Narrow Runways

[Kyle Boatright]

What's the narrowest runway you've ever used? At what runway width are you
comfortable? Among other things, I had an interesting experience yesterday
with a runway that was far narrower than any I'd used before...

We had gone to Dallas for Mother's day, and returned to Atlanta yesterday in
my RV-6, which is set-up for basic VFR. The weather was marginal for most
of the way, and we made two unscheduled stops and a couple of 180 degree
course reversals to avoid weather that was below my minimums. This turned a
3.5 hour trip into an 8 hour odyssey.

Our first 180 turn and unscheduled stop occurred when the ceiling was lower
than forecast, below my personal minimums, and dropping along our route of
flight. I hit the "nearest" function on the GPS, and retreated to the
nearest airfield to give the FSS a call on the cell phone (we were too low
for radio communication). As we overflew the airfield, I noticed that all
it was was a paved strip and a paved ramp. No buildings nearby. Also, the
strip looked fairly narrow, but I went ahead with the landing anyway.

On very short final, it became obvious that this strip redefined narrow.
Accoring to the AFD, it is 50' wide, but what the AFD didn't say is that 3'
tall sagebrush grows right to the edge of the strip, and occasionally cuts
into the 50' useful width. Given that 3' sagebrush will hit the RV-6's
wingtips, I probably had 10'-12' clear on each side. Catching the sagebrush
with a wingtip would have almost certainly caused a groundloop.

With this in mind, and concentrating hard enough to cause permanant forehead
wrinkles, I managed to keep the airplane centered on landing and rollout,
then taxiied (sp?) to the ramp, where I shut down, pulled out the cell phone
and got exactly zero signal... (Sometimes you can't win.)

So, we fired up again, taxiied out, and I kept the bird out of the weeds on
takeoff and off we went. In the 30 minutes our detour consumed, the weather
along the route improved meaningfully, and we made another 225 miles before
the next unplanned stop.

After a 3 hour wait and a couple of visits with the on-field FSS at
Greenville, MS, we found a safe path around the line of storms on the
Alabama/Mississippi border and came on home. One of the real advantages to
a relatively high performance airplane is that if the weather allows, you
can get above most of the cumulus and eyeball your way around the convective
stuff. I'm not sure we would have gotten around yesterday's weather in a
C-172 or Cherokee...

[Grumman-581]

"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message ...
> What's the narrowest runway you've ever used?

Not sure... My current runway is 25 ft wide... It definitely seems narrow,
but there's plenty of grass on either side that I could land on also, I
guess...

> At what runway width are you comfortable?

Well, I don't feel *uncomfortable* with this one, but most of my flights are
probably from an airport with a 50 ft wide runway with ditches along a good
portion of it, so rolling off the side would definitely *not* be a good
idea...

> This turned a 3.5 hour trip into an 8 hour odyssey.

Ahhhh... The dreaded "scenic route"... <grin>

[Jose]

> What's the narrowest runway you've ever used?

I've used runways whose paving was barely wide enough for the wheels.
Somehow my approaches are better at such fields - even if I pretend that
the big dotted line of a wider runway =is= the entire runway. Dunno why
- must be the sight picture.

However, I've never landed at a field where wing clearance was an issue.

Jose

--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Marc J. Zeitlin]

Kyle Boatright asks:

> What's the narrowest runway you've ever used?

In my COZY MKIV, 40 ft., I think. Wingspan is 29.5 ft. or so. There
were trees/bushes on one side of the runway, and I ticked a couple of
bushes with one wingtip while turning around at the runway's end. I've
landed on 40 ft. wide runways with nothing on either side many times,
with no issues, with up to 10 kt. crosswinds.

>.....At what runway width are you comfortable?

I think I'd be OK with 25-30 ft, depending upon how much crosswind there
was, and how long the runway was for takeoff. If there's no flora off
to the sides, then even narrower would be OK - keeping the plane within
5 ft. of the centerline isn't really a problem, and the gear width is
about 6-7 ft. or so.

--
Marc J. Zeitlin
http://marc.zeitlin.home.comcast.net/
http://www.cozybuilders.org/
Copyright (c) 2005

[KayInPA]

Kyle Boatright wrote:
> What's the narrowest runway you've ever used?
> At what runway width are you comfortable?

38 feet.
39 feet.

:)
Kay

[Casey Wilson]

"Kyle Boatright" > wrote in message
...
> What's the narrowest runway you've ever used? At what runway width are
> you comfortable? Among other things, I had an interesting experience
> yesterday with a runway that was far narrower than any I'd used before...
>

<<< SNIP! >>>

Trona, California, L72. Runway 17/35 is 6000 feet long and 60 feet
wide.
One of my early problems was flying at IYK with the 150 wide runways,
I was somewhat casual about the center line. Hey, in a 150 Aerobat who cares
if you are a wing width off to one side or the other?
My first experience at L72 was on my second hour of night dual. My CFI,
Bob Mikesell, had me fly over to Trona. Cocky ole me, I had mastered the
night visual approach at IYK -- piece 'o cake, says I. So Bob has me fly
over L72 and check the wind-T, then do all the proper things about entering
downwind on a 45, GUMPS, base, and split the lights on final.
As a small aside here, flaps were not a routine part of landing back in
1973 unless soft- or short-field, or some other exigency required them.
I crossed the threshold on that pitch-black night somewhat to the right
of the center-line. The visual difference in surface texture didn't
register. The runway edge lights were way over there on the right and way
over there on the left. I flared at the perfect height and kept easing back
on the yoke, easing back, easing ba... and touchdown... THERE WAS THE GOD
AWFULEST RACKET I HAD EVER HEARD!
I didn't wait for Bob... In went the Carb Heat. Firewall went the
throttle. Wallow went the little airplane back into the air to escape the
horrendous noise. With the nose down, the airspeed built up until I was
flying again.
When I looked over at Mr. Mikesell, he actually had tears running down
his cheeks he was laughing so hard. I had almost pee'd my pants and I know I
sucked half the cushion off the seat. And he is laughing.
Finally, he says, "I don't ever want to tell you about the center-line
again."
You see, the runway at L72 was 150 feet wide..., well no, the lights
were 150' wide. The paved part was only 60. The rest of the space between
the asphalt and the lights was gravel.
Bob died of a heart attack several years ago, so you don't need to make
any critical remarks about him letting a student ding up the 150's paint
flying onto the gravel. Besides, it didn't do any noticable paint damage
anyway.
Thirty-two years later, I can still hear Bob laughing when I'm on final
and I get the center-line more than a wheel-span off to either side.

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN]

Kyle Boatright wrote:
> What's the narrowest runway you've ever used? At what runway width are you
> comfortable? Among other things, I had an interesting experience yesterday
> with a runway that was far narrower than any I'd used before...



I can remember going into Westwego, down in New Orleans, LA in a Piper Arrow.
You know how the runway spreads out on either side of the aircraft when you
flare? Well, this one didn't. It wasn't the softest landing I've ever made but
I guarantee it was the straightest.




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

[Dave Stadt]

18 feet. I'd rather deal with narrow than wide which are usually lacking in
visual clues.

