HYPOXIA

[Waveguru]

This is in response to the paraglider missing thread. Many pilots all over the world underestimate the effects of hypoxia and think that they are the exception to the rules. This ferry pilot certainly did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt2TGjuwv_s&lc=UgykUSC5mqg8AzvrF2t4AaABAg.9GkCfA1H1bj9GlVqnzog Hl

You really have no idea how effected you are. That is one of the reasons it is so dangerous.

Boggs

[AS]

On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 4:23:10 PM UTC-8, Waveguru wrote:
> This is in response to the paraglider missing thread. Many pilots all over the world underestimate the effects of hypoxia and think that they are the exception to the rules. This ferry pilot certainly did.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt2TGjuwv_s&lc=UgykUSC5mqg8AzvrF2t4AaABAg.9GkCfA1H1bj9GlVqnzog Hl
>
> You really have no idea how effected you are. That is one of the reasons it is so dangerous.
>
> Boggs

Before I started wave-flying over the Appalachians in PA and VW, I took a high altitude chamber ride at the Wright-Patterson AFB in OH. It was a true eye-opener. After a few minutes off O2 at 25,000ft, they had us work on a task sheet with all kinds of stupid stuff on it: 81-3, -3, -3 etc. dEciPherAtextTHatWaswrITTenLiKEThis, find your way out of a maze; simple stuff, piece of cake! The supervisor on the outside called me on my head-set and asked me, how many thumbs I had: 10, of course - and why are these jack-a$$es behind that big window laughing at me?
Let me tell you, my work sheet would have been worth framing! The column of 81-3s was correct for the first few calculations, then my numbers got bigger again and even started to grow decimals! The text I deciphered was in some language - none of which I was familiar with - and I know a few of them! My way out of the maze was a straight line from the center to the exit - screw those walls! All this was done with full recollection and being convinced, that the round peg would go into that square hole, if they just had made that square a wee-bit larger!
We all got a good laugh out of looking at each other's work sheets after we were back 'on the ground'. The others in the chamber didn't fare much better than I did but the big take-away is this: if you think you are immune to hypoxia, you are full of it! Hypoxia is a silent killer; it creeps up on you and lets you make one bad decision after the other, all the while you are convinced that you got it under control - well, you don't!
O2 is cheap insurance and the MH-systems have reached an unprecedented level of accuracy and reliability.
If you have a chance to take a high altitude chamber ride, do it. I think the one at Wright Pat is no longer in operation, so if anyone knows where one is that is accessible to civilians, chime in.

Uli
'AS'

[Gregg Ballou[_2_]]

On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 8:55:45 PM UTC-5, AS wrote:
> On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 4:23:10 PM UTC-8, Waveguru wrote:
> > This is in response to the paraglider missing thread. Many pilots all over the world underestimate the effects of hypoxia and think that they are the exception to the rules. This ferry pilot certainly did.
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt2TGjuwv_s&lc=UgykUSC5mqg8AzvrF2t4AaABAg.9GkCfA1H1bj9GlVqnzog Hl
> >
> > You really have no idea how effected you are. That is one of the reasons it is so dangerous.
> >
> > Boggs
> Before I started wave-flying over the Appalachians in PA and VW, I took a high altitude chamber ride at the Wright-Patterson AFB in OH. It was a true eye-opener. After a few minutes off O2 at 25,000ft, they had us work on a task sheet with all kinds of stupid stuff on it: 81-3, -3, -3 etc. dEciPherAtextTHatWaswrITTenLiKEThis, find your way out of a maze; simple stuff, piece of cake! The supervisor on the outside called me on my head-set and asked me, how many thumbs I had: 10, of course - and why are these jack-a$$es behind that big window laughing at me?
> Let me tell you, my work sheet would have been worth framing! The column of 81-3s was correct for the first few calculations, then my numbers got bigger again and even started to grow decimals! The text I deciphered was in some language - none of which I was familiar with - and I know a few of them! My way out of the maze was a straight line from the center to the exit - screw those walls! All this was done with full recollection and being convinced, that the round peg would go into that square hole, if they just had made that square a wee-bit larger!
> We all got a good laugh out of looking at each other's work sheets after we were back 'on the ground'. The others in the chamber didn't fare much better than I did but the big take-away is this: if you think you are immune to hypoxia, you are full of it! Hypoxia is a silent killer; it creeps up on you and lets you make one bad decision after the other, all the while you are convinced that you got it under control - well, you don't!
> O2 is cheap insurance and the MH-systems have reached an unprecedented level of accuracy and reliability.
> If you have a chance to take a high altitude chamber ride, do it. I think the one at Wright Pat is no longer in operation, so if anyone knows where one is that is accessible to civilians, chime in.
>
> Uli
> 'AS'
There is/was a traveling one. I believe it diluted the oxygen percentage instead of reducing pressure. You need a current medical to take a turn and last I heard basic med did not count. I doubt it is in operation during 'rona times.

