Planeless in Indianapolis

[Jon Kraus]

We are in the middle of our first annual for 43H and it seems to be
taking longer than I thought. I figured on about a week from beginning
to end... Wrong!! After it is said and done it looks like it is going to
take around a month. Ran into a couple unexpected items (sound
familiar) that require out of state help. First our exhaust system needs
to be rebuilt so it was sent to a place in Minnesota. This was back on
April 18th and it still isn't back yet. Next was the nosewheel truss and
pivot mount. One piece went out to Utah and the other to California.
Heck my planes parts are doing more traveling than I am!! :-)

I am expecting the exhaust on Monday and the the nosewheel pieces by the
end of next week or early the week after. So it could possible that this
annual takes a month.

Question do most first new owner annual's take a long time? How bout
some story's about your annual experiences?

Thanks!!

Jon Kraus
Planeless in Indianapolis

[A Lieberman]

On Sat, 07 May 2005 00:31:56 GMT, Jon Kraus wrote:

> First our exhaust system needs
> to be rebuilt so it was sent to a place in Minnesota. This was back on
> April 18th and it still isn't back yet. Next was the nosewheel truss and
> pivot mount. One piece went out to Utah and the other to California.
> Heck my planes parts are doing more traveling than I am!! :-)

Sorry to hear this Jon! None of this showed up on the prebuy? Sounds like
at least the nosewheel problem would have shown some discrepancy? What
happened to be able to discover this?

> Question do most first new owner annual's take a long time? How bout
> some story's about your annual experiences?

My first annual was just short of 2 weeks. Crank bell assembly in the
aileron was partially broke (A$P apologized for not catching this on my
pre-buy inspection), lots of goodies for an underused plane, and $5000
dollars later, all was well. My last annual lasted about 1 week, with no
unusual squawks.

I have my 411 and 413 due this month, so hopefully, no unpleasant surprises
show up. I know my altimeter needs an adjustment. It's about 50 feet off.
Everything else looks good from my side, hopefully everything will check
out ok.

Allen

[George Patterson]

Jon Kraus wrote:
>
> Question do most first new owner annual's take a long time? How bout
> some story's about your annual experiences?

I've owned two aircraft. Neither one had anything unusual at the first annual.
Of course, I bought one of them new, but the other was 30 years old at the time.

George Patterson
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures. Right next to the
mashed potatoes.

[Jon Kraus]

> Sorry to hear this Jon! None of this showed up on the prebuy? Sounds like
> at least the nosewheel problem would have shown some discrepancy? What
> happened to be able to discover this?

My partner and I think we pretty much got ripped off on our pre-buy
because the nosewheel was loose but the mechanic said it was OK. It
wasn't. He did catch a crack in the muffler but the whole exhaust was
basically shot.

> I have my 411 and 413 due this month, so hopefully, no unpleasant surprises
> show up. I know my altimeter needs an adjustment. It's about 50 feet off.
> Everything else looks good from my side, hopefully everything will check
> out ok.
We already had the 411 and 413 check done last month. Everything there
checked out good. One small leak in a static line that was corrected by
tightning a fitting.

Good Luck

Jon Kraus

[Jack Allison]

Bummer Jon. Hope you get your plane back soon...and not at the extreme
AMU end of the spectrum either.

Funny that parts of the plane are everywhere. I hope they all meet back
up successfully :-)


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student
Arrow N2104T

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[Dude]

"Jon Kraus" > wrote in message
.. .
> We are in the middle of our first annual for 43H and it seems to be taking
> longer than I thought. I figured on about a week from beginning to end...
> Wrong!! After it is said and done it looks like it is going to take around
> a month. Ran into a couple unexpected items (sound familiar) that require
> out of state help. First our exhaust system needs to be rebuilt so it was
> sent to a place in Minnesota. This was back on April 18th and it still
> isn't back yet. Next was the nosewheel truss and pivot mount. One piece
> went out to Utah and the other to California. Heck my planes parts are
> doing more traveling than I am!! :-)
>
> I am expecting the exhaust on Monday and the the nosewheel pieces by the
> end of next week or early the week after. So it could possible that this
> annual takes a month.
>
> Question do most first new owner annual's take a long time? How bout some
> story's about your annual experiences?
>
> Thanks!!
>
> Jon Kraus
> Planeless in Indianapolis
>