"Kyle Boatright" > wrote in message
...
> What's the narrowest runway you've ever used? At what runway width are
you
> comfortable? Among other things, I had an interesting experience
yesterday
> with a runway that was far narrower than any I'd used before...
>
> We had gone to Dallas for Mother's day, and returned to Atlanta yesterday
in
> my RV-6, which is set-up for basic VFR. The weather was marginal for
most
> of the way, and we made two unscheduled stops and a couple of 180 degree
> course reversals to avoid weather that was below my minimums. This turned
a
> 3.5 hour trip into an 8 hour odyssey.
>
> Our first 180 turn and unscheduled stop occurred when the ceiling was
lower
> than forecast, below my personal minimums, and dropping along our route of
> flight. I hit the "nearest" function on the GPS, and retreated to the
> nearest airfield to give the FSS a call on the cell phone (we were too low
> for radio communication). As we overflew the airfield, I noticed that all
> it was was a paved strip and a paved ramp. No buildings nearby. Also, the
> strip looked fairly narrow, but I went ahead with the landing anyway.
>
> On very short final, it became obvious that this strip redefined narrow.
> Accoring to the AFD, it is 50' wide, but what the AFD didn't say is that
3'
> tall sagebrush grows right to the edge of the strip, and occasionally cuts
> into the 50' useful width. Given that 3' sagebrush will hit the RV-6's
> wingtips, I probably had 10'-12' clear on each side. Catching the
sagebrush
> with a wingtip would have almost certainly caused a groundloop.
>
> With this in mind, and concentrating hard enough to cause permanant
forehead
> wrinkles, I managed to keep the airplane centered on landing and rollout,
> then taxiied (sp?) to the ramp, where I shut down, pulled out the cell
phone
> and got exactly zero signal... (Sometimes you can't win.)
>
> So, we fired up again, taxiied out, and I kept the bird out of the weeds
on
> takeoff and off we went. In the 30 minutes our detour consumed, the
weather
> along the route improved meaningfully, and we made another 225 miles
before
> the next unplanned stop.
>
> After a 3 hour wait and a couple of visits with the on-field FSS at
> Greenville, MS, we found a safe path around the line of storms on the
> Alabama/Mississippi border and came on home. One of the real advantages
to
> a relatively high performance airplane is that if the weather allows, you
> can get above most of the cumulus and eyeball your way around the
convective
> stuff. I'm not sure we would have gotten around yesterday's weather in a
> C-172 or Cherokee...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Matt Barrow]

"Kyle Boatright" > wrote in message
...
> What's the narrowest runway you've ever used?

40 feet at http://www.airnav.com/airport/F14 (Wichita Valley Airport at
Wichita Falls, Texas).

>At what runway width are you
> comfortable?

40 feet wasn't too bad, but I'd hate it in a crosswind....probably go
elsewhere.

> Among other things, I had an interesting experience yesterday
> with a runway that was far narrower than any I'd used before...

> On very short final, it became obvious that this strip redefined narrow.
> Accoring to the AFD, it is 50' wide, but what the AFD didn't say is that
3'
> tall sagebrush grows right to the edge of the strip, and occasionally cuts
> into the 50' useful width. Given that 3' sagebrush will hit the RV-6's
> wingtips, I probably had 10'-12' clear on each side. Catching the
sagebrush
> with a wingtip would have almost certainly caused a groundloop.

Brush on the edge would, in your case, definitely be a potential problem

The 40 footer at F14 just barely covered my 38' wingspan. When I was there a
KingAir was taking off and I had to watch!! :~)

[Maule Driver]

No doubt in my mind that we tend to fly as well as we have too and don't
realize how much more precise we can be until we have too.

Flying gliders with 50 ft wings makes a lot of runways 'interesting'.
Landed on at least one where you have to lift a wing to clear the lights
(Pocono Stoudsburg N53). The trick is to turn off between the lights before
you drop the wing. Too many roadways are unlandable because of reflectors -
especially out west in the 'wide open spaces' where it looks like you can
land anywhere but can't actually do it anywhere with 50' wings. I've landed
on a couple of roads where I had to pick a spot between roadsigns. A number
of glider ports have a 3 ft wide hard strip for TO and Landings with the
single wheel. Even pre-solo pilots do it. Easier than it seems - you fly
as well as you have too.

W88 in Greensboro has a longitidinal split of gravel and 20' asphalt. You
can land on either but it's strange to straddle it. Could be interesting at
night (lol)

I've always been impressed with military trained pilots who seem to have
been trained to do everything on the centerline. Just paying attention
makes it easy.

"Kyle Boatright" > wrote in message
...
> What's the narrowest runway you've ever used? At what runway width are
you
> comfortable? Among other things, I had an interesting experience
yesterday
> with a runway that was far narrower than any I'd used before...
>
> We had gone to Dallas for Mother's day, and returned to Atlanta yesterday
in
> my RV-6, which is set-up for basic VFR. The weather was marginal for
most
> of the way, and we made two unscheduled stops and a couple of 180 degree
> course reversals to avoid weather that was below my minimums. This turned
a
> 3.5 hour trip into an 8 hour odyssey.
>
> Our first 180 turn and unscheduled stop occurred when the ceiling was
lower
> than forecast, below my personal minimums, and dropping along our route of
> flight. I hit the "nearest" function on the GPS, and retreated to the
> nearest airfield to give the FSS a call on the cell phone (we were too low
> for radio communication). As we overflew the airfield, I noticed that all
> it was was a paved strip and a paved ramp. No buildings nearby. Also, the
> strip looked fairly narrow, but I went ahead with the landing anyway.
>
> On very short final, it became obvious that this strip redefined narrow.
> Accoring to the AFD, it is 50' wide, but what the AFD didn't say is that
3'
> tall sagebrush grows right to the edge of the strip, and occasionally cuts
> into the 50' useful width. Given that 3' sagebrush will hit the RV-6's
> wingtips, I probably had 10'-12' clear on each side. Catching the
sagebrush
> with a wingtip would have almost certainly caused a groundloop.
>
> With this in mind, and concentrating hard enough to cause permanant
forehead
> wrinkles, I managed to keep the airplane centered on landing and rollout,
> then taxiied (sp?) to the ramp, where I shut down, pulled out the cell
phone
> and got exactly zero signal... (Sometimes you can't win.)
>
> So, we fired up again, taxiied out, and I kept the bird out of the weeds
on
> takeoff and off we went. In the 30 minutes our detour consumed, the
weather
> along the route improved meaningfully, and we made another 225 miles
before
> the next unplanned stop.
>
> After a 3 hour wait and a couple of visits with the on-field FSS at
> Greenville, MS, we found a safe path around the line of storms on the
> Alabama/Mississippi border and came on home. One of the real advantages
to
> a relatively high performance airplane is that if the weather allows, you
> can get above most of the cumulus and eyeball your way around the
convective
> stuff. I'm not sure we would have gotten around yesterday's weather in a
> C-172 or Cherokee...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Jay Beckman]

"Kyle Boatright" > wrote in message
...
> What's the narrowest runway you've ever used? At what runway width are
> you comfortable?

