JPI Data Encryption?

[CSnyder]

Seems sometime last year JPI decided to eliminate the ability of it's
scanners to export data in the widely used CSV (comma separated fields)
format. When a unit is sent in for upgrade or repair they silently make
this change to the firmware.

The only thing you can use to plot your data is their software. Won't
export to Exel, any other database or any other trend monitoring software.

JPI recently started a web board. This issue has been raised on that board.
The sysadmin has been deleting the threads about as fast as they pop up.

Take a look at http://www.jpitech.com/messageboard/index.php. The most
recent thread was under 'Unbelievable'. Probably gone by now.

As of 1015 EDT, they took the web board down again. Interesting attitude
towards customers who pay a premium for their products.

[CSnyder]

Site still down. Here is a link to the latest thread. All the posters
seemed pretty civil.

http://www.jpitech.com/messageboard/viewtopic.php?t=15

[kage]

"CSnyder" > wrote in message
.. .
> Seems sometime last year JPI decided to eliminate the ability of it's


From the JPI web site:

Please note that JPI's EDM download software has changed and will no longer
download into Egview programs. In order to develop more complex software for
the EDM's it was necessary to change. In an effort to enhance our systems
which include the new EDM - 900 and the 930 series, JPI had to change its
protocol to have one-common software. We are sorry if this has caused any
inconvenience. If you have purchased a copy of the Egview software, send it
to JPI and we will exchange it for a free copy of EzPlot II. A FREE copy of
the EzPlot I software is available for download.

So, what is the problem?

[Peter R.]

CSnyder > wrote:

> The only thing you can use to plot your data is their software. Won't
> export to Exel, any other database or any other trend monitoring software.

Not true. I am able to copy the data from the table in the new software
(freeware version) and paste it directly into Excel.

A bit tedious, yes, but the ability is there.


--
Peter


















----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

[Jon A.]

Be careful what you say about JPI. They're bullies and very sue
happy. Fargin' NAZI's! Maybe it's time to start recirculating those
"NO JPI" Tshirts.

On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 02:29:16 GMT, "CSnyder" >
wrote:

>Seems sometime last year JPI decided to eliminate the ability of it's
>scanners to export data in the widely used CSV (comma separated fields)
>format. When a unit is sent in for upgrade or repair they silently make
>this change to the firmware.
>
>The only thing you can use to plot your data is their software. Won't
>export to Exel, any other database or any other trend monitoring software.
>
>JPI recently started a web board. This issue has been raised on that board.
>The sysadmin has been deleting the threads about as fast as they pop up.
>
>Take a look at http://www.jpitech.com/messageboard/index.php. The most
>recent thread was under 'Unbelievable'. Probably gone by now.
>
>As of 1015 EDT, they took the web board down again. Interesting attitude
>towards customers who pay a premium for their products.
>
>

[Jon A.]

On 23 Apr 2005 20:10:07 -0700, "CSnyder" >
wrote:

>http://www.jpitech.com/messageboard/viewtopic.php?t=15

Very interesting. Obviously the moderator is one of those full-of-
**** types and his attempt to put a spin on everything is just ****in'
more folks off. This newsgroup info may be the worst thing that's
happened to them so far. I'll predict that someone enters this forum
and try to defend their actions, only to be beaten and bloodied by the
users. IIRC, trying to reason with this company is impossible.
Where's my Tshirt!

And if you've ever seen the competition's software, you would know why
JPI did this.

[Jon A.]

Have a look at something that really rocks.

http://www.egtrends.com/

Now that you know that someone's built a supercharger for your engine
analyzer info, realize that JPI has altered their software so that
this can't be used. Can you better understand the problem?


On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 20:14:00 -0700, "kage" >
wrote:

>
>"CSnyder" > wrote in message
.. .
>> Seems sometime last year JPI decided to eliminate the ability of it's
>
>
>From the JPI web site:
>
>Please note that JPI's EDM download software has changed and will no longer
>download into Egview programs. In order to develop more complex software for
>the EDM's it was necessary to change. In an effort to enhance our systems
>which include the new EDM - 900 and the 930 series, JPI had to change its
>protocol to have one-common software. We are sorry if this has caused any
>inconvenience. If you have purchased a copy of the Egview software, send it
>to JPI and we will exchange it for a free copy of EzPlot II. A FREE copy of
>the EzPlot I software is available for download.
>
>So, what is the problem?
>

[Matt Barrow]

Ever hear of a filter?

"Jon A." > wrote in message
...
> Have a look at something that really rocks.
>
> http://www.egtrends.com/
>
> Now that you know that someone's built a supercharger for your engine
> analyzer info, realize that JPI has altered their software so that
> this can't be used. Can you better understand the problem?
>
>
> On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 20:14:00 -0700, "kage" >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"CSnyder" > wrote in message
> .. .
> >> Seems sometime last year JPI decided to eliminate the ability of it's
> >
> >
> >From the JPI web site:
> >
> >Please note that JPI's EDM download software has changed and will no
longer
> >download into Egview programs. In order to develop more complex software
for
> >the EDM's it was necessary to change. In an effort to enhance our systems
> >which include the new EDM - 900 and the 930 series, JPI had to change its
> >protocol to have one-common software. We are sorry if this has caused any
> >inconvenience. If you have purchased a copy of the Egview software, send
it
> >to JPI and we will exchange it for a free copy of EzPlot II. A FREE copy
of
> >the EzPlot I software is available for download.
> >
> >So, what is the problem?
> >
>

[Jon A.]

Fuel? Oil?

