STEC-30

[Jon Kraus]

Thinking about putting a STEC-30 with the GPS Steer in our '79 Mooney
M20J. Anyone have one of these that would care to give a PIREP? We are
located in the Inidianapolis area so fi yu know a good shop we'd
appreciate it. Thanks!!

Jon Kraus

[Michael]

A student of mine has that setup in his Mooney. It's a hell of a seup
in terms of roll control. GPSS makes an autopilot behave the way you
expect - it gets you on course and keeps you on course without a
problem. Without GPSS, an STEC might as well be a decades-old
Autocontrol/Altimatic - it will hunt so much in nav track mode that you
will wind up just using it in heading hold mode.

I'm not that impressed with the altitude hold function. The
installation I've seen lacks auto-trim. I would say that if you have a
Mooney without electric trim, the altitude hold is not worth buying.
If the air is smooth, a properly trimmed plane will hold altitude
anyway. If it's not, constantly retrimming when the thing beeps at you
isn't any less work than just holding altitude manually.

Michael

[[email protected]]

I have the STEC30 in my C172, although no GPS steer since I doon't have
a GPS (that will be changing next month). As for the A/P I must say
that it is fabulous, imho. I don't have any experience with any other
A/P so I can't compare, but I can't imagine what more I could want
unless it was one with alt preselect and some o ther bells and
whistles. I figure I need to do some of the flying.
I don't understand the other writer's comment about the alt hold. Mine
holds flawlessly; no drift or variation at all, and it engages
immediately. Whether IFR or VFR, I would recommend it without
reservation. I also can't understand not having the alt hold; being
able to rely on the A/P to keep the alt lets me be comfortable while I
fold a map or reach in to the back seat without worrying that I'll
gradually and imperceptibly descend or bust an IFR altitude while my
attention is momentarily diverted. I agree that a perfectly trimmed
plane will theoretically fly nice and straight nut there always seems
to be something that changes what the trim should be as I fly along.
Also, a you know, the STEC is based on the electric turn coordinator,
so provides a huge safety cushion if (when) your vacuum system goes
haywire. How nice it is to know that the A/P will keep me straight and
level when the vacuum goes out!!

[Thomas Borchert]

Jon,

we have the 50 in our Tobago. Great unit! Trim on the altitude hold is
a non-issue - you'd engage it only in trimmed condition anyway, so
there never is any "constantly adjusting the trim". The "electric
back-up" is reassuring.

GPSS is nice to have, but once you have it you realize how few bends
you have to fly anymore with GPS direct routings, so the thing rarely
gets a chance to do its magic. When it does, it is great fun to watch.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Ron Natalie]

Jon Kraus wrote:
> Thinking about putting a STEC-30 with the GPS Steer in our '79 Mooney
> M20J. Anyone have one of these that would care to give a PIREP? We are
> located in the Inidianapolis area so fi yu know a good shop we'd
> appreciate it. Thanks!!

A number of my fellow Navion owners have that autopilot. I've got the
55X with GPSS. They're happy with theirs, I'm more than happy with
mine. Can't help you with a shop in Indiana (got a good one here in
Virginia if you want to come that far). GPSS is way cool. What do
you have for a GPS?

[Jon Kraus]

Ron,
We a Garmin 430 GPS in the Mooney. Now I am getting kinda excited about
getting an AP installed. Whatever we end up with will have the GPSS
installed. I figure that for the money the GPSS is a great deal.

Jon Kraus

Ron Natalie wrote:
> Jon Kraus wrote:
>
>> Thinking about putting a STEC-30 with the GPS Steer in our '79 Mooney
>> M20J. Anyone have one of these that would care to give a PIREP? We are
>> located in the Inidianapolis area so fi yu know a good shop we'd
>> appreciate it. Thanks!!
>
>
> A number of my fellow Navion owners have that autopilot. I've got the
> 55X with GPSS. They're happy with theirs, I'm more than happy with
> mine. Can't help you with a shop in Indiana (got a good one here in
> Virginia if you want to come that far). GPSS is way cool. What do
> you have for a GPS?

[Paul kgyy]

I have the Model 30 in my Arrow and it's worth its weight in gold for
creating an easy flight. The one thing I did find disconcerting is
that, if it's raining, water somehow gets into the static system (my
guess). This causes small altimeter excursions (200-300 feet)and the
STEC starts to follow the excursions. I need to follow up with STEC on
this.

[Nathan Young]

On 17 Jun 2005 06:43:59 -0700, "Paul kgyy" >
wrote:

>I have the Model 30 in my Arrow and it's worth its weight in gold for
>creating an easy flight. The one thing I did find disconcerting is
>that, if it's raining, water somehow gets into the static system (my
>guess). This causes small altimeter excursions (200-300 feet)and the
>STEC starts to follow the excursions. I need to follow up with STEC on
>this.

Read these old thread(s) started by yours truly about my Cherokee's
altimeter oscillating in IMC and/or rain conditions, it may be of use
to your situation.

http://makeashorterlink.com/?T2061284B
http://makeashorterlink.com/?J3164284B

#2. Some of the Cherokee models had a static sump point with a
release valve. Mine does not, but I believe if yours has it - it is
along the left sidewall by the rear passenger's legs. Jay Honeck
discovered this on his Warrior (or was it on the Pathfinder?), either
way he can probably help...

