Cross country to Canada [Archive]

JJS

May 14th 05, 02:20 PM

Ladies and gentlemen,

I've been invited on a Canadian fishing trip and would like to fly
myself and one passenger to Red Lake, Ontario. We leave June 16th. I
am in the process of preliminary flight planning. I've browsed the
AOPA website for info and called Canadian customs. This will be my
first border crossing and would appreciate any help from you guys.

Back ground info: I am a VFR pilot only. I have around 800 hours and
I have 3 or 4 cross country trips of similar length under my belt. I
am more comfortable with non-towered airports but have flown under the
Dallas - Fort Worth Class B area some and have no real fear of towered
airports. I've flown into Oshkosh twice. I just trained and am more
familiar with non-towered fields and seem to meet nice people at
smaller fields. To be brutally honest, my radio skills are adequate
but probably not much better, (in spite of reading Bob Gardners book).
Mainly just from lack of practice. There are few towered fields near
my home base. I have an autogas STC for my Cherokee 140 and will use
it if available, but it is not a show stopper at all if I have to buy
100LL. The Cherokee will be loaded to within 100 pounds of gross, so
adequate runways are a must, say 2500 feet minimum. A leg length of
about 300 NM is preferred due to fuel & bladder management issues.

1. I would appreciate any advice on airports and small airplane
friendly FBO's along the 900 + nautical mile route from Woodward,
Ok.(KWWR) - Grand Island, Ne. (KGRI) - Sioux Falls, SD (KFSD) -
Baudette, Mn (KBDE) - Red Lake, Ontario (CYRL).

2. Due to the trip length we will probably overnight in Baudette or
somewhere near and I would appreciate recommendations concerning
hotel, rental or courtesy car, and eatery accommodations in that area.
AirNav.com's fuel price data is pitifully ancient on many airports
along this route.

3. If anyone has used Baudette customs coming back into the states, I
would like to hear of your experiences there.

4. Looking over the charts I ordered, the area between Baudette and
Red Lake appears to be full of swamp, lakes and forest with very, very
few emergency landing sites. Safer route suggestions along this leg
would be greatly appreciated, especially from anyone familiar with the
area and its terrain. A detour, even of a hundred miles or more in
the interest of safety will be carefully considered.

5. For those of you with meteorological crystal balls... What can I
expect for weather conditions in the vicinity of Red Lake and North of
the border in mid - June. I am familiar with the thunderstorms
marching across the plains this time of year but not so familiar with
weather systems that seem to park themselves for days at a time over
one area. Is there much chance of getting weathered in for more than
a day or two?

--
Joe Schneider
8437R
(Remove No Spam to Reply)
X-No-archive: yes

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Grumman-581

May 14th 05, 07:14 PM

"JJS" wrote in message ...
>I am more comfortable with non-towered airports but have flown
> under the Dallas - Fort Worth Class B area some

If you're from (or can go to) Texas, why in the world would you want to go
to Canada????

You'll be hard pressed to find any Lone Star beer up there, only that
caribou **** that they call beer...

You want an answer from the group and you use x-no-archive? Must not really
want an answer, I guess...

Icebound

May 14th 05, 07:28 PM

"JJS" <jschneider@remove socks cebridge.net> wrote in message
...
> Ladies and gentlemen,
>
> I've been invited on a Canadian fishing trip and would like to fly myself
> and one passenger to Red Lake, Ontario.

If this is "just" a fishing trip, have you considered going into, say,
Kenora CYQK, or Thunder Bay CYQT, and having a local operator fly you out to
your destination??? I have no idea of the relative costs, but it would give
you a view of the area and help you make up your mind whether you want to
fly this area (North of Baudette, and especially north of Kenora) without
some bush-flight training.

....snip...
>
> 4. Looking over the charts I ordered, the area between Baudette and Red
> Lake appears to be full of swamp, lakes and forest with very, very few
> emergency landing sites.

A lot of the small commercial operations and most of the private operation
in the area is probably done on floats. This is not just an area of "very
few emergency landing sites", it is also "very few settlements or
habitation", especially north of Kenora.

....snip...
> 5. For those of you with meteorological crystal balls... What can I
> expect for weather conditions in the vicinity of Red Lake and North of the
> border in mid - June. I am familiar with the thunderstorms marching
> across the plains this time of year but not so familiar with weather
> systems that seem to park themselves for days at a time over one area. Is
> there much chance of getting weathered in for more than a day or two?

There is *always* a chance of getting weathered in for more than a day or
two (VFR), as there is *always* a chance of getting perfectly flyable
weather for a week or two. I don't have records of ceilings and visibility,
but I do have rainfall. At Red Lake in 1999, for example, there was about
2/10 inch of rain total, for the whole period June 10 to 21, with 5
consecutive no-rain days. In the same period in 2000, the amount of rain
was over 6 inches, and it did NOT rain on only three days in that period.
Now, I suspect a good deal of that was from thunder-showers... but some of
it may have come from low-ceiling drizzle....I have no way of knowing.

In short, it is too early to tell what you will get, with any degree of
certainty.

Martin Hotze

May 14th 05, 09:38 PM

On Sat, 14 May 2005 18:14:50 GMT, Grumman-581 wrote:

>You want an answer from the group and you use x-no-archive? Must not really
>want an answer, I guess...

what has the extra header to do with wanting an answer or not? good
archives honor the wish of the poster and don't archive the posting.

if it is easily achievable that respectful archives honor my wish then I
will request this wish.

#m

f-up2poster (this means: email replies preferred; for me: EOD, OT)

--
http://www.hotze.priv.at/album/aviation/caution.jpg

Grumman-581

May 14th 05, 10:22 PM

"Martin Hotze" wrote in message
...
> what has the extra header to do with wanting an answer or not? good
> archives honor the wish of the poster and don't archive the posting.
>
> if it is easily achievable that respectful archives honor my wish then I
> will request this wish.