On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 14:53:46 -0700, "Matt Barrow"
> wrote:

>Ever hear of a filter?
>
>"Jon A." > wrote in message
...
>> Have a look at something that really rocks.
>>
>> http://www.egtrends.com/
>>
>> Now that you know that someone's built a supercharger for your engine
>> analyzer info, realize that JPI has altered their software so that
>> this can't be used. Can you better understand the problem?
>>
>>
>> On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 20:14:00 -0700, "kage" >
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"CSnyder" > wrote in message
>> .. .
>> >> Seems sometime last year JPI decided to eliminate the ability of it's
>> >
>> >
>> >From the JPI web site:
>> >
>> >Please note that JPI's EDM download software has changed and will no
>longer
>> >download into Egview programs. In order to develop more complex software
>for
>> >the EDM's it was necessary to change. In an effort to enhance our systems
>> >which include the new EDM - 900 and the 930 series, JPI had to change its
>> >protocol to have one-common software. We are sorry if this has caused any
>> >inconvenience. If you have purchased a copy of the Egview software, send
>it
>> >to JPI and we will exchange it for a free copy of EzPlot II. A FREE copy
>of
>> >the EzPlot I software is available for download.
>> >
>> >So, what is the problem?
>> >
>>
>

[Newps]

Jon A. wrote:

> Be careful what you say about JPI. They're bullies and very sue
> happy. Fargin' NAZI's! Maybe it's time to start recirculating those
> "NO JPI" Tshirts.


JPI is getting absolutely killed on the Cessna Pilots Assoc website
message boards because of their anti customer positions. Hard to
believe they could be so stupid.

[Frank Stutzman]

Newps > wrote:

> JPI is getting absolutely killed on the Cessna Pilots Assoc website
> message boards because of their anti customer positions. Hard to
> believe they could be so stupid.

None too popular on the Bonanza owners list, either.

--
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
Hood River, OR

[Blanche]

>Newps > wrote:
>
>> JPI is getting absolutely killed on the Cessna Pilots Assoc website
>> message boards because of their anti customer positions. Hard to
>> believe they could be so stupid.

Nor on various Piper lists.

[Matt Barrow]

"Jon A." > wrote in message
...
> Fuel? Oil?

File.


>
> On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 14:53:46 -0700, "Matt Barrow"
> > wrote:
>
> >Ever hear of a filter?
> >

[Matt Barrow]

"Newps" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> JPI is getting absolutely killed on the Cessna Pilots Assoc website
> message boards because of their anti customer positions. Hard to
> believe they could be so stupid.

It has not so much to do with "stupid" as it does "arrogance".

It's the way a lot of American companies do business nowadays.

My accountant spends about 10 hours a month fixing billing "errors" (i.e.,
always in THEIR favor) and the most typical response is essentially "we'll
fix it when we gat around to it", which is typically after three or four
follow-up calls.

I notice it's become a lot more prevalent since the Republicans took over
Congress.


Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

[Javier Henderson]

Frank Stutzman > writes:

> Newps > wrote:
>
> > JPI is getting absolutely killed on the Cessna Pilots Assoc website
> > message boards because of their anti customer positions. Hard to
> > believe they could be so stupid.
>
> None too popular on the Bonanza owners list, either.

Or the Mooney list.

-jav

[Dude]

> I notice it's become a lot more prevalent since the Republicans took over
> Congress.
>
>

I noticed the same thing, but blamed it on a differrent cause. The .com
boom. Computer billing systems that make mistakes against the company get
fixed immediately. Also, so many people were making so much money they did
not have time to care about overbilling.

Another issue is that the Justice Department, part of the executive, has
been worthless since the mid 90's. Bush has not yet fixed it either. I
wouldn't blame that on Congress though.

[Matt Barrow]

"Dude" > wrote in message
...
> > I notice it's become a lot more prevalent since the Republicans took
over
> > Congress.
> >
> >
>
> I noticed the same thing, but blamed it on a differrent cause. The .com
> boom. Computer billing systems that make mistakes against the company get
> fixed immediately.

The errors we've seen have nothing to do with computer errors. Most often
it's for unordered materials and labor charges. Those are entry errors and
likely deliberate.

> Also, so many people were making so much money they did
> not have time to care about overbilling.

At any level of income, about three-fourths of people won't catch it, or
find it worthless (not to mention too aggravating) to call them on it.

> Another issue is that the Justice Department, part of the executive, has
> been worthless since the mid 90's.

Are you talking about the 1990's or the 1890's? Either one is valid. :~)

> Bush has not yet fixed it either. I
> wouldn't blame that on Congress though.

If congress makes the laws that allows or pooh-poohs such behavior (not to
mention encourages it; see the recent telemarketing and "anti-spam"
laws...worthless) the executive branch can't do much.

[Matt Barrow]

"Javier Henderson" > wrote in message
...
> Frank Stutzman > writes:
>
> > Newps > wrote:
> >
> > > JPI is getting absolutely killed on the Cessna Pilots Assoc website
> > > message boards because of their anti customer positions. Hard to
> > > believe they could be so stupid.
> >
> > None too popular on the Bonanza owners list, either.
>
> Or the Mooney list.
>

Sigh!!! Corporate suicide.

Evidently many companies don't realize that they can't hide their
stupidity/arrogance like they used to.


Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

[Matt Barrow]

"Javier Henderson" > wrote in message
...
> Frank Stutzman > writes:
>
> > Newps > wrote:
> >
> > > JPI is getting absolutely killed on the Cessna Pilots Assoc website
> > > message boards because of their anti customer positions. Hard to
> > > believe they could be so stupid.
> >
> > None too popular on the Bonanza owners list, either.
>
> Or the Mooney list.

So, don't upgrade the software? I have a JPI-700 (never registered it, if
I'm supposed to...it came with my plane) and don't really see anything that
would encourage me to change it.

In almost five years I'm had it, I've downloaded data to it only once.

[[email protected]]

Matt Barrow wrote:
>
> So, don't upgrade the software? I have a JPI-700 (never registered
it, if
> I'm supposed to...it came with my plane) and don't really see
anything that
> would encourage me to change it.
>
> In almost five years I'm had it, I've downloaded data to it only
once.

That'll work fine as long as JPI never touches your JPI-700. At
Sun-n-fun, a Piper list member was told that all new monitors and any
old ones that come in for service will have their firmware upgraded and
will no longer work with older versions of the program (that allow you
to convert the data).