-Nathan

[Ron Natalie]

Nathan Young wrote:
B
>
> #2. Some of the Cherokee models had a static sump point with a
> release valve. Mine does not, but I believe if yours has it - it is
> along the left sidewall by the rear passenger's legs. Jay Honeck
> discovered this on his Warrior (or was it on the Pathfinder?), either
> way he can probably help...
>
If I recall the Arrow I used to fly, it's down low on the left side wall
just forward of the pilot's seat, but I may be remembering it wrong.

[Tauno Voipio]

Ron Natalie wrote:
> Nathan Young wrote:
> B
>
>>
>> #2. Some of the Cherokee models had a static sump point with a
>> release valve. Mine does not, but I believe if yours has it - it is
>> along the left sidewall by the rear passenger's legs. Jay Honeck
>> discovered this on his Warrior (or was it on the Pathfinder?), either
>> way he can probably help...
>>
> If I recall the Arrow I used to fly, it's down low on the left side wall
> just forward of the pilot's seat, but I may be remembering it wrong.

My Turbo Arrow IV has two of them low on the left sidewall and
so far back that it's difficult to press them during preflight
if you're already seated. There is one of the valves for the
dynamic (pitot) pressure line and one for the static line.

--

Tauno Voipio (OH-PYM at EFHF)
tauno voipio (at) iki fi

[Dan Luke]

"Michael" wrote:
>Without GPSS, an STEC might as well be a decades-old
> Autocontrol/Altimatic - it will hunt so much in nav track mode that
> you
> will wind up just using it in heading hold mode.

Something's wrong with your student's S-Tec installation.

Mine doesn't have GPSS, but when it's set to "Approach" mode and the CDI
scale is set at one mile, it will hold me within 50' of my course line
for 100's of miles without hunting.

If I let the autopilot turn me to a new heading, it will hunt for a
while. GPSS would fix this, but I can't bring myself to pony up the
$1800 to add it.

> I'm not that impressed with the altitude hold function. The
> installation I've seen lacks auto-trim. I would say that if you have
> a
> Mooney without electric trim, the altitude hold is not worth buying.
> If the air is smooth, a properly trimmed plane will hold altitude
> anyway. If it's not, constantly retrimming when the thing beeps at
> you
> isn't any less work than just holding altitude manually.

Once again, this doesn't sound right. Turbulence has to be pretty close
to moderate before I'll turn altitude hold off.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

[Michael]

> If I let the autopilot turn me to a new heading, it will hunt for a
> while.

Well, that's the least of it. The real issue is when you change
course, or just hit direct-to and nav. With GPSS, it gets on course
and stays on course, smooth as you please. Without, you need to get it
on course manually, set the heading bug correctly, then when all is
good select nav track. And even then, you have a choice of hunting in
enroute mode, or annoying wing waggle in approach mode.

I suspect you have fewer issues with this because you fly a much more
stable, solid airplane. The experience I have with these gadgets is in
Mooneys and Bonanzas.

I suspect the same issue applies to altitude hold. When I'm talking
about smooth air, I don't so much mean lack of turbulence as lack of
lift/sink. Your airplane doesn't have nearly the tendency to pick up
speed when the nose is pointed down that a Mooney or Bonanza does, but
the flip side of this is that lift and sink don't affect your airspeed
(and thus your pitch trim) near as much. Thus you don't get beeped at
to retrim every time the vertical speed of the air mass changes by 200
fpm - but in a Mooney without autotrim, you will.

Michael

[Dan Luke]

"Michael" wrote:
> And even then, you have a choice of hunting in
> enroute mode, or annoying wing waggle in approach mode.

If it does this, something's wrong. It's not a difficult control task.

You should be able to pick a combination of approach/enroute mode and
CDI scale that produces a smooth, on course track. Try approach mode
with a 1-mile CDI. If that doesn't do it, I would suspect some binding
in the aileron controls or a faulty roll servo.

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

[Jimmy B.]

Ron Natalie wrote:
> Jon Kraus wrote:
>
>> Thinking about putting a STEC-30 with the GPS Steer in our '79 Mooney
>> M20J. Anyone have one of these that would care to give a PIREP? We are
>> located in the Inidianapolis area so fi yu know a good shop we'd
>> appreciate it. Thanks!!
>
>
> A number of my fellow Navion owners have that autopilot. I've got the
> 55X with GPSS. They're happy with theirs, I'm more than happy with
> mine. Can't help you with a shop in Indiana (got a good one here in
> Virginia if you want to come that far). GPSS is way cool. What do
> you have for a GPS?


What's the shop? I'm planning on having a autopilot installed later
this year.

[Jon Kraus]

We are going with Tim Matteson down in Lafayette Georgia. He comes
highly recommended by several Mooney owners in the Mooney email list. I
called and talked to him and got a quote today. Auto pilots and panel
upgrades are all that he does.