Jon,

Someone said to expect 20% of the purchase price to be spent on the first
annual. They were right. Unless you buy new, you can easily see that
number pop up. It's a crap shoot.

Some say you can avoid this with a good prebuy, but then again, you can
spend 10g on prebuys looking for the right plane.

If you buy new, it depreciates like a yellow banana for the first few years.

This is the cost of playing the game. It's worth it, and it won't always
happen. But if you are prepared, you can still enjoy it.

[Steve Foley]

My annual was 110% of the purchase price.

"Dude" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jon Kraus" > wrote in message
> .. .
> > We are in the middle of our first annual for 43H and it seems to be
taking
> > longer than I thought. I figured on about a week from beginning to
end...
> > Wrong!! After it is said and done it looks like it is going to take
around
> > a month. Ran into a couple unexpected items (sound familiar) that
require
> > out of state help. First our exhaust system needs to be rebuilt so it
was
> > sent to a place in Minnesota. This was back on April 18th and it still
> > isn't back yet. Next was the nosewheel truss and pivot mount. One piece
> > went out to Utah and the other to California. Heck my planes parts are
> > doing more traveling than I am!! :-)
> >
> > I am expecting the exhaust on Monday and the the nosewheel pieces by the
> > end of next week or early the week after. So it could possible that this
> > annual takes a month.
> >
> > Question do most first new owner annual's take a long time? How bout
some
> > story's about your annual experiences?
> >
> > Thanks!!
> >
> > Jon Kraus
> > Planeless in Indianapolis
> >
>
> Jon,
>
> Someone said to expect 20% of the purchase price to be spent on the first
> annual. They were right. Unless you buy new, you can easily see that
> number pop up. It's a crap shoot.
>
> Some say you can avoid this with a good prebuy, but then again, you can
> spend 10g on prebuys looking for the right plane.
>
> If you buy new, it depreciates like a yellow banana for the first few
years.
>
> This is the cost of playing the game. It's worth it, and it won't always
> happen. But if you are prepared, you can still enjoy it.
>
>

[SAC]

Well Jon,

Let me guess your exhaust went to AWI to be overhauled. I could be wrong,
but I only say that because I only found a couple of places that did that
work along with engine mount repairs. They were 2+ weeks late on our shroud
work and we had to send our Lance mount to them 3 times before they got it
right. It's been an experience and we've had our plane down for three
months waiting on out-of-state shops. I hope yours goes better.

Our club 4 planes fly 300-500 hours a year so our annuals are usually pretty
expensive. Good luck to you.

SAC


"Jon Kraus" > wrote in message
.. .
> We are in the middle of our first annual for 43H and it seems to be taking
> longer than I thought. I figured on about a week from beginning to end...
> Wrong!! After it is said and done it looks like it is going to take around
> a month. Ran into a couple unexpected items (sound familiar) that require
> out of state help. First our exhaust system needs to be rebuilt so it was
> sent to a place in Minnesota. This was back on April 18th and it still
> isn't back yet. Next was the nosewheel truss and pivot mount. One piece
> went out to Utah and the other to California. Heck my planes parts are
> doing more traveling than I am!! :-)
>
> I am expecting the exhaust on Monday and the the nosewheel pieces by the
> end of next week or early the week after. So it could possible that this
> annual takes a month.
>
> Question do most first new owner annual's take a long time? How bout some
> story's about your annual experiences?
>
> Thanks!!
>
> Jon Kraus
> Planeless in Indianapolis
>

[Mike Spera]

Our prebuy was spot on. The first annual was around $900 or so. Needed a
new alternator belt (requiring removal of the prop), a couple of new
tires, and some misc. other little stuff. It needed tires because my
wife and I put 200 hours of training on it before the annual.

