Narrow Runways

What's the narrowest runway you've ever used? At what runway width are you
comfortable? Among other things, I had an interesting experience yesterday
with a runway that was far narrower than any I'd used before...

We had gone to Dallas for Mother's day, and returned to Atlanta yesterday in
my RV-6, which is set-up for basic VFR. The weather was marginal for most
of the way, and we made two unscheduled stops and a couple of 180 degree
course reversals to avoid weather that was below my minimums. This turned a
3.5 hour trip into an 8 hour odyssey.

Our first 180 turn and unscheduled stop occurred when the ceiling was lower
than forecast, below my personal minimums, and dropping along our route of
flight. I hit the "nearest" function on the GPS, and retreated to the
nearest airfield to give the FSS a call on the cell phone (we were too low
for radio communication). As we overflew the airfield, I noticed that all
it was was a paved strip and a paved ramp. No buildings nearby. Also, the
strip looked fairly narrow, but I went ahead with the landing anyway.

On very short final, it became obvious that this strip redefined narrow.
Accoring to the AFD, it is 50' wide, but what the AFD didn't say is that 3'
tall sagebrush grows right to the edge of the strip, and occasionally cuts
into the 50' useful width. Given that 3' sagebrush will hit the RV-6's
wingtips, I probably had 10'-12' clear on each side. Catching the sagebrush
with a wingtip would have almost certainly caused a groundloop.

With this in mind, and concentrating hard enough to cause permanant forehead
wrinkles, I managed to keep the airplane centered on landing and rollout,
then taxiied (sp?) to the ramp, where I shut down, pulled out the cell phone
and got exactly zero signal... (Sometimes you can't win.)

So, we fired up again, taxiied out, and I kept the bird out of the weeds on
takeoff and off we went. In the 30 minutes our detour consumed, the weather
along the route improved meaningfully, and we made another 225 miles before
the next unplanned stop.

After a 3 hour wait and a couple of visits with the on-field FSS at
Greenville, MS, we found a safe path around the line of storms on the
Alabama/Mississippi border and came on home. One of the real advantages to
a relatively high performance airplane is that if the weather allows, you
can get above most of the cumulus and eyeball your way around the convective
stuff. I'm not sure we would have gotten around yesterday's weather in a
C-172 or Cherokee...

"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message ...
What's the narrowest runway you've ever used?

Not sure... My current runway is 25 ft wide... It definitely seems narrow,
but there's plenty of grass on either side that I could land on also, I
guess...

At what runway width are you comfortable?

Well, I don't feel *uncomfortable* with this one, but most of my flights are
probably from an airport with a 50 ft wide runway with ditches along a good
portion of it, so rolling off the side would definitely *not* be a good
idea...

This turned a 3.5 hour trip into an 8 hour odyssey.

Ahhhh... The dreaded "scenic route"... grin

What's the narrowest runway you've ever used?

I've used runways whose paving was barely wide enough for the wheels.
Somehow my approaches are better at such fields - even if I pretend that
the big dotted line of a wider runway =is= the entire runway. Dunno why
- must be the sight picture.

However, I've never landed at a field where wing clearance was an issue.

Jose

--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Kyle Boatright asks:

What's the narrowest runway you've ever used?

In my COZY MKIV, 40 ft., I think. Wingspan is 29.5 ft. or so. There
were trees/bushes on one side of the runway, and I ticked a couple of
bushes with one wingtip while turning around at the runway's end. I've
landed on 40 ft. wide runways with nothing on either side many times,
with no issues, with up to 10 kt. crosswinds.

.....At what runway width are you comfortable?

I think I'd be OK with 25-30 ft, depending upon how much crosswind there
was, and how long the runway was for takeoff. If there's no flora off
to the sides, then even narrower would be OK - keeping the plane within
5 ft. of the centerline isn't really a problem, and the gear width is
about 6-7 ft. or so.

--
Marc J. Zeitlin
http://marc.zeitlin.home.comcast.net/
http://www.cozybuilders.org/
Copyright (c) 2005

Kyle Boatright wrote:
What's the narrowest runway you've ever used?
At what runway width are you comfortable?

38 feet.
39 feet.


Kay

"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message
...
What's the narrowest runway you've ever used? At what runway width are
you comfortable? Among other things, I had an interesting experience
yesterday with a runway that was far narrower than any I'd used before...


SNIP!