John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

[[email protected]]

CSnyder wrote:
> Seems sometime last year JPI decided to eliminate the ability of
it's
> scanners to export data in the widely used CSV (comma separated
fields)
> format. When a unit is sent in for upgrade or repair they silently
make
> this change to the firmware.
>
> The only thing you can use to plot your data is their software.
Won't
> export to Exel, any other database or any other trend monitoring
software.
>
<snip>

I first heard about this a few months ago. Since I was in the
market for an analyzer for my new engine, I emailed JPI tech support
for details. I received a rather arrogant response telling me that
JPI's EZplot software does anything I'll ever need, so I shouldn't be
bothered that the unit will not work with any other software.
Ironically, in the next sentence, the tech mentioned that they are
still working on EZplot "modules" that will perform some functions of
EGview. That got me a chuckle.

In the end, I sent JPI an email to let them know that my hard earned
dollars had gone to Electronics International, who by the way, seem to
think that the data that comes out of their analyzer is mine to do
whatever I want with it. The unit is being installed this week.

I personally know of two other owners that have gone with EI in the
last month for the same reason.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

[Frank Stutzman]

Matt Barrow > wrote:

> So, don't upgrade the software? I have a JPI-700 (never registered it, if
> I'm supposed to...it came with my plane) and don't really see anything that
> would encourage me to change it.

Better hope that nothing breaks on it. Send it back to them for a repair
of *any kind* and you are going to get updated firmware.

> In almost five years I'm had it, I've downloaded data to it only once.

To each his own. I make sure that every one of my flights gets download.
I figure if an when I ever sell my plane (HA!) and the prospective buyer
asks how the engine is, I'll hand him a cdrom and tell he can review every
hour of operation since overhaul.



--
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
Hood River, OR

[Juan Jimenez]

Does anyone have an example of an old file and a new file so that bitheads
like me can take a look at the raw data and see if a simple conversion
algorithm is possible?

"Frank Stutzman" > wrote in message
...
> Matt Barrow > wrote:
>
>> So, don't upgrade the software? I have a JPI-700 (never registered it, if
>> I'm supposed to...it came with my plane) and don't really see anything
>> that
>> would encourage me to change it.
>
> Better hope that nothing breaks on it. Send it back to them for a repair
> of *any kind* and you are going to get updated firmware.
>
>> In almost five years I'm had it, I've downloaded data to it only once.
>
> To each his own. I make sure that every one of my flights gets download.
> I figure if an when I ever sell my plane (HA!) and the prospective buyer
> asks how the engine is, I'll hand him a cdrom and tell he can review every
> hour of operation since overhaul.
>
>
>
> --
> Frank Stutzman
> Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
> Hood River, OR
>

[Jon A.]

;-)

On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 07:03:56 -0700, "Matt Barrow"
> wrote:

>
>"Jon A." > wrote in message
...
>> Fuel? Oil?
>
>File.
>
>
>>
>> On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 14:53:46 -0700, "Matt Barrow"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >Ever hear of a filter?
>> >
>

[Jon A.]

It's a good tool to use if you can interpret it. I think a major
problem is that if you return the unit for repair, you get the new
software, regardless of your wishes. Sure hacks a lot of people off.

I wonder if the JPI folks are really aware they're ****ing so many
off! Anyone have any insight out there?



On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 14:44:50 -0700, "Matt Barrow"
> wrote:

>"Javier Henderson" > wrote in message
...
>> Frank Stutzman > writes:
>>
>> > Newps > wrote:
>> >
>> > > JPI is getting absolutely killed on the Cessna Pilots Assoc website
>> > > message boards because of their anti customer positions. Hard to
>> > > believe they could be so stupid.
>> >
>> > None too popular on the Bonanza owners list, either.
>>
>> Or the Mooney list.
>
>So, don't upgrade the software? I have a JPI-700 (never registered it, if
>I'm supposed to...it came with my plane) and don't really see anything that
>would encourage me to change it.
>
>In almost five years I'm had it, I've downloaded data to it only once.
>
>

[Jon A.]

Ronco;
Contact John Deakin or George Braly for this.

On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 22:14:40 -0400, "Juan Jimenez" >
wrote:

>Does anyone have an example of an old file and a new file so that bitheads
>like me can take a look at the raw data and see if a simple conversion
>algorithm is possible?
>
>"Frank Stutzman" > wrote in message
...
>> Matt Barrow > wrote:
>>
>>> So, don't upgrade the software? I have a JPI-700 (never registered it, if
>>> I'm supposed to...it came with my plane) and don't really see anything
>>> that
>>> would encourage me to change it.
>>
>> Better hope that nothing breaks on it. Send it back to them for a repair
>> of *any kind* and you are going to get updated firmware.
>>
>>> In almost five years I'm had it, I've downloaded data to it only once.
>>
>> To each his own. I make sure that every one of my flights gets download.
>> I figure if an when I ever sell my plane (HA!) and the prospective buyer
>> asks how the engine is, I'll hand him a cdrom and tell he can review every
>> hour of operation since overhaul.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Frank Stutzman
>> Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
>> Hood River, OR
>>
>

[Jon A.]

Also, might be a good subject for a blurb in ANN!

On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 22:14:40 -0400, "Juan Jimenez" >
wrote:

>Does anyone have an example of an old file and a new file so that bitheads
>like me can take a look at the raw data and see if a simple conversion
>algorithm is possible?
>
>"Frank Stutzman" > wrote in message
...
>> Matt Barrow > wrote:
>>
>>> So, don't upgrade the software? I have a JPI-700 (never registered it, if
>>> I'm supposed to...it came with my plane) and don't really see anything
>>> that
>>> would encourage me to change it.
>>
>> Better hope that nothing breaks on it. Send it back to them for a repair
>> of *any kind* and you are going to get updated firmware.
>>
>>> In almost five years I'm had it, I've downloaded data to it only once.
>>
>> To each his own. I make sure that every one of my flights gets download.
>> I figure if an when I ever sell my plane (HA!) and the prospective buyer
>> asks how the engine is, I'll hand him a cdrom and tell he can review every
>> hour of operation since overhaul.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Frank Stutzman
>> Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
>> Hood River, OR
>>
>

[Kyler Laird]

Jon A. > writes:

>Also, might be a good subject for a blurb in ANN!