[[email protected]]

Le vendredi 11 décembre 2020 Ã* 01:23:10 UTC+1, Waveguru a écritÂ*:
> Many pilots all over the world underestimate the effects of hypoxia and think that they are the exception to the rules.... omissis...
> You really have no idea how effected you are. That is one of the reasons it is so dangerous.
> Boggs

I'm really amazed that some pilots still question the consequences of hypoxia, even, and above all, the mild one. Everything has been studied and described, in particular in chapter 12 of the book “Dancing With the Wind� (on sale in the USA at Cumulus Soaring and Wings & Wheels), subject of a conference at the SSA Convention in Reno in 2018 (downloadable 1) then in an article published in Soaring USA in August 2018 written by the famous Dr. Daniel Johnson in collaboration with Patrick McLaughlin (Mountain High), Dr. Heini Schaffner and myself (downloadable here). And other dangers much more devious and undetectable in the short term seem to be confirmed, according to Dr. Linda Ravetti (USA): prolonged mild hypoxia, that which pilots undergo while spending hours around 10,000 - 13,000 ft without oxygen, would be an aggravating factor in the appearance of Alzheimer's disease. But that, you will not know until 20 years later!
Now, you can't say you didn't know that.
Take care!
1= http://topfly.free.fr/2018_OXY SSA_OSTIV.pdf
2= https://topfly-aero.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/SOARING-2018-08-Hypoxia-Article-proof.pdf

[[email protected]]

Hi, There is a typo in link 1.
Please read
http://topfly.free.fr/2018_OXY_SSA_OSTIV.pdf
Season greetings!

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

wrote on 12/11/2020 2:36 AM:
> Le vendredi 11 décembre 2020 à 01:23:10 UTC+1, Waveguru a écrit*:
>> Many pilots all over the world underestimate the effects of hypoxia and think that they are the exception to the rules.... omissis...
>> You really have no idea how effected you are. That is one of the reasons it is so dangerous.
>> Boggs
>
> I'm really amazed that some pilots still question the consequences of hypoxia, even, and above all, the mild one. Everything has been studied and described, in particular in chapter 12 of the book “Dancing With the Wind” (on sale in the USA at Cumulus Soaring and Wings & Wheels), subject of a conference at the SSA Convention in Reno in 2018 (downloadable 1) then in an article published in Soaring USA in August 2018 written by the famous Dr. Daniel Johnson in collaboration with Patrick McLaughlin (Mountain High), Dr. Heini Schaffner and myself (downloadable here). And other dangers much more devious and undetectable in the short term seem to be confirmed, according to Dr. Linda Ravetti (USA): prolonged mild hypoxia, that which pilots undergo while spending hours around 10,000 - 13,000 ft without oxygen, would be an aggravating factor in the appearance of Alzheimer's disease. But that, you will not know until 20 years later!
> Now, you can't say you didn't know that.
> Take care!
> 1= http://topfly.free.fr/2018_OXY SSA_OSTIV.pdf
> 2= https://topfly-aero.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/SOARING-2018-08-Hypoxia-Article-proof.pdf
>
For me, the advent of low cost oximeters was the wake-up call. Before then, I followed the FAA
requirements, typically turning on the oxygen at 12,000'; after I got one (20 years ago?), I
realized I need to turn the oxygen on at 10,000'. A few years ago, I noticed Cheynes-Stokes
breathing beginning above 8000', so 8000' is now when I turn it on.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1

[John Godfrey]

