Stand by for more regulations/restrictions

[Clyde Woempner]

Just what GA needs, a couple of idiot's busting the TFR in DC. Thanks a lot
fella's, sure too follow will be more restrictions/regulations. What's so
hard about plotting out a course and going around these area's?? We are our
own worst enemy.
Clyde

[Marco Leon]

There are a lot of posts defending GA. I find that my patience is waning for
pilots that violate the DC airspace. We've only had, what--four years of
constant drilling on the ADIZ procedures and their level of importance? In
the era of $250 handheld GPS's and flight following, there is zero excuse
for getting lost in the DC area. What's it going to take? Mandatory
revocations of licenses? Aircraft confiscations? a shootdown??

I'm against all of this but the hundreds of ADIZ violations in DC are
swiping the feet out from under anyone trying to protect our privileges. I
remember when people scoffed at the idea of having your car confiscated
after a DWI. But that's what it got to here in NY to see some results. It
took a while, but it took a seemingly ridiculous action like that to see a
reduction in DWI's in NY. I'm afraid general aviation and the DC airspace
problem is going down a similar path.

Military pilots have a "wash-out" program and entrance into that program
takes only minor mistakes. I think aviation needs a better "wach-out"
program with higher visibility.

my 2 cents. Flame on.

Marco Leon

"Clyde Woempner" > wrote in message
...
> Just what GA needs, a couple of idiot's busting the TFR in DC. Thanks a
lot
> fella's, sure too follow will be more restrictions/regulations. What's so
> hard about plotting out a course and going around these area's?? We are
our
> own worst enemy.
> Clyde
>
>



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[Jay Honeck]

> I'm against all of this but the hundreds of ADIZ violations in DC are
> swiping the feet out from under anyone trying to protect our privileges. I
> remember when people scoffed at the idea of having your car confiscated
> after a DWI. But that's what it got to here in NY to see some results. It
> took a while, but it took a seemingly ridiculous action like that to see a
> reduction in DWI's in NY. I'm afraid general aviation and the DC airspace
> problem is going down a similar path.

Well put, Marco.

> Military pilots have a "wash-out" program and entrance into that program
> takes only minor mistakes. I think aviation needs a better "wach-out"
> program with higher visibility.

I don't think the solution is to "wash-out" pilots at the start. What
happened over D.C. has NOTHING to do with the ability to be a good pilot,
and EVERYTHING to do with a ****ty, "I don't care, I've been flying for 35
years and screw you and your rules" attitude.

I hope AOPA makes a huge deal out of this by printing the PIC's picture in
the mag and on their website. Peer pressure is the only thing that is going
to stop this kind of crap.

Either that, or we can wait for the Feds to "solve" it for us.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Mark Hansen]

On 5/12/2005 10:16, Jay Honeck wrote:

>> I'm against all of this but the hundreds of ADIZ violations in DC are
>> swiping the feet out from under anyone trying to protect our privileges. I
>> remember when people scoffed at the idea of having your car confiscated
>> after a DWI. But that's what it got to here in NY to see some results. It
>> took a while, but it took a seemingly ridiculous action like that to see a
>> reduction in DWI's in NY. I'm afraid general aviation and the DC airspace
>> problem is going down a similar path.
>
> Well put, Marco.
>
>> Military pilots have a "wash-out" program and entrance into that program
>> takes only minor mistakes. I think aviation needs a better "wach-out"
>> program with higher visibility.
>
> I don't think the solution is to "wash-out" pilots at the start. What
> happened over D.C. has NOTHING to do with the ability to be a good pilot,
> and EVERYTHING to do with a ****ty, "I don't care, I've been flying for 35
> years and screw you and your rules" attitude.

Where did you hear that? All I got from CNN last night was that the
pilots were questioned and released; nothing about how they got into
the predicament in the first place. Is there more detail published
somewhere?

Thanks,

>
> I hope AOPA makes a huge deal out of this by printing the PIC's picture in
> the mag and on their website. Peer pressure is the only thing that is going
> to stop this kind of crap.
>
> Either that, or we can wait for the Feds to "solve" it for us.


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Student
Sacramento, CA

[Jay Honeck]

>> I don't think the solution is to "wash-out" pilots at the start. What
>> happened over D.C. has NOTHING to do with the ability to be a good pilot,
>> and EVERYTHING to do with a ****ty, "I don't care, I've been flying for
>> 35 years and screw you and your rules" attitude.
>
> Where did you hear that?

