resorcinol = Carpenter's glue

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Resorcinol is the recommended adhesive for wooden aircraft?
To what degree is carpenters glue the same thing?

[Morgans]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Resorcinol is the recommended adhesive for wooden aircraft?
> To what degree is carpenters glue the same thing?

Others are more experienced, but I read that carpenters glue is to never be
used on aircraft. I think the problem is that it dries too brittle.
--
Jim in NC

[Ron Wanttaja]

On 11 Jun 2005 17:58:50 -0700, " >
wrote:

>Resorcinol is the recommended adhesive for wooden aircraft?
>To what degree is carpenters glue the same thing?

To about the same extent that staples are rivets.

Ron Wanttaja

[W P Dixon]

From what I hear carpenters glue does not go well with moisture, and weakens
under humid conditions. I have found that T-88 makes one heck of a bond,
it's a two part epoxy. How well it holds up after years of flying, I don't
know yet ..have not gotten there yet ;) But there are several Volksplanes
flying that have been made with it and are doing great.
As Mr Morgans pointed out..brittleness. It seems from what I have read
on that subject it really plays a role in any kind of a gap between parts.
The glue just shears right at the joint. I am a pretty good woodworker , but
I don't know if every single joint would be as perfect as needed in order to
offset the brittle shear effect. Wouldn't advise anyone else try it either.

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech

[COLIN LAMB]

The difference is life and death!

[Lou]

The biggest problem that I see with this discussion group is the smart
ass answers that are given to people with good questions. Listen to
Dixon, I've been a carpenter for 25 years and although I will glue
just about anything with carpenters glue, I would never expect it to
sustain life.
Lou

[Blueskies]

"W P Dixon" > wrote in message ...
> From what I hear carpenters glue does not go well with moisture, and weakens under humid conditions. I have found that
> T-88 makes one heck of a bond, it's a two part epoxy. How well it holds up after years of flying, I don't know yet
> ..have not gotten there yet ;) But there are several Volksplanes flying that have been made with it and are doing
> great.
> As Mr Morgans pointed out..brittleness. It seems from what I have read on that subject it really plays a role in
> any kind of a gap between parts. The glue just shears right at the joint. I am a pretty good woodworker , but I don't
> know if every single joint would be as perfect as needed in order to offset the brittle shear effect. Wouldn't advise
> anyone else try it either.
>
> Patrick
> student SPL
> aircraft structural mech

I just read the other day that T-88, being an epoxy adhesive, will soften with heat. The recommendation was to be sure
the final paint job was mostly white to keep the temperatures inside the structure below 140° F....

[COLIN LAMB]

"The biggest problem that I see with this discussion group is the smart ass
answers that are given to people with good questions."

A number of aircraft have failed due to improper glue, causing death to the
pilot. Considering using carpenter's glue for an aircraft structure
indicates such a lack of basic understanding that I question whether the
constructor should be building an aircraft at all. And, with such a lack of
understanding of basic materials the questioner should not be reliant on the
question is answered.

What if 10 people responded and said carpenters glue is fine? What if no
one responded.

The first few responses were not blunt, nor did they convey the message that
to use carpenter's glue was akin to Icarius making his wings out of wax. I
always appreciated when my teachers were blunt about a stupid question.

The fact was that the question indicated the questioner was considering
sustaining life with carpenter's glue.

Colin

[COLIN LAMB]

I suppose I should have been more politically correct and made a response
such as:

Although it is possible to use carpenter glue for aircraft, it is not
recommended. The odds of the wings falling off during flight increase, and
if the wings fall off during flight, the prospect of death increases. It is
also possible to use a glue made from flour and water, but that is not
recommended for the same reason.

If you use a glue such as resorcinol, you will have the confidence that the
wings are less likely to disassemble while in flight.

It is recommended that you follow the plans of the aircraft designer and not
make the spars out of lumber purchased at the local lumber discount store.

Have a nice day.

[Tedstriker]

On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 13:26:49 GMT, "COLIN LAMB" >
wrote:

>"The biggest problem that I see with this discussion group is the smart ass
>answers that are given to people with good questions."
>
>A number of aircraft have failed due to improper glue, causing death to the
>pilot. Considering using carpenter's glue for an aircraft structure
>indicates such a lack of basic understanding that I question whether the
>constructor should be building an aircraft at all. And, with such a lack of
>understanding of basic materials the questioner should not be reliant on the
>question is answered.
>
>What if 10 people responded and said carpenters glue is fine? What if no
>one responded.
>
>The first few responses were not blunt, nor did they convey the message that
>to use carpenter's glue was akin to Icarius making his wings out of wax. I
>always appreciated when my teachers were blunt about a stupid question.
>
>The fact was that the question indicated the questioner was considering
>sustaining life with carpenter's glue.
>
>Colin
>
I've got an all-wood plane, that was built with the Hughes FPL 19
epoxy glue, ivented at the Forest Products Labratory. It was probably
one of the first Epoxy glues used by the homebuilt crowd. Before,
glues like Weldwood were the standard. My plane also has some T-88
used in a few places. The answer is to read some of the great books
available from the EAA on wood construction and glues, before ever
starting construction on a wooden plane. And if building with plans,
you can't go wrong with building with whatever the designer
recommends, if that glue is still available. Some glues, like
Aerolite, I hear are dissappearing.

[Stealth Pilot]

On 11 Jun 2005 17:58:50 -0700, "
> wrote:

>Resorcinol is the recommended adhesive for wooden aircraft?
>To what degree is carpenters glue the same thing?

resorcinol formaldehyde is a plum coloured liquid and a tan coloured
hardener powder. been in use on aircraft for about 70 years.

urea formaldehyde is I think the carpenters glue.

different chemistry

Stealth Pilot

[Morgans]

"COLIN LAMB" > wrote

> The first few responses were not blunt, nor did they convey the message
that
> to use carpenter's glue was akin to Icarius making his wings out of wax.

This not blunt enough? Quote: I read that carpenters glue is to never be
used on aircraft. I think the problem is that it dries too brittle.

Or how about this? Quote: The glue just shears right at the joint.

> The fact was that the question indicated the questioner was considering
> sustaining life with carpenter's glue.

Huh? OP quote: Resorcinol is the recommended adhesive for wooden aircraft?
To what degree is carpenters glue the same thing?

He asked how much they were related. Like, "are they both animal products,
so will I find resorcinol similar to work with, as carpenters glue, in how
it is applied," perhaps. Nowhere did he say he was going to use carpenters
glue on an airplane, by asking "can I use carpenters glue instead of
resorcinol?"

I agree, that the question seems like the OP should have more knowledge at
hand, but geez, don't over react.
--
Jim in NC

[W P Dixon]

Well Colin I thought it was pretty dern blunt myself. Without being a
dickhead about it, but telling him what would happen...SHEAR. Now hmm let's
see does anyone with any common sense see that as DANGER? I am sure they do.
;) The dreaded "Wings of Wax" may tell him danger as well, but it still did
not tell him a reason why. I gave him a few reasons why. Doom and gloom all
you wish to, but tell a student the reason WHY. I am sure your teacher would
agree.

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech


"COLIN LAMB" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> The first few responses were not blunt, nor did they convey the message
> that to use carpenter's glue was akin to Icarius making his wings out of
> wax. I always appreciated when my teachers were blunt about a stupid
> question.
>
> The fact was that the question indicated the questioner was considering
> sustaining life with carpenter's glue.
>
> Colin
>

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Some sites

http://www.indspec-chem.com/products/resorcinol/resorcinol.asp

http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Types_and_Properties_of_Woodworking_Adhesives.html