On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 8:55:45 PM UTC-5, AS wrote:
> On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 4:23:10 PM UTC-8, Waveguru wrote:
> > This is in response to the paraglider missing thread. Many pilots all over the world underestimate the effects of hypoxia and think that they are the exception to the rules. This ferry pilot certainly did.
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt2TGjuwv_s&lc=UgykUSC5mqg8AzvrF2t4AaABAg.9GkCfA1H1bj9GlVqnzog Hl
> >
> > You really have no idea how effected you are. That is one of the reasons it is so dangerous.
> >
> > Boggs
> Before I started wave-flying over the Appalachians in PA and VW, I took a high altitude chamber ride at the Wright-Patterson AFB in OH. It was a true eye-opener. After a few minutes off O2 at 25,000ft, they had us work on a task sheet with all kinds of stupid stuff on it: 81-3, -3, -3 etc. dEciPherAtextTHatWaswrITTenLiKEThis, find your way out of a maze; simple stuff, piece of cake! The supervisor on the outside called me on my head-set and asked me, how many thumbs I had: 10, of course - and why are these jack-a$$es behind that big window laughing at me?
> Let me tell you, my work sheet would have been worth framing! The column of 81-3s was correct for the first few calculations, then my numbers got bigger again and even started to grow decimals! The text I deciphered was in some language - none of which I was familiar with - and I know a few of them! My way out of the maze was a straight line from the center to the exit - screw those walls! All this was done with full recollection and being convinced, that the round peg would go into that square hole, if they just had made that square a wee-bit larger!
> We all got a good laugh out of looking at each other's work sheets after we were back 'on the ground'. The others in the chamber didn't fare much better than I did but the big take-away is this: if you think you are immune to hypoxia, you are full of it! Hypoxia is a silent killer; it creeps up on you and lets you make one bad decision after the other, all the while you are convinced that you got it under control - well, you don't!
> O2 is cheap insurance and the MH-systems have reached an unprecedented level of accuracy and reliability.
> If you have a chance to take a high altitude chamber ride, do it. I think the one at Wright Pat is no longer in operation, so if anyone knows where one is that is accessible to civilians, chime in.
>
> Uli
> 'AS'
Uli, I remeber being there with you. One thing that sticks with me was the change in vision when the O2 was restored. COLORS came back.
For the low price of oximeters these days, we should all carry one an monitor our personal response to altitude.
FWIW

[Nicholas Kennedy]

When I Started flying Hang Gliders here in Telluride and Central Colorado and the Owens Valley I made dozens and dozens of trips up into the low 20's without O2. I also look back and found my self in the landing zone not remembering much on how I got there!
Then in the early 80's a guy by the name of Terry Reynolds put together a batch of nice Hang Gliding friendly O2 systems. Large Kevlar bottles, stainless steel flex lines, regulators. I bought one at our Hang Gliding Festival. I took off and I got up over 18 and remembered I had it; I turned it on and in a few minutes I went from a black and white world to one with color!
Blue Skys, green hills.
O2 is cheap and I'm now with Eric Grennwell. I go on 02 in my glider very low and if I'm cruising at 17+ every hour I turn it up high and do some deep breathing. Also coming into land I turn it up high for a few minutes. You wanna be sharp for the landing.
Nick
T

[Mark Mocho]

I started selling Nelson O2 systems in 1991 for hang gliding. Patrick McLaughlin of Mountain High asked if he could sell them also, and I told Jerry Nelson I didn't have a problem with it at all. Safety is safety, and the more sources for the equipment, the better. Mountain High eventually bought the Nelson line of regulators and flowmeters, and went on to develop and patent the Electronic Demand System (EDS) with altitude compensated pulse delivery. To me, it is the single greatest advance in oxygen delivery systems. I have used one in hang gliders and now sailplanes ever since they became available, and have been a dealer since the 90's. Now, at age 67, I set the delivery altitude at 5,000 ft. so I am on O2 even on takeoff. (Moriarty field elevation is 6,200 MSL.) As they say, "Don't leave home without it!"

[John Sinclair[_5_]]

On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 4:23:10 PM UTC-8, Waveguru wrote:
> This is in response to the paraglider missing thread. Many pilots all over the world underestimate the effects of hypoxia and think that they are the exception to the rules. This ferry pilot certainly did.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt2TGjuwv_s&lc=UgykUSC5mqg8AzvrF2t4AaABAg.9GkCfA1H1bj9GlVqnzog Hl
>
> You really have no idea how effected you are. That is one of the reasons it is so dangerous.
>
> Boggs