What it means is that the message might not stay around long enough for
*some* people to actually read it... Personally, I believe that if it's
worth posting once, you shouldn't try to hide it later... The USENET
archives are great search tools and the x-archive crap attempts to defeat
that...

Martin Hotze

May 14th 05, 11:22 PM

On Sat, 14 May 2005 21:22:39 GMT, Grumman-581 wrote:

>> what has the extra header to do with wanting an answer or not? good
>> archives honor the wish of the poster and don't archive the posting.
>>
>> if it is easily achievable that respectful archives honor my wish then I
>> will request this wish.
>
>What it means is that the message might not stay around long enough for
>*some* people to actually read it...

it (the posting) might be worthless in a wekk or so. Typically a newsserver
holds articles for 1 or 2 months, depending on what the newsadmin has set.

> Personally, I believe that if it's
>worth posting once, you shouldn't try to hide it later...

I don't like profiling.
<http://groups-beta.google.com/groups?&as_uauthors=grumman%23%23%23%40gmail.com>

> The USENET
>archives are great search tools and the x-archive crap attempts to defeat
>that...

but it it up to the poster if he want's his postings to be part of the
archive.

"gun control will help the government to fight terrorism." (but you'll
never agree, you're also willingly and knowingly breaking gun control laws,
as you posted on March 23rd)

but just as you wrote on March 23rd: "In the end, Darwin always wins... "

#m
--
http://www.hotze.priv.at/album/aviation/caution.jpg

JJS

May 15th 05, 01:38 AM

"Icebound" > wrote in message
...
>
> If this is "just" a fishing trip, have you considered going into,
> say, Kenora CYQK, or Thunder Bay CYQT, and having a local operator
> fly you out to your destination??? I have no idea of the relative
> costs, but it would give you a view of the area and help you make up
> your mind whether you want to fly this area (North of Baudette, and
> especially north of Kenora) without some bush-flight training.

> A lot of the small commercial operations and most of the private
> operation in the area is probably done on floats. This is not just
> an area of "very few emergency landing sites", it is also "very few
> settlements or habitation", especially north of Kenora.
>
> There is *always* a chance of getting weathered in for more than a
> day or two (VFR), as there is *always* a chance of getting perfectly
> flyable weather for a week or two. I don't have records of ceilings
> and visibility, but I do have rainfall. At Red Lake in 1999, for
> example, there was about 2/10 inch of rain total, for the whole
> period June 10 to 21, with 5 consecutive no-rain days. In the same
> period in 2000, the amount of rain was over 6 inches, and it did NOT
> rain on only three days in that period. Now, I suspect a good deal
> of that was from thunder-showers... but some of it may have come
> from low-ceiling drizzle....I have no way of knowing.
>
> In short, it is too early to tell what you will get, with any degree
> of certainty.

Thanks for the weather info, Icebound. I knew it was a stretch
asking, but was hoping someone was familiar with the area and could
generalize. Your post was helpful.

The trip was planned by other people many months ago. The main guy
that set it up has gone about 10 or 11 years in a row. They were
going to drive up to Red Lake from various parts of the country. A
co-worker invited me to go with them. Rather than drive the 1381
miles which I've been told takes about 24 hours, I'd much prefer to
fly for 10 or 12, and think it would be quite an adventure. We are to
be picked up by float plane at Red Lake and taken into the bush.

I called the float plane company today but the man I was referred to
wasn't there. He is supposed to try and call me back tomorrow. I
fully intend to ask him about preferred routes, but wanted as much
info as possible. Bush pilot training is going to be hard to get in
N.W. Oklahoma.

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JJS

May 15th 05, 01:54 AM

> If you're from (or can go to) Texas, why in the world would you want
> to go
> to Canada????

I'm from Oklahoma. (My mother is from Winnipeg. So I'm drawn to the
North by my Canuck blood line, I guess). Seriously, I want to go
catch some big fish. More important than that, I want to get far, far
away from a very stressful, intense job for several days.

> You'll be hard pressed to find any Lone Star beer up there, only
> that
> caribou **** that they call beer...

Lone Star reminds me of that Scotch Buy brand beer that Ideal Food
Stores or Safeway used to sell here locally. My Dad used to buy it
because it was all he could afford. I promise to sample some Canadian
beer and tell you which I liked best. (BTW we will be very near
Woodland Caribou Prov. Park, so you may have a point about their
beer... but I hope you are wrong).

> You want an answer from the group and you use x-no-archive? Must
> not really
> want an answer, I guess...

I took the no-archive out of my sig line. Sorry it offended you so.
I do wish to gather the groups collective wisdom so that I can make
this a safe adventure. Upon reflection, you are correct and others
may learn from this trip. If others have a desire, I will send a
report on how it went when I get back.

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JJS

May 15th 05, 02:01 AM

Reposted without the no-archive sig line per Mr./Mrs./Ms.Grumman-581's
wishes.

