FAA Inspector overstepping his authority (I think)

[Screwed]

Hi everyone,

I've noticed there are some very knowledgable people on this list.
Maybe you can confirm / dispute some information.

A close friend is leasing his plane to a local school. The school has
had some maintenance documentation issues in the past. A local FSDO
inspector has been a real prick about it lately -- even threatening to
fine anyone who flies one of their planes until HE gives the go ahead.
Ted's plane didn't have a single thing wrong with it, and three days
of nonsense paperwork later -- it was cleared to fly again. But that
was three days of lost revenue this guy caused. And that was just one
case of his bull****.

Well, now this inspector is talking about pulling the airworthiness
certifications for all the planes at the school. Then each owner
would have to go to HIM with the mechanic and logs to show that
everything is properly documented before he would return the
certificate.

Discussions with two or three older / more experienced IAs on the
field found a general consensus that this inspector doesn't have the
authority to pull the airworthiness certificates from all the planes
indescriminately. At lease, not without an inspection that finds a
problem.

Do we have anyone on the list with experience in this area of the
regulations. There are just so many of them and most of the language
is "leagaliese" that its almost impossible to know for sure. But I
figured if someone else had experienced a situation with another
self-bloated inspector -- they might know the abilities of a FSDO
airworthiness inspector.

Thanks guys. Ted is pulling his hair out keeping from hitting this
guy....

[Blanche]

if your friend is a member of AOPA, have him call at once.
If not a member of AOPA, become one now.
Check the local attorney list in your area and find one
that specializes in aviation law.

[Dude]

"Screwed" > wrote in message
...
> Hi everyone,
>
> I've noticed there are some very knowledgable people on this list.
> Maybe you can confirm / dispute some information.
>
> A close friend is leasing his plane to a local school. The school has
> had some maintenance documentation issues in the past. A local FSDO
> inspector has been a real prick about it lately -- even threatening to
> fine anyone who flies one of their planes until HE gives the go ahead.
> Ted's plane didn't have a single thing wrong with it, and three days
> of nonsense paperwork later -- it was cleared to fly again. But that
> was three days of lost revenue this guy caused. And that was just one
> case of his bull****.
>
> Well, now this inspector is talking about pulling the airworthiness
> certifications for all the planes at the school. Then each owner
> would have to go to HIM with the mechanic and logs to show that
> everything is properly documented before he would return the
> certificate.
>
> Discussions with two or three older / more experienced IAs on the
> field found a general consensus that this inspector doesn't have the
> authority to pull the airworthiness certificates from all the planes
> indescriminately. At lease, not without an inspection that finds a
> problem.
>
> Do we have anyone on the list with experience in this area of the
> regulations. There are just so many of them and most of the language
> is "leagaliese" that its almost impossible to know for sure. But I
> figured if someone else had experienced a situation with another
> self-bloated inspector -- they might know the abilities of a FSDO
> airworthiness inspector.
>
> Thanks guys. Ted is pulling his hair out keeping from hitting this
> guy....
>
>
>

With no particular authority, here are some suggestions:

One, suggest to Ted that he should not speak with the inspector and stay
away from him.

Two, it doesn't matter whether the inspector has the authority to do this or
not unless someone over his head intervenes. FAA types can demand anything
they want because never did a plane leave the ground that they could not
have grounded or at least delayed for SOMETHING.

The fight seems to be between the Operator (the school) and the inspector.
Ted is the Owner, which in my view gives him a bit of cover from the main
brawl. What do you think would happen if Ted wrote a nice letter to the
Manager of the local FSDO stating that he is greatly concerned about the
disagreement between the Operator and the Inspector? Ted should explain
that he would appreciate a list from the MANAGER of what violations or
concerns his office has about his aircraft and the Operator in writing.
Note that the cost of the plane being grounded is not small, and that he
needs the FSDO to either approve the plane for flight, or give him a letter
that he can use to take the Operator to task with. Note that due to the
financial hardship he requests prompt attention and that he intends to
continue pursuing the matter diligently.

I think this will cause the Manager to get the situation fixed straight
away. Otherwise, Ted will likely go over his head. Also, he will have a
much harder time putting things in writing than using the usual verbal
threats. These guys are terrified of anything inappropriate being in
writing. Unfortunately, there is a chance here that they will circle the
wagons and close the FBO.

While Ted is likely really mad, the Operator is the guy that could lose his
business here. Ted may just have to find another leaseback opportunity.