I have been through the altitude chamber a half dozen times, but I didn’t know my symptoms of long term oxygen deprivation until I got hypoxic on a long flight out in the same area the paraglider went down. I was on a 1000K flight and had turned Seregoda mine in the Owens Valley and was near my second turnpoint of Eureka, Nv. I was thermalling near18000 feet when suddenly, I was unable to maintain pitch control !!! Kinda like a PIO ....I was pulling when I should be pushing!
I had been experiencing a mild headache a mild stomachache for hours.........turned the oxygen knob up until the little ball was just dancing off the top of the flow meter and I was instantly able to regain pitch control. Ah ha moment, for me...........headache and stomachache are my hypoxia indicators!
On the ground, I found one of the little bladders in my cannula was ruptured and I had only been getting half the oxygen I needed.
My wife is on occasional oxygen now days after she lost one lobe in her left lung to cancer ..........her long term hypoxia symptoms are the same as mine........headache and stomachache!
JJ

[BobW]

> When I Started flying Hang Gliders here in Telluride and Central Colorado
> and the Owens Valley I made dozens and dozens of trips up into the low 20's
> without O2. I also look back and found my self in the landing zone not
> remembering much on how I got there!...

This is the sort of thread that can shed a whole lotta insight into such
things as: info/knowledge diffusion/comprehension rates throughout targeted
special-interest populations (hang-glider/sailplane types); hypoxic realities;
etc.

All hypoxia-related stories are the same, but different!

I musta had sufficient imagination & curiosity to both seek out info on the
topic and believe what I read, even before availing myself of the opportunity
of a chamber ride back in the '80s. (For the record, I - then, anyway - was
one of those people who essentially lacked "any obvious symptoms" [arguably,
the most at-risk kind?] other than "the usual mental degradations"...no blue
fingernails, no giddiness, no "B&W vision symptoms"...just mental
dullness/sloppy-handwriting/etc/) By then I owned a ship w. an O2 system...and
after then, I *believed* (!!!).

Ever-after, part of me was amazed/appalled whenever encountering someone
ignorant-of/unbelieving of altitude-related hypoxia (think: any Himalayan
mountain climbing tale). Flying from Boulder, CO (at the eastern base of the
Rockies), it wasn't uncommon for "a hang glider type" to either stop by the
field for a chit-chat, or occasionally land there from a cross-Divide flight.

One in particular sticks with me. After relating my amazement to having
encountered a hang glider near 18,000' on one bitterly cold March day above
the Williams Fork Range and asking him how he dealt with such wind chill, he
related a flight to that altitude that all he remembered anything about was
the takeoff and subsequent post-landing landing somewhere he knew not where,
miles from his launch site..."coming to" long after he'd landed. He put it
down to "the cold"; I noted he might want to do some research about hypoxia!

Cowabunga!!!

Bob W.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

[Jim Kellett]

On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 9:57:45 PM UTC-5, Gregg Ballou wrote:
> On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 8:55:45 PM UTC-5, AS wrote:

> > If you have a chance to take a high altitude chamber ride, do it. I think the one at Wright Pat is no longer in operation, so if anyone knows where one is that is accessible to civilians, chime in.

AMEN!! I was lucky back in the dark ages to have had that experience in a chamber at Andrews AFB when it was open to civilians, and I had a very similar experience with the worksheets!! Sure made a believer out of me! IF you EVER get a chance for that experience, for heaven's sake take it!!
I don' t "fly high" any more, but I still take my oximeter with me and if it drops below ca. 95%, I just come down . .

[AS]

On Friday, December 11, 2020 at 5:54:28 AM UTC-8, wrote:

> Uli, I remeber being there with you. One thing that sticks with me was the change in vision when the O2 was restored. COLORS came back.
> For the low price of oximeters these days, we should all carry one an monitor our personal response to altitude.
> FWIW

>> ... was the change in vision when the O2 was restored. COLORS came back. <<
Yes John, you are right! It felt like staring into a bright light after being in the dark.
In a nutshell: the CPU between your ears starts slowing down and provide faulty results! Use O2 early and plenty.

Uli
'AS'

[George Haeh]

My current glider came without an oxygen bottle. Before the new bottle arrived with the Canadian regs allowing half an hour between 10,000 and 12,500. I spent a considerable amount of that legal (if not smart) half hour trying to figure out which hand on the altimeter was what.

Before the MH, I took an Aerox up to 18,000 and believe I was conscientious in adjusting the flow. But I grounded myself for two days afterwards as I was wiped out after landing.