>
> I've been invited on a Canadian fishing trip and would like to fly
> myself and one passenger to Red Lake, Ontario. We leave June 16th.
> I am in the process of preliminary flight planning. I've browsed
> the AOPA website for info and called Canadian customs. This will be
> my first border crossing and would appreciate any help from you
> guys.
>
> Back ground info: I am a VFR pilot only. I have around 800 hours
> and I have 3 or 4 cross country trips of similar length under my
> belt. I am more comfortable with non-towered airports but have
> flown under the Dallas - Fort Worth Class B area some and have no
> real fear of towered airports. I've flown into Oshkosh twice. I
> just trained and am more familiar with non-towered fields and seem
> to meet nice people at smaller fields. To be brutally honest, my
> radio skills are adequate but probably not much better, (in spite of
> reading Bob Gardners book). Mainly just from lack of practice.
> There are few towered fields near my home base. I have an autogas
> STC for my Cherokee 140 and will use it if available, but it is not
> a show stopper at all if I have to buy 100LL. The Cherokee will be
> loaded to within 100 pounds of gross, so adequate runways are a
> must, say 2500 feet minimum. A leg length of about 300 NM is
> preferred due to fuel & bladder management issues.
>
> 1. I would appreciate any advice on airports and small airplane
> friendly FBO's along the 900 + nautical mile route from Woodward,
> Ok.(KWWR) - Grand Island, Ne. (KGRI) - Sioux Falls, SD (KFSD) -
> Baudette, Mn (KBDE) - Red Lake, Ontario (CYRL).
>
> 2. Due to the trip length we will probably overnight in Baudette or
> somewhere near and I would appreciate recommendations concerning
> hotel, rental or courtesy car, and eatery accommodations in that
> area. AirNav.com's fuel price data is pitifully ancient on many
> airports along this route.
>
> 3. If anyone has used Baudette customs coming back into the states,
> I would like to hear of your experiences there.
>
> 4. Looking over the charts I ordered, the area between Baudette and
> Red Lake appears to be full of swamp, lakes and forest with very,
> very few emergency landing sites. Safer route suggestions along
> this leg would be greatly appreciated, especially from anyone
> familiar with the area and its terrain. A detour, even of a hundred
> miles or more in the interest of safety will be carefully
> considered.
>
> 5. For those of you with meteorological crystal balls... What can I
> expect for weather conditions in the vicinity of Red Lake and North
> of the border in mid - June. I am familiar with the thunderstorms
> marching across the plains this time of year but not so familiar
> with weather systems that seem to park themselves for days at a time
> over one area. Is there much chance of getting weathered in for
> more than a day or two?
>
> --
> Joe Schneider
> 8437R
> (Remove No Spam to Reply)

>
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
> News==----
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> 120,000+ Newsgroups
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Icebound

May 15th 05, 02:49 AM

"JJS" <jschneider@remove socks cebridge.net> wrote in message
...
>
>
>> You'll be hard pressed to find any Lone Star beer up there, only that
>> caribou **** that they call beer...
>
> Lone Star reminds me of that Scotch Buy brand beer that Ideal Food Stores
> or Safeway used to sell here locally. My Dad used to buy it because it
> was all he could afford. I promise to sample some Canadian beer and tell
> you which I liked best.

I will personally guarantee that you will like the beer. It will forever
spoil you for that glorified US soda pop.

You will *not* like the price, even in spite of the favourable dollar
exchange.

private

May 15th 05, 03:59 AM

I can't help you with terrain but

When the local FSS were closed NavCan recognized that the briefers in the
centers may lack the local knowledge that the local FSS had provided. A
project to gather this local knowledge for briefer training lead to the
production of weather manuals for each of the weather regions. These
manuals are available on their website. The general weather chapter seems
to be common to each manual.

for weather manuals

http://www.navcanada.ca
click english
under flight operations
click local weather manuals

for aviation weather

http://www.navcanada.ca
click english
under flight operations
click aviation weather web site
click route data tab(my favorite) or local data tab

Blue skies to all

"JJS" <jschneider@remove socks cebridge.net> wrote in message
...
> Reposted without the no-archive sig line per Mr./Mrs./Ms.Grumman-581's
> wishes.
>
> >
> > I've been invited on a Canadian fishing trip and would like to fly
> > myself and one passenger to Red Lake, Ontario. We leave June 16th.
> > I am in the process of preliminary flight planning. I've browsed
> > the AOPA website for info and called Canadian customs. This will be
> > my first border crossing and would appreciate any help from you
> > guys.
> >
> > Back ground info: I am a VFR pilot only. I have around 800 hours
> > and I have 3 or 4 cross country trips of similar length under my
> > belt. I am more comfortable with non-towered airports but have
> > flown under the Dallas - Fort Worth Class B area some and have no
> > real fear of towered airports. I've flown into Oshkosh twice. I
> > just trained and am more familiar with non-towered fields and seem
> > to meet nice people at smaller fields. To be brutally honest, my
> > radio skills are adequate but probably not much better, (in spite of
> > reading Bob Gardners book). Mainly just from lack of practice.
> > There are few towered fields near my home base. I have an autogas
> > STC for my Cherokee 140 and will use it if available, but it is not
> > a show stopper at all if I have to buy 100LL. The Cherokee will be
> > loaded to within 100 pounds of gross, so adequate runways are a
> > must, say 2500 feet minimum. A leg length of about 300 NM is
> > preferred due to fuel & bladder management issues.
> >
> > 1. I would appreciate any advice on airports and small airplane
> > friendly FBO's along the 900 + nautical mile route from Woodward,
> > Ok.(KWWR) - Grand Island, Ne. (KGRI) - Sioux Falls, SD (KFSD) -
> > Baudette, Mn (KBDE) - Red Lake, Ontario (CYRL).
> >
> > 2. Due to the trip length we will probably overnight in Baudette or
> > somewhere near and I would appreciate recommendations concerning
> > hotel, rental or courtesy car, and eatery accommodations in that
> > area. AirNav.com's fuel price data is pitifully ancient on many
> > airports along this route.
> >
> > 3. If anyone has used Baudette customs coming back into the states,
> > I would like to hear of your experiences there.
> >
> > 4. Looking over the charts I ordered, the area between Baudette and
> > Red Lake appears to be full of swamp, lakes and forest with very,
> > very few emergency landing sites. Safer route suggestions along
> > this leg would be greatly appreciated, especially from anyone
> > familiar with the area and its terrain. A detour, even of a hundred
> > miles or more in the interest of safety will be carefully
> > considered.
> >
> > 5. For those of you with meteorological crystal balls... What can I
> > expect for weather conditions in the vicinity of Red Lake and North
> > of the border in mid - June. I am familiar with the thunderstorms
> > marching across the plains this time of year but not so familiar
> > with weather systems that seem to park themselves for days at a time
> > over one area. Is there much chance of getting weathered in for
> > more than a day or two?
> >
> > --
> > Joe Schneider
> > 8437R
> > (Remove No Spam to Reply)
>
> >
> >
> >
> > ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
> > News==----
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> > 120,000+ Newsgroups
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> > Encryption =----
>
>
>
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News==----
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Newsgroups
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Icebound