Supposition on my part, but what else could it be? The alternative is to
assume that a pilot with THIRTY-FIVE YEARS of experience was unable to
navigate around the most heavily defended (and publicized) ADIZ in the
world!

Any properly motivated pilot should be able to avoid the ADIZ.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Marco Leon]

If a pilot can't navigate to within +/- 30 miles of accuracy, then ya know
what? TAKE HIS TICKET AWAY! Allow him to regain his ticket from another 40
hours of training and another checkride (which is more than fair IMHO). I
for one don't want to be sharing the pattern with that guy. And if it was
the other reason you mentioned (that he doesn't give a **** about regs),
then criminal charges are in order. To me he would be no different from that
guy who runs red lights every other day and finally winds up killing half a
family.

Think about the privilege we have in flying. How many other activities can
you think of with the potential for disturbing national governmental
operations because you screwed up? Maybe we need to start holding ourselves
to a higher standard. Heck, it may even improve GA's accident record!

Marco Leon



"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:ItMge.76068$c24.70084@attbi_s72...
>
> Any properly motivated pilot should be able to avoid the ADIZ.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>
>



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[xyzzy]

Jay Honeck wrote:

>>>I don't think the solution is to "wash-out" pilots at the start. What
>>>happened over D.C. has NOTHING to do with the ability to be a good pilot,
>>>and EVERYTHING to do with a ****ty, "I don't care, I've been flying for
>>>35 years and screw you and your rules" attitude.
>>
>>Where did you hear that?
>
>
> Supposition on my part, but what else could it be? The alternative is to
> assume that a pilot with THIRTY-FIVE YEARS of experience was unable to
> navigate around the most heavily defended (and publicized) ADIZ in the
> world!
>
> Any properly motivated pilot should be able to avoid the ADIZ.

My supposition was that some yutz took off from PA, hit direct to
Lumberton on his non-aviation GPS, and just followed that line, come
hell, high water, or TFRs. Then I heard on the news that the student
pilot's family had said he had been concerned about avoiding the ADIZ.
So how did they get into it? It'll be interesting to see what the
details are, when they come out.

[Jim Burns]

>> What
> > happened over D.C. has NOTHING to do with the ability to be a good
pilot,
> > and EVERYTHING to do with a ****ty, "I don't care, I've been flying for
35
> > years and screw you and your rules" attitude.

Show up at an airport, any day, and you'll be suprised how often you see
this attitude. What sucks is that it isn't brought to the attention of
on-looking students so they can learn that it is wrong and that no matter
how old you get or how many hours you have in your log book, stupid is still
stupid. It seems that only after a preventible mistake, incident, or
accident occurs do other pilots start commenting about it and other people
learn from their blood.

I'd be willing to bet that somewhere there is a pilot that has questioned
this instructors methods, decision making, planning, or attitude in the
past. Why didn't that pilot speak up? Why don't we speak up when we see
another pilot do something stupid even if it would possibly save lives or
help preserve other pilots freedoms of flight?

Are we too proud? Too embarassed? Fearfull of critcism? Unsure who to
report such stupidity to? Fear of interrogation by the local FSDO?

What makes pilots clam up and turn away from an offending pilot when they
walk into the FBO bragging about their latest stunt? Disassociation is the
most probable reason, but why not speak up and tell the offender what the
other pilots are all thinking?

I'm not saying that we need to jump all over the offender and embarass him
to the point of never flying again. But I am saying that we should at least
approach the individual at the proper time and place and suggest his actions
could be considered inappropriate and most likely dangerous. The very least
this can do is bring to his attention that people are watching and they
don't like what they see.

Jim

[Roy Smith]

Marco Leon <mmleon(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
> If a pilot can't navigate to within +/- 30 miles of accuracy [...] I
> for one don't want to be sharing the pattern with that guy.

Actually, I don't think you have to worry about that. If he can't
find the airport, you won't be sharing the pattern with him :-)

[Dude]

"Clyde Woempner" > wrote in message
...
> Just what GA needs, a couple of idiot's busting the TFR in DC. Thanks a
> lot
> fella's, sure too follow will be more restrictions/regulations. What's so
> hard about plotting out a course and going around these area's?? We are
> our
> own worst enemy.
> Clyde
>

Okay, so on the one hand, you are absolutely correct.

On the other hand, as soon as pointing out that the pilot was clearly not
being one of our best representatives, shouldn't we point out the idiocy of
the response?