[Steve Foley]

The school owner should be talking to a lawyer.

If it were my plane, I would pull it off the line and find somewhere else to
lease it. I don't need to tangle with the FAA for someone else, and don't
want to pay a lawyer for something I can avoid. This is the school's fight,
not the aircraft owner.


"Screwed" > wrote in message
...
> Hi everyone,
>
> I've noticed there are some very knowledgable people on this list.
> Maybe you can confirm / dispute some information.
>
> A close friend is leasing his plane to a local school. The school has
> had some maintenance documentation issues in the past. A local FSDO
> inspector has been a real prick about it lately -- even threatening to
> fine anyone who flies one of their planes until HE gives the go ahead.
> Ted's plane didn't have a single thing wrong with it, and three days
> of nonsense paperwork later -- it was cleared to fly again. But that
> was three days of lost revenue this guy caused. And that was just one
> case of his bull****.
>
> Well, now this inspector is talking about pulling the airworthiness
> certifications for all the planes at the school. Then each owner
> would have to go to HIM with the mechanic and logs to show that
> everything is properly documented before he would return the
> certificate.
>
> Discussions with two or three older / more experienced IAs on the
> field found a general consensus that this inspector doesn't have the
> authority to pull the airworthiness certificates from all the planes
> indescriminately. At lease, not without an inspection that finds a
> problem.
>
> Do we have anyone on the list with experience in this area of the
> regulations. There are just so many of them and most of the language
> is "leagaliese" that its almost impossible to know for sure. But I
> figured if someone else had experienced a situation with another
> self-bloated inspector -- they might know the abilities of a FSDO
> airworthiness inspector.
>
> Thanks guys. Ted is pulling his hair out keeping from hitting this
> guy....
>
>
>

[Jon A.]

Obviously there is something wrong between the inspector and the
school and that needs to be resolved before anything else happens.
The operator may have thrown this guy out on his ass one day, which
probably many of you are thinking they would do! Ditto the AOPA legal
thing and if it were me, I would pull the a/c out of the lease until
everything blows over. As a stretch, he could further consult an
attorney and discuss the possibilities of recovering compensation from
this inspector personally if his Hitler-like practices have
overstepped the authority given to him by the US Government. That
message/action, if successful, would certainly be communicated through
the ranks of the FAA and dwindle down to the guys with the little
dicks attempting to prove something as well as those who are just
trying to make a living.


On Mon, 02 May 2005 10:47:11 GMT, "Steve Foley"
> wrote:

>The school owner should be talking to a lawyer.
>
>If it were my plane, I would pull it off the line and find somewhere else to
>lease it. I don't need to tangle with the FAA for someone else, and don't
>want to pay a lawyer for something I can avoid. This is the school's fight,
>not the aircraft owner.

[[email protected]]

there are two sides to this story. I have been working on aircraft for
more than 40 years , problems between the FAA & operators are a two
sided street , the fAA finds a problem asks the operator to fix then
things need to get repaired or fixed

there might be a lease that's not worded correctly or maintenance
issues if the FAA writes a letter or violation thru fars . it in legal
hands not good

he can ground aircraft & have you bring him or her paper work to his
office to show how things are fixed or repaired
& release the aircraft for flight

if they take the airworthy certificate things are not going well

[joe]

A PMI has NO authority to TAKE your airworthiness certificate, Or your
pilots license for that matter...... He can ask to see it and you must
show him, but he will not touch it!!!

He can not even Delay your flight to conduct a ramp check..... tell em
to take a hike


Joe


wrote:
> there are two sides to this story. I have been working on aircraft
for
> more than 40 years , problems between the FAA & operators are a two
> sided street , the fAA finds a problem asks the operator to fix then
> things need to get repaired or fixed
>
> there might be a lease that's not worded correctly or maintenance
> issues if the FAA writes a letter or violation thru fars . it in
legal
> hands not good
>
> he can ground aircraft & have you bring him or her paper work to his
> office to show how things are fixed or repaired
> & release the aircraft for flight
>
> if they take the airworthy certificate things are not going well

[Ron Natalie]

joe wrote:
> A PMI has NO authority to TAKE your airworthiness certificate, Or your
> pilots license for that matter...... He can ask to see it and you must
> show him, but he will not touch it!!!
>

He can touch it all he wants. Showing it for inspection is NOT
voluntary surrender under the rules. That's an old wives tail.