'twould be nice if such a blurb pointed out that JPI clearly demonstrated
contempt for its (potential!) customers well before this happened and
that anyone who chose to buy JPI anyway should have expected something
like this to happen.

--kyler

[Juan Jimenez]

That requires that people who a) are customers or b) have been customers,
and c) have had this happen to them to go on record saying this, Kyler.
You're welcome to email and tell your side of the
story.

"Kyler Laird" > wrote in message
...
> Jon A. > writes:
>
>>Also, might be a good subject for a blurb in ANN!
>
> 'twould be nice if such a blurb pointed out that JPI clearly demonstrated
> contempt for its (potential!) customers well before this happened and
> that anyone who chose to buy JPI anyway should have expected something
> like this to happen.
>
> --kyler

[Juan Jimenez]

Umm... this is on www.jpitech.com now...

JPI will now convert your downloaded DAT file into a CSV file format for $
5 (USD). This feature will be available automatically on this website in the
future, but you can email in your DAT file now for this conversion process.

???

Juan

[Jon A.]

You missed it, Juan. Down below they state that they'll exchange the
better EG Trends software (the current company they want to put out of
business) for their new crap that still doesn't hold up a dim candle
to it. That's what this whole software changing and updating thing is
really all about. If you've never used the downloading features and
plotted and graphed the info (Excel) you won't know the difference.
But for those who really look at the stuff, and everyone should, it's
important.

Anyway, here's a blast from the past for everyone to look at. How
many remember this embarrassing fiasco where JPI had the money to sue
a little guy out of business.

http://home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a/jpi.html


On Tue, 26 Apr 2005 22:24:51 -0400, "Juan Jimenez" >
wrote:

>Umm... this is on www.jpitech.com now...
>
> JPI will now convert your downloaded DAT file into a CSV file format for $
>5 (USD). This feature will be available automatically on this website in the
>future, but you can email in your DAT file now for this conversion process.
>
>???
>
>Juan
>

[George Patterson]

Jon A. wrote:
>
> Anyway, here's a blast from the past for everyone to look at. How
> many remember this embarrassing fiasco where JPI had the money to sue
> a little guy out of business.

I remember. I swore then that I'd never buy anything from JPI. Never have. Never
will.

George Patterson
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures. Right next to the
mashed potatoes.

[Kyler Laird]

"Juan Jimenez" > writes:

>That requires that people who a) are customers or b) have been customers,
>and c) have had this happen to them to go on record saying this, Kyler.

That requires little research beyond a trip to Google.

--kyler

[Kyler Laird]

George Patterson > writes:

>> Anyway, here's a blast from the past for everyone to look at. How
>> many remember this embarrassing fiasco where JPI had the money to sue
>> a little guy out of business.

>I remember. I swore then that I'd never buy anything from JPI. Never have. Never
>will.

That's how I feel too and I bought a Gemini engine analyzer right as that
incident was unfolding. But there were several people who made excuses
for JPI and then declared that because they settled with Matronics all
should be forgotten.

I'd like the community to have a longer memory of those who work against it.

--kyler

[Jon A.]

On Wed, 27 Apr 2005 14:08:03 GMT, Kyler Laird >
wrote:

>George Patterson > writes:
>
>>> Anyway, here's a blast from the past for everyone to look at. How
>>> many remember this embarrassing fiasco where JPI had the money to sue
>>> a little guy out of business.
>
>>I remember. I swore then that I'd never buy anything from JPI. Never have. Never
>>will.
>
>That's how I feel too and I bought a Gemini engine analyzer right as that
>incident was unfolding. But there were several people who made excuses
>for JPI and then declared that because they settled with Matronics all
>should be forgotten.

They settled with Matronics because Draile ran out of money. He (JP)
should burn in hell for what he does. I wonder if his wife knows he's
cheating.

>
>I'd like the community to have a longer memory of those who work against it.
>
>--kyler

[soxinbox]

Thanks everyone for putting this topic on the board. I was planning a JPI
install. I already have quotes on the EDM-700.
I have now sent a letter to JPI for info. If they don't provide a good
answer, than I am going to another brand. I can't stand proprietary
information. I just can't imagine the pin head that came up with this
wonderful idea.


> wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> CSnyder wrote:
>> Seems sometime last year JPI decided to eliminate the ability of
> it's
>> scanners to export data in the widely used CSV (comma separated
> fields)
>> format. When a unit is sent in for upgrade or repair they silently
> make
>> this change to the firmware.
>>
>> The only thing you can use to plot your data is their software.
> Won't
>> export to Exel, any other database or any other trend monitoring
> software.
>>
> <snip>
>
> I first heard about this a few months ago. Since I was in the
> market for an analyzer for my new engine, I emailed JPI tech support
> for details. I received a rather arrogant response telling me that
> JPI's EZplot software does anything I'll ever need, so I shouldn't be
> bothered that the unit will not work with any other software.
> Ironically, in the next sentence, the tech mentioned that they are
> still working on EZplot "modules" that will perform some functions of
> EGview. That got me a chuckle.
>
> In the end, I sent JPI an email to let them know that my hard earned
> dollars had gone to Electronics International, who by the way, seem to
> think that the data that comes out of their analyzer is mine to do
> whatever I want with it. The unit is being installed this week.
>
> I personally know of two other owners that have gone with EI in the
> last month for the same reason.
>
> John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)
>

[Matt Barrow]

"soxinbox" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks everyone for putting this topic on the board. I was planning a JPI
> install. I already have quotes on the EDM-700.
> I have now sent a letter to JPI for info. If they don't provide a good
> answer, than I am going to another brand. I can't stand proprietary
> information. I just can't imagine the pin head that came up with this
> wonderful idea.
>
>

Why anyone would buy JPI after what has been demonstrated here is beyond me.

I guess some people are into self-abuse.