He also was was $2500 less than the nearest bid. We have an appointment
on August 5th for the install. He said it will only take him 3 days for
the install. Other shops were quoting a week or 2. Email me if you need
any other info.

Jon Kraus
'79 Mooney 201
Student Stec-30 owner

Jimmy B. wrote:
> Ron Natalie wrote:
>
>> Jon Kraus wrote:
>>
>>> Thinking about putting a STEC-30 with the GPS Steer in our '79 Mooney
>>> M20J. Anyone have one of these that would care to give a PIREP? We
>>> are located in the Inidianapolis area so fi yu know a good shop we'd
>>> appreciate it. Thanks!!
>>
>>
>>
>> A number of my fellow Navion owners have that autopilot. I've got the
>> 55X with GPSS. They're happy with theirs, I'm more than happy with
>> mine. Can't help you with a shop in Indiana (got a good one here in
>> Virginia if you want to come that far). GPSS is way cool. What do
>> you have for a GPS?
>
>
>
> What's the shop? I'm planning on having a autopilot installed later
> this year.
>

[Jon Kraus]

We are going with Tim Mattheson down in Lafayette Georgia. He comes
highly recommended by several Mooney owners in the Mooney email list. I
called and talked to him and got a quote today. Auto pilots and panel
upgrades are all that he does.

He also was was $2500 less than the nearest bid. We have an appointment
on August 5th for the install. He said it will only take him 3 days for
the install. Other shops were quoting a week or 2. Email me if you need
any other info.

Jon Kraus
'79 Mooney 201
Student Stec-30 owner

Jimmy B. wrote:

> Ron Natalie wrote:
>
>> Jon Kraus wrote:
>>
>>> Thinking about putting a STEC-30 with the GPS Steer in our '79 Mooney
>>> M20J. Anyone have one of these that would care to give a PIREP? We
>>> are located in the Inidianapolis area so fi yu know a good shop we'd
>>> appreciate it. Thanks!!
>>
>>
>>
>> A number of my fellow Navion owners have that autopilot. I've got the
>> 55X with GPSS. They're happy with theirs, I'm more than happy with
>> mine. Can't help you with a shop in Indiana (got a good one here in
>> Virginia if you want to come that far). GPSS is way cool. What do
>> you have for a GPS?
>
>
>
> What's the shop? I'm planning on having a autopilot installed later
> this year.
>

[Robbie S.]

I have had very good results with Mid America Avionics in Auburn, Indiana
(KGWB). Recently had a GNS430, 340 and 106A done. Rick Morris, is the guy
who runs the place and will deliver on time and on budget. His prices are
lower than the shops at Metro and Muncie.

....Robbie.


"Jon Kraus" > wrote in message
.. .
> Thinking about putting a STEC-30 with the GPS Steer in our '79 Mooney
> M20J. Anyone have one of these that would care to give a PIREP? We are
> located in the Inidianapolis area so fi yu know a good shop we'd
> appreciate it. Thanks!!
>
> Jon Kraus
>

[Ron Natalie]

Jimmy B. wrote:

>
> What's the shop? I'm planning on having a autopilot installed later
> this year.
>

Bay Avionics at Hampton Roads Airport (KPVG).

[Michael]

> If it does this, something's wrong. It's not a difficult control task.

I don't doubt it - but every installation I've seen does it. I know
full well it's not a difficult control task, but I also know it's not
the same control task for all airplanes. The more roll stability the
plane has, the easier the task.

A friend of mine who flew 727's for a while says that the autopilots on
those were the same way - they never used nav track enroute because
twiddling the heading bug (or even the roll trim) worked better.

Michael

[Dan Luke]

"Michael" wrote:
> > If it does this, something's wrong. It's not a difficult control task.
>
> I don't doubt it - but every installation I've seen does it. I know
> full well it's not a difficult control task, but I also know it's not
> the same control task for all airplanes. The more roll stability the
> plane has, the easier the task.

Nevertheless, the S-Tec autopilot is not much different from an industrial
PLC. Such devices --even cheap ones-- can handle all sorts of PV upsets with
rapid overshoot damping. The S-Tec should do as well.

Admittedly, my airplane is quite stable in roll, but really, so is a Mooney.
And if things are a bit bumpy, the Mooney might even be better, due to higher
wing loading.

> A friend of mine who flew 727's for a while says that the autopilots on
> those were the same way - they never used nav track enroute because
> twiddling the heading bug (or even the roll trim) worked better.

Well, it depends on what one is tracking. Attempting to track a wavering CDI
off a distant VOR will certainly produce oscillations. Tracking a CDI driven
by a GPS is quite another matter.
--
Dan
C-172RG at BFM

[Michael]

> Nevertheless, the S-Tec autopilot is not much different from an industrial PLC.

I suspect you're wrong there. I once interviewed an engineer who
worked for that particular manufacturer for a possible position with
our company. If he's representative of even the bottom quartile of
their engineers, I would say there is a huge difference - the engineers
who design industrial PLC's are dramatically more competent.

My guess is that the S-TEC is to PLC's what the Concorde or Gill
battery is to lawn tractor batteries - lower quality than even the
cheapest commercial offering, at a price slightly higher than the most
expensive commercial offering.

Michael