Higher up I treat the pulse oxymeter as a primary instrument, followed by the VNE placard.

[Dan Marotta]

On 12/10/20 6:55 PM, AS wrote:
> On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 4:23:10 PM UTC-8, Waveguru wrote:
>> This is in response to the paraglider missing thread. Many pilots all over the world underestimate the effects of hypoxia and think that they are the exception to the rules. This ferry pilot certainly did.
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt2TGjuwv_s&lc=UgykUSC5mqg8AzvrF2t4AaABAg.9GkCfA1H1bj9GlVqnzog Hl
>>
>> You really have no idea how effected you are. That is one of the reasons it is so dangerous.
>>
>> Boggs
>
> Before I started wave-flying over the Appalachians in PA and VW, I took a high altitude chamber ride at the Wright-Patterson AFB in OH. It was a true eye-opener. After a few minutes off O2 at 25,000ft, they had us work on a task sheet with all kinds of stupid stuff on it: 81-3, -3, -3 etc. dEciPherAtextTHatWaswrITTenLiKEThis, find your way out of a maze; simple stuff, piece of cake! The supervisor on the outside called me on my head-set and asked me, how many thumbs I had: 10, of course - and why are these jack-a$$es behind that big window laughing at me?
> Let me tell you, my work sheet would have been worth framing! The column of 81-3s was correct for the first few calculations, then my numbers got bigger again and even started to grow decimals! The text I deciphered was in some language - none of which I was familiar with - and I know a few of them! My way out of the maze was a straight line from the center to the exit - screw those walls! All this was done with full recollection and being convinced, that the round peg would go into that square hole, if they just had made that square a wee-bit larger!
> We all got a good laugh out of looking at each other's work sheets after we were back 'on the ground'. The others in the chamber didn't fare much better than I did but the big take-away is this: if you think you are immune to hypoxia, you are full of it! Hypoxia is a silent killer; it creeps up on you and lets you make one bad decision after the other, all the while you are convinced that you got it under control - well, you don't!
> O2 is cheap insurance and the MH-systems have reached an unprecedented level of accuracy and reliability.
> If you have a chance to take a high altitude chamber ride, do it. I think the one at Wright Pat is no longer in operation, so if anyone knows where one is that is accessible to civilians, chime in.
>
> Uli
> 'AS'
>

Well put, Uli.

I remember my two chamber rides while an AF pilot. Like you, I was
certain that it was no big thing until reviewing my performance post flight.

Recently my wife and I made a flight in our Cessna into a mountainous
wilderness area. After cruising for 30 minutes or so at 10,500' we came
over the valley where the VLA (Very Large Array radio telescope) is
located. I descended to 8,500' for the 40-50 mile length of the valley,
climbed over the last mountain, and landed for a picnic at the Negrito
airstrip (0NM7) in the Gila Wilderness.

On the way over I was thinking how easily I could remove the O2 tank and
MH regulator from the Stemme and secure it in the back seat of the C-180.

--
Dan
5J

[AS]

On Friday, December 11, 2020 at 11:09:16 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:

> Well put, Uli.
>
> I remember my two chamber rides while an AF pilot. Like you, I was
> certain that it was no big thing until reviewing my performance post flight.
>
> Recently my wife and I made a flight in our Cessna into a mountainous
> wilderness area. After cruising for 30 minutes or so at 10,500' we came
> over the valley where the VLA (Very Large Array radio telescope) is
> located. I descended to 8,500' for the 40-50 mile length of the valley,
> climbed over the last mountain, and landed for a picnic at the Negrito
> airstrip (0NM7) in the Gila Wilderness.
>
> On the way over I was thinking how easily I could remove the O2 tank and
> MH regulator from the Stemme and secure it in the back seat of the C-180.
>
> --
> Dan
> 5J

Hi Dan - my MH system came with a harness that is used to secure an O2 cylinder to the back of an airplane seat. The O2 cylinder in my Calif is where it belongs and I most likely will not use said harness. I'll bring it to Moriarty in June '21, if you want it.