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

[Robert M. Gary]

I love my JPI but I haven't updated my software in awhile. From what
I've read on this board, I don't think I will. I wonder if JPI has any
idea how many customers they're losing to this silly decision. If they
were 1/2 smart, they'd provide a free version of the software that just
let you pull the info off and let you put it in exel (which is what I
do today).

-Robert

[Robert M. Gary]

Looks like they've taken their message board down now. :)

[Robert M. Gary]

HEY LOOK. They now have a posting on their page that says they will
convert your data for $5!!! What ****!!!

http://www.jpitech.com/


For immediate assistance please call 800-345-4574


JPI will now convert your downloaded DAT file into a CSV file format
for $ 5 (USD). This feature will be available automatically on this
website in the future, but you can email in your DAT file now for this
conversion process.


(One DAT file stores about 25 Flying hours, at a six second recording
interval which equals roughly 20 CSV files)


For questions or any additional information please email us at:

[Newps]

Robert M. Gary wrote:
> I love my JPI but I haven't updated my software in awhile. From what
> I've read on this board, I don't think I will. I wonder if JPI has any
> idea how many customers they're losing to this silly decision.

According to the director of the Cessna Pilots Assoc, who knows the
marketing rep real well...none that they can tell. Sales have not yet
gone down. He suggested that if you really want to make an impression
you have to tear out your JPI and send it to them along with a copy of
your receipt of the competitors product you bought. Until then you're
just a bunch of whiners and as far as they are concerned there aren't
that many of you.


If they
> were 1/2 smart, they'd provide a free version of the software that just
> let you pull the info off and let you put it in exel (which is what I
> do today).

This is what they just got rid of. Until they can see a slip in sales
they won't do that.

[[email protected]]

Newps wrote:
>
> According to the director of the Cessna Pilots Assoc, who knows the
> marketing rep real well...none that they can tell. Sales have not
yet
> gone down. He suggested that if you really want to make an
impression
> you have to tear out your JPI and send it to them along with a copy
of
> your receipt of the competitors product you bought. Until then
you're
> just a bunch of whiners and as far as they are concerned there aren't

> that many of you.
>
Good idea. I just made a copy of my receipt for the EI unit. I'll
send it off tomorrow.

I don't know why I'm going to all this trouble though. It's not like
I'd do business with them if the went back and allowed the data
conversion. My pre-buy contact with them convinced me that this is
not a company I want anything to do with. Their concept of customer
service seems somewhat warped, IMHO.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

[Robert M. Gary]

I just got an email back from JPI. They said that if I did upgrade my
firmware (I have the older CSV format) that they will provide the
program that reads and plots the data for free. They claim that they
aren't keeping data from anyone, that they give you the software to
read the data for free.


-Robert

[Frank Stutzman]

Robert M. Gary > wrote:
> I just got an email back from JPI. They said that if I did upgrade my
> firmware (I have the older CSV format) that they will provide the
> program that reads and plots the data for free. They claim that they
> aren't keeping data from anyone, that they give you the software to
> read the data for free.

They are giving you your data interpreted as they see fit. This is
opposed to what they used to do which is give you your data and left you
do what you wanted with it. As my preferred data analysis tools don't run
under Windows, I'm not so fond of this new tactic.

--
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
Hood River, OR

[Jon A.]

If you ever send the unit in for repair, they will update the software
regardless of your wishes. A communication was posted on the beech
list where a user asked tech support the question. He specifically
said that he did not want the software in HIS JPI updated and the
answer was, too bad, it's getting the upgrade no matter what you, the
owner, wants. I'd call them all scumbags, but I know they would hunt
me down and sue me to death if I did.

On 28 Apr 2005 08:55:02 -0700, "Robert M. Gary" >
wrote:

>I love my JPI but I haven't updated my software in awhile. From what
>I've read on this board, I don't think I will. I wonder if JPI has any
>idea how many customers they're losing to this silly decision. If they
>were 1/2 smart, they'd provide a free version of the software that just
>let you pull the info off and let you put it in exel (which is what I
>do today).
>
>-Robert

[Jon A.]

On 28 Apr 2005 13:02:49 -0700, "Robert M. Gary" >
wrote:

>I just got an email back from JPI. They said that if I did upgrade my
>firmware (I have the older CSV format) that they will provide the
>program that reads and plots the data for free. They claim that they
>aren't keeping data from anyone, that they give you the software to
>read the data for free.
>
But you still can't use it with the EG Trends software package. They
tell you half-truths. Ask them if it can still be used with EG Trends
and see what they say.

[Jon A.]

On 28 Apr 2005 08:59:36 -0700, "Robert M. Gary" >
wrote:

>Looks like they've taken their message board down now. :)

That's why they don't know how many people are ****ed. they stick
their head in the sand and the sheeple who buy from them just stay fat
and happy, although ignorant.

[Robert M. Gary]

I think that is the real jist of it. JPI doesn't like EG Trends. I
would be interested in really looking at the data coming out of the new
version and see how hard it would be to decode. I would be surprised if
they are actually using any encryption, probably just some simple bit
manipulation.

-Robert

[Jon A.]

As someone here said, now every hacker with a pilot license will be
making JPI's life miserable.

On 28 Apr 2005 18:21:49 -0700, "Robert M. Gary" >
wrote:

>I think that is the real jist of it. JPI doesn't like EG Trends. I
>would be interested in really looking at the data coming out of the new
>version and see how hard it would be to decode. I would be surprised if
>they are actually using any encryption, probably just some simple bit
>manipulation.
>
>-Robert

[Matt Barrow]

> wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> I don't know why I'm going to all this trouble though. It's not like
> I'd do business with them if the went back and allowed the data
> conversion. My pre-buy contact with them convinced me that this is
> not a company I want anything to do with. Their concept of customer
> service seems somewhat warped, IMHO.

If JPI gets an ear (or anal cavity) full, it might do much to enhance the
competition in the market.

Unfortunately, the arrogant let such information go in that ear and out the
other -- it's can't possibly be THEIR fault.

