Geeky GPS question (PCI card, possibly off-topic)

[Tina Marie]

I have an old Airmap 5000. It stores the data on a PCI card that
slides into the unit.

My database is now 3 years old. Lowrance stopped providing data
about 4 years ago, and a year ago Jeppson dropped support.

A web search didn't reveal anybody else selling databases.

Now, that data is on the 'net. I'm a reasonably competant programmer,
and I could reverse-engineer the database format, and write code
that would put fresh data back into that format, thus updating my
database.

Here's the problem: I have no idea how to read/write to that
PCI card. Has anyone done this? Is there a driver somewhere, or
am I going to have to write that too? I'd assume there was some
sort of standard "data storage" PCI API, just like there is for
the data storage USB devices.

If I went to all this trouble, I'd be glad to update other people's
cards for shipping costs, since there isn't any other way to get
the data, and I'm guessing there are a reasonable number of these
out there.

Any help would be appreciated!

Tina Marie
--
http://www.tripacerdriver.com "...One of the main causes
of the fall of the Roman Empire was that, lacking zero, they had no way
to indicate successful termination of their C programs." (Robert Firth)

[Tina Marie]

In article >, Tina Marie wrote:
> I have an old Airmap 5000. It stores the data on a PCI card that
> slides into the unit.

Despite my repeated uses of "PCI" in this post, I really did mean
a PC card, as quite a few emails have reminded me.

Tina "the lurkers support me in email!" Marie
--
http://www.tripacerdriver.com "...One of the main causes
of the fall of the Roman Empire was that, lacking zero, they had no way
to indicate successful termination of their C programs." (Robert Firth)

[Ben Hallert]

Work your way backwards. If you have a card with the last database
update on it, start by analyzing how the data is stored there. That
should be the first step in any project like this, the format _might_
be immediately apparent.... or it might be deliberately obfuscated to
maintain a business model. You should be able to find out quickly.

Basically, if you have the skills to write a replacement device for
updating the DB, then you have the skills to examine the card and
figure out where to start. : )

[[email protected]]

I'm wondering about the Mx Northstars.

I know that there is some compression algorithm used in the M1.
Memory wasn't so cheap back then. Why would they have not also
used this for the M > 1?

The airmap might use the same tricks.

It might make it devilishly tricky to reverse engineer.

Bill Hale

[Ben Hallert]

Followup question, while doing this to get the current data is its own
rewards, I wonder if there would be any implications for
IFR-worthiness? I imagine it depends on what the POH supplement says
about where the data can come from.

[Ben Jackson]

On 2005-06-13, Tina Marie > wrote:
> Here's the problem: I have no idea how to read/write to that
> PCI card. Has anyone done this?

Since you clarified you meant "PC card", then yes. The easiest way
is going to be to get a laptop, boot linux (could be from CD) and insert
the card. It will almost certainly recognize it as a storage card. Then
you have to figure out what's stored on it. Might be a filesystem (likely
FAT16) or it might be flat data.

Once you figure that out you'll have to figure out what the data format
is. Among other things there will probably be a checksum or CRC that you'll
have to figure out how to produce. This will be especially hard with only
one example to go on.

--
Ben Jackson
>
http://www.ben.com/

[Darrel Toepfer]

Tina Marie wrote:
> I have an old Airmap 5000. It stores the data on a PCI card that
> slides into the unit.
>
> My database is now 3 years old. Lowrance stopped providing data
> about 4 years ago, and a year ago Jeppson dropped support.
>
> A web search didn't reveal anybody else selling databases.
>
> Now, that data is on the 'net. I'm a reasonably competant programmer,
> and I could reverse-engineer the database format, and write code
> that would put fresh data back into that format, thus updating my
> database.
>
> Here's the problem: I have no idea how to read/write to that
> PCI card. Has anyone done this? Is there a driver somewhere, or
> am I going to have to write that too? I'd assume there was some
> sort of standard "data storage" PCI API, just like there is for
> the data storage USB devices.
>
> If I went to all this trouble, I'd be glad to update other people's
> cards for shipping costs, since there isn't any other way to get
> the data, and I'm guessing there are a reasonable number of these
> out there.
>
> Any help would be appreciated!

This guy does exactly this for the older Magellans:

http://home.stny.rr.com/bkw/315

Added new life to my $90 GPS...

[[email protected]]

This is very nice. I wish someone would do this for my Airmap 100. I
missed out on the last databse that Lowrance published before they
dropped support. Sigh.

Darrel Toepfer wrote:
> Tina Marie wrote:
> > I have an old Airmap 5000. It stores the data on a PCI card that
> > slides into the unit.
> >
> > My database is now 3 years old. Lowrance stopped providing data
> > about 4 years ago, and a year ago Jeppson dropped support.
> >
> > A web search didn't reveal anybody else selling databases.
> >
> > Now, that data is on the 'net. I'm a reasonably competant programmer,
> > and I could reverse-engineer the database format, and write code
> > that would put fresh data back into that format, thus updating my
> > database.
> >
> > Here's the problem: I have no idea how to read/write to that
> > PCI card. Has anyone done this? Is there a driver somewhere, or
> > am I going to have to write that too? I'd assume there was some
> > sort of standard "data storage" PCI API, just like there is for
> > the data storage USB devices.
> >
> > If I went to all this trouble, I'd be glad to update other people's
> > cards for shipping costs, since there isn't any other way to get
> > the data, and I'm guessing there are a reasonable number of these
> > out there.
> >
> > Any help would be appreciated!
>
> This guy does exactly this for the older Magellans:
>
> http://home.stny.rr.com/bkw/315
>
> Added new life to my $90 GPS...