Seriously. You have a C150 flying over the capital (being escorted by two
F16's which we can assume are armed). Isn't evacuation a little overkill?
If he had vectored towards a likely target, can we not assume he would have
been shot down by air or ground defenses? Are we equally well defended and
ready for attack by truck? Truck barriers are easaily defeated using a two
truck attack.

How about we run screaming for the hills whenever anything larger than a van
is seen in DC? After all, the only supposed threat from a plane smaller
than cabin class is an NBC weapon that everyone with any sense knows is more
effectively delivered by truck.

The real question is: Why are our leaders are so foolish to fall for their
own feel good rhetoric?

[Ron Natalie]

Clyde Woempner wrote:
> Just what GA needs, a couple of idiot's busting the TFR in DC.

If it only were a TFR. The FAA finally relented and stopped
calling it temporary quite some time ago.

[LWG]

I, for one, would like to see a much greater emphasis put on flight
following. Yes, I know the PIC is still ultimately responsible no matter
he's told over the radio, but I would prefer if ATC had an obligation to
provide FF upon request absent unusual circumstances.

Les


"xyzzy" > wrote in message
...
> Jay Honeck wrote:
>
>>>>I don't think the solution is to "wash-out" pilots at the start. What
>>>>happened over D.C. has NOTHING to do with the ability to be a good
>>>>pilot, and EVERYTHING to do with a ****ty, "I don't care, I've been
>>>>flying for 35 years and screw you and your rules" attitude.
>>>
>>>Where did you hear that?
>>
>>
>> Supposition on my part, but what else could it be? The alternative is
>> to assume that a pilot with THIRTY-FIVE YEARS of experience was unable to
>> navigate around the most heavily defended (and publicized) ADIZ in the
>> world!
>>
>> Any properly motivated pilot should be able to avoid the ADIZ.
>
> My supposition was that some yutz took off from PA, hit direct to
> Lumberton on his non-aviation GPS, and just followed that line, come hell,
> high water, or TFRs. Then I heard on the news that the student pilot's
> family had said he had been concerned about avoiding the ADIZ. So how did
> they get into it? It'll be interesting to see what the details are, when
> they come out.
>

[Bob Fry]

>>>>> "JH" == Jay Honeck > writes:
JH> What happened over D.C. has NOTHING to do with the
JH> ability to be a good pilot, and EVERYTHING to do with a
JH> ****ty, "I don't care, I've been flying for 35 years and screw
JH> you and your rules" attitude.

Really? So you know the pilots involved, or at least you've called
and talked to them? And of course you've never made any mistake in
anything, and never will. Right.

Sure the pilots should not have busted the ADIZ. But maybe the
fundamental problem is our continously eroding freedoms (accompanied
by ever more shrill proclamations by politicians about liberty).

[Jay Honeck]

> JH> What happened over D.C. has NOTHING to do with the
> JH> ability to be a good pilot, and EVERYTHING to do with a
> JH> ****ty, "I don't care, I've been flying for 35 years and screw
> JH> you and your rules" attitude.
>
> Really? So you know the pilots involved, or at least you've called
> and talked to them? And of course you've never made any mistake in
> anything, and never will. Right.

Come on, Bob. Stop defending this dolt.

We all make mistakes -- but not over the White House.

This guy made so many mistakes end-to-end that it's hard to see anything but
incompetence, a jerk, or both.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[George Patterson]

xyzzy wrote:
>
> So how did they get into it? It'll be interesting to see what the
> details are, when they come out.

You won't find them here. So far, we have reports that their radio was out,
another report that they spoke to the fighters on 121.5. We have a report that
they were squawking 1200, and other reports that they got and were squawking an
appropriate ADIZ code. Even if someone who knows the facts posts them, they'll
be lost in the garbage and contrary opinions.

The media is going to be just as bad. My personal opinion is that AOPA will be
the best source of information, but they'll probably want to keep as quiet as
they can and let this die down.

George Patterson
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures. Right next to the
mashed potatoes.

[Marco Leon]

HA! Touche! Unless of course he thought he was at a different airport and
therefore talking on a different frequency. That has happened more times at
my Class D airport than I care to think about.


"Roy Smith" > wrote in message
...
> Marco Leon <mmleon(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
>> If a pilot can't navigate to within +/- 30 miles of accuracy [...] I
>> for one don't want to be sharing the pattern with that guy.
>
> Actually, I don't think you have to worry about that. If he can't
> find the airport, you won't be sharing the pattern with him :-)



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[Greg Farris]

In article >, says...

