Are areas of sink modeled well in Condor2?

[Charles Ethridge]

Question for those of you who fly with Oudie and Condor2:

While sink near thermals seem to be modeled well in Condor2, some people in our club do not think that Condor models areas of sink outside of thermals (between clouds) very well.

In other words, when they fly cross-country in real life with Oudie/Oudie2, they get much more sink during cruise than they do when flying that same cross-country in Condor2 with Oudie2. They compensate for this in various ways in their Oudie/Oudie2 settings.

Is this true in your experience as well?

Ben Ethridge

[Per Carlin]

Please let me know how to avoid sink by using Oudie :)

No, I don't think there are any sink settings to be used in SeeYou Mobile. It's a simple system for calculate the final glide by using inserted polar, McR-settting and calculated wind. It does the job as long as the sink and the rising air are equaled out in the long run.

[Mike N.]

Fly a lower McCredy than what conditions you are actually experiencing, right?

Obviously not perfect as sometimes you just hit big unexpected sink holes. But you can never take everything into account.

[Per Carlin]

To fly slow is the worst compensation you can do for sink or headwind.

In case of that I need extra margin di I increase the McR-value and/or bugs in the flightcomputer (oudie) and thermal more prior final glide.

[Senna Van den Bosch]

Op maandag 27 juli 2020 14:05:20 UTC+2 schreef Charles Ethridge:
> Question for those of you who fly with Oudie and Condor2:
>
> While sink near thermals seem to be modeled well in Condor2, some people in our club do not think that Condor models areas of sink outside of thermals (between clouds) very well.
>
> In other words, when they fly cross-country in real life with Oudie/Oudie2, they get much more sink during cruise than they do when flying that same cross-country in Condor2 with Oudie2. They compensate for this in various ways in their Oudie/Oudie2 settings.
>
> Is this true in your experience as well?
>
> Ben Ethridge

The only way to actually compensate for the sink when flying XC is flying energy lines, choose the right path and your average speed will go up. Just flying cloud to cloud isn't always the best option.

To answer your question, no, Condor does not model sink between clouds well.. It models it as still air, only moving horizontally. Condor is a great way of learning how to thermal but actually advanced techniques aren't easy to learn in Condor.

[Charles Ethridge]

On Tuesday, July 28, 2020 at 4:16:11 AM UTC-4, Senna Van den Bosch wrote:
> The only way to actually compensate for the sink when flying XC is flying energy lines, choose the right path and your average speed will go up. Just flying cloud to cloud isn't always the best option.
>

Thanks for answering the Condor2 question. I thought about tinkering with the polar settings in Oudie2, to simulate sink in cruise (i.e. drop the whole polar vertically downward), but then that would also negatively affect the thermaling, which I don't think would be realistic. What would be the best way to simulate sink in just the cruise phase, or is this just impossible to do, within reason?

When you say "energy lines", I know of four kinds:

1. Cloud streets. (I've flown in these in RL and Condor.)
2. Sea breeze fronts. (I've flown in these in RL.)
3. Ridge lift. (I've only flown in these in Condor.)
4. Mountain waves. (I've never flown in these.)

Are there other kinds I should be aware of?

Ben Ethridge

[Senna Van den Bosch]

Op woensdag 29 juli 2020 00:26:39 UTC+2 schreef Charles Ethridge:
> On Tuesday, July 28, 2020 at 4:16:11 AM UTC-4, Senna Van den Bosch wrote:
> > The only way to actually compensate for the sink when flying XC is flying energy lines, choose the right path and your average speed will go up. Just flying cloud to cloud isn't always the best option.
> >
>
> Thanks for answering the Condor2 question. I thought about tinkering with the polar settings in Oudie2, to simulate sink in cruise (i.e. drop the whole polar vertically downward), but then that would also negatively affect the thermaling, which I don't think would be realistic. What would be the best way to simulate sink in just the cruise phase, or is this just impossible to do, within reason?
>
> When you say "energy lines", I know of four kinds:
>
> 1. Cloud streets. (I've flown in these in RL and Condor.)
> 2. Sea breeze fronts. (I've flown in these in RL.)
> 3. Ridge lift. (I've only flown in these in Condor.)
> 4. Mountain waves. (I've never flown in these.)
>
> Are there other kinds I should be aware of?
>
> Ben Ethridge

You're correct about the energy lines, however I would say convergence as well. I haven't played with the Condor 2 settings that much but enabling streeting still allows for a bit more realistic conditions, but this is a general setting and you'll find those streets everywhere. In real life, there might be a few or maybe even just 1. Condor uses the set weather model for the entire map, no matter how far you fly. In real life, weather can be completely different 100km from your takeoff location.

In my opinion, Condor is still a game, it's got a long way to go if it's going to be a realistic simulator, but it's great fun and awesome with friends or online competitions.