May 15th 05, 04:23 AM

"JJS" <jschneider@remove socks cebridge.net> wrote in message
...
>
> "Icebound" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
....
>> A lot of the small commercial operations and most of the private
>> operation in the area is probably done on floats. This is not just an
>> area of "very few emergency landing sites", it is also "very few
>> settlements or habitation", especially north of Kenora.
>>
....
> The trip was planned by other people many months ago. .......
> Rather than drive the 1381 miles which I've been told takes about 24
> hours, I'd much prefer to fly for 10 or 12, and think it would be quite an
> adventure.

You might want to take the survival-equipment regulations seriously:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/Regserv/Affairs/cars/PART6/602.htm#602_61

especially for the 80 nautical miles north of Kenora to Red Lake.

It is *only* 80 miles but you will have to be prepared to be intimidated (on
wheels) if you haven't flown over
sparsely-settled-continuous-forest-and-water areas before. Even so,
although surface settlements are sparse, there ought to be quite a bit of
traffic (float traffic) along that route, especially in the immediate
vicinity of Kenora and Red Lake.

And the YRL VOR and RL ndb should help you find the place, if you are so
equipped :-)

You mentioned that you have the "charts". Do you also have the Aerodrome
Facilities information (Canadian Flight Supplement)
http://makeashorterlink.com/?Q1312341B
You would want the pages for Red Lake, of course, and probably Kenora.
Maybe a few others "near" the route, Ear Lake, Vermillion Bay, etc.

Don't forget that in Canada you *must* file a flight plan with FSS (or a
flight itinerary with a responsible person who will contact FSS), even for
Day VFR.

Andrew Sarangan

May 15th 05, 05:14 AM

What a completely useless response to a good question. There are great many
things in Texas, but beer and fishing are not one of them.

Flying into Canada is quite easy. Canada Customs runs a very efficient
system for general aviation. There is a 1-800 number you call prior to
departure, and after landing. Chances are you will never see a customs
officer. The return back into the US is where you have to plan carefully.
You have to get the number for the port of entry you plan to use (numbers
are not published, use AOPA directory), find out their hours of operation,
and give them an accurate ETA.

"Grumman-581" > wrote in
news:uerhe.78802$NU4.52597@attbi_s22:

> "JJS" wrote in message ...
>>I am more comfortable with non-towered airports but have flown
>> under the Dallas - Fort Worth Class B area some
>
> If you're from (or can go to) Texas, why in the world would you want
> to go to Canada????
>
> You'll be hard pressed to find any Lone Star beer up there, only that
> caribou **** that they call beer...
>
> You want an answer from the group and you use x-no-archive? Must not
> really want an answer, I guess...
>
>

Peter Duniho

May 15th 05, 05:22 AM

"Icebound" > wrote in message
...
> I will personally guarantee that you will like the beer. It will forever
> spoil you for that glorified US soda pop.

That depends on the audience. For some reason, there are people in the US
who actually *prefer* "beers" like Miller, Budweiser, etc.

> You will *not* like the price, even in spite of the favourable dollar
> exchange.

You get what you pay for. :)

Pete

Grumman-581

May 15th 05, 06:00 AM

"JJS" wrote in message ...
> I'm from Oklahoma.

OK, that explains why you want to go *somewhere*... <grin>

> Seriously, I want to go catch some big fish.

Have you tried offshore fishing? The Gulf is closer than Canada and as a
plus, you don't have to leave your guns at the border...

> More important than that, I want to get far, far
> away from a very stressful, intense job for several days.

And you've always had this secret desire to freeze your 'nads off, right?
<grin>

> Lone Star reminds me of that Scotch Buy brand beer that Ideal Food
> Stores or Safeway used to sell here locally. My Dad used to buy it
> because it was all he could afford.

That's not the reason to buy Lone Star... You buy it because it is the
NATIONAL beer of Texas... Yeah, it probably tastes like Longhorn ****, but
Budweiser is Clydesdale **** -- so what?

> I took the no-archive out of my sig line. Sorry it offended you so.

The people who use Google Groups for reading USENET thank you...

Grumman-581

May 15th 05, 09:56 AM

"Andrew Sarangan" wrote in message
...
> What a completely useless response to a good question. There are great
many
> things in Texas, but beer and fishing are not one of them.

Not being from Texas, ya' just wouldn't understand...

James Robinson

May 15th 05, 01:55 PM

Grumman-581 wrote:
>
> Have you tried offshore fishing? The Gulf is closer than Canada and as a
> plus, you don't have to leave your guns at the border...

Do you really use your guns for getting fish?

(You also don't have to leave them at the Canadian border, except for
prohibited models, if you do your homework and get a license and
necessary registrations ahead of time. You can also get a "borrow"
permit to use Canadian guns.)

> And you've always had this secret desire to freeze your 'nads off, right?
> <grin>

Should be reasonably warm by the end of June. Anyone going needs to
remember to bring lots of insect repellent. The black flies in Northern
Ontario can be really annoying. "Deep Woods" Off! is particularly
recommended. Lots of DEET.

