Insurance recommendations please

[City Dweller]

Hi everyone,

I was hoping someone can recommend an insurance company for my new Diamond
Star. I am based in New Jersey. This would be a joint policy with my
instructor (I don't have my ticket yet). I have heard that Avemco is
overpriced, and I already submitted a quote request to Falcon. Any others?

Thanks in advance

-- City Dweller

[City Dweller]

BTW I realize that aviation insurance is usually acquired through a broker,
so if anyone can recommend a good broker in Northeast, I'd appreciate it
also.

-- C.Dweller


"City Dweller" > wrote in message
...
> Hi everyone,
>
> I was hoping someone can recommend an insurance company for my new Diamond
> Star. I am based in New Jersey. This would be a joint policy with my
> instructor (I don't have my ticket yet). I have heard that Avemco is
> overpriced, and I already submitted a quote request to Falcon. Any others?
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> -- City Dweller
>
>
>

[Robert M. Gary]

I've enjoyed SouthWest aviation. They are a broker and will shop
several insurance companies. They've been real good for me and they
really helped my friend when he totalled his 201.
http://www.southwestaviation.com/


-Robert

[Robert M. Gary]

I'm not sure location of the broker is important. I live in NorCal and
SouthWest Aviation is in Phoenix. I've never seen my broker face to
face.

[Paul kgyy]

AOPA brokers insurance. Some people think they are expensive, but I'd
guess it depends on a lot of things. I've used them for several years.

Try Travers also - don't have a web address but a search should locate
them.

[Doug]

Give AVEMCO a call and get a quote. Insurance quotes are all over the
place, pricewise. But AVEMCO sometimes provides good prices, sometimes
not. All depends on what their rates have been set lately. Only way to
find is to call. AVEMCO does not have brokers, so it doesn't matter if
you have called other agents to get quotes. They only sell direct.

The companies that use brokers put a LOCK on your quoting so you can
only get one quote at a time. I think it is wierd. You call one agent,
ask for a quote. He HAS to have your N-number. He calls the company and
that N-number is locked for some period of time. This is so we
consumers can't go around getting quotes from a bunch of agents. It
apparently is legal cause they all do it. (Not AVEMCO, they don't use
this system. Getting a quote from them won't lock you).

[City Dweller]

Yes, I've heard about this weird practive. I will definitely try Avemco,
thanks for the tip. It looks like Falcon also accepts direct quote requests,
you don't have to use a broker. Know anything about them?

Thanks again.
cd

"Doug" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Give AVEMCO a call and get a quote. Insurance quotes are all over the
> place, pricewise. But AVEMCO sometimes provides good prices, sometimes
> not. All depends on what their rates have been set lately. Only way to
> find is to call. AVEMCO does not have brokers, so it doesn't matter if
> you have called other agents to get quotes. They only sell direct.
>
> The companies that use brokers put a LOCK on your quoting so you can
> only get one quote at a time. I think it is wierd. You call one agent,
> ask for a quote. He HAS to have your N-number. He calls the company and
> that N-number is locked for some period of time. This is so we
> consumers can't go around getting quotes from a bunch of agents. It
> apparently is legal cause they all do it. (Not AVEMCO, they don't use
> this system. Getting a quote from them won't lock you).
>

[Doug]

Falcon IS a broker. They do the same as all brokers. I guess they are
as good as any. I think you should get two quotes, one from a company
like Falcon (which isn't an underwriter), and one from a AVEMCO.

With the exception of AVEMCO, ALL of them are brokers. If they broker
for many underwriters (there are not that many underwriters, only about
6 or 7), then they can shop around among their underwriters for the
best insurance. This is fine. What will happen is they will want an
N-number (wont quote without one), and NO other underwriters will quote
on that N-number for some period of time (I don't know how long). That
is what is a problem. The insurance companies claim they need this. I
don' t know how to get around it. You could make up an N-number, or use
some other plane's N-number, but that's a little unethical and you
wouldn't get a binding quote with a bogus N number. See if you can find
out how long the lock will exist before it expires. Ask Falcon.They
will probably tell you they don't know, but be insistent. Ask them who
would know.

What I would do is ask around your local airport and find out the names
of brokers your fellow pilots are using. Also, brokers are sometimes
limited to what states they can work in, not always.