Trona, California, L72. Runway 17/35 is 6000 feet long and 60 feet
wide.
One of my early problems was flying at IYK with the 150 wide runways,
I was somewhat casual about the center line. Hey, in a 150 Aerobat who cares
if you are a wing width off to one side or the other?
My first experience at L72 was on my second hour of night dual. My CFI,
Bob Mikesell, had me fly over to Trona. Cocky ole me, I had mastered the
night visual approach at IYK -- piece 'o cake, says I. So Bob has me fly
over L72 and check the wind-T, then do all the proper things about entering
downwind on a 45, GUMPS, base, and split the lights on final.
As a small aside here, flaps were not a routine part of landing back in
1973 unless soft- or short-field, or some other exigency required them.
I crossed the threshold on that pitch-black night somewhat to the right
of the center-line. The visual difference in surface texture didn't
register. The runway edge lights were way over there on the right and way
over there on the left. I flared at the perfect height and kept easing back
on the yoke, easing back, easing ba... and touchdown... THERE WAS THE GOD
AWFULEST RACKET I HAD EVER HEARD!
I didn't wait for Bob... In went the Carb Heat. Firewall went the
throttle. Wallow went the little airplane back into the air to escape the
horrendous noise. With the nose down, the airspeed built up until I was
flying again.
When I looked over at Mr. Mikesell, he actually had tears running down
his cheeks he was laughing so hard. I had almost pee'd my pants and I know I
sucked half the cushion off the seat. And he is laughing.
Finally, he says, "I don't ever want to tell you about the center-line
again."
You see, the runway at L72 was 150 feet wide..., well no, the lights
were 150' wide. The paved part was only 60. The rest of the space between
the asphalt and the lights was gravel.
Bob died of a heart attack several years ago, so you don't need to make
any critical remarks about him letting a student ding up the 150's paint
flying onto the gravel. Besides, it didn't do any noticable paint damage
anyway.
Thirty-two years later, I can still hear Bob laughing when I'm on final
and I get the center-line more than a wheel-span off to either side.

Kyle Boatright wrote:
What's the narrowest runway you've ever used? At what runway width are you
comfortable? Among other things, I had an interesting experience yesterday
with a runway that was far narrower than any I'd used before...



I can remember going into Westwego, down in New Orleans, LA in a Piper Arrow.
You know how the runway spreads out on either side of the aircraft when you
flare? Well, this one didn't. It wasn't the softest landing I've ever made but
I guarantee it was the straightest.




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

18 feet. I'd rather deal with narrow than wide which are usually lacking in
visual clues.

"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message
...
What's the narrowest runway you've ever used? At what runway width are
you
comfortable? Among other things, I had an interesting experience
yesterday
with a runway that was far narrower than any I'd used before...

We had gone to Dallas for Mother's day, and returned to Atlanta yesterday
in
my RV-6, which is set-up for basic VFR. The weather was marginal for
most
of the way, and we made two unscheduled stops and a couple of 180 degree
course reversals to avoid weather that was below my minimums. This turned
a
3.5 hour trip into an 8 hour odyssey.

Our first 180 turn and unscheduled stop occurred when the ceiling was
lower
than forecast, below my personal minimums, and dropping along our route of
flight. I hit the "nearest" function on the GPS, and retreated to the
nearest airfield to give the FSS a call on the cell phone (we were too low
for radio communication). As we overflew the airfield, I noticed that all
it was was a paved strip and a paved ramp. No buildings nearby. Also, the
strip looked fairly narrow, but I went ahead with the landing anyway.

On very short final, it became obvious that this strip redefined narrow.
Accoring to the AFD, it is 50' wide, but what the AFD didn't say is that
3'
tall sagebrush grows right to the edge of the strip, and occasionally cuts
into the 50' useful width. Given that 3' sagebrush will hit the RV-6's
wingtips, I probably had 10'-12' clear on each side. Catching the
sagebrush
with a wingtip would have almost certainly caused a groundloop.

With this in mind, and concentrating hard enough to cause permanant
forehead
wrinkles, I managed to keep the airplane centered on landing and rollout,
then taxiied (sp?) to the ramp, where I shut down, pulled out the cell
phone
and got exactly zero signal... (Sometimes you can't win.)

So, we fired up again, taxiied out, and I kept the bird out of the weeds
on
takeoff and off we went. In the 30 minutes our detour consumed, the
weather
along the route improved meaningfully, and we made another 225 miles
before
the next unplanned stop.

After a 3 hour wait and a couple of visits with the on-field FSS at
Greenville, MS, we found a safe path around the line of storms on the
Alabama/Mississippi border and came on home. One of the real advantages
to
a relatively high performance airplane is that if the weather allows, you
can get above most of the cumulus and eyeball your way around the
convective
stuff. I'm not sure we would have gotten around yesterday's weather in a
C-172 or Cherokee...