Uli
'AS'

[Dan Marotta]

On 12/11/20 12:48 PM, AS wrote:
> On Friday, December 11, 2020 at 11:09:16 AM UTC-8, Dan Marotta wrote:
>
>> Well put, Uli.
>>
>> I remember my two chamber rides while an AF pilot. Like you, I was
>> certain that it was no big thing until reviewing my performance post flight.
>>
>> Recently my wife and I made a flight in our Cessna into a mountainous
>> wilderness area. After cruising for 30 minutes or so at 10,500' we came
>> over the valley where the VLA (Very Large Array radio telescope) is
>> located. I descended to 8,500' for the 40-50 mile length of the valley,
>> climbed over the last mountain, and landed for a picnic at the Negrito
>> airstrip (0NM7) in the Gila Wilderness.
>>
>> On the way over I was thinking how easily I could remove the O2 tank and
>> MH regulator from the Stemme and secure it in the back seat of the C-180.
>>
>> --
>> Dan
>> 5J
>
> Hi Dan - my MH system came with a harness that is used to secure an O2 cylinder to the back of an airplane seat. The O2 cylinder in my Calif is where it belongs and I most likely will not use said harness. I'll bring it to Moriarty in June '21, if you want it.
>
> Uli
> 'AS'
>

Yes, thanks!

--
Dan
5J

[John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net]

Being a flat lander I start my Mountain High EDS unit at 5,000msl which is usually below field elevation out west. I just sent my O2D1 unit and regulator to MH for its bi-annual winter checkup and refurb. Cheap insurance for a critical flight system IMHO.

Did you know that these units alarm if there is no O2 flow (you stop breathing or the tank is empty). You should get one.

Soooooo, did you know that MH sells refurbished (1st generation) O2D1 and O2D2 units at about 1/3 off of the price of a 2nd generation* new unit? There are even some of the original D1A units that come up for sale at almost 60% off of new. I don't believe that MH sells refurb units to make ends meet. I think they do this as a company policy to save pilot's lives. You should get one. My $0.02.

See https://www.mhoxygen.com/350-eds-closeout/

Enjoy,
John OHM

* Anyone know what the difference is between the 1st and 2nd generation units besides the layout of the controls and more colorful graphics? Thanks.

[Eric Greenwell[_4_]]

John DeRosa OHM Ω http://aviation.derosaweb.net wrote on 12/12/2020 7:46 PM:
> Soooooo, did you know that MH sells refurbished (1st generation) O2D1 and O2D2 units at about 1/3 off of the price of a 2nd generation* new unit? There are even some of the original D1A units that come up for sale at almost 60% off of new. I don't believe that MH sells refurb units to make ends meet. I think they do this as a company policy to save pilot's lives. You should get one. My $0.02.
>
> See https://www.mhoxygen.com/350-eds-closeout/

Be careful about buying a D1A unit, as I was told by MH in February that they have some minor
spares for them, so they can replace some seals, but likely can not repair a broken one. I
decided to give my still working, but 20 year old, D!A away, rather than have it refurbished.
The newer ones - O2D1, etc - are much nicer units, and the refurbished units seem reasonably
priced.
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorgliders/publications/download-the-guide-1

[Mike the Strike]

On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 6:55:45 PM UTC-7, AS wrote:
> On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 4:23:10 PM UTC-8, Waveguru wrote:
> > This is in response to the paraglider missing thread. Many pilots all over the world underestimate the effects of hypoxia and think that they are the exception to the rules. This ferry pilot certainly did.
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt2TGjuwv_s&lc=UgykUSC5mqg8AzvrF2t4AaABAg.9GkCfA1H1bj9GlVqnzog Hl
> >
> > You really have no idea how effected you are. That is one of the reasons it is so dangerous.
> >
> > Boggs
> Before I started wave-flying over the Appalachians in PA and VW, I took a high altitude chamber ride at the Wright-Patterson AFB in OH. It was a true eye-opener. After a few minutes off O2 at 25,000ft, they had us work on a task sheet with all kinds of stupid stuff on it: 81-3, -3, -3 etc. dEciPherAtextTHatWaswrITTenLiKEThis, find your way out of a maze; simple stuff, piece of cake! The supervisor on the outside called me on my head-set and asked me, how many thumbs I had: 10, of course - and why are these jack-a$$es behind that big window laughing at me?
> Let me tell you, my work sheet would have been worth framing! The column of 81-3s was correct for the first few calculations, then my numbers got bigger again and even started to grow decimals! The text I deciphered was in some language - none of which I was familiar with - and I know a few of them! My way out of the maze was a straight line from the center to the exit - screw those walls! All this was done with full recollection and being convinced, that the round peg would go into that square hole, if they just had made that square a wee-bit larger!
> We all got a good laugh out of looking at each other's work sheets after we were back 'on the ground'. The others in the chamber didn't fare much better than I did but the big take-away is this: if you think you are immune to hypoxia, you are full of it! Hypoxia is a silent killer; it creeps up on you and lets you make one bad decision after the other, all the while you are convinced that you got it under control - well, you don't!
> O2 is cheap insurance and the MH-systems have reached an unprecedented level of accuracy and reliability.
> If you have a chance to take a high altitude chamber ride, do it. I think the one at Wright Pat is no longer in operation, so if anyone knows where one is that is accessible to civilians, chime in.
>
> Uli
> 'AS'