The underwritiers are USAIG, AIG, companies like that. AOPA is a
broker. Falcon is a broker. But to access the underwriters like USAIG,
you need a broker. That is the way it works.

[Doug Vetter]

City Dweller wrote:
> I was hoping someone can recommend an insurance company for my new Diamond
> Star. I am based in New Jersey. This would be a joint policy with my
> instructor (I don't have my ticket yet). I have heard that Avemco is
> overpriced, and I already submitted a quote request to Falcon. Any others?

What others say is true -- doesn't matter where your broker is, but FYI,
ours is right here in NJ:

http://www.wingsagency.com/

They're located at KVAY (South Jersey Regional). We've been happy with
their quotes and service.

FYI, you heard right. Stay away from Avemco unless you really like
paying double the going rate, or giving them tons of money over the
years only to have them drop you when you move up to an aircraft they
choose not to insure for some rediculous reason.

-Doug

--------------------
Doug Vetter, CFIMEIA

http://www.dvcfi.com
--------------------

[George Patterson]

Doug wrote:
>
> What will happen is they will want an
> N-number (wont quote without one), and NO other underwriters will quote
> on that N-number for some period of time (I don't know how long). That
> is what is a problem. The insurance companies claim they need this.

The reason is very simple. They don't want to waste their time providing
multiple quotes on the same plane. It costs them money. So, when the second
broker calls asking for a price, the underwriter won't give it to him.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

[George Patterson]

Doug Vetter wrote:
>
> FYI, you heard right. Stay away from Avemco unless you really like
> paying double the going rate, or giving them tons of money over the
> years only to have them drop you when you move up to an aircraft they
> choose not to insure for some rediculous reason.

Another trick Avemco uses is to give you a lowball rate (or at least a decent
one) for the first year and then jack your premium 10% or more. So, try them
anyway. If they give you a decent price, take it for a year. Just be prepared to
find another company when the price goes up.

And ... my broker is Chris Wolbert at 301-682-6200.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

[Doug]

I've had good luck with AVEMCO. Shop and compare. If you get a good
rate from one of the companies, go with them. But really, there are two
companies, AVEMCO and everyone else. MIght as well get a quote from
both.

[Ray Bengen]

I use Travers and have used them for years. Very good service.
Understand as I found out that all brokers get the same rates from
underwriters so it's all done to service. this is what I've learnt.

www.traversaviation.com

BOB.

Ray

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 14:51:55 GMT, City Dweller > wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I was hoping someone can recommend an insurance company for my new
> Diamond
> Star. I am based in New Jersey. This would be a joint policy with my
> instructor (I don't have my ticket yet). I have heard that Avemco is
> overpriced, and I already submitted a quote request to Falcon. Any
> others?
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> -- City Dweller
>
>
>



--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

[Nathan Young]

On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 14:51:55 GMT, "City Dweller" >
wrote:

>Hi everyone,
>
>I was hoping someone can recommend an insurance company for my new Diamond
>Star. I am based in New Jersey. This would be a joint policy with my
>instructor (I don't have my ticket yet). I have heard that Avemco is
>overpriced, and I already submitted a quote request to Falcon. Any others?

I have used Wenk as my broker for several years, and have been happy.

They are pro-active and do a good job of searching out quotes. They
seem to find good rates. OTOH, I have never filed a claim with any of
their carriers, and that is the real test of insurance.

http://www.wenkinsurance.com/

-Nathan

[OtisWinslow]

http://www.nationair.com/



"City Dweller" > wrote in message
...
> Hi everyone,
>
> I was hoping someone can recommend an insurance company for my new Diamond
> Star. I am based in New Jersey. This would be a joint policy with my
> instructor (I don't have my ticket yet). I have heard that Avemco is
> overpriced, and I already submitted a quote request to Falcon. Any others?
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> -- City Dweller
>
>
>

[Tina Marie]

In article <Gfsqe.659$aR1.25@trndny02>, George Patterson wrote:
> Another trick Avemco uses is to give you a lowball rate (or at least a decent
> one) for the first year and then jack your premium 10% or more. So, try them
> anyway. If they give you a decent price, take it for a year. Just be prepared to
> find another company when the price goes up.

Avemco has a reputation for insuring things that other companies
won't touch (experimentals), or pilots who are not otherwise
insurable in the aircraft (too low time or such).