>Just what GA needs, a couple of idiot's busting the TFR in DC. Thanks a lot
>fella's, sure too follow will be more restrictions/regulations. What's so
>hard about plotting out a course and going around these area's?? We are our
>own worst enemy.
>Clyde
>

I don't think it's correct to assume that the incident will lead to further
regulations. Instead, I think there is pressure on pilots, and AOPA, to show
they are being proactive about it and self-policing. I think AOPA will have
to make a statement, and this will have to include voluntary measures that
satisfy the FAA's sense of effectiveness. Boyer will be smart enough not to
take the defense of these pilots, as this would invite further regulatory
measures.

The PIC can, and in my own opinion should, face certificate action from the
FAA. The fact that the police decided not to pursue criminal charges, because
there was no criminal intent, does not preclude civil action from the FAA.

In practical terms, we have to accept the existence of these areas, both the
fixed and temporary types, and the fact that they are taken very seriously.
We have to show that we are on top of it by implementing awareness measures
and improving effectiveness of the tools we already have. How do you bet that
150 had a portable GPS on board? Most planes in the US do these days.
It's possible that that tool could have helped them avoid this situation, had
TFR/ADIZ avoidance been given a higher priority in their planning.

Incidents like this one have to be reduced to zero and fast - this type of
publicity is really bad for all of us.

G Faris

[Rich]

Well Clyde...
I'm sure you KNOW that the problem with that 150 was that they had NARCO
radios in it.

You KNOW that, don't you?

Damn NARCO radios!


Clyde Woempner wrote:
> Just what GA needs, a couple of idiot's busting the TFR in DC. Thanks a lot
> fella's, sure too follow will be more restrictions/regulations. What's so
> hard about plotting out a course and going around these area's?? We are our
> own worst enemy.
> Clyde
>
>

[xyzzy]

Jim Burns wrote:

>>>What
>>>happened over D.C. has NOTHING to do with the ability to be a good
>
> pilot,
>
>>>and EVERYTHING to do with a ****ty, "I don't care, I've been flying for
>
> 35
>
>>>years and screw you and your rules" attitude.
>
>
> Show up at an airport, any day, and you'll be suprised how often you see
> this attitude. What sucks is that it isn't brought to the attention of
> on-looking students so they can learn that it is wrong and that no matter
> how old you get or how many hours you have in your log book, stupid is still
> stupid. It seems that only after a preventible mistake, incident, or
> accident occurs do other pilots start commenting about it and other people
> learn from their blood.
>
> I'd be willing to bet that somewhere there is a pilot that has questioned
> this instructors methods, decision making, planning, or attitude in the

Turns out neither pilot was an instructor, according to AOPA.

[Howard Nelson]

Giving resolution of this matter some thought. In my opinion the honorable
thing would be for the PIC of the C150 to apologize to the pilot community
(through AOPA), voluntarily give up flying and return his certificates to
the FAA. No hearings, no lawyers, no further fuss. He should hang his head
in shame. I also believe, as was stated earlier, that "shunning" is an
appropriate response from the aviation community towards this individual who
seems very deficient in navigating skills. Another interesting question.
What did his last BFR consist of? Does he not know how to navigate or did he
demonstrate that he could plot an appropriate course and just not follow
that training on Wednesday?

Howard
C182

[Clyde Woempner]

I have no idea what radio's they have, and I don't care, but I know I would
never buy another Narco Product, based on my experience with this company.
In fact I don't have the Narco anymore, I took it out and trashed it, it has
a happy home in a dump someplace, just where it belongs.
Clyde

"Rich" > wrote in message
...
> Well Clyde...
> I'm sure you KNOW that the problem with that 150 was that they had NARCO
> radios in it.
>
> You KNOW that, don't you?
>
> Damn NARCO radios!
>
>
> Clyde Woempner wrote:
> > Just what GA needs, a couple of idiot's busting the TFR in DC. Thanks a
lot
> > fella's, sure too follow will be more restrictions/regulations. What's
so
> > hard about plotting out a course and going around these area's?? We are
our
> > own worst enemy.
> > Clyde
> >
> >
>

[Greg Farris]

In article >,
says...
>
>
>Giving resolution of this matter some thought. In my opinion the honorable
>thing would be for the PIC of the C150 to apologize to the pilot community
>(through AOPA), voluntarily give up flying and return his certificates to
>the FAA. No hearings, no lawyers, no further fuss. He should hang his head
>in shame. I also believe, as was stated earlier, that "shunning" is an
>appropriate response from the aviation community towards this individual who
>seems very deficient in navigating skills. Another interesting question.
>What did his last BFR consist of? Does he not know how to navigate or did he
>demonstrate that he could plot an appropriate course and just not follow
>that training on Wednesday?
>


And while he's at it he should sacrifice one of his children in a propellor
blade! Come on - let the one who has never gotten lost on a VFR cross-country
cast the first Narco radio!