Phoenix Regional (A39) @ 4000 x 50

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Chandler, AZ

[houstondan]

Casey Wilson wrote:
snip.

and touchdown... THERE WAS THE GOD
> AWFULEST RACKET I HAD EVER HEARD!

> Thirty-two years later, I can still hear Bob laughing when I'm on
final
> and I get the center-line more than a wheel-span off to either side.

now, that was a great story, well told. thanks

my narrow runway is about 3" wide. or so it seemed to me.

where i got my ppl there are 2 runways, 17/35 r/l and the one on the
west side is big. like bravo big. concrete that goes on, as chris rea
says, "forever" and is very wide. too much crosswind for your i52? not
a problem, just bring her in crosswise.

then there was the runway that we terrified students were allowed: "the
little dirt raod". that's what we called it and by golly, that's just
what it looks like from 1000'. maybe half as long as the real runway
and rather than that pretty greyish/whitish concrete, this path was
paved with asphalt. or whatever's left after asphalt dies. all black
and rough except for the volunteer plants expressing thru the ample
cracks. on paper, it's 50' but i'm suspicious. if ray charles really
wanted to learn to fly, he could have learned take-offs there. the many
potholes formed a kind of brail that you learned to read and about
halfway down there's a huge speed bump that tells you it's time to
by-god rotate or brake like mad. mostly, we would launch off it.

as you tried to line up on the little dirt road you of course had to
especially worry about not wandering into the real runway which is
exactly 17" west or, to the east, the water-runway which they use for
float plane operations and which is also exactly 17" to the other side
and they keep it stocked with sharks.

a big-shot thousands-of-hours pilot explained to me that they allowed
the students to use the little dirt road only because they didn't want
our dirty little carcases interfering with important operations.

i felt better then.

((G))


dan

[tony roberts]

I never landed on an 18ft runway - don;t really know it I would want to
- I think not.
What was your shortest?
Again, I'm very conservative about this.
Mine to date is 2400 ft with trees.

My worst airport to date is in a very narrow valley where the runway is
longer and wider than my minimums, but the surrounding mountains
encroach enough that you cannot fly a standard pattern.

If I'm being honest, I'm not a great fan of extreme runways (nor is my
insurer :)

Tony
C-GICE


In article >,
"Dave Stadt" > wrote:

> 18 feet. I'd rather deal with narrow than wide which are usually lacking in
> visual clues.
>
> "Kyle Boatright" > wrote in message
> ...
> > What's the narrowest runway you've ever used? At what runway width are
> you
> > comfortable? Among other things, I had an interesting experience
> yesterday
> > with a runway that was far narrower than any I'd used before...
> >
> > We had gone to Dallas for Mother's day, and returned to Atlanta yesterday
> in
> > my RV-6, which is set-up for basic VFR. The weather was marginal for
> most
> > of the way, and we made two unscheduled stops and a couple of 180 degree
> > course reversals to avoid weather that was below my minimums. This turned
> a
> > 3.5 hour trip into an 8 hour odyssey.
> >
> > Our first 180 turn and unscheduled stop occurred when the ceiling was
> lower
> > than forecast, below my personal minimums, and dropping along our route of
> > flight. I hit the "nearest" function on the GPS, and retreated to the
> > nearest airfield to give the FSS a call on the cell phone (we were too low
> > for radio communication). As we overflew the airfield, I noticed that all
> > it was was a paved strip and a paved ramp. No buildings nearby. Also, the
> > strip looked fairly narrow, but I went ahead with the landing anyway.
> >
> > On very short final, it became obvious that this strip redefined narrow.
> > Accoring to the AFD, it is 50' wide, but what the AFD didn't say is that
> 3'
> > tall sagebrush grows right to the edge of the strip, and occasionally cuts
> > into the 50' useful width. Given that 3' sagebrush will hit the RV-6's
> > wingtips, I probably had 10'-12' clear on each side. Catching the
> sagebrush
> > with a wingtip would have almost certainly caused a groundloop.
> >
> > With this in mind, and concentrating hard enough to cause permanant
> forehead
> > wrinkles, I managed to keep the airplane centered on landing and rollout,
> > then taxiied (sp?) to the ramp, where I shut down, pulled out the cell
> phone
> > and got exactly zero signal... (Sometimes you can't win.)
> >
> > So, we fired up again, taxiied out, and I kept the bird out of the weeds
> on
> > takeoff and off we went. In the 30 minutes our detour consumed, the
> weather
> > along the route improved meaningfully, and we made another 225 miles
> before
> > the next unplanned stop.
> >
> > After a 3 hour wait and a couple of visits with the on-field FSS at
> > Greenville, MS, we found a safe path around the line of storms on the
> > Alabama/Mississippi border and came on home. One of the real advantages
> to
> > a relatively high performance airplane is that if the weather allows, you
> > can get above most of the cumulus and eyeball your way around the
> convective
> > stuff. I'm not sure we would have gotten around yesterday's weather in a
> > C-172 or Cherokee...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >




--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE

[Peter Duniho]

"Kyle Boatright" > wrote in message
...
> What's the narrowest runway you've ever used? At what runway width are
> you comfortable?

Well, let's see. There are several 30' and under wide runways in the Puget
Sound area, almost all of which I use on a semi-regular basis, and have
landed on at least once. The narrowest is 24'. It doesn't seem
uncomfortable to me at all. I may have even landed on narrower somewhere,
but if so I don't recall.

In my seaplane, probably the landings with the least margin for lateral
error have been in canals in Florida. I don't actually know how wide they
are, but if you stay in the center, you're fine. As with the runway you
describe, it's not so much the width of the landing surface, as it is the
width of the area the wings must clear. My plane has a 40' wingspan, so the
canals must be wider than that. :)

In any case, 10' on each side sounds like a LOT of room to me. However, I
will readily grant that comfort depends a lot on pilot experience and
confidence. Even so, I'll point out that when my primary instructor got fed
up with me landing all over the place on Boeing Field's 200' wide runway, he
fixed that by taking me over to Port Orchard with their 28' wide runway and
demonstrating that, when necessary, I had no trouble staying on the
centerline. I was no longer permitted to claim "but it's too hard" back at
Boeing. :)

Pete

[Ray]

> What's the narrowest runway you've ever used?

http://www.airnav.com/airport/L53

Lodi Airpark near Sacramento, CA has an 1875x22ft. runway. If I remember
right there's a ditch on the side too - leaving little room for error.

Also, Harris Ranch (also in CA) has a 30ft. runway which can be really
challenging because in summer afternoons the wind tends to gust straight
across the runway.

http://www.airnav.com/airport/3O8

- Ray

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
"Kyle Boatright" > wrote:

> What's the narrowest runway you've ever used? At what runway width are you
> comfortable?

IIRC Tew-Mac in MA was 26' wide, and it was fine.