[Javier Henderson]

"Robert M. Gary" > writes:

> I think that is the real jist of it. JPI doesn't like EG Trends. I
> would be interested in really looking at the data coming out of the new
> version and see how hard it would be to decode. I would be surprised if
> they are actually using any encryption, probably just some simple bit
> manipulation.

I'm guessing some variation of run length encoding.

-jav

[Juan Jimenez]

The data in the new file format is not encrypted, it's just not output in a
common format like CSV anymore.

"Javier Henderson" > wrote in message
...
> "Robert M. Gary" > writes:
>
>> I think that is the real jist of it. JPI doesn't like EG Trends. I
>> would be interested in really looking at the data coming out of the new
>> version and see how hard it would be to decode. I would be surprised if
>> they are actually using any encryption, probably just some simple bit
>> manipulation.
>
> I'm guessing some variation of run length encoding.
>
> -jav

[Peter Clark]

On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 02:06:18 -0400, "Juan Jimenez" >
wrote:

>The data in the new file format is not encrypted, it's just not output in a
>common format like CSV anymore.

Excel's import tool seems to have lots of ways to figure out how to
import delineated data. Can't whatever the device is spitting out be
imported somehow by manipulating Excel's import parameters (space
delineated, fixed-length fields, whatever)?

[Newps]

Thought you guys might like to see what the people from JPI are telling
the Cessnq Pilots assoc board.

#1)

Well i'd just like to clear up a few things. First, it is being said
that if your instrument needs any kind of repair that you can Not send
it in because we will update your software on the unit. This is not
true. The software on the unit we only be updated as a customer request.
Second, this is not ottis and I did not attend Sun-N-Fun. My name is
Brandon and you can contact me at anytime if there is something I can do
to help anyone.thank you

#2)

To flight-
Ok Guys-
We've heard alot of stuff- We are all getting a little emotional about
this aren't we- but here's one more reason for JPI's stance an maybe the
most important point- JPI has been developing a system that engine
manufacturers and rebuilders could use to help diagnose engines and
problems. These companies want to offer better warranty and service but
they couldn't do this if the download data could be changed. JPI
couldn't talk about this much till now - CSV files can be changed - DAT
files cannot be changed - get it? By the way JPI will convert any of
your DAT downloads for $5.00 - stand by for the details of this program-

Try to see it from JPI's stand point a little at least-

Also-All of those of you who are going to BUY EI because JPI is being so
bull headed-
So - you're going to buy an inferior product - less features, lower
quality, shorter warranty period (and yes if you compare feature for
feature - about the same price) in order to get a small feature that
really doesn't work very well yet - just to make your point-
REALLY - I gave you pilots more credit than that-
Come on admit that you are being highly influenced by APS, EI and others
and letting emotions control your forum banter- Make your decisions
based on logic and good sense and you'll buy JPI - JPI isn't perfect -
nobody is - but it still is the best Engine Data Management System on
the market and will continue to be - You're not going to be denied
access to your data and JPI is a much better product-- for example the
EI UGB fuel flow option is just fuel flow - no totalizer no time
remaining no fuel used etc-
OK now go ahead an bash me and this reply to your hearts content- but
really don't you have better things to do like go flying and have some fun-
See ya around the patch
Ottis

#3)

Fred - I couldn't find the post where you recommended the EI over the
JPI conversion from a GEM- but this is a reply to both-

Fred old boy-
Your support of EI is just a little too obvious. The EI unit is not as
easy to install as the JPI - JPI's is is a plug and play - EI's is a
rewire nightmare-
Second EI's website is full of inaccuracies - just like your post - Just
like your comment to me at Sun N Fun -
" 90% of Cessna Pilots Association members agree with me"
Let's start a poll- How's that going?

Third- really do a good price comparison and if price is such a big
factor- EI knows what their product is worth- but you'll find prices on
the open market are close

Fourth you should watch what you're accusing JPI of - Lies, threats?

Quit trying to influence smart pilots to go to EI- You're starting to
look not too informed yourself and as if you have your own little agenda.

Ottis


#4)


Quote:
The earlier statement I heard about EI and APS was also told to me
at Sun-N-Fun by your VP Larry. He also told me that EGView GAVE EI the
software for no cost to them. RIGHT! EI is reselling EGView at cost from
what I hear. They are not giving it away. I'm sure JPI could do the same
if they wanted to. Then customers would have a choice.




Just to clear things up this is –Dennis-- on --Mr. Camron's-- username
since I’m currently waiting on my screen name from the Cessna Pilot’s
board. (I should have it soon).

Jerry let me refresh your memory, it is Egview that is in bed with EI,
since EI has now “unofficially” merged with Egview and is selling
Egview’s software along with their useless instrument (I say useless to
today’s standards, since the instrument is a really poor version of the
very 1st EDM that was ever developed).

Now to the second post; it is only one way. JPI can not install an old
software nor would any customer in their right mind (except maybe you
and a couple of your friends on this board) want old software to be
installed on their new instrument. It would be as if I walked into Best
Buy and bought a brand new Pentium 4, 3.2 ghz, 180 MGB, 1GB RAM computer
then asked them to load Dos Shell or Windows 95 as my operating system.

Now, I know that these threads give us all something to talk about, but
I encourage any one with any real sincere question regarding this topic
to email me and I will respond to you no matter how rood, how hostile
and how ignorant some the emails might be (I say this out of experience
from some of the emails that I’ve received over the last couple of
days). My email address is or
. Unfortunately I have no time at work
to respond to these emails, but I promise you I will take my at home
after 6pm to sit down and answer each and every question.

Let me finish this post by saying, my name is really Dennis, it’s also
JPI-Dennis, it’s also Dennis who has a brain of his own, and can make up
his own mind as to whether this issue is just being blown out of
proportion by JPI competitors, or if this is a sincere issue that
effects some of our sincere loyal customers.

JPI is a leader in engine data management and our world wide sales of
instruments (300-400 instruments a month to be exact) and positive
feedback from our world wide customers assures us of such.