Icebound

May 15th 05, 06:38 PM

"JJS" <jschneider@remove socks cebridge.net> wrote in message
...
>
> "Icebound" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
....snip...
>>
>> There is *always* a chance of getting weathered in for more than a day or
>> two (VFR), as there is *always* a chance of getting perfectly flyable
>> weather for a week or two. ...snip...
>
> Thanks for the weather info, Icebound.

While on the weather topic....

Before your final legs, try to get to an internet machine and look up:

http://weatheroffice.ec.gc.ca/canada_e.html
especially the radar link at
http://weatheroffice.ec.gc.ca/radar/index_e.html?id=XDR

This is the weather-radar near Dryden, and covers the final leg of your
route.

From the left margin of those pages is the link to "aviation weather" which
will give you free on-line access to the usual gamut of
aviation-weather-briefing materials TAFs, METARs, analysis charts, upper
winds, etc., etc..... which you might want to peruse in addition to your FSS
briefing...

[email protected]

May 15th 05, 06:46 PM

>And you've always had this secret desire to freeze your 'nads off,
right? <grin>

There's a popular TV show here in Canada that gets a lot of laughs
about the ignorance of Americans. I'm sure thay have to talk to a LOT
of Americans to find the material they need to get the laughs, but
there are some hilarious stories about the misconceptions many have
about Canada, Canadians and Canadian weather and topography.
Cold is one of those. In the North the days are very long in
the summer, with the result that there can be vast numbers of huge
insects, hot weather, and people who can grow huge vegetables in their
gardens. So much daylight, see. In the winter it can often be colder
here in southern Alberta (near Montana) than it is 1000 miles north of
here. In the winter in Vancouver and Victoria people are often golfing,
on green grass. Toronto can have wicked winter weather but it's about
as far south as southern Oregon. I grew up In Kamloops, BC, which is
the northern tip of the Sonora Desert, with cactus and sagebrush and
Ponderosa Pine trees and everything. Latitude often has nothing to do
with weather; it's the presence of mountains and water that affects it.
It's very sparsely settled. 80% of Canadians live within 180
miles of the Canada/US border. You want to be prepaped for an
uncomfortable campout if you are forced down. Make sure that ELT is
certified and you have plenty of the right stuff on board, like decent
clothing, food and insect repellent. Bugs can drive people crazy in
short order.
Dan

Grumman-581

May 16th 05, 01:07 AM

"James Robinson" > wrote in message
...
> Do you really use your guns for getting fish?

Well, ya' see, they're kinda needed for TEXAS fish... Maybe ya' don't need
'em for those wimpy little Canuck fish since they're half froze to death
anyway...

Grumman-581

May 16th 05, 01:07 AM

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> There's a popular TV show here in Canada that gets a lot of laughs
> about the ignorance of Americans. I'm sure thay have to talk to a LOT
> of Americans to find the material they need to get the laughs, but
> there are some hilarious stories about the misconceptions many have
> about Canada, Canadians and Canadian weather and topography.

I'm not above perpetuating the stereotypes of Canada just like I do of
Texas... Of course, for the stereotypes to have developed, there must be
some truth in them...

> Cold is one of those. In the North the days are very long in
> the summer, with the result that there can be vast numbers of huge
> insects, hot weather, and people who can grow huge vegetables in their
> gardens. So much daylight, see. In the winter it can often be colder
> here in southern Alberta (near Montana) than it is 1000 miles north of
> here. In the winter in Vancouver and Victoria people are often golfing,
> on green grass. Toronto can have wicked winter weather but it's about
> as far south as southern Oregon. I grew up In Kamloops, BC, which is
> the northern tip of the Sonora Desert, with cactus and sagebrush and
> Ponderosa Pine trees and everything. Latitude often has nothing to do
> with weather; it's the presence of mountains and water that affects it.

Hell, if you're gonna bring *logic* into this conversation, I'm leavin'...
<grin>

[email protected]

May 16th 05, 02:05 AM

I was planning to fly to Gimli on Lake Winnipeg last year, but the trip
fell apart. You need a radio operator's licence and the airplane needs
a radio station licence to fly in Canada. You also need proof of
insurance.

Check out the following website for additional information:
Http://www.copanational.org/non-members/Annual/AreYouLegal.htm

(I grew up about three hours drive from Winnipeg in the beautiful Red
River Valley of North Dakota.)

Kevin Dunlevy

JJS

May 16th 05, 02:06 AM

"private" > wrote in message
news:8Wyhe.1356992$6l.528407@pd7tw2no...
>I can't help you with terrain but
>
> When the local FSS were closed NavCan recognized that the briefers
> in the
> centers may lack the local knowledge that the local FSS had
> provided. A
> project to gather this local knowledge for briefer training lead to
> the
> production of weather manuals for each of the weather regions.
> These
> manuals are available on their website. The general weather chapter
> seems
> to be common to each manual.
>
> for weather manuals
>
> http://www.navcanada.ca
> click english
> under flight operations
> click local weather manuals
>
> for aviation weather
>
> http://www.navcanada.ca
> click english
> under flight operations
> click aviation weather web site
> click route data tab(my favorite) or local data tab
>
> Blue skies to all
>
snip

Bull's-eye!! Anyone interested should go back and read my questions
about local terrain and weather and then check this out. Here's an
example:
Northwestern Ontario is a vast area, much of which lies on the gently
inclining,

rocky and forested terrain of the Canadian Shield. A myriad of lakes
cover the region

and pilots flying it for the first time often find it disorienting,
saying that after a period

of time "it can all start to look the same." Broad sections of the
Shield are also subject

to cloud development under conditions of upslope flow and, while much
of the

terrain is low in elevation, cloud can engulf power lines and
communication towers

perched atop the higher hills making them difficult to see.