A couple of years ago, I suffered a deep-vein thrombosis (blood clot) in my left leg while on a cross-country flight in southern Arizona. I had been flying for around an hour between 8,000 and 10,000 feet. It was a hot May day and I was somewhat dehydrated. I was lucky the clot stayed where it was and didn't result in worse problems.

My doctor discovered that I had a genetic condition that predisposed me to blood clots, but he also said that strong contributory factors were positional immobility, dehydration and depleted blood oxygen levels. Up to that time, I had set my oxygen to start at 10,000 feet (typically it would start about 9,600). At altitudes of 8,000 to 10,000 feet, I would have had some hypoxia. So I discovered another medical condition that can be exacerbated by hypoxia. I could have bought a lot of oxygen for my medical bills!

Mike

[2G]

On Tuesday, December 15, 2020 at 1:37:09 PM UTC-8, Mike the Strike wrote:
> On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 6:55:45 PM UTC-7, AS wrote:
> > On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 4:23:10 PM UTC-8, Waveguru wrote:
> > > This is in response to the paraglider missing thread. Many pilots all over the world underestimate the effects of hypoxia and think that they are the exception to the rules. This ferry pilot certainly did.
> > >
> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt2TGjuwv_s&lc=UgykUSC5mqg8AzvrF2t4AaABAg.9GkCfA1H1bj9GlVqnzog Hl
> > >
> > > You really have no idea how effected you are. That is one of the reasons it is so dangerous.
> > >
> > > Boggs
> > Before I started wave-flying over the Appalachians in PA and VW, I took a high altitude chamber ride at the Wright-Patterson AFB in OH. It was a true eye-opener. After a few minutes off O2 at 25,000ft, they had us work on a task sheet with all kinds of stupid stuff on it: 81-3, -3, -3 etc. dEciPherAtextTHatWaswrITTenLiKEThis, find your way out of a maze; simple stuff, piece of cake! The supervisor on the outside called me on my head-set and asked me, how many thumbs I had: 10, of course - and why are these jack-a$$es behind that big window laughing at me?
> > Let me tell you, my work sheet would have been worth framing! The column of 81-3s was correct for the first few calculations, then my numbers got bigger again and even started to grow decimals! The text I deciphered was in some language - none of which I was familiar with - and I know a few of them! My way out of the maze was a straight line from the center to the exit - screw those walls! All this was done with full recollection and being convinced, that the round peg would go into that square hole, if they just had made that square a wee-bit larger!
> > We all got a good laugh out of looking at each other's work sheets after we were back 'on the ground'. The others in the chamber didn't fare much better than I did but the big take-away is this: if you think you are immune to hypoxia, you are full of it! Hypoxia is a silent killer; it creeps up on you and lets you make one bad decision after the other, all the while you are convinced that you got it under control - well, you don't!
> > O2 is cheap insurance and the MH-systems have reached an unprecedented level of accuracy and reliability.
> > If you have a chance to take a high altitude chamber ride, do it. I think the one at Wright Pat is no longer in operation, so if anyone knows where one is that is accessible to civilians, chime in.
> >
> > Uli
> > 'AS'
> A couple of years ago, I suffered a deep-vein thrombosis (blood clot) in my left leg while on a cross-country flight in southern Arizona. I had been flying for around an hour between 8,000 and 10,000 feet. It was a hot May day and I was somewhat dehydrated. I was lucky the clot stayed where it was and didn't result in worse problems.
>
> My doctor discovered that I had a genetic condition that predisposed me to blood clots, but he also said that strong contributory factors were positional immobility, dehydration and depleted blood oxygen levels. Up to that time, I had set my oxygen to start at 10,000 feet (typically it would start about 9,600). At altitudes of 8,000 to 10,000 feet, I would have had some hypoxia. So I discovered another medical condition that can be exacerbated by hypoxia. I could have bought a lot of oxygen for my medical bills!
>
> Mike

You should consider taking a blood thinner. Aspirin is one possibility and no prescription is required.