It's likely he will get a certificate suspension, which I feel is
appropriate, and I'm probably not alone. It would be a great gesture if he
could use his 30 or 90-day no-fly time to participate in an AOPA airspace
awareness program, as this would allow AOPA to use the event for some
constructive publicity to try to turn around some of the negative.

We need to place airspace awareness at a higher level of importance in our
flight planning. In Europe, there is Class "A" (not B) airspace around some
major cities, and you can bet students and beginning pilots do not bust it
often. They learn early on how important it is - and that they will be
guaranteed to have their ticket pulled if they enter it. So "knowing I'm NOT
in the ADIZ, or heading into it" is more important than "knowing exactly
where I am", at any given instant. If I'm not violating the ADIZ, then I have
some time to figure out my position. Check that first. When planning, find a
few landmarks (if you're against radionavigation, or your airplane is) to
help you steer clear, then breathe easy and enjoy the scenery. If your blood
pressure doesn't go up a click or two, and prompt a quick scan of all your
navigation devices as soon as you come near it, then you're not taking it
seriously enough.

We've got no choice. They've shown they're serious about it - and if we don't
get the violation rate way down (like 0) very fast we will be facing new
regulations, and it will not taste sweet.

G Faris

[Chris]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:_9Vge.77272$WI3.30450@attbi_s71...
>> JH> What happened over D.C. has NOTHING to do with the
>> JH> ability to be a good pilot, and EVERYTHING to do with a
>> JH> ****ty, "I don't care, I've been flying for 35 years and screw
>> JH> you and your rules" attitude.
>>
>> Really? So you know the pilots involved, or at least you've called
>> and talked to them? And of course you've never made any mistake in
>> anything, and never will. Right.
>
> Come on, Bob. Stop defending this dolt.
>
> We all make mistakes -- but not over the White House.
>
> This guy made so many mistakes end-to-end that it's hard to see anything
> but incompetence, a jerk, or both.

He made a fool of himself and he made a fool of all the police and the
security apparatus, the Congress, etc.

On that basis, surely it is time for all to sit down see how daft it all is
and come up with a rational way forward.

Just a transatlantic view and its sad to see the most powerful nation in the
world all f***ed up by an old man in a 150.

Come on guys, get a grip and give some comfort to the world you are supposed
to be leading.

[Matt Barrow]

U.S. to Spend Billions More to Alter Security Systems

http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/000583.html

[Marco Leon]

I bet there were a whole bunch of people who were half-glad this happened.
And I'm not talking about terrorists either.

How many "dress rehearsals" do you suppose one can get before the
"real-deal" attack?

Bad for pilots, good for emergency planners.

Marco Leon

"Chris" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
> news:_9Vge.77272$WI3.30450@attbi_s71...
>
> He made a fool of himself and he made a fool of all the police and the
> security apparatus, the Congress, etc.
>
> On that basis, surely it is time for all to sit down see how daft it all
is
> and come up with a rational way forward.
>
> Just a transatlantic view and its sad to see the most powerful nation in
the
> world all f***ed up by an old man in a 150.
>
> Come on guys, get a grip and give some comfort to the world you are
supposed
> to be leading.
>
>
>



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[Orval Fairbairn]

In article >,
"Chris" > wrote:

> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
> news:_9Vge.77272$WI3.30450@attbi_s71...
> >> JH> What happened over D.C. has NOTHING to do with the
> >> JH> ability to be a good pilot, and EVERYTHING to do with a
> >> JH> ****ty, "I don't care, I've been flying for 35 years and screw
> >> JH> you and your rules" attitude.
> >>
> >> Really? So you know the pilots involved, or at least you've called
> >> and talked to them? And of course you've never made any mistake in
> >> anything, and never will. Right.
> >
> > Come on, Bob. Stop defending this dolt.
> >
> > We all make mistakes -- but not over the White House.
> >
> > This guy made so many mistakes end-to-end that it's hard to see anything
> > but incompetence, a jerk, or both.
>
> He made a fool of himself and he made a fool of all the police and the
> security apparatus, the Congress, etc.