A north or northwest flow is upslope across much of this region, and
at Pickle Lake

this is also true for winds out of the west. Winds from these
directions can often generate

broken cloud cover in the absence of larger scale weather systems.
This is frequently

the case in late summer or early winter when prevailing winds begin to
favour

the west or northwest and moisture is still freely available from open
water. In addition,

because of upslope, this region is often slow to clear following the
passage of

frontal systems under a west or northwest flow.

Lake effect convection and precipitation is common to the lee of some
of the larger

lakes where wind direction favours airflow over longer fetches of open
water. This

is most pronounced in the late summer and early winter. Lake effect
convection can

cause marked reduction in local ceilings and visibility, due to
showers. Local reports

of one half mile to one quarter mile visibility in lake effect snow
showers occur relatively

frequently and these conditions can persist over several hours.

Thunderstorms, on average, occur 15 to 20 times per season. They
commonly

develop throughout the summer, peak in frequency during July, and
rarely occur outside

the period between May and September.Widely spaced air mass
thunderstorms

are common, however, more organised lines of thunderstorm activity
often accompany

the passage of cold fronts.

Fog does make an appearance but usually only reduces visibility to
less than half a

mile 2 or 3 times per month. The occurrence of fog is higher in late
summer and early

winter while lakes and rivers remain open and much less frequent after
freeze up.

Radiation fog is the most common, often generating poor visibility
within a few hours

of sunrise, and rarely lasts until the afternoon. Ice fog will
sometimes occur near these

communities in the winter, developing from moisture associated with
chimney smoke

that forms into ice crystals under cold, calm conditions. Aircraft
engine exhaust can

also quickly trigger local ice fog development and temporarily
restrict airport visibility,

until ice crystals gradually settle out.

Blowing snow is not a common occurrence but does occur with greater
frequency

at some of the more exposed sites, like Big Trout Lake.

Based on the above information, I will definitely try and fly the last
leg on a second day in order to be rested. There is a plethora of
applicable information at these links.
Much obliged, Private.

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JJS

May 16th 05, 02:27 AM

"Icebound" > wrote in message
...
>
> "JJS" <jschneider@remove socks cebridge.net> wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Icebound" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
> ...
>>> A lot of the small commercial operations and most of the private
>>> operation in the area is probably done on floats. This is not
>>> just an area of "very few emergency landing sites", it is also
>>> "very few settlements or habitation", especially north of Kenora.
>>>
> ...
>> The trip was planned by other people many months ago. .......
>> Rather than drive the 1381 miles which I've been told takes about
>> 24 hours, I'd much prefer to fly for 10 or 12, and think it would
>> be quite an adventure.
>
> You might want to take the survival-equipment regulations seriously:
>
> http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/Regserv/Affairs/cars/PART6/602.htm#602_61
>
> especially for the 80 nautical miles north of Kenora to Red Lake.
>
> It is *only* 80 miles but you will have to be prepared to be
> intimidated (on wheels) if you haven't flown over
> sparsely-settled-continuous-forest-and-water areas before. Even so,
> although surface settlements are sparse, there ought to be quite a
> bit of traffic (float traffic) along that route, especially in the
> immediate vicinity of Kenora and Red Lake.
>
> And the YRL VOR and RL ndb should help you find the place, if you
> are so equipped :-)
>
> You mentioned that you have the "charts". Do you also have the
> Aerodrome Facilities information (Canadian Flight Supplement)
> http://makeashorterlink.com/?Q1312341B
> You would want the pages for Red Lake, of course, and probably
> Kenora. Maybe a few others "near" the route, Ear Lake, Vermillion
> Bay, etc.
>
> Don't forget that in Canada you *must* file a flight plan with FSS
> (or a flight itinerary with a responsible person who will contact
> FSS), even for Day VFR.
>
I had not ordered the Aerodrome Facilities information yet. I will
do so, ASAP. I'll take the survival regs seriously as well. Thanks
again.

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JJS

May 16th 05, 02:35 AM

Earlier I posted along with other questions:

"I would appreciate any advice on airports and small airplane
friendly FBO's along the 900 + nautical mile route from Woodward,
Ok.(KWWR) - Grand Island, Ne. (KGRI) - Sioux Falls, SD (KFSD) -
Baudette, Mn (KBDE) - Red Lake, Ontario (CYRL).

Due to the trip length we will probably overnight in Baudette or
somewhere near and I would appreciate recommendations concerning
hotel, rental or courtesy car, and eatery accommodations in that
area. AirNav.com's fuel price data is pitifully ancient on many
airports along this route.
If anyone has used Baudette customs coming back into the states,
I would like to hear of your experiences there."

I've had most of my questions answered but, I am still looking for the
group's experience on the above. Any takers?

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private

May 16th 05, 04:24 AM

Glad to be of help. I would recommend these manuals to any student of
weather and would suggest they be required reading for anyone planning a
visit. There are good sections on mountain weather that would be of
interest to anyone flying to Alaska.

I totally agree with other posters that the most important survival
equipment (next to what is between your ears) is insect repellent. I would
also suggest tight weave long sleeve shirts. Often it is sufficient to
apply repellant only to clothing cuffs and collars and to your hat, but make
sure you have lots. Deet is good and many like Avon "skin so soft".

Blue skies to all

"JJS" <jschneider@remove socks cebridge.net> wrote in message
...
>
> "private" > wrote in message
> news:8Wyhe.1356992$6l.528407@pd7tw2no...
snip

Morgans

May 16th 05, 04:45 AM

"private" > wrote

.. I would
> also suggest tight weave long sleeve shirts. Often it is sufficient to
> apply repellant only to clothing cuffs and collars and to your hat, but
make
> sure you have lots. Deet is good and many like Avon "skin so soft".

