky trailer!
The club Twin II Acro has been another story altogether, seems that the wrong pushrod (rivetted version) was installed and impossible to remove through conventional means, so a few new holes going in that one by the looks of it :o
soaringjac
June 3rd 20, 08:32 PM
On Wednesday, June 3, 2020 at 11:40:37 AM UTC-7, Alex Fordham wrote:
> I've just done our Astir CS.
>
> A few tips:
>
> Lifting the tail onto a tressle for better access made it a lot easier. You will also need to adjust the trim to get the bell crank in a suitable position for disassembly. If i remember right, about 3/4 stick back was about right.
>
> To get the lower rudder bolt off, a standard 10mm open end spanner fits on vertically (not side on as normal) and wedged into the small gap between the rudder and fin. Allen key in the bolt on top. I was a bit worried about the spanner damaging the rudder , but the release torque on the bolt was pretty low so no trouble here.
>
> Access to the nut/bolt at the bottom of the pushrod is tricky, but possible (I have big hands so at a bit of a disadvantage here!) You'll need 2x 10mm spanners, one with a ratchet. Ours was installed with the bolt through from the left (close to the fin skin) and the nut on the right, open side. I would recommend keeping it this way as getting the nut on the skin side would be tricky to say the least.
> Open end spanner on the bolt head, ideally with a bit of tape on the back side to prevent it from falling off. Ratchet spanner on the nut. The open end spanner will need bracing on the bottom of the fin (left hand) and the nut loosened with the right hand. Light pressure on the ratchet spanner is needed to stop it falling off the nut, which means you have to put your hand quite far in, restricting the ratchet motion to 1 or 2 clicks. Not a quick job in other words! Be careful when taking the nut off as it can fall into the tail boom through the bulkhead holes and is a bugger to get back out (don't ask!)
>
> Drilling the hole is straight forward, although not sure how they expect you to deburr the inside of the hole!?
>
> I took the chance to restore the paint on the rod, as I didn't fancy ever having to take it out again!
>
> Reassembly posed its own challenges, especially as a 1 man job. Ideally you will have someone to hold the rod in position from above while you reassemble the joint, but if not you can rest the pushrod on the bellcrank with the correct trim position. 2 problems:
> 1. The bolt was too long to fit back in between the rod and the fin skin
> 2. I couldnt get both hands in to push the bolt in while holding the rod in the correct position
> I used the other bolt off the rudder/pushrod connection, and partially inserted the win the wrong (right!) side of the joint to align it, then inserted the actual bolt in the correct way, coming in from above at downward angle to fit in the tight gap. Then remove the rudder bolt and push the main bolt in all the way. Similar setup with taped spanner & ratchet spanner to re-assemble and same strategy for the rudder hinge bolt
>
> No corrosion in ours either, and that is with a very leaky trailer!
>
> The club Twin II Acro has been another story altogether, seems that the wrong pushrod (rivetted version) was installed and impossible to remove through conventional means, so a few new holes going in that one by the looks of it :o
Thanks for all this great info Alex, very much appreciated!
soaringjac
August 3rd 20, 02:10 AM
On Tuesday, May 5, 2020 at 7:17:09 AM UTC-7, soaringjac wrote:
> See the link below
>
> http://www.ltb-lindner.com/g-102-ad-sb.html?file=tl_files/ltb_lindner/pdf/G%20102%20LTA%20%26%20TM%20Englisch/SB-G09_elevator%20pushrod_200408.pdf
Did my Astir CS today and there was minor corrosion in the tube, so we have to replace it. Ship has been in California desert its whole life.
Michael Opitz
August 3rd 20, 03:29 PM
At 01:10 03 August 2020, soaringjac wrote:
>On Tuesday, May 5, 2020 at 7:17:09 AM UTC-7, soaringjac wrote:
>> See the link below
>>
>>
>http://www.ltb-lindner.com/g-102-ad-sb.html?
file=tl_files/ltb_lindner/pdf/G%20102%20LTA%20%26%20TM%20Engli
sch/SB-G09_elevator%20pushrod_200408.pdf
>
>Did my Astir CS today and there was minor corrosion in the tube, so
we have
>to replace it. Ship has been in California desert its whole life.
>
We had a Twin Astir fail too. LTB Lindner no longer requires the old
part to be sent back to them. I gave them the model and serial
number, and they were able to supply a new part. They ran my
credit card last Friday (31 Jul) and shipped it UPS Express. I got it
this morning (3 Aug). They are now shut down for summer vacation
for the next 3 weeks, but otherwise, I have found them to be quite
responsive. I don't know if i would have been able to get the part
any faster if it had come from a USA dealer/factory.
RO
soaringjac
August 3rd 20, 03:48 PM
On Monday, August 3, 2020 at 7:30:04 AM UTC-7, Michael Opitz wrote:
> At 01:10 03 August 2020, soaringjac wrote:
> >On Tuesday, May 5, 2020 at 7:17:09 AM UTC-7, soaringjac wrote:
> >> See the link below
> >>
> >>
> >http://www.ltb-lindner.com/g-102-ad-sb.html?
> file=tl_files/ltb_lindner/pdf/G%20102%20LTA%20%26%20TM%20Engli
> sch/SB-G09_elevator%20pushrod_200408.pdf
> >
> >Did my Astir CS today and there was minor corrosion in the tube, so
> we have
> >to replace it. Ship has been in California desert its whole life.
> >
>
> We had a Twin Astir fail too. LTB Lindner no longer requires the old
> part to be sent back to them. I gave them the model and serial
> number, and they were able to supply a new part. They ran my
> credit card last Friday (31 Jul) and shipped it UPS Express. I got it
> this morning (3 Aug). They are now shut down for summer vacation
> for the next 3 weeks, but otherwise, I have found them to be quite
> responsive. I don't know if i would have been able to get the part
> any faster if it had come from a USA dealer/factory.
>
> RO
Linder has been very responsive everytime I have dealt with them, and shipping is pretty quick. Unfortunately, like you said, they are closed for about he next month. So my ship is out of commission now until they open back up and i can order the part from them :(. Bad timing.
Larry Ruggiero
August 8th 20, 04:14 AM
Our Astir 102CS was a bit of a bugger to access. We removed the rudder, which was easy enough, but that pushrod lower clevis thru bolt was tough. It took two of us and a special long 1/4” drive wrench to remove and replace. We erred on the side of caution ahead of time and ordered a new one via Roger Mudd. Was north of $500. Turns out our original one was fine. Note that not all 103’s are affected—ours isn’t.
Larry Ruggiero, Carolina Soaring Assoc, Spartanburg SC
okko kloosterman[_2_]
August 8th 20, 12:26 PM
With my Astir CS I didn't have much difficulty:* removing the lower
rudder bolt was done with a 10mm open end wrench used vertically and the
pushrod bolt went loose easily (= normal force applied). Lindner even
added three new nuts with the ste I ordered.
No moisture and no rust inside the rod, so no problem...
Okko (Netherlands)
Op 8-8-2020 om 5:14 schreef Larry Ruggiero:
> Our Astir 102CS was a bit of a bugger to access. We removed the rudder, which was easy enough, but that pushrod lower clevis thru bolt was tough. It took two of us and a special long 1/4” drive wrench to remove and replace. We erred on the side of caution ahead of time and ordered a new one via Roger Mudd. Was north of $500. Turns out our original one was fine. Note that not all 103’s are affected—ours isn’t.
>
> Larry Ruggiero, Carolina Soaring Assoc, Spartanburg SC
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