Are areas of sink modeled well in Condor2?

Question for those of you who fly with Oudie and Condor2:

While sink near thermals seem to be modeled well in Condor2, some people in our club do not think that Condor models areas of sink outside of thermals (between clouds) very well.

In other words, when they fly cross-country in real life with Oudie/Oudie2, they get much more sink during cruise than they do when flying that same cross-country in Condor2 with Oudie2. They compensate for this in various ways in their Oudie/Oudie2 settings.

Is this true in your experience as well?

Ben Ethridge

Please let me know how to avoid sink by using Oudie

No, I don't think there are any sink settings to be used in SeeYou Mobile. It's a simple system for calculate the final glide by using inserted polar, McR-settting and calculated wind. It does the job as long as the sink and the rising air are equaled out in the long run.

Fly a lower McCredy than what conditions you are actually experiencing, right?

Obviously not perfect as sometimes you just hit big unexpected sink holes. But you can never take everything into account.

To fly slow is the worst compensation you can do for sink or headwind.

In case of that I need extra margin di I increase the McR-value and/or bugs in the flightcomputer (oudie) and thermal more prior final glide.

Op maandag 27 juli 2020 14:05:20 UTC+2 schreef Charles Ethridge:
Question for those of you who fly with Oudie and Condor2:

While sink near thermals seem to be modeled well in Condor2, some people in our club do not think that Condor models areas of sink outside of thermals (between clouds) very well.

In other words, when they fly cross-country in real life with Oudie/Oudie2, they get much more sink during cruise than they do when flying that same cross-country in Condor2 with Oudie2. They compensate for this in various ways in their Oudie/Oudie2 settings.

Is this true in your experience as well?

Ben Ethridge

The only way to actually compensate for the sink when flying XC is flying energy lines, choose the right path and your average speed will go up. Just flying cloud to cloud isn't always the best option.

To answer your question, no, Condor does not model sink between clouds well.. It models it as still air, only moving horizontally. Condor is a great way of learning how to thermal but actually advanced techniques aren't easy to learn in Condor.

On Tuesday, July 28, 2020 at 4:16:11 AM UTC-4, Senna Van den Bosch wrote:
The only way to actually compensate for the sink when flying XC is flying energy lines, choose the right path and your average speed will go up. Just flying cloud to cloud isn't always the best option.


Thanks for answering the Condor2 question. I thought about tinkering with the polar settings in Oudie2, to simulate sink in cruise (i.e. drop the whole polar vertically downward), but then that would also negatively affect the thermaling, which I don't think would be realistic. What would be the best way to simulate sink in just the cruise phase, or is this just impossible to do, within reason?

When you say "energy lines", I know of four kinds:

1. Cloud streets. (I've flown in these in RL and Condor.)
2. Sea breeze fronts. (I've flown in these in RL.)
3. Ridge lift. (I've only flown in these in Condor.)
4. Mountain waves. (I've never flown in these.)

Are there other kinds I should be aware of?

Ben Ethridge

Op woensdag 29 juli 2020 00:26:39 UTC+2 schreef Charles Ethridge:
On Tuesday, July 28, 2020 at 4:16:11 AM UTC-4, Senna Van den Bosch wrote:
The only way to actually compensate for the sink when flying XC is flying energy lines, choose the right path and your average speed will go up. Just flying cloud to cloud isn't always the best option.


Thanks for answering the Condor2 question. I thought about tinkering with the polar settings in Oudie2, to simulate sink in cruise (i.e. drop the whole polar vertically downward), but then that would also negatively affect the thermaling, which I don't think would be realistic. What would be the best way to simulate sink in just the cruise phase, or is this just impossible to do, within reason?

When you say "energy lines", I know of four kinds:

1. Cloud streets. (I've flown in these in RL and Condor.)
2. Sea breeze fronts. (I've flown in these in RL.)
3. Ridge lift. (I've only flown in these in Condor.)
4. Mountain waves. (I've never flown in these.)

Are there other kinds I should be aware of?

Ben Ethridge

You're correct about the energy lines, however I would say convergence as well. I haven't played with the Condor 2 settings that much but enabling streeting still allows for a bit more realistic conditions, but this is a general setting and you'll find those streets everywhere. In real life, there might be a few or maybe even just 1. Condor uses the set weather model for the entire map, no matter how far you fly. In real life, weather can be completely different 100km from your takeoff location.

In my opinion, Condor is still a game, it's got a long way to go if it's going to be a realistic simulator, but it's great fun and awesome with friends or online competitions.

On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 12:21:07 AM UTC-6, Senna Van den Bosch wrote:
Op woensdag 29 juli 2020 00:26:39 UTC+2 schreef Charles Ethridge:
On Tuesday, July 28, 2020 at 4:16:11 AM UTC-4, Senna Van den Bosch wrote:
The only way to actually compensate for the sink when flying XC is flying energy lines, choose the right path and your average speed will go up. Just flying cloud to cloud isn't always the best option.


Thanks for answering the Condor2 question. I thought about tinkering with the polar settings in Oudie2, to simulate sink in cruise (i.e. drop the whole polar vertically downward), but then that would also negatively affect the thermaling, which I don't think would be realistic. What would be the best way to simulate sink in just the cruise phase, or is this just impossible to do, within reason?

When you say "energy lines", I know of four kinds:

1. Cloud streets. (I've flown in these in RL and Condor.)
2. Sea breeze fronts. (I've flown in these in RL.)
3. Ridge lift. (I've only flown in these in Condor.)
4. Mountain waves. (I've never flown in these.)

Are there other kinds I should be aware of?

Ben Ethridge

You're correct about the energy lines, however I would say convergence as well. I haven't played with the Condor 2 settings that much but enabling streeting still allows for a bit more realistic conditions, but this is a general setting and you'll find those streets everywhere. In real life, there might be a few or maybe even just 1. Condor uses the set weather model for the entire map, no matter how far you fly. In real life, weather can be completely different 100km from your takeoff location.

In my opinion, Condor is still a game, it's got a long way to go if it's going to be a realistic simulator, but it's great fun and awesome with friends or online competitions.

What would be really great would be to have Condor use SkySight weather modeling for a particular area.

On Tuesday, July 28, 2020 at 4:16:11 AM UTC-4, Senna Van den Bosch wrote:

Condor is a great way of learning how to thermal but actually advanced techniques aren't easy to learn in Condor.

Is Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 any good for practicing these techniques in a glider? There was a lot of pre-release hype about FS 2020 doing something special with wind/sink/lift modeling.

Op dinsdag 4 augustus 2020 03:43:27 UTC+2 schreef son_of_flubber:
On Tuesday, July 28, 2020 at 4:16:11 AM UTC-4, Senna Van den Bosch wrote:

Condor is a great way of learning how to thermal but actually advanced techniques aren't easy to learn in Condor.

Is Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 any good for practicing these techniques in a glider? There was a lot of pre-release hype about FS 2020 doing something special with wind/sink/lift modeling.

There are no gliders in the new Flight Simulator 2020 yet so nobody knows. Microsoft states it's planned and I bet they will be added in the near future.