My CFII was tired of me landing left of centerline at KBED (150' wide)
so he took me to Tew-Mac. He proved to me that I can land on the
centerline and I proved to him that I can land on the centerline when I
want to. :-)

--
Bob Noel
no one likes an educated mule

[Matt Whiting]

Kyle Boatright wrote:
> What's the narrowest runway you've ever used? At what runway width are you
> comfortable? Among other things, I had an interesting experience yesterday
> with a runway that was far narrower than any I'd used before...

I think 35' was the narrowest. My comfort level depends on the wind,
etc. In calm conditions, I'd be comfortable with 10'. In a stiff cross
wind, I like at least 50'.


> We had gone to Dallas for Mother's day, and returned to Atlanta yesterday in
> my RV-6, which is set-up for basic VFR. The weather was marginal for most
> of the way, and we made two unscheduled stops and a couple of 180 degree
> course reversals to avoid weather that was below my minimums. This turned a
> 3.5 hour trip into an 8 hour odyssey.
>
> Our first 180 turn and unscheduled stop occurred when the ceiling was lower
> than forecast, below my personal minimums, and dropping along our route of
> flight. I hit the "nearest" function on the GPS, and retreated to the
> nearest airfield to give the FSS a call on the cell phone (we were too low
> for radio communication). As we overflew the airfield, I noticed that all
> it was was a paved strip and a paved ramp. No buildings nearby. Also, the
> strip looked fairly narrow, but I went ahead with the landing anyway.
>
> On very short final, it became obvious that this strip redefined narrow.
> Accoring to the AFD, it is 50' wide, but what the AFD didn't say is that 3'
> tall sagebrush grows right to the edge of the strip, and occasionally cuts
> into the 50' useful width. Given that 3' sagebrush will hit the RV-6's
> wingtips, I probably had 10'-12' clear on each side. Catching the sagebrush
> with a wingtip would have almost certainly caused a groundloop.

Another good reason to fly a Cessna. :-) We have the same problem with
snow windrows here in the winter.


Matt

[Jay Honeck]

> What's the narrowest runway you've ever used? At what runway width are
> you comfortable?

For three years I flew out of little Sylvania Field (C89), in Sturtevant,
WI.

2272 feet long, 33 feet wide, paved. (With a parallel grass strip that
saved many a young pilot's hash...mine included.)

Precision was rewarded.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> I think 35' was the narrowest. My comfort level depends on the wind, etc.
> In calm conditions, I'd be comfortable with 10'.

Methinks you exaggerate a tad?

:-)

What's the wheelbase of your plane?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Dave Butler]

Kyle Boatright wrote:
> What's the narrowest runway you've ever used? At what runway width are you
> comfortable? Among other things, I had an interesting experience yesterday
> with a runway that was far narrower than any I'd used before...

Liberty, NC, 2A5 Runway 2/20
Dimensions: 3800 x 40 ft. / 1158 x 12 m
http://www.airnav.com/airport/2A5

The Mooney's wingspan is 36' 1".

There are no noticable obstructions along the sides of the runway, so I didn't
have any heartburn about taxiing / takeoff / landing. It definitely is a good
place to observe the optical effects of a narrow runway during short final, though.

My home airport has 150 ft wide runways.

Dave

[Dudley Henriques]

"Kyle Boatright" > wrote in message
...
> What's the narrowest runway you've ever used? At what runway width are
> you comfortable?

I remember working a Cal Air A9 one sunny day a long time ago and putting it
down on a two lane country road that had telephone poles lined up nicely on
each side. Does that count ? :-)
Dudley Henriques

[[email protected]]

Dudley,

Where did you fly CallAirs?

I worked ground crew and then flew them in central Iowa. We almost
invariably flew off of gravel roads, however, we tried to avoid roads
that had power poles.

One of the pilots I crewed for landed one on a single lane road, with
slightly built up edges, that was only about a foot wider than his
landing gear. I was 16 and had just soloed. I couldn't believe how
accurately that guy could fly and land that airplane. The A-9 was one
of the nicest ground handling tailwheel airplanes I ever flew, but I'd
have to be very, very current before I'd try something as narrow as he
did that day.

All the best,
Rick

[Dudley Henriques]

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> Dudley,
>
> Where did you fly CallAirs?
>
> I worked ground crew and then flew them in central Iowa. We almost
> invariably flew off of gravel roads, however, we tried to avoid roads
> that had power poles.
>
> One of the pilots I crewed for landed one on a single lane road, with
> slightly built up edges, that was only about a foot wider than his
> landing gear. I was 16 and had just soloed. I couldn't believe how
> accurately that guy could fly and land that airplane. The A-9 was one
> of the nicest ground handling tailwheel airplanes I ever flew, but I'd
> have to be very, very current before I'd try something as narrow as he
> did that day.
>
> All the best,
> Rick

A fellow I knew in Maryland had a small Ag operation. He had a contract with
a large co-op frozen food supplier doing fields in Maryland and Delaware;
and did some mosquito work on the canal near us. He had 2 airplanes; the
Calair and a Pawnee. I just helped him out on a few occasions. I got an Ag
cert and sometimes acted as his spare pilot when he had a large field to do.
I liked the CalAir; stable and easy to handle. Actually, the Pawnee wasn't
all that bad either.
I've ferried Agcats and Agwagons on a few occasions for non ag reasons, but
never worked these airplanes.
Dudley

[[email protected]]

Kyle,

The paved runway at Dodge Field, (now closed) north of Des Moines,
Iowa, was 14 x 2,500 feet. The airport was quite busy, with the
state's largest Cessna dealer being based there for some years. A 400
series Cessna would straddle the runway, with the nosewheel on
centerline, the mains would be in the grass on either side. There was
a wide grass area to the west of the runway that people often used, but
it was slightly lower and not usable in winter or when things were
soggy. The airport was built in World War I (that's I, not II) to
support the adjacent large military post, Camp Dodge. It was
originally a square mile; eventually four grass runways were laid out.
It went into civilian hands at some point and much of the land was sold
off, leaving the one, north-south runway. The Army wanted it paved and
cut a deal to split the cost with the FBO. The Army came in and laid a
14 x 2,500 foot strip of asphalt. The FBO reneged on the deal. He
simply painted a dashed line down the centerline. The airport closed
in the late '70s or early '80s and is now a part of Pioneer Hybrid's
large agricultural holdings. Some of the hangars are still standing.
I think the runway is now a driveway into the complex.

I soloed a number of students on that runway. They started out getting
used to a very narrow runway and to them it was normal. I was very
cautious about letting them out in crosswinds.

If you ever have the chance to fly in the country of Belize, you'll
find a number of extremely narrow runways, some barely wider than your
landing gear, including some that are too narrow to turn around on,
even by locking one main wheel and pivoting, you have to taxi clear to
the end to turn around. At Placencia, the runway is about two feet
wider than the gear of the Cessna 208s that serve it. For half the
runway length there is water on both sides. It does get your
attention. A number of the runways also have potholes, so you have to
select your touchdown site and rollout path pretty carefully. In
giving airport checkouts to some pilots from the U.S. in Cessna 185s,
206s and 337s, most spent a bit of time being amazed at how narrow the
runways were. It usually only took about two landings before they
adjusted and did fine.