#5)

Bill, your condemning words towards a company I work for, is what made
me put up that post in the first place. What would you like me to do,
praise the competition?

Let me ask you this, how useful is Fuel Flow when you can only see GPH?
You don’t get fuel used, fuel remaining, fuel required to destination,
fuel required to waypoint, hours and minutes remaining or fuel reserved.
Even the FS 450 which generally retails for less $575 has all of these
features included. Does the UBG? That’s why I called it useless – to
today’s standards.
-dennis


#6)

Robert, these are just a few posts in on some message boards, and
believe me I am being realistic about this issue. Today we received
several emails from loyal JPI customer offering to go to all of these
websites and represent JPI because they believe in the product and the
excellent service that they have received from JPI over the last several
years.



Now to EI’s “all in one wonder” . At sun and fun I tried using this
instrument and I was told nothing on it is functioning as of now, it is
a display demo unit only. I understand that. When a friend asked them
when one would be available they told him within 2 to 3 yrs. Let’s all
step back and look at what happened to Vision Microsystems and the VM
1000. Vision had business longer then EI has, they were making twice as
much money as EI had been making and they were dominating the
experimental aircraft circle. They went in over their heads with the VM
1000 (similar to the EDM 900) and JPI had to buy them out to keep them
in business. Let me assure you that JPI will not buy out EI. So make
sure that you will have support for your EI products in the long run.

-Dennis

#7)

Quote:
But neither the EDM 700 nor the UBG 16 has all those features in
it. Let's compare apples to apples. If I want all those features and I
have an EDM 700, I have to buy the FS450 for $895 list with transducer.
If I have a UBG16, I have to add the FP-5L ($748 list with transducer)
to get those features. It's another box either way, unless I'm missing
something.



Since you wanted to compare apples to apples as you stated, (if I
remember right!?) why do we have to drift away from EI’s useless UBG 16
and talk about an instrument that they had to design separate form the
UBG to do these functions? The EDM , as I said preciously integrates all
of these features.

-Dennis


#8)

[Kyler Laird]

"Robert M. Gary" > writes:

>I just got an email back from JPI. They said that if I did upgrade my
>firmware (I have the older CSV format) that they will provide the
>program that reads and plots the data for free. They claim that they
>aren't keeping data from anyone, that they give you the software to
>read the data for free.

You get the source code for that program? If not, it's quite a
half-assed measure.

--kyler

[[email protected]]

Newps wrote:
> Thought you guys might like to see what the people from JPI are
telling
> the Cessnq Pilots assoc board.
>
<snip>

Those are really amusing. It seems that since I decided to buy the
EI unit, I was somehow "influenced" by EI and APS (whoever they are),
and have fallen victim to their competitors hype. In fact, the only
manufacturer that I contacted before making my decision was JPI. It
was their "influence" that drove my purchase decision. What a maroon!

The JPI folks seem to be a bit paranoid on this issue. Their
decision to lock the customer into a single software option was, well,
their decision. Now they're trying to make it sound like some sort of
conspiracy against JPI. Sounds like they've hired a former utralight
magazine publisher to do their PR :-)

Bottom line is that JPI locks you into JPI's EZplot software and EI
does not. That's it. If you're happy and confident that EZplot will
(as JPI arrogantly claims) do anything that any other software product
can do, then there's no problem. Personally, I don't buy it (pun
intended). They can make excuses all day long, but the bottom line
stands. That they have the nerve to offer to convert your data to a
reasonable format for $5 is just an additional slap in the face to the
customer.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

[Blanche]

Rule of thumb in marketing (or any time you admit that you work for
a specific company and DO NOT add a disclaimer that what is stated
is your personal opinion and not company policy) is NOT to bash
the competition but to point out the benefits of your product.

And, when representing the employer (which Dennis, Ottis and the
third writer in the posting never denied) talk to your marketing
and legal staff first. Otherwise you make claims that cannot be
substantiated.

And learn to spell.

"rood" is either a religious object or a British measurement.

end of soapbox

[Jon A.]

This guy "Dennis" sure is an arrogant ****.

If anyone is interested, I can repost the communication between the
JPI tech and a Beech list member where it says that the data WILL be
changed regardless of what the owner wants. This reply to the Cessna
people starts off with a lie, so how can anyone even think about
believing the rest of it? If I post it, please send it along to the
Cessna guys.

#2, it's there already and JPI is ****ed that someone else figured it
out. The author might have a mind of his own, but the only time he
uses it is to lie. Contact the Pope. he needs to hear about this
crap!

#3, I wonder how the competition stays in business with an inferior
product. I guess everyone that buys other than JPI is an idiot in
their eyes.

Can't go on. This guy needs a good swift kick in the head.


Fri, 29 Apr 2005 09:03:37 -0600, Newps > wrote:

>Thought you guys might like to see what the people from JPI are telling
>the Cessnq Pilots assoc board.
>
>#1)
>
>Well i'd just like to clear up a few things. First, it is being said
>that if your instrument needs any kind of repair that you can Not send
>it in because we will update your software on the unit. This is not
>true. The software on the unit we only be updated as a customer request.
>Second, this is not ottis and I did not attend Sun-N-Fun. My name is
>Brandon and you can contact me at anytime if there is something I can do
>to help anyone.thank you
>
>#2)
>
>To flight-
>Ok Guys-
>We've heard alot of stuff- We are all getting a little emotional about
>this aren't we- but here's one more reason for JPI's stance an maybe the
>most important point- JPI has been developing a system that engine
>manufacturers and rebuilders could use to help diagnose engines and
>problems. These companies want to offer better warranty and service but
>they couldn't do this if the download data could be changed. JPI
>couldn't talk about this much till now - CSV files can be changed - DAT
>files cannot be changed - get it? By the way JPI will convert any of
>your DAT downloads for $5.00 - stand by for the details of this program-
>
>Try to see it from JPI's stand point a little at least-
>
>Also-All of those of you who are going to BUY EI because JPI is being so
>bull headed-
>So - you're going to buy an inferior product - less features, lower
>quality, shorter warranty period (and yes if you compare feature for
>feature - about the same price) in order to get a small feature that
>really doesn't work very well yet - just to make your point-
>REALLY - I gave you pilots more credit than that-
>Come on admit that you are being highly influenced by APS, EI and others
>and letting emotions control your forum banter- Make your decisions
>based on logic and good sense and you'll buy JPI - JPI isn't perfect -
>nobody is - but it still is the best Engine Data Management System on
>the market and will continue to be - You're not going to be denied
>access to your data and JPI is a much better product-- for example the
>EI UGB fuel flow option is just fuel flow - no totalizer no time
>remaining no fuel used etc-
>OK now go ahead an bash me and this reply to your hearts content- but
>really don't you have better things to do like go flying and have some fun-
>See ya around the patch
>Ottis
>
>#3)
>
>Fred - I couldn't find the post where you recommended the EI over the
>JPI conversion from a GEM- but this is a reply to both-
>
>Fred old boy-
>Your support of EI is just a little too obvious. The EI unit is not as
>easy to install as the JPI - JPI's is is a plug and play - EI's is a
>rewire nightmare-
>Second EI's website is full of inaccuracies - just like your post - Just
>like your comment to me at Sun N Fun -
>" 90% of Cessna Pilots Association members agree with me"
>Let's start a poll- How's that going?
>
>Third- really do a good price comparison and if price is such a big
>factor- EI knows what their product is worth- but you'll find prices on
>the open market are close
>
>Fourth you should watch what you're accusing JPI of - Lies, threats?
>
>Quit trying to influence smart pilots to go to EI- You're starting to
>look not too informed yourself and as if you have your own little agenda.
>
>Ottis
>
>
>#4)
>
>
> Quote:
> The earlier statement I heard about EI and APS was also told to me
>at Sun-N-Fun by your VP Larry. He also told me that EGView GAVE EI the
>software for no cost to them. RIGHT! EI is reselling EGView at cost from
>what I hear. They are not giving it away. I'm sure JPI could do the same
>if they wanted to. Then customers would have a choice.
>
>
>
>
>Just to clear things up this is –Dennis-- on --Mr. Camron's-- username
>since I’m currently waiting on my screen name from the Cessna Pilot’s
>board. (I should have it soon).
>
>Jerry let me refresh your memory, it is Egview that is in bed with EI,
>since EI has now “unofficially” merged with Egview and is selling
>Egview’s software along with their useless instrument (I say useless to
>today’s standards, since the instrument is a really poor version of the
>very 1st EDM that was ever developed).
>
>Now to the second post; it is only one way. JPI can not install an old
>software nor would any customer in their right mind (except maybe you
>and a couple of your friends on this board) want old software to be
>installed on their new instrument. It would be as if I walked into Best
>Buy and bought a brand new Pentium 4, 3.2 ghz, 180 MGB, 1GB RAM computer
>then asked them to load Dos Shell or Windows 95 as my operating system.
>
>Now, I know that these threads give us all something to talk about, but
>I encourage any one with any real sincere question regarding this topic
>to email me and I will respond to you no matter how rood, how hostile
>and how ignorant some the emails might be (I say this out of experience
>from some of the emails that I’ve received over the last couple of
>days). My email address is or
. Unfortunately I have no time at work
>to respond to these emails, but I promise you I will take my at home
>after 6pm to sit down and answer each and every question.
>
>Let me finish this post by saying, my name is really Dennis, it’s also
>JPI-Dennis, it’s also Dennis who has a brain of his own, and can make up
>his own mind as to whether this issue is just being blown out of
>proportion by JPI competitors, or if this is a sincere issue that
>effects some of our sincere loyal customers.
>
>JPI is a leader in engine data management and our world wide sales of
>instruments (300-400 instruments a month to be exact) and positive
>feedback from our world wide customers assures us of such.
>
>
>#5)
>
>Bill, your condemning words towards a company I work for, is what made
>me put up that post in the first place. What would you like me to do,
>praise the competition?
>
>Let me ask you this, how useful is Fuel Flow when you can only see GPH?
>You don’t get fuel used, fuel remaining, fuel required to destination,
>fuel required to waypoint, hours and minutes remaining or fuel reserved.
>Even the FS 450 which generally retails for less $575 has all of these
>features included. Does the UBG? That’s why I called it useless – to
>today’s standards.
>-dennis
>
>
>#6)
>
>Robert, these are just a few posts in on some message boards, and
>believe me I am being realistic about this issue. Today we received
>several emails from loyal JPI customer offering to go to all of these
>websites and represent JPI because they believe in the product and the
>excellent service that they have received from JPI over the last several
>years.
>
>
>
>Now to EI’s “all in one wonder” . At sun and fun I tried using this
>instrument and I was told nothing on it is functioning as of now, it is
>a display demo unit only. I understand that. When a friend asked them
>when one would be available they told him within 2 to 3 yrs. Let’s all
>step back and look at what happened to Vision Microsystems and the VM
>1000. Vision had business longer then EI has, they were making twice as
>much money as EI had been making and they were dominating the
>experimental aircraft circle. They went in over their heads with the VM
>1000 (similar to the EDM 900) and JPI had to buy them out to keep them
>in business. Let me assure you that JPI will not buy out EI. So make
>sure that you will have support for your EI products in the long run.
>
>-Dennis
>
>#7)
>
> Quote:
> But neither the EDM 700 nor the UBG 16 has all those features in
>it. Let's compare apples to apples. If I want all those features and I
>have an EDM 700, I have to buy the FS450 for $895 list with transducer.
>If I have a UBG16, I have to add the FP-5L ($748 list with transducer)
>to get those features. It's another box either way, unless I'm missing
>something.
>
>
>
>Since you wanted to compare apples to apples as you stated, (if I
>remember right!?) why do we have to drift away from EI’s useless UBG 16
>and talk about an instrument that they had to design separate form the
>UBG to do these functions? The EDM , as I said preciously integrates all
>of these features.
>
>-Dennis
>
>
>#8)