[John Foster]

On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 12:21:07 AM UTC-6, Senna Van den Bosch wrote:
> Op woensdag 29 juli 2020 00:26:39 UTC+2 schreef Charles Ethridge:
> > On Tuesday, July 28, 2020 at 4:16:11 AM UTC-4, Senna Van den Bosch wrote:
> > > The only way to actually compensate for the sink when flying XC is flying energy lines, choose the right path and your average speed will go up. Just flying cloud to cloud isn't always the best option.
> > >
> >
> > Thanks for answering the Condor2 question. I thought about tinkering with the polar settings in Oudie2, to simulate sink in cruise (i.e. drop the whole polar vertically downward), but then that would also negatively affect the thermaling, which I don't think would be realistic. What would be the best way to simulate sink in just the cruise phase, or is this just impossible to do, within reason?
> >
> > When you say "energy lines", I know of four kinds:
> >
> > 1. Cloud streets. (I've flown in these in RL and Condor.)
> > 2. Sea breeze fronts. (I've flown in these in RL.)
> > 3. Ridge lift. (I've only flown in these in Condor.)
> > 4. Mountain waves. (I've never flown in these.)
> >
> > Are there other kinds I should be aware of?
> >
> > Ben Ethridge
>
> You're correct about the energy lines, however I would say convergence as well. I haven't played with the Condor 2 settings that much but enabling streeting still allows for a bit more realistic conditions, but this is a general setting and you'll find those streets everywhere. In real life, there might be a few or maybe even just 1. Condor uses the set weather model for the entire map, no matter how far you fly. In real life, weather can be completely different 100km from your takeoff location.
>
> In my opinion, Condor is still a game, it's got a long way to go if it's going to be a realistic simulator, but it's great fun and awesome with friends or online competitions.

What would be really great would be to have Condor use SkySight weather modeling for a particular area.

[son_of_flubber]

On Tuesday, July 28, 2020 at 4:16:11 AM UTC-4, Senna Van den Bosch wrote:

>> Condor is a great way of learning how to thermal but actually advanced techniques aren't easy to learn in Condor. <<

Is Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 any good for practicing these techniques in a glider? There was a lot of pre-release hype about FS 2020 doing something special with wind/sink/lift modeling.

[Senna Van den Bosch]

Op dinsdag 4 augustus 2020 03:43:27 UTC+2 schreef son_of_flubber:
> On Tuesday, July 28, 2020 at 4:16:11 AM UTC-4, Senna Van den Bosch wrote:
>
> >> Condor is a great way of learning how to thermal but actually advanced techniques aren't easy to learn in Condor. <<
>
> Is Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 any good for practicing these techniques in a glider? There was a lot of pre-release hype about FS 2020 doing something special with wind/sink/lift modeling.

There are no gliders in the new Flight Simulator 2020 yet so nobody knows. Microsoft states it's planned and I bet they will be added in the near future.

[[email protected]]

On Tuesday, August 4, 2020 at 1:21:01 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> Op dinsdag 4 augustus 2020 03:43:27 UTC+2 schreef son_of_flubber:
> > On Tuesday, July 28, 2020 at 4:16:11 AM UTC-4, Senna Van den Bosch wrote:
> >
> > >> Condor is a great way of learning how to thermal but actually advanced techniques aren't easy to learn in Condor. <<
> >
> > Is Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 any good for practicing these techniques in a glider? There was a lot of pre-release hype about FS 2020 doing something special with wind/sink/lift modeling.
> There are no gliders in the new Flight Simulator 2020 yet so nobody knows. Microsoft states it's planned and I bet they will be added in the near future.


Have to give the props to the developer of Condor 2.

I honestly never thought it possible to produce a lower level of support than Microsoft and I openly admit that I was totally wrong.

[Chris Wedgwood[_2_]]

On Tuesday, July 28, 2020 at 9:16:11 AM UTC+1, wrote:
> Op maandag 27 juli 2020 14:05:20 UTC+2 schreef Charles Ethridge:
> > Question for those of you who fly with Oudie and Condor2:
> >
> > While sink near thermals seem to be modeled well in Condor2, some people in our club do not think that Condor models areas of sink outside of thermals (between clouds) very well.
> >
> > In other words, when they fly cross-country in real life with Oudie/Oudie2, they get much more sink during cruise than they do when flying that same cross-country in Condor2 with Oudie2. They compensate for this in various ways in their Oudie/Oudie2 settings.
> >
> > Is this true in your experience as well?
> >
> > Ben Ethridge
> The only way to actually compensate for the sink when flying XC is flying energy lines, choose the right path and your average speed will go up. Just flying cloud to cloud isn't always the best option.
>
> To answer your question, no, Condor does not model sink between clouds well. It models it as still air, only moving horizontally. Condor is a great way of learning how to thermal but actually advanced techniques aren't easy to learn in Condor.

