A36 Pilot Headroom

[Nathan Young]

I am looking at pruchasing an A36. I am 6'3" with a fair amount of my
height in my torso. I sat in the A36 and found that my head hit the
ceiling, even without a headset.

I found this interesting, as I have fit in every plane I've flown.
Most of my time is in Sundowner, Cherokee 180, Seneca II.

Anyway, is there any way to adjust the seat height on a 1976 A36? The
present owner did not think so.

Any other workarounds?

One other question: Can the 3rd/4th seat in an A36 be turned around
to face aft (ie club seating). I am interested if this is feasible
and legal.

Thanks,
-Nathan

[Robert M. Gary]

Sounds like you need a Mooney, the perfect plane for a tall person. The
Mooney was formed for tall people.

-Robert, 6'4" Mooney owner

[john smith]

Nathan Young wrote:
> Anyway, is there any way to adjust the seat height on a 1976 A36? The
> present owner did not think so.

It sits atop the spar so it is cannot be lowered.

> Any other workarounds?

Remove and replace the existing seat pan padding with a thinner, high
density Confor foam to reduce the height.

> One other question: Can the 3rd/4th seat in an A36 be turned around
> to face aft (ie club seating). I am interested if this is feasible
> and legal.

Depends on the year, perhaps. Some models of the A36 do have club seating.

[Tina Marie]

Robert M. Gary wrote:
> Sounds like you need a Mooney, the perfect plane for a tall person. The
> Mooney was formed for tall people.

Yes. When someone buys a Mooney, the tall, skinny soon-to-be-owner
goes to the factory, they sit him in a seat, then they form the airplane
around him.

Well, it's the only logical conclusion!

Tina Marie
(way too short and round to ever own one)
--
http://www.tripacerdriver.com "...One of the main causes
of the fall of the Roman Empire was that, lacking zero, they had no way
to indicate successful termination of their C programs." (Robert Firth)

[Michael]

> Sounds like you need a Mooney, the perfect plane for a tall person. The
> Mooney was formed for tall people.

I know you like Mooneys, but this is ridiculous.

The Mooney accomodates tall people because the sitting position is
reclined, like a sports car. If you could sit upright in your Mooney
(which you can't - the seat won't allow it) you would hit the top of
the cabin as well.

The A-36 actually has much more headroom than a Mooney (any Mooney -
even the much roomier Ovation) but by default the seat is upright. If
you're tall, you may have to recline the seat slightly - though not so
far as the least reclined position in the Mooney. It will reduce the
visibility some - but at its worst it won't be near as bad as the best
visibility you can get in a Mooney.

Michael (don't own either, but have flown and instructed in both)

[Robert M. Gary]

I've flown both and must disagree. In an A36 you sit up, like in a
truck. In the A36 my knees tend to hit the instrument panel. In the
Mooney you sit down low, with your feet sticking straight out in front
of you. You almost have to be 6 feet tall to reach the peddels. My
partner is just under 6 feet and has to run the seat all the way
forward and still has a VERY hard time seeing over the glare shield. My
wife (sitting in the right pax seat) cannot see ANYTHING in front of
the plane, even though she's sitting on a 1" Oregon Aero foam pad.
She's 5"4'. Even with the seat straight up, you almost have to be 6
feet (or use a cushion) to see properly over the glare shield. I still
have serveral inches left above my head in the Mooney, more than in the
A36.

-Robert

[Nathan Young]

On 21 Jun 2005 15:40:34 -0700, "Michael"
> wrote:

>The Mooney accomodates tall people because the sitting position is
>reclined, like a sports car. If you could sit upright in your Mooney
>(which you can't - the seat won't allow it) you would hit the top of
>the cabin as well.
>
>The A-36 actually has much more headroom than a Mooney (any Mooney -
>even the much roomier Ovation) but by default the seat is upright. If
>you're tall, you may have to recline the seat slightly - though not so
>far as the least reclined position in the Mooney.

I reclined the seat in the A36 and my head still hit the ceiling, so
unfortunately, this is not an option.

[Nathan Young]

On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 18:48:54 GMT, john smith > wrote:

>Nathan Young wrote:
>> Anyway, is there any way to adjust the seat height on a 1976 A36? The
>> present owner did not think so.
>
>It sits atop the spar so it is cannot be lowered.

I saw the structure underneath the seat and figured it was probably
the spar carrythrough. That doesn't bode well for adjustable seats.

>> Any other workarounds?
>
>Remove and replace the existing seat pan padding with a thinner, high
>density Confor foam to reduce the height.

This is the track I am pursuing with my A&P, but I doubt I could
really gain enough headroom to be comfortable.

Thanks for your idea.

-nathan

[nobody]

I flew some time in a couple of rental A36s and purchase a POH
for the model. According to the POH, the middle seat can be turned
around and faced forward. I wanted to do this on a couple of trip but
the FBO said it was not possible, eventhough the manual stated otherwise.
I think they just didn't want the hassle. For me, the A36 is best with the
middle seat facing forward and the rear two seats removed for baggage.

Just FYI, the POH also allows operation of the airplane with the rear cargo
doors removed.

Ronnie

"Nathan Young" > wrote in message
...
>I am looking at pruchasing an A36. I am 6'3" with a fair amount of my
> height in my torso. I sat in the A36 and found that my head hit the
> ceiling, even without a headset.
>
> I found this interesting, as I have fit in every plane I've flown.
> Most of my time is in Sundowner, Cherokee 180, Seneca II.
>
> Anyway, is there any way to adjust the seat height on a 1976 A36? The
> present owner did not think so.
>
> Any other workarounds?
>
> One other question: Can the 3rd/4th seat in an A36 be turned around
> to face aft (ie club seating). I am interested if this is feasible
> and legal.
>
> Thanks,
> -Nathan

[Michael]

> I reclined the seat in the A36 and my head still hit the ceiling, so
> unfortunately, this is not an option.

Something is wrong here. I have a student who is 6'2, flies with the
seat back fully upright, and still has headroom in his A-36. Are you
sure the seat height adjustment is cranked down all the way?

Michael

[Matt Barrow]

"Michael" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> > I reclined the seat in the A36 and my head still hit the ceiling, so
> > unfortunately, this is not an option.
>
> Something is wrong here. I have a student who is 6'2, flies with the
> seat back fully upright, and still has headroom in his A-36. Are you
> sure the seat height adjustment is cranked down all the way?
>
I think it's that your student is long in the legs and shorter in the torso,
just the opposite of this guy.

[Montblack]

("Matt Barrow" wrote)
> I think it's that your student is long in the legs and shorter in the
> torso, just the opposite of this guy.


At 6'2" I don't tower over the crowed. However, put me in a church pew and
I'm a head taller than most everyone in the congregation.

Kind of like a bipedal hippo.


Montblack

[Nathan Young]

On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 07:58:43 -0700, "Matt Barrow"
> wrote:

>
>"Michael" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>> > I reclined the seat in the A36 and my head still hit the ceiling, so
>> > unfortunately, this is not an option.
>>
>> Something is wrong here. I have a student who is 6'2, flies with the
>> seat back fully upright, and still has headroom in his A-36. Are you
>