Long sleeves, no doubt, and a bandanna, or such to cover your neck, and some
cotton gloves. In other words, cover every bit of your skin. A hat with a
skeeter net hanging off it wouldn't hurt. Many of you will say that this is
all overkill, but I can not STAND the buggers walking all over me! I had a
couple episodes with the black flies walking around on my arms, but not
biting, and it almost drove me nuts.

Also, having also spent some time in the Amazon's rain forests, you need
much more than the Deepwoods Off, up north. There is a deet product that
you can get that has much more deet than Off, and works a million times
better. I can't remember right now, but I think it is 20% deet, in a small
bottle.
--
Jim in NC

George Patterson

May 16th 05, 04:59 AM

Morgans wrote:
>
> There is a deet product that
> you can get that has much more deet than Off, and works a million times
> better. I can't remember right now, but I think it is 20% deet, in a small
> bottle.

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=131536

George Patterson
"Naked" means you ain't got no clothes on; "nekkid" means you ain't got
no clothes on - and are up to somethin'.

Happy Dog

May 16th 05, 09:01 AM

> wrote in message

>I was planning to fly to Gimli on Lake Winnipeg last year, but the trip
> fell apart. You need a radio operator's licence and the airplane needs
> a radio station licence to fly in Canada. You also need proof of
> insurance.

Idiot. Did you ask anyone about this sort of trip?

m

Peter Duniho

May 16th 05, 10:53 AM

"Wolfgang Schwanke" > wrote in message
...
> Opinions differ. There are privacy issues involved. Does profiling ring
> a bell?

Privacy issues in a public forum?

Right.

> Would you want e.g. a future employer of yours be able to
> search through years of your usenet history and form an opinion on your
> personality, interests, political leanings etc. based on it?

Why shouldn't they? Inasmuch as a person does express those things
publicly, why should they be concerned that an employer (for example) might
learn about them from that public forum? IMHO, a person who is concerned
someone might get a negative impression ought not to MAKE a negative
impression.

> Including
> all those posts you did while in a bad temper, drunk, or confused?

If those posts occurred often enough that they would actually make up a
significant portion of an employer's impression, then they would be a
legitimate contributor to that impression. And why not? If a person is
constantly in a bad temper, drunk, or confused, an employer would probably
want to know about that.

Again...don't want to make a bad impression? Then don't make a bad
impression.

> Of
> course you could stop posting at all, but that's no fun. x-no-archive
> is a good way out of this dilemma.

I'm not ready to say there is simply no justification for x-no-archive.
There may well be one that I don't see right now.

But as far as the "I don't want people to judge me" aspect, that's just BS.
First of all, you can always post anonymously. Secondly, if a person isn't
willing to live with their public behavior, they need to rethink their
public behavior. Telling the rest of the public to "just ignore what I
said" is a pretty cowardly way out, showing a lack of good character.

Frankly, if I were an employer checking Usenet as part of a job interview or
review or whatever (and I'd have to be an employer with a LOT of time on my
hands to justify that...the idea that an employer might do this seems, in
and of itself, pretty paranoid to me), if I saw a person who was using
x-no-archive, I'd just form my opinion based on the two or three weeks
available on my ISP (or Google, or whatever). Furthermore, the use of
x-no-archive would reflect poorly on the person. On top of all of that,
what if those two or three weeks just happen to be the weeks that person was
having trouble (bad temper, drunk, confused, whatever)? They've just shot
themselves in the foot, because there's no history beyond that to
counter-act the recent poor behavior.

If you don't want to be profiled, you need to stay off Usenet completely.
There's always SOME context for someone to profile you, if you are posting
here.

> I don't think other people have any
> right to complain. All posters should have absolute control on what
> gets archived about them, and their decision is no business of others.

Baloney. For those that are concerned, I suppose it's nice that Google (and
other archives?) respect the x-no-archive field. But there's nothing
forcing anyone to respect that field, and no person who posts something to a
public forum like Usenet has any right or expectation that their post won't
live on forever in someone's archive.

You got one thing right: there's no "decision" per se, so no..."their
decision" isn't any business of others, being non-existent. You can't
"decide" for someone else what they will do.

>> The USENET
>> archives are great search tools and the x-archive crap attempts to
> defeat
>> that...
>
> If the OP hadn't posted at all, it also wouldn't be archived. So what
> is lost?

As far as I know, the scenarios being discussed here are using x-no-archive
and not using x-no-archive. How does the "hadn't posted at all" come into
play? The OP had a question...they would have had a pretty tough time
getting it answered here without posting it.

> The answers (of those who don't x-no-archive) will be
> searchable anyway.

The answers may not make a lot of sense without the original post.

Now, granted, Usenet users are almost all clueless about proper etiquette
anyway and insist on quoting the previous post in its entirety (usually
top-posting too). But a) one probably shouldn't count on it, and b) that
behavior completely negates the x-no-archive field anyway.

However you look at it, x-no-archive just makes no sense, not for the idea
of protecting one's reputation or anything like that. I can't see getting
my shorts in a twist over someone using it, but neither can I see any
serious argument for a person using it as a standard practice while posting
to Usenet.

Pete

Peter Duniho

May 16th 05, 11:03 AM

"Happy Dog" > wrote in message
...
> Idiot. Did you ask anyone about this sort of trip?

What makes him an idiot? For that matter, what gives you the right to sit
in judgment regarding whether he's an idiot or not?

Wolfgang: see? All you have to do is post using a fake name...no need to
use x-no-archive. You can behave as badly as you like, all you want,
without fear of someone attributing it to you. No one ever has to know it's
you being such a jerk.