Tom

[Mike the Strike]

On Tuesday, December 22, 2020 at 11:08:52 PM UTC-7, 2G wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 15, 2020 at 1:37:09 PM UTC-8, Mike the Strike wrote:
> > On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 6:55:45 PM UTC-7, AS wrote:
> > > On Thursday, December 10, 2020 at 4:23:10 PM UTC-8, Waveguru wrote:
> > > > This is in response to the paraglider missing thread. Many pilots all over the world underestimate the effects of hypoxia and think that they are the exception to the rules. This ferry pilot certainly did.
> > > >
> > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt2TGjuwv_s&lc=UgykUSC5mqg8AzvrF2t4AaABAg.9GkCfA1H1bj9GlVqnzog Hl
> > > >
> > > > You really have no idea how effected you are. That is one of the reasons it is so dangerous.
> > > >
> > > > Boggs
> > > Before I started wave-flying over the Appalachians in PA and VW, I took a high altitude chamber ride at the Wright-Patterson AFB in OH. It was a true eye-opener. After a few minutes off O2 at 25,000ft, they had us work on a task sheet with all kinds of stupid stuff on it: 81-3, -3, -3 etc. dEciPherAtextTHatWaswrITTenLiKEThis, find your way out of a maze; simple stuff, piece of cake! The supervisor on the outside called me on my head-set and asked me, how many thumbs I had: 10, of course - and why are these jack-a$$es behind that big window laughing at me?
> > > Let me tell you, my work sheet would have been worth framing! The column of 81-3s was correct for the first few calculations, then my numbers got bigger again and even started to grow decimals! The text I deciphered was in some language - none of which I was familiar with - and I know a few of them! My way out of the maze was a straight line from the center to the exit - screw those walls! All this was done with full recollection and being convinced, that the round peg would go into that square hole, if they just had made that square a wee-bit larger!
> > > We all got a good laugh out of looking at each other's work sheets after we were back 'on the ground'. The others in the chamber didn't fare much better than I did but the big take-away is this: if you think you are immune to hypoxia, you are full of it! Hypoxia is a silent killer; it creeps up on you and lets you make one bad decision after the other, all the while you are convinced that you got it under control - well, you don't!
> > > O2 is cheap insurance and the MH-systems have reached an unprecedented level of accuracy and reliability.
> > > If you have a chance to take a high altitude chamber ride, do it. I think the one at Wright Pat is no longer in operation, so if anyone knows where one is that is accessible to civilians, chime in.
> > >
> > > Uli
> > > 'AS'
> > A couple of years ago, I suffered a deep-vein thrombosis (blood clot) in my left leg while on a cross-country flight in southern Arizona. I had been flying for around an hour between 8,000 and 10,000 feet. It was a hot May day and I was somewhat dehydrated. I was lucky the clot stayed where it was and didn't result in worse problems.
> >
> > My doctor discovered that I had a genetic condition that predisposed me to blood clots, but he also said that strong contributory factors were positional immobility, dehydration and depleted blood oxygen levels. Up to that time, I had set my oxygen to start at 10,000 feet (typically it would start about 9,600). At altitudes of 8,000 to 10,000 feet, I would have had some hypoxia. So I discovered another medical condition that can be exacerbated by hypoxia. I could have bought a lot of oxygen for my medical bills!
> >
> > Mike
> You should consider taking a blood thinner. Aspirin is one possibility and no prescription is required.
>
> Tom
Tom:

I was put on blood thinners immediately by my doctor and because of my genetic predisposition to clotting these are now necessary to maintain my medical for flying. it's been four years and no problems since.

I should note that the genetic condition that got me here is shared by about 15% of people of European ancestry - almost certainly a bunch of pilots out there have the same condition that puts them in a higher probability of blood clots. My doctor notes that the condition is typically symptomless in males and problems usually only surface after the age of 60 and are often triggered by other factors.

My genetic scan also showed a couple of other broken genes - I am unable to metabolize some opioids and anesthetics. I haven't discovered why cilantro tastes soapy (my wife loves it) - apparently another genetic oddball.

Mike