It's not a bad deal if you insure with them for the first year,
fly a lot, then go with a different company when Avemco raises
your rates - by then you've got, say, 100 hours in type, and it's
easier to get a quote from another company.

Tina Marie
--
http://www.tripacerdriver.com "...One of the main causes
of the fall of the Roman Empire was that, lacking zero, they had no way
to indicate successful termination of their C programs." (Robert Firth)

[Newps]

Aaron Coolidge wrote:
> Doug Vetter > wrote:
>
> : FYI, you heard right. Stay away from Avemco unless you really like
> : paying double the going rate, or giving them tons of money over the
> : years only to have them drop you when you move up to an aircraft they
> : choose not to insure for some rediculous reason.
>
> Have you ever been insured with Avemco?
>
> I have for the last 4 years. My rates have remained constant or decreased
> every year as I have added hours & ratings, despite increasing the stated
> value of my airplane.
>
> Another point is to compare the same policies. Avemco doesn't do the ultra-
> cheap policies; for example all of their policies come with a generous
> open pilot clause. As this matters to me, I'm happy to pay the Avemco rate.

I have never insured with Avemco because their rates are so horrible.
They send me a form every spring because they know my insurance is due
in May. Every year I fill it out to see if they've come to their
senses. Every year they are 50% higher than my broker comes in at.
Makes no sense. The Cub crowd seems to like them, they have the lowest
rates there.

[George Patterson]

Aaron Coolidge wrote:
>
> I have for the last 4 years. My rates have remained constant or decreased
> every year as I have added hours & ratings, despite increasing the stated
> value of my airplane.

Glad you're happy with them. Every time they gave me a quote on my Maule, it was
well over $3,000. My last policy was a bit over $1,200.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

[City Dweller]

Thanks for everyone who responded.

I got my quote today: $3,400, with small deductibles ($250 in motion and $50
not in motion), $1,000.000/$100.000, with only 5 required dual hours in the
type before solo, and no additional hours solo after getting the ticket
before taking passengers. Considering I am not even a PPL yet, it sounds
reasonable.

Comments anyone?

-- CIty Dweller


"OtisWinslow" > wrote in message
m...
> http://www.nationair.com/
>
>
>
> "City Dweller" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> I was hoping someone can recommend an insurance company for my new
>> Diamond Star. I am based in New Jersey. This would be a joint policy with
>> my instructor (I don't have my ticket yet). I have heard that Avemco is
>> overpriced, and I already submitted a quote request to Falcon. Any
>> others?
>>
>> Thanks in advance
>>
>> -- City Dweller
>>
>>
>>
>
>

[Chuck]

On Sat, 11 Jun 2005 02:42:31 GMT, George Patterson
> wrote:

>Doug wrote:
>>
>> What will happen is they will want an
>> N-number (wont quote without one), and NO other underwriters will quote
>> on that N-number for some period of time (I don't know how long). That
>> is what is a problem. The insurance companies claim they need this.
>
>The reason is very simple. They don't want to waste their time providing
>multiple quotes on the same plane. It costs them money. So, when the second
>broker calls asking for a price, the underwriter won't give it to him.

Horse****!

Its just a way of protecting the brokers who bring them business. If
there wasn't a lock, you could call five different brokers and shop
around to get the best price. Since the Insurance company charges
pretty much the same -- the best price is the broker who marks it up
the least.

I've seen it in other industries. It used to be the gold standard
20-30 years ago in cars. You NEVER found out what the dealer's
invoice price was -- you bought it sticker or didn't buy. And in the
back office, the salesman was collecting a $3,000 - $6,000 commission.
But not anymore. Today you can find the invoice price on the net.

LIfe insurance also used to be that way. I know, I did it for a while
(very SHORT while). Mark up was incredible. And the 'broker' didn't
always shop around for the best price for the customer -- a lesser
price meant a smaller precentage commission.

The only way to stop this "system" the insurance companies use is to
start fighting it. If a lot of fellow owners start refusing to give a
N# when they call for a quote and simply hangup when they insist they
need it -- they'll start getting the idea. It will be a pain for us
all and will mean multiple phone calls with arguments on each call.

But I don't think the car sales industry changed overnight and without
a fight...



Chuck

[[email protected]]

I recommend calling Larry Rachlin. You will get the best deal.

800- 240-3637