I prepare the plane for annual myself by changing tires, servicing
bearings, changing oil, and doing all other cleaning, adjusting, and
repairing BEFORE we get to the annual. So, our annuals are quick and
inexpensive. However, we spend money and search down parts during the
year, so we don't have the plane down during annual. Rather, it is down
according to our schedule.

I work with a retired IA. I source the parts because he hates that work.
I do the work at his place with his tools. He does the inspections and
paperwork.

Most FBOs complain about the problems with sourcing parts and parts
delays, however, they refuse to let you bring your own. If you get the
parts, they lose the markup and (according to them) expose them to
increased liability if your parts go South.

There are many reasons why many first annuals are so expensive. First,
the buyer generally does not have a clue of what they are buying.
Second, many mechanics are not well versed in the airplanes they are
doing pre-buys on. Next, buyers don't want to spend the dough to get
thorough inspections. Last, most sellers will not allow their planes to
be torn down by unknown mechanics. There are plenty of ignorant buyers
who will buy without a pre-buy. Some will buy sight unseen.

Another big reason first annuals are expensive revolves around the
differing opinions of owners and mechanics of what "airworthy", "safe",
and "good condition" mean. One owner (and mechanic's) "creampuff" is
another owner (and mechanic's) "flying junk". When you buy an airplane,
you typically change mechanics from the prior owner's wrench to your
own. Stuff the previous mechanic(s) passed may not be kosher to your
new guy. This problem bleeds over to pre-buys also. One mechanic may
report a couple of minor problems and another may spot $10k in
"necessary" repairs.

One other little challenge. If a car mechanic tells you your car needs
$3000 worth of repairs and you want another opinion, you can drive away
and get one. Once you hand the keys to the FBO for an annual, most
people think they are trapped. Not so. You can make it perfectly clear
that you may NOT have the FBO do any work they say the plane needs and
you may take it somewhere else (paying them for their diagnostic time,
of course). But, most won't do that.

Opinions vary.

Good Luck,
Mike

>> Question do most first new owner annual's take a long time? How bout
>> some story's about your annual experiences?
>

[B. Jensen]

Jon,

If it's any comfort, Aerospace Welding in MN is a great place to have
exhaust welding done...it will be done right.

BJ

Jon Kraus wrote:

> First our exhaust system needs to be rebuilt so it was sent to a place
> in Minnesota. This was back on April 18th and it still isn't back yet.
> Next was the nosewheel truss and pivot mount. One piece went out to
> Utah and the other to California. Heck my planes parts are doing more
> traveling than I am!! :-)
>
> I am expecting the exhaust on Monday and the the nosewheel pieces by
> the end of next week or early the week after. So it could possible
> that this annual takes a month.

[Jon Kraus]

Thanks!! I did hear that they do great work. We should be back in
action in a week or so...

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL-IA
'79 Mooney 201

B. Jensen wrote:
> Jon,
>
> If it's any comfort, Aerospace Welding in MN is a great place to have
> exhaust welding done...it will be done right.
>
> BJ
>
> Jon Kraus wrote:
>
>> First our exhaust system needs to be rebuilt so it was sent to a place
>> in Minnesota. This was back on April 18th and it still isn't back yet.
>> Next was the nosewheel truss and pivot mount. One piece went out to
>> Utah and the other to California. Heck my planes parts are doing more
>> traveling than I am!! :-)
>>
>> I am expecting the exhaust on Monday and the the nosewheel pieces by
>> the end of next week or early the week after. So it could possible
>> that this annual takes a month.
>
>

[[email protected]]

Not surprising. A friend used to budget $5K on an airplane like this
to bring it up to what he thought he was buying.

Bill Hale