[Darrel Toepfer]

wrote:

> This is very nice. I wish someone would do this for my Airmap 100. I
> missed out on the last databse that Lowrance published before they
> dropped support. Sigh.

I always bump into memory limitations, the Magellan POI (Points of
Interest) allow me to select exactly what I want or don't want
(Public/Private/Military Aiports, etc.) to stay within what the GPS can
hold. That might be exactly the problem with the other models mentioned...

[Tina Marie]

In article >, Ben Jackson wrote:
> Since you clarified you meant "PC card", then yes. The easiest way
> is going to be to get a laptop, boot linux (could be from CD) and insert
> the card. It will almost certainly recognize it as a storage card. Then
> you have to figure out what's stored on it. Might be a filesystem (likely
> FAT16) or it might be flat data.

Hm. My laptop runs XP, but I saw a floppy-drive-like-device that lets you
plug a PC card into a desktoy which I could put in my linux machine to
try it. If it's FAT16, the XP box might be able to see it. I'll try
that first, if it doesn't work, I'll go buy the hardware for my linux box.

> Once you figure that out you'll have to figure out what the data format
> is. Among other things there will probably be a checksum or CRC that you'll
> have to figure out how to produce. This will be especially hard with only
> one example to go on.

Actually, I have two, which is better then one, but not great. And I'm hoping
when I get closer to getting it working I can get a few more examples from
other people.

Thanks!

Tina Marie
--
http://www.tripacerdriver.com "...One of the main causes
of the fall of the Roman Empire was that, lacking zero, they had no way
to indicate successful termination of their C programs." (Robert Firth)

[Tina Marie]

In article . com>, Ben Hallert wrote:
> Followup question, while doing this to get the current data is its own
> rewards, I wonder if there would be any implications for
> IFR-worthiness? I imagine it depends on what the POH supplement says
> about where the data can come from.

I'm guessing it would invalidate the IFR-ness. I certainly would be
hesitant to fly hard IFR behind data I reverse engineered, then generated
myself. But the panel-mount in question is VFR-only anyway.

Tina Marie
--
http://www.tripacerdriver.com "...One of the main causes
of the fall of the Roman Empire was that, lacking zero, they had no way
to indicate successful termination of their C programs." (Robert Firth)

[Chuck]

On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 09:45:13 -0500, Tina Marie
> wrote:

>In article >, Ben Jackson wrote:
>> Since you clarified you meant "PC card", then yes. The easiest way
>> is going to be to get a laptop, boot linux (could be from CD) and insert
>> the card. It will almost certainly recognize it as a storage card. Then
>> you have to figure out what's stored on it. Might be a filesystem (likely
>> FAT16) or it might be flat data.
>
>Hm. My laptop runs XP, but I saw a floppy-drive-like-device that lets you
>plug a PC card into a desktoy which I could put in my linux machine to
>try it. If it's FAT16, the XP box might be able to see it. I'll try
>that first, if it doesn't work, I'll go buy the hardware for my linux box.

I wouldn't do that if I were you. Micro$oft operating system have a
nasty habit of "fixing" the crucial areas that it THINKS are not
right.

I've got two drives here with a total of 110GIG of data that Winblows
has made inaccessable. On one, it started creating additional File
Allocation Tables until nothing was recognizable any more. The other,
it rewrote the LBA mapping file and everything is gone -- poof!

Use the Linux system. At least, it won't try to modify anything when
you try to mount the removable drive. If it can't mount it -- it will
just error instead of trying to "fix" it. And you can always tell
Linux "mount -ro /dev/DEVICE". That way, its mounted read-only and
you're sure of not messing up your only data source.



Chuck

[Dylan Smith]

On 2005-06-14, Tina Marie > wrote:
> Hm. My laptop runs XP

In which case use Knoppix 2.9 (http://www.knoppix.org). It's a complete
Linux system that runs off a CD and doesn't need installing. The latest
version even happily uses some of the more exotic bleeding edge hardware
we have floating around here.

--
Dylan Smith, Castletown, Isle of Man
Flying: http://www.dylansmith.net
Frontier Elite Universe: http://www.alioth.net
"Maintain thine airspeed, lest the ground come up and smite thee"

[Michael Nickolas]

>I always bump into memory limitations,

I think that is the reason for no more Airmap 100 updates. New
databases wont fit anymore...


Michael Nickolas
www.studionineproductions.com

[Darrel Toepfer]

Michael Nickolas wrote:

>>I always bump into memory limitations,
>
> I think that is the reason for no more Airmap 100 updates. New
> databases wont fit anymore...

If you could select your "POI"s then that might not be an issue. ie.
remove VOR/NDB/ILS/Obstruction/Seaplane waypoints to keep an uptodate
airport reference. This is all easily done with the Magellans upload
software. The GPS might not be as useful, but still useable...