Belize City Municipal (not International) is not as wide as the
wingspan of a Cessna 206 although you can turn around on it, but it's
only 1,700 feet long and has water on one side as well as at each end.
it is considered poor form to miss the midfield turnoff on landing as
it's a busy airport. One of the best things about the airport is that
there is a small restaurant/bar right at the departure end of runway 12
(prevailing wind runway). You can sit outside, under a thatched
umbrella, drinking cold beers and be right there as heavily loaded
Cessna 207s, 208s and Gippsland Airvans use almost every bit of the
runway getting airborne. It's a pleasant way to spend a few hours.
The Belizean pilots are very, very good.

All the best,
Rick

[Matt Barrow]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:cvmge.70892$r53.23190@attbi_s21...
> > I think 35' was the narrowest. My comfort level depends on the wind,
etc.
> > In calm conditions, I'd be comfortable with 10'.
>
> Methinks you exaggerate a tad?
>
> :-)
>
> What's the wheelbase of your plane?

Me agrees! The wheel span of mine is (I think) 11' 4".

[Matt Barrow]

"Dave Butler" > wrote in message
news:1115818851.323570@sj-nntpcache-3...
> Kyle Boatright wrote:
> > What's the narrowest runway you've ever used? At what runway width are
you
> > comfortable? Among other things, I had an interesting experience
yesterday
> > with a runway that was far narrower than any I'd used before...
>
> Liberty, NC, 2A5 Runway 2/20
> Dimensions: 3800 x 40 ft. / 1158 x 12 m
> http://www.airnav.com/airport/2A5
>
> The Mooney's wingspan is 36' 1".
>
> There are no noticable obstructions along the sides of the runway, so I
didn't
> have any heartburn about taxiing / takeoff / landing. It definitely is a
good
> place to observe the optical effects of a narrow runway during short
final, though.
>
> My home airport has 150 ft wide runways.
>

Mine also (150' and 100') and it takes your breath away coming into a
spaghetti farm for a change.

[Robert M. Gary]

15 feet. I was bringing a J-3 home to its new owner and the guy asked
me to bring it to his airfield. It was paved (but cracking) but the
grass around it had grown up onto the runway. Putting a J-3 on a 15
foot wide runway it interesting because you can't see ahead of you (you
fly from the back) I lost sight of the runway just as the wheels
touched. I had to take it on faith that I was still on the runway. Once
I was at taxi speed I could taxi by looking straight down and watching
the wheel.

-Robert

[Maule Driver]

May be a highwing/lowwing thing. My wheelbase is 6'. I'd do 10'.

Again, it's not as hard as it seems when you have to do it.

Weiser KEQY in Houston is 40' which seems narrower. An acquaintance of mine
put his Navajo in there due to poor preflight planning - think he scared
himself. Sold it not long after.

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:cvmge.70892$r53.23190@attbi_s21...
> > I think 35' was the narrowest. My comfort level depends on the wind,
etc.
> > In calm conditions, I'd be comfortable with 10'.
>
> Methinks you exaggerate a tad?
>
> :-)
>
> What's the wheelbase of your plane?
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>
>

[Toks Desalu]

> What's the narrowest runway you've ever used? At what runway width are
you
> comfortable?

40 feet wide with trees on both ends and one side. The surface is asphalt in
poor condition including cracks with grass growing through, faded runway
markings, and several bumps (as rough as speed bumps).

I have no problem flying into and out of 40 feet wide in cessna 172, even in
15 knots crosswind. For me, I would be more concerned with the surrounding
than the runway width.

Toks Desalu
PP_ASEL
"Dyin' to soar!"

[Maule Driver]

....And Causey aviation operates Citations in and out of there all day and
night.

I wish I had a Mooney, but since I have a Maule I have to go 3 miles east
over to N61's turf to get the juices flowing. Hard to find even with a GPS,
just try a low approach.

"Dave Butler" > wrote in message
news:1115818851.323570@sj-nntpcache-3...
> > What's the narrowest runway you've ever used? At what runway width are
you
> > comfortable? Among other things, I had an interesting experience
yesterday
> > with a runway that was far narrower than any I'd used before...
>
> Liberty, NC, 2A5 Runway 2/20
> Dimensions: 3800 x 40 ft. / 1158 x 12 m
> http://www.airnav.com/airport/2A5
>
> The Mooney's wingspan is 36' 1".
>
> There are no noticable obstructions along the sides of the runway, so I
didn't
> have any heartburn about taxiing / takeoff / landing. It definitely is a
good
> place to observe the optical effects of a narrow runway during short
final, though.
>
> My home airport has 150 ft wide runways.
>
> Dave

[nrp]

There was a writeup a few weeks ago on the retired South African
Airways 747 that was flown to its museum airfield & landed on a 50'
wide asphalt strip, down and stopped in 2300 ft. There was about 3 ft
edge distance for the 747 gear. It was an incredible piece of
airmanship.

I can't find the url for anything on it though. Did anyone else save
it?

[Dave Butler]

Maule Driver wrote:
> ...And Causey aviation operates Citations in and out of there all day and
> night.
>
> I wish I had a Mooney, but since I have a Maule I have to go 3 miles east
> over to N61's turf to get the juices flowing. Hard to find even with a GPS,
> just try a low approach.
>

I have a hard enought time finding Causey :-)

[Markus Voget]

"nrp" > wrote:

> There was a writeup a few weeks ago on the retired South African
> Airways 747 that was flown to its museum airfield & landed on a 50'
> wide asphalt strip, down and stopped in 2300 ft. There was about 3 ft
> edge distance for the 747 gear. It was an incredible piece of
> airmanship.

Indeed!
http://www.skypark.org/747Landing.htm


Greetings,
Markus

[Maule Driver]

Just SWEET! What an a/c and what a nice piloting job.

Markus Voget wrote:
> "nrp" > wrote:
>
>
>>There was a writeup a few weeks ago on the retired South African
>>Airways 747 that was flown to its museum airfield & landed on a 50'
>>wide asphalt strip, down and stopped in 2300 ft. There was about 3 ft
>>edge distance for the 747 gear. It was an incredible piece of
>>airmanship.
>
>
> Indeed!
> http://www.skypark.org/747Landing.htm
>
>
> Greetings,
> Markus

[ORVAL FAIRBAIRN]

In article >,
"Kyle Boatright" > wrote:

> What's the narrowest runway you've ever used? At what runway width are you
> comfortable? Among other things, I had an interesting experience yesterday
> with a runway that was far narrower than any I'd used before...

When I lived in CA, I based at Frazier Lake for several years. Normally,
you use the 150'x2500' grass runway, but in the winter the grass is too
soggy, so we used the paved taxiway. That was approximately 20'-25' wide
and 2500' long. It got really sporting in a crosswind, so you really had
to keep on centerline.

Smith Ranch, in Marin County, was another narrow strip.

--
Remove _'s from email address to talk to me.

[John Galban]

Kyle Boatright wrote:
> What's the narrowest runway you've ever used? At what runway width
are you
> comfortable?

I think the narrowest one I've used was Manley Hot Springs (PAML) in
the Alaskan interior. It was listed at 30 ft. wide in the book (which
happens to match the wingspan of my Cherokee). While I was flaring, I
noticed that there was pretty much just one place for me to put the
wheels on the relatively smooth dirt and gravel. The vegetation had
grown in from both sides, making the runway much narrower than 30 ft.
After landing, I saw that I only had a few feet of runway showing on
the outside of either wheel pant. Curiosity got the best of me, so I
measured the width of the strip. It was 20 ft. Fortunately, the
vegetation that grew at the edge of the strip was low, so I didn't have
to worry about dinging the wings. I'd hate to have to land there with
a serious crosswind.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

[Ben Jackson]

On 2005-05-11, Kyle Boatright > wrote:
> What's the narrowest runway you've ever used? At what runway width are you
> comfortable?

The narrowest was at Woodland State (W27) which is 1965x25, in a 172
when I had about 14 hours.

I must be comfortable with 2500x48 since that's where my plane is based.
It still freaks me out to land at night (the lights are significantly
wider, maybe 80-100' apart). It makes the runway look short and stubby.
I don't think I've ever used more than the center 20' of the runway
except once when a brake grabbed a little and I swerved. Closest I've
come to groundlooping a tricycle gear plane!

--
Ben Jackson
>
http://www.ben.com/

[Chris]

"Kyle Boatright" > wrote in message
...
> What's the narrowest runway you've ever used? At what runway width are
> you comfortable?

Narrowest was the temporary runway at Middleton (C29) at 35'. No problem
with that except I was flying a TR182 for the first time and my fourth
landing on the runway was when I did my Instrument checkride.
http://www.bumblesfolly.com/html/morey_0.html

[Matt Whiting]

Jay Honeck wrote:

>>I think 35' was the narrowest. My comfort level depends on the wind, etc.
>>In calm conditions, I'd be comfortable with 10'.
>
>
> Methinks you exaggerate a tad?
>
> :-)
>
> What's the wheelbase of your plane?

You may have me here. I was thinking about the Skylane I used to own.
I think it's track was less than 10', but a quick internet search just
now failed to find a site that listed this dimension.

I currently fly a club Arrow and its gear likely is more than 10' wide
as it at least looks a fair bit wider than the Skylane was.

So, I'll rephrase my answer to be: track + 2' in calm conditions. :-)


Matt

[Matt Whiting]

Dudley Henriques wrote:

> "Kyle Boatright" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>What's the narrowest runway you've ever used? At what runway width are
>>you comfortable?
>
>
> I remember working a Cal Air A9 one sunny day a long time ago and putting it
> down on a two lane country road that had telephone poles lined up nicely on
> each side. Does that count ? :-)
> Dudley Henriques
>
>

Depends on the width of the road. :-)


Matt

[Matt Whiting]

Markus Voget wrote:

> "nrp" > wrote:
>
>
>>There was a writeup a few weeks ago on the retired South African
>>Airways 747 that was flown to its museum airfield & landed on a 50'
>>wide asphalt strip, down and stopped in 2300 ft. There was about 3 ft
>>edge distance for the 747 gear. It was an incredible piece of
>>airmanship.
>
>
> Indeed!
> http://www.skypark.org/747Landing.htm

Too cool!

Matt

[Matt Whiting]

Ben Jackson wrote:

> On 2005-05-11, Kyle Boatright > wrote:
>
>>What's the narrowest runway you've ever used? At what runway width are you
>>comfortable?
>
>
> The narrowest was at Woodland State (W27) which is 1965x25, in a 172
> when I had about 14 hours.
>
> I must be comfortable with 2500x48 since that's where my plane is based.
> It still freaks me out to land at night (the lights are significantly
> wider, maybe 80-100' apart). It makes the runway look short and stubby.
> I don't think I've ever used more than the center 20' of the runway
> except once when a brake grabbed a little and I swerved. Closest I've
> come to groundlooping a tricycle gear plane!
>

I don't remember which field was narrowest, but I believe it was near
Pittsburgh, PA. I'll have to check my log book. I DO remember the
shortest I landed at. It is K9B1. It is less than 1700' with
obstructions at both ends. Landing the Skylane was no problem,
requiring only about 1000' with light braking. However, the sight
picture when I turned final was unnerving. The book said I had plenty
of space so I trusted the numbers.

I learned to fly at a 1900' strip, but that had trees at only one end.
Taking off from Marlboro was very interesting. It was a hot summer day
(about 90 as I recall), but I was loaded fairly light, just me, one pax
and about 4 hours of fuel. I don't recall the exact details now, but I
think the book said I needed about 1500' to clear a 50' obstacle. I
pulled onto the runway with my tail feathers almost touching the chain
link fence at one end, ran up to nearly full RPM and then released the
brakes. We cleared the trees by 30-40'.


Matt

[Charles O'Rourke]

Matt Whiting wrote:
> I don't remember which field was narrowest, but I believe it was near
> Pittsburgh, PA. I'll have to check my log book. I DO remember the
> shortest I landed at. It is K9B1. It is less than 1700' with
> obstructions at both ends. Landing the Skylane was no problem,
> requiring only about 1000' with light braking. However, the sight
> picture when I turned final was unnerving. The book said I had plenty
> of space so I trusted the numbers.

The pilot I bought my plane from learned at Marlboro (9B1), and he
demonstrated the STOL characteristics of my plane by landing and taking
off at 9B1. What a blast! Coming in down over those trees on short
final is a thrill.

Charles.
-N8385U

[[email protected]]

On Tue, 10 May 2005 22:38:50 -0400, "Kyle Boatright"
> wrote:

>What's the narrowest runway you've ever used? At what runway width are you
>comfortable? Among other things, I had an interesting experience yesterday
>with a runway that was far narrower than any I'd used before...

http://www.airnav.com/airport/7D5

Trees at one end, power lines and railroad tracks at the other.

Been in and out of this one in a little bit of everything. Scariest
one for me was a Malibu Mirage. Easiest was an A-1 Husky (departed off
of what passes for a ramp pointing toward the runway)

Don't remember what the main gear "track" width is on the Malibu, but
there wasn't a lot of room to spare...

What's really, really scary is the guy that useta own it based a P-51
and later a BD-10 there.

TC

[[email protected]]

On Wed, 11 May 2005 23:29:40 GMT, wrote:

>http://www.airnav.com/airport/7D5
>
>Trees at one end, power lines and railroad tracks at the other.
>
>Been in and out of this one in a little bit of everything. Scariest
>one for me was a Malibu Mirage. Easiest was an A-1 Husky (departed off
>of what passes for a ramp pointing toward the runway)

Forgot to mention that quite a few trips to 7D5 were as a student
pilot...

TC

[[email protected]]

20' wide, Kezer airport near Ft. Worth TX in a Piper Warrior

picture on AirNav's site: http://www.airnav.com/airport/61TE


On approach, it was as though I was landing on an R/C park's airstrip
:-)

I had a fair crosswind too, but kept the wheels on the pavement.

[Bushleague]

6B6 in a Beech 18. Quite actually the taxiway is worse due to wing tip
clearance to the parked aircraft.

Bush

On Tue, 10 May 2005 22:38:50 -0400, "Kyle Boatright"
> wrote:

>What's the narrowest runway you've ever used? At what runway width are you
>comfortable? Among other things, I had an interesting experience yesterday
>with a runway that was far narrower than any I'd used before...
>
>We had gone to Dallas for Mother's day, and returned to Atlanta yesterday in
>my RV-6, which is set-up for basic VFR. The weather was marginal for most
>of the way, and we made two unscheduled stops and a couple of 180 degree
>course reversals to avoid weather that was below my minimums. This turned a
>3.5 hour trip into an 8 hour odyssey.
>
>Our first 180 turn and unscheduled stop occurred when the ceiling was lower
>than forecast, below my personal minimums, and dropping along our route of
>flight. I hit the "nearest" function on the GPS, and retreated to the
>nearest airfield to give the FSS a call on the cell phone (we were too low
>for radio communication). As we overflew the airfield, I noticed that all
>it was was a paved strip and a paved ramp. No buildings nearby. Also, the
>strip looked fairly narrow, but I went ahead with the landing anyway.
>
>On very short final, it became obvious that this strip redefined narrow.
>Accoring to the AFD, it is 50' wide, but what the AFD didn't say is that 3'
>tall sagebrush grows right to the edge of the strip, and occasionally cuts
>into the 50' useful width. Given that 3' sagebrush will hit the RV-6's
>wingtips, I probably had 10'-12' clear on each side. Catching the sagebrush
>with a wingtip would have almost certainly caused a groundloop.
>
>With this in mind, and concentrating hard enough to cause permanant forehead
>wrinkles, I managed to keep the airplane centered on landing and rollout,
>then taxiied (sp?) to the ramp, where I shut down, pulled out the cell phone
>and got exactly zero signal... (Sometimes you can't win.)
>
>So, we fired up again, taxiied out, and I kept the bird out of the weeds on
>takeoff and off we went. In the 30 minutes our detour consumed, the weather
>along the route improved meaningfully, and we made another 225 miles before
>the next unplanned stop.
>
>After a 3 hour wait and a couple of visits with the on-field FSS at
>Greenville, MS, we found a safe path around the line of storms on the
>Alabama/Mississippi border and came on home. One of the real advantages to
>a relatively high performance airplane is that if the weather allows, you
>can get above most of the cumulus and eyeball your way around the convective
>stuff. I'm not sure we would have gotten around yesterday's weather in a
>C-172 or Cherokee...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[BTIZ]

I remember that narrow runway at Tew-Mac... but when my CFI took me there he
said it was 21ft...

There is also a runway in NW Abilene TX.. that must have been about 30ft
wide..

BT

"Bob Noel" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Kyle Boatright" > wrote:
>
>> What's the narrowest runway you've ever used? At what runway width are
>> you
>> comfortable?
>
> IIRC Tew-Mac in MA was 26' wide, and it was fine.
>
> My CFII was tired of me landing left of centerline at KBED (150' wide)
> so he took me to Tew-Mac. He proved to me that I can land on the
> centerline and I proved to him that I can land on the centerline when I
> want to. :-)
>
> --
> Bob Noel
> no one likes an educated mule
>

[Montblack]

("Markus Voget" wrote)
[>> nrp wrote]
>> There was a writeup a few weeks ago on the retired South African
>> Airways 747 that was flown to its museum airfield & landed on a 50'
>> wide asphalt strip, down and stopped in 2300 ft. There was about 3 ft
>> edge distance for the 747 gear. It was an incredible piece of
>> airmanship.
>
> Indeed!
> http://www.skypark.org/747Landing.htm


(Favorite part of the story)
"We joined right-hand downwind for 11 and got the gear and flap 30, landing
flap out early."

Joined? Joined who way out there, the C-5 Galaxy landing in front of them?
<g>

Anyone know what size the "pattern" would be for a 747?

2 miles abeam the numbers? 1.5 miles? 3 miles? 4 miles?


Montblack

[George Patterson]

Kyle Boatright wrote:
> What's the narrowest runway you've ever used?

I've flown into a number of grass strips. No runway at all.

George Patterson
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures. Right next to the
mashed potatoes.

[Matt Whiting]

Charles O'Rourke wrote:

> Matt Whiting wrote:
>
>> I don't remember which field was narrowest, but I believe it was near
>> Pittsburgh, PA. I'll have to check my log book. I DO remember the
>> shortest I landed at. It is K9B1. It is less than 1700' with
>> obstructions at both ends. Landing the Skylane was no problem,
>> requiring only about 1000' with light braking. However, the sight
>> picture when I turned final was unnerving. The book said I had plenty
>> of space so I trusted the numbers.
>
>
> The pilot I bought my plane from learned at Marlboro (9B1), and he
> demonstrated the STOL characteristics of my plane by landing and taking
> off at 9B1. What a blast! Coming in down over those trees on short
> final is a thrill.

Yes, when I turned final, my first thought was that this runway couldn't
possibly be long enough to land on. However, at some point you have to
trust the numbers and trust your training. It all worked out fine, but
it did get the adrenaline flowing just a little bit more than normal. :-)


Matt

[Bob Chilcoat]

Freehold, NY (1I5) is the narrowest I've ever landed on - 22 feet. I
thought that Stroudsberg Pocono (N53) was narrow at 30 feet, but turning
final at Freehold, it just gets narrower the closer you get. The Cherokee I
was in at the time is 10' between the mains, but on that runway, it seems
like it's a lot wider. You really want to track the centerline. The grass
is cut, however.

In the Northeast in the winter, you have to watch the snowbanks on either
side of the runway. There have been times that I thought that a high wing
might be nice.

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)


"Kyle Boatright" > wrote in message
...
> What's the narrowest runway you've ever used? At what runway width are
you
> comfortable? Among other things, I had an interesting experience
yesterday
> with a runway that was far narrower than any I'd used before...
>

[[email protected]]

Kyle Boatright wrote:
> What's the narrowest runway you've ever used?

We flew gliders off the turf in Readington, NJ, some years ago. One
day I followed the Lark around the pattern in an SGS 1-26. The Lark
landed nice and short (I started aiming to land over him), but then
rolled out long and stopped in the middle of the runway. The only
clear space available was the diagonal swath cut by the tractor as he'd
headed for the barn after his last pass down the runway... maybe 12
feet wide, maybe less. The 1-26 sits about 6 inches off the ground and
has glider-sized wings. As I eased her into that skinny little slot,
both wings settled nicely into 12-ish inches of grass.

That was also the shortest landing I've ever made, by a very large
margin. :-|

-Dave Russell
N2S-3

[Cub Driver]

On 11 May 2005 07:57:14 -0700, "Robert M. Gary" >
wrote:

>15 feet. I was bringing a J-3 home to its new owner and the guy asked
>me to bring it to his airfield. It was paved (but cracking) but the
>grass around it had grown up onto the runway. Putting a J-3 on a 15
>foot wide runway it interesting because you can't see ahead of you (you
>fly from the back) I lost sight of the runway just as the wheels
>touched. I had to take it on faith that I was still on the runway. Once
>I was at taxi speed I could taxi by looking straight down and watching
>the wheel.

That's what wheelies are for!

(There is of course a point when the tail comes down. 15 feet is
pretty narrow for S turns!)



-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[Cub Driver]

On Thu, 12 May 2005 01:48:11 GMT, Matt Whiting >
wrote:

>> The pilot I bought my plane from learned at Marlboro (9B1), and he
>> demonstrated the STOL characteristics of my plane by landing and taking
>> off at 9B1. What a blast! Coming in down over those trees on short
>> final is a thrill.
>
>Yes, when I turned final, my first thought was that this runway couldn't
>possibly be long enough to land on.

1659 feet is pretty short for a public-use airport. I've heard that
many Cessna drivers won't land at Hampton NH because it's so short
(about 2500 feet).

I think the narrowest paved runway I've ever landed on was 40 feet
(Sterling MA). I was a student pilot, and it seemed noticably narrower
than the 50 feet I was accustomed to land on.

More grass fields of course are much wider--Hampton's I think is 250
feet. They also tend to be on the short side. In Damian Delgaizo's
bush-flying course in Andover NJ he had me landing and taking off on a
strip that was about 250x500 feet. That was in a Husky, however. I
found that the techniques didn't translate very well to a J-3. If you
try to fly the final with power on and nose high in a Cub, the dang
thang will just keep on flying forever.

The bestest field in the world however is a private field near
Hampton: Sanderson's in Hampton NH. There's an ultra-light fly-in
there every July. East-west, maybe 2000 feet, gentle uphill slope to
the east, then a steep hill on the east end, then 50-ft trees, power
lines, a house, the whole nine yards. When you land to the west, you
necessarily miss the hill altogether, and most of the time I miss half
the runway after that. No landing on the numbers there!


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[Cecil Chapman]

Though I'm sure it isn't as narrow as some of you have done; my narrowest
(so far) was
30 feet wide.... wing tips of 172 hang over the edges of the runway.
Harris Ranch 3O8 in Coalinga.

--
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil
PP-ASEL-IA
Student - CP-ASEL

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -
"Kyle Boatright" > wrote in message
...
> What's the narrowest runway you've ever used? At what runway width are
> you comfortable? Among other things, I had an interesting experience
> yesterday with a runway that was far narrower than any I'd used before...
>
> We had gone to Dallas for Mother's day, and returned to Atlanta yesterday
> in my RV-6, which is set-up for basic VFR. The weather was marginal for
> most of the way, and we made two unscheduled stops and a couple of 180
> degree course reversals to avoid weather that was below my minimums. This
> turned a 3.5 hour trip into an 8 hour odyssey.
>
> Our first 180 turn and unscheduled stop occurred when the ceiling was
> lower than forecast, below my personal minimums, and dropping along our
> route of flight. I hit the "nearest" function on the GPS, and retreated
> to the nearest airfield to give the FSS a call on the cell phone (we were
> too low for radio communication). As we overflew the airfield, I noticed
> that all it was was a paved strip and a paved ramp. No buildings nearby.
> Also, the strip looked fairly narrow, but I went ahead with the landing
> anyway.
>
> On very short final, it became obvious that this strip redefined narrow.
> Accoring to the AFD, it is 50' wide, but what the AFD didn't say is that
> 3' tall sagebrush grows right to the edge of the strip, and occasionally
> cuts into the 50' useful width. Given that 3' sagebrush will hit the
> RV-6's wingtips, I probably had 10'-12' clear on each side. Catching the
> sagebrush with a wingtip would have almost certainly caused a groundloop.
>
> With this in mind, and concentrating hard enough to cause permanant
> forehead wrinkles, I managed to keep the airplane centered on landing and
> rollout, then taxiied (sp?) to the ramp, where I shut down, pulled out the
> cell phone and got exactly zero signal... (Sometimes you can't win.)
>
> So, we fired up again, taxiied out, and I kept the bird out of the weeds
> on takeoff and off we went. In the 30 minutes our detour consumed, the
> weather along the route improved meaningfully, and we made another 225
> miles before the next unplanned stop.
>
> After a 3 hour wait and a couple of visits with the on-field FSS at
> Greenville, MS, we found a safe path around the line of storms on the
> Alabama/Mississippi border and came on home. One of the real advantages
> to a relatively high performance airplane is that if the weather allows,
> you can get above most of the cumulus and eyeball your way around the
> convective stuff. I'm not sure we would have gotten around yesterday's
> weather in a C-172 or Cherokee...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Cecil Chapman]

> 15 feet. I was bringing a J-3 home to its new owner and the guy asked
> me to bring it to his airfield. It was paved (but cracking) but the
> grass around it had grown up onto the runway. Putting a J-3 on a 15
> foot wide runway it interesting because you can't see ahead of you (you
> fly from the back) I lost sight of the runway just as the wheels
> touched. I had to take it on faith that I was still on the runway. Once
> I was at taxi speed I could taxi by looking straight down and watching
> the wheel.


Geez, the hairs on the back of my neck stood up reading that one! :)

--
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil
PP-ASEL-IA
Student - CP-ASEL

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -
"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> -Robert
>

[Paul Anton]

"> What's the narrowest runway you've ever used? At what runway width are
you
> comfortable?

I'm based at Spanaway WA S-44 20 feet wide.
When I go X-country EVERYTHING seem wide. <Grin>

Paul
NC2273H

[Dale]

In article >,
"Kyle Boatright" > wrote:

> What's the narrowest runway you've ever used? At what runway width are you
> comfortable? Among other things, I had an interesting experience yesterday
> with a runway that was far narrower than any I'd used before...

This one: http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flypics/ghshortfinal.jpg

Same width as Cessna main gear.

--
Dale L. Falk

There is nothing - absolutely nothing - half so much worth doing
as simply messing around with airplanes.

http://home.gci.net/~sncdfalk/flying.html

[Cub Driver]

On Tue, 17 May 2005 00:58:48 +0000 (UTC), (Don
Poitras) wrote:

> "Guys with guns on the runway."

When I landed at Bankok some years ago (passenger, not pilot!), I was
bemused to see golfers on the grass beside the runway.

In Limerick, it was sheep.


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
the blog: www.danford.net
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN]

Cub Driver wrote:
> When I landed at Bankok some years ago (passenger, not pilot!), I was
> bemused to see golfers on the grass beside the runway.
>
> In Limerick, it was sheep.


At Marco Island, FL, it's the occasional alligator.




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

[John Galban]

Cub Driver wrote:
> On Tue, 17 May 2005 00:58:48 +0000 (UTC), (Don
> Poitras) wrote:
>
> > "Guys with guns on the runway."
>
> When I landed at Bankok some years ago (passenger, not pilot!), I was
> bemused to see golfers on the grass beside the runway.
>
> In Limerick, it was sheep.
>
In Deadhorse, Alaska it's Caribou.


John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)