We are currently working on an update to Condor. One of the many things which are being added and improved is the inter thermal sink and turbulence.

Chris Wedgwood
Condor Team

[Chris Wedgwood[_2_]]

On Saturday, May 29, 2021 at 10:10:51 PM UTC+1, wrote:

> I honestly never thought it possible to produce a lower level of support than Microsoft and I openly admit that I was totally wrong.

This confuses me. All support emails are handled within an average time of 3-4 days. I have searched our support history and our purchase history, and I cannot find any messages or purchases for Shaun Wheeler.

One possibility is that you bought through Cumulus Soaring, in which case we wouldn't have any records for you, and you should contact Paul Remde in the first instance for support.

Otherwise, please contact me on if you still require assistance.

Chris
Condor Team

[Jonathan St. Cloud]

Condor 2 his an awesome software available to glider pilots at a VERY reasonable costs. Could it be better, sure, but for the cost I feel it is not right to disparage the developers!
Would I like the ability to add my own panel, to add bit better flight dynamics sure, but for $65 I am happy as a clam the way it is!!! Thank you Condor team!
at On Saturday, May 29, 2021 at 2:10:51 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 4, 2020 at 1:21:01 AM UTC-5, wrote:
> > Op dinsdag 4 augustus 2020 03:43:27 UTC+2 schreef son_of_flubber:
> > > On Tuesday, July 28, 2020 at 4:16:11 AM UTC-4, Senna Van den Bosch wrote:
> > >
> > > >> Condor is a great way of learning how to thermal but actually advanced techniques aren't easy to learn in Condor. <<
> > >
> > > Is Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 any good for practicing these techniques in a glider? There was a lot of pre-release hype about FS 2020 doing something special with wind/sink/lift modeling.
> > There are no gliders in the new Flight Simulator 2020 yet so nobody knows. Microsoft states it's planned and I bet they will be added in the near future.
> Have to give the props to the developer of Condor 2.
>
> I honestly never thought it possible to produce a lower level of support than Microsoft and I openly admit that I was totally wrong.

[Chris Wedgwood[_2_]]

On Monday, May 31, 2021 at 3:00:04 PM UTC+1, wrote:
> Condor 2 his an awesome software available to glider pilots at a VERY reasonable costs. Could it be better, sure, but for the cost I feel it is not right to disparage the developers!
> Would I like the ability to add my own panel, to add bit better flight dynamics sure, but for $65 I am happy as a clam the way it is!!! Thank you Condor team!

We are always interested in feedback for improvements or new features. Just email us on the support email with them.

Oh - Uros and I thank you for the kind words :)

Chris

[Bret Hess]

I would say it's modeled well in the sense that it often appears when you don't expect it! It's very good for training. I remember losing my wings in Condor because I kept pushing the speed to get through a huge area of sink that appeared suddenly on flat land. It was a very valuable lesson. The fact that it's different from real life for a given course isn't very important because you have to fly the conditions you've got in any case.

[John Foster]

On Monday, May 31, 2021 at 1:10:02 AM UTC-6, wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 28, 2020 at 9:16:11 AM UTC+1, wrote:
> > Op maandag 27 juli 2020 14:05:20 UTC+2 schreef Charles Ethridge:
> > > Question for those of you who fly with Oudie and Condor2:
> > >
> > > While sink near thermals seem to be modeled well in Condor2, some people in our club do not think that Condor models areas of sink outside of thermals (between clouds) very well.
> > >
> > > In other words, when they fly cross-country in real life with Oudie/Oudie2, they get much more sink during cruise than they do when flying that same cross-country in Condor2 with Oudie2. They compensate for this in various ways in their Oudie/Oudie2 settings.
> > >
> > > Is this true in your experience as well?
> > >
> > > Ben Ethridge
> > The only way to actually compensate for the sink when flying XC is flying energy lines, choose the right path and your average speed will go up. Just flying cloud to cloud isn't always the best option.
> >
> > To answer your question, no, Condor does not model sink between clouds well. It models it as still air, only moving horizontally. Condor is a great way of learning how to thermal but actually advanced techniques aren't easy to learn in Condor.
> We are currently working on an update to Condor. One of the many things which are being added and improved is the inter thermal sink and turbulence.
>
> Chris Wedgwood
> Condor Team

Any possibility of improving the wind model? For instance, the wind in Condor 2 seems to flow OVER obstacles well, but doesn't seem to flow AROUND obstacles. Thus you can unrealistically count on the wind always coming from roughly the same direction, no matter what. It would be nice to have the wind follow a more 3-dimentional model rather than the current 2-dimentional one. It also seems that ridge lift off a ridge immediately in the lee of a larger mountain seems unrealistically dependable. Convergence lift would also be another nice feature, but that's a whole additional level there. Otherwise, it is an amazing tool, and I've appreciated all the hard work you guys have put into it to develop such an amazing piece of software! Thanks.