Pete

Peter Duniho

May 16th 05, 11:36 AM

"Wolfgang Schwanke" > wrote in message
...
> Just being able to access data about someone means power.

Really? Just like that? I guess an employee should never go out in public
then. You never know who might see them DO something. Their employer could
find out, and then they would have POWER!

Forgive me if I don't share your paranoia.

> [...]
> But maybe not a justified one, and not one they have a right to make.
> The employer just want to buy the employee's work, not marry him/her.
> So they should get information that enables them to judge the person's
> work quality, but none about their private life. If that can be
> avoided, why not do it?

Why not just tell an employer they aren't allowed to use that data, if you
think it's such a bad idea.

But beyond that, it's simply not true that an employer has no interest in
anything other than "the employee's work". In most cases, the employee will
need to work with others. Especially given that an employer can be sued for
the behavior of one employee toward another, the employer has every right
and justification to learn about an employee's personality, in addition to
their ability to do their work.

Frankly, I don't think that many people -- employers or otherwise -- are
going around using Usenet archives for profiling. But even if they are, so
what? Assuming they understand the limitations of the medium, the
information is public and freely available and they have every right to use
it. Even if they don't understand the limitations, that's their
problem...the information they think they've obtained will be inaccurate,
but it's their prerogative to use inaccurate information if they want.

>> Again...don't want to make a bad impression? Then don't make a bad
>> impression.
>
> Nobody can be perfect all of the time.

So what? Everyone I know KNOWS that nobody can be perfect all of the time,
and people who are imperfect only once in awhile aren't judged for that.
It's only the person who is imperfect ALL of the time who needs to worry,
and frankly the rest of world has a right to know about people who are
imperfect ALL of the time.

> Every person has a right to control where their stuff gets archived.

No, actually they don't. If I wanted to archive everything I saw on
rec.aviation.piloting, for example, I may. I have no legal requirement to
respect the x-no-archive field, nor any other indication from someone they
don't want their post archived.

> That's justification enough. The employer example is not a
> justification, I just made it to illustrate how privacy is important in
> real life.

Privacy doesn't apply to a public forum. It's PUBLIC. By definition,
PUBLIC is not PRIVATE.

> And why can't I x-no-archive if it works for me? Whose business is that
> other than mine?

I never said you couldn't. I just said doing so was silly. As far as whose
business it is, it's the business of everyone with whom you interact in the
PUBLIC forum. As participants in Usenet, we have a social contract made of
written and unwritten guidelines, and inasmuch as anyone does something on
Usenet that affects anyone else, it's everyone's business.

> [...]
> It's called "data protection". Control about your personal data is a
> constitutional right here in Germany.

A post you make to Usenet isn't "personal data". Your birthdate, phone
number, credit rating, educational history, those kinds of things are
"personal data". A post to Usenet is a public statement.

> Makes sense doesn't it?

Protecting personal data makes sense. A post to Usenet isn't personal data.

> If you
> Americans think more loosely about that subject and have no problems to
> hand power to those who have power already, have fun. But not everyone
> shares your views, and why should they?

Well, a) I seriously doubt that Germany protects a person's right to not
have their Usenet posts archived, but b) even if they did, if and when
Germany rules the world, I suppose they can impose that rule on the rest of
us. Until then, a single nation's laws aren't relevant to Usenet,
especially if they do something silly like trying to restrict the free flow
of public information.

> We all know that but that is not the issue. The power of that tool is
> limited, but why not use it? Why should an outsider complain if someone
> uses it?

Why shouldn't they? It's a free world. Just as a person can try to argue
that their posts shouldn't be archived if they don't want them, another
person can complain about them trying to accomplish that.

No one is obliged to answer a post on Usenet, and if they choose to reject
posts with x-no-archive for consideration of a reply, it's their right to do
so.

Pete

Peter Duniho

May 16th 05, 11:39 AM

"Wolfgang Schwanke" > wrote in message
...
> Many people see using fake names as a worse breach of netiquette than
> x-no- archive (which most see as none).

So? If you're going to breach etiquette, who cares how you do it?

> I don't agree with those people,

So anonymous posting is fine with you. Okay.

> I think either should be allowed and is no business of others.

So why would someone use x-no-archive? It's entirely unreliable, while
posting anonymously is entirely reliable (assuming you don't do something
that will invoke a right to a subpoena, of course).

If you are concerned about profiling, anonymous posting is the only way to
go.

> Abuse is never acceptable of course.

Of course. Don't see what that has to do with the question of x-no-archive
though.

Pete

James Robinson

May 16th 05, 12:06 PM

Morgans wrote:
>
> Also, having also spent some time in the Amazon's rain forests, you need
> much more than the Deepwoods Off, up north. There is a deet product that
> you can get that has much more deet than Off, and works a million times
> better. I can't remember right now, but I think it is 20% deet, in a small
> bottle.

You are probably thinking of the regular Off! products.

Deep Woods Off! contains typically 25 to 30% DEET, and is available in
concentrations up to 100% DEET. The most useful products are about 25
to 30%, such as their Sportsman sprays and lotions. Higher
concentrations can cause skin irritation, and in some people, allergic
reactions.

The lower concentrations often have ingredients that prolong the
effectiveness of the chemical. In most cases, the 25-30 percent
formulations will provide protection for something like 6 hours.

http://www.offprotects.com/sportsman.asp

Not to say that OFF! is the only product available, just that it is easy
to find almost everywhere.

Here is a discussion of protection against insects that might be
informative.

http://www.henryfordhealth.org/115027.cfm

For those not familiar with DEET, be aware that it is a good paint
remover, and will soften plastics. Therefore, don't apply concentrated
amounts to automotive finishes, synthetic clothing like Spandex, watch
crystals, and eyeglass or sunglass frames.