CORRECTION! The only person he made a fool of was himself! The police
and security apparatus made themselves look like fools.



> On that basis, surely it is time for all to sit down see how daft it all is
> and come up with a rational way forward.

Agreed. The problem here is that security is usually delegated to those
who have no aptitude for anything else. The whole lot should be fired.


> Just a transatlantic view and its sad to see the most powerful nation in the
> world all f***ed up by an old man in a 150.

How true!

> Come on guys, get a grip and give some comfort to the world you are supposed
> to be leading.

--
Remove _'s from email address to talk to me.

[Ron Natalie]

Orval Fairbairn wrote:

> CORRECTION! The only person he made a fool of was himself! The police
> and security apparatus made themselves look like fools.
>
Actually, the police and military are patting themselves on the back on
how well they handled the situation and how prepared they were if this
had been an actual emergency.

The only real snivelers have been the Mayor of DC crying that he wasn't
told fast enough (his office realized something was up when they saw the
White House staff running out of their buildings) and the scumbag Daley
in Chicago who has been bent out of shape that he can't control the
skies over Chicago the way he controls the airports on the ground there.

[No Spam]

On 5/12/05 11:52, "Marco Leon" <mmleonatyahoo.com> wrote:

> There are a lot of posts defending GA. I find that my patience is waning for
> pilots that violate the DC airspace. We've only had, what--four years of
> constant drilling on the ADIZ procedures and their level of importance? In
> the era of $250 handheld GPS's and flight following, there is zero excuse
> for getting lost in the DC area. What's it going to take? Mandatory
> revocations of licenses? Aircraft confiscations? a shootdown??
>
> I'm against all of this but the hundreds of ADIZ violations in DC are
> swiping the feet out from under anyone trying to protect our privileges. I
> remember when people scoffed at the idea of having your car confiscated
> after a DWI. But that's what it got to here in NY to see some results. It
> took a while, but it took a seemingly ridiculous action like that to see a
> reduction in DWI's in NY. I'm afraid general aviation and the DC airspace
> problem is going down a similar path.
>
> Military pilots have a "wash-out" program and entrance into that program
> takes only minor mistakes. I think aviation needs a better "wach-out"
> program with higher visibility.
>
> my 2 cents. Flame on.
>
> Marco Leon

Well said, Marco.

Flying is a privilege, not a right, as is driving a car. If one has
demonstrated the incapacity to fly responsible, that privilege should be
revoked.

-> Don
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx

[David Lesher]

Pilot Was Ill-Prepared, Froze in Flight, FAA Says

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/13/AR2005051301570.html

Saturday, May 14, 2005; Page B01

The pilot who caused a midday panic in Washington on Wednesday failed
to get briefings about the weather and restricted airspace and became
lost minutes after leaving a Pennsylvania airport, Federal Aviation
Administration records show.

Hayden "Jim" Sheaffer, 69, froze when he saw a Black Hawk helicopter
appear near his right wing while flying toward the White House and
had difficulty operating his small, single-engine aircraft, officials
said yesterday. It took the valiant effort of Sheaffer's student-pilot
companion, Troy D. Martin, who had only 30 logged hours of flight
time, to take over the controls and land the plane at an airport in
Frederick, officials said.

......



Wonder how well he did on his BFR's....?


--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, "Howard Nelson" > said:
>What did his last BFR consist of? Does he not know how to navigate or did he

Based on some of the old farts I see flying around here, I think a lot of
these guys get BFRs from their best buddy who makes them do a touch and go
and makes sure they can fold a sectional and spends the rest of the two or
three hours shooting the **** about what flying was like in the good old
days.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we
are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and
servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." -- Teddy Roosevelt

[Harlo Peterson]

"No Spam" > wrote in message
...
> Flying is a privilege, not a right, as is driving a car. If one has
> demonstrated the incapacity to fly responsible, that privilege should be
> revoked.

No flying is a right available to anyone who can prove that they can safely
exercise the right. It is not a privilege. US pilots do not have licenses to
fly, they have certificates that just document ability. Like all rights that
involve public safety this one can be regulated and people exercising the
right must comply with regulations. The pilot in this case will lose his
pilot certificate as he proved he is unable to exercise his right to fly
safely and responsibly.