"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message
...
What's the narrowest runway you've ever used?

40 feet at http://www.airnav.com/airport/F14 (Wichita Valley Airport at
Wichita Falls, Texas).

At what runway width are you
comfortable?

40 feet wasn't too bad, but I'd hate it in a crosswind....probably go
elsewhere.

Among other things, I had an interesting experience yesterday
with a runway that was far narrower than any I'd used before...

On very short final, it became obvious that this strip redefined narrow.
Accoring to the AFD, it is 50' wide, but what the AFD didn't say is that
3'
tall sagebrush grows right to the edge of the strip, and occasionally cuts
into the 50' useful width. Given that 3' sagebrush will hit the RV-6's
wingtips, I probably had 10'-12' clear on each side. Catching the
sagebrush
with a wingtip would have almost certainly caused a groundloop.

Brush on the edge would, in your case, definitely be a potential problem

The 40 footer at F14 just barely covered my 38' wingspan. When I was there a
KingAir was taking off and I had to watch!! :~)

No doubt in my mind that we tend to fly as well as we have too and don't
realize how much more precise we can be until we have too.

Flying gliders with 50 ft wings makes a lot of runways 'interesting'.
Landed on at least one where you have to lift a wing to clear the lights
(Pocono Stoudsburg N53). The trick is to turn off between the lights before
you drop the wing. Too many roadways are unlandable because of reflectors -
especially out west in the 'wide open spaces' where it looks like you can
land anywhere but can't actually do it anywhere with 50' wings. I've landed
on a couple of roads where I had to pick a spot between roadsigns. A number
of glider ports have a 3 ft wide hard strip for TO and Landings with the
single wheel. Even pre-solo pilots do it. Easier than it seems - you fly
as well as you have too.

W88 in Greensboro has a longitidinal split of gravel and 20' asphalt. You
can land on either but it's strange to straddle it. Could be interesting at
night (lol)

I've always been impressed with military trained pilots who seem to have
been trained to do everything on the centerline. Just paying attention
makes it easy.

"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message
...
What's the narrowest runway you've ever used? At what runway width are
you
comfortable? Among other things, I had an interesting experience
yesterday
with a runway that was far narrower than any I'd used before...

We had gone to Dallas for Mother's day, and returned to Atlanta yesterday
in
my RV-6, which is set-up for basic VFR. The weather was marginal for
most
of the way, and we made two unscheduled stops and a couple of 180 degree
course reversals to avoid weather that was below my minimums. This turned
a
3.5 hour trip into an 8 hour odyssey.

Our first 180 turn and unscheduled stop occurred when the ceiling was
lower
than forecast, below my personal minimums, and dropping along our route of
flight. I hit the "nearest" function on the GPS, and retreated to the
nearest airfield to give the FSS a call on the cell phone (we were too low
for radio communication). As we overflew the airfield, I noticed that all
it was was a paved strip and a paved ramp. No buildings nearby. Also, the
strip looked fairly narrow, but I went ahead with the landing anyway.

On very short final, it became obvious that this strip redefined narrow.
Accoring to the AFD, it is 50' wide, but what the AFD didn't say is that
3'
tall sagebrush grows right to the edge of the strip, and occasionally cuts
into the 50' useful width. Given that 3' sagebrush will hit the RV-6's
wingtips, I probably had 10'-12' clear on each side. Catching the
sagebrush
with a wingtip would have almost certainly caused a groundloop.

With this in mind, and concentrating hard enough to cause permanant
forehead
wrinkles, I managed to keep the airplane centered on landing and rollout,
then taxiied (sp?) to the ramp, where I shut down, pulled out the cell
phone
and got exactly zero signal... (Sometimes you can't win.)

So, we fired up again, taxiied out, and I kept the bird out of the weeds
on
takeoff and off we went. In the 30 minutes our detour consumed, the
weather
along the route improved meaningfully, and we made another 225 miles
before
the next unplanned stop.

After a 3 hour wait and a couple of visits with the on-field FSS at
Greenville, MS, we found a safe path around the line of storms on the
Alabama/Mississippi border and came on home. One of the real advantages
to
a relatively high performance airplane is that if the weather allows, you
can get above most of the cumulus and eyeball your way around the
convective
stuff. I'm not sure we would have gotten around yesterday's weather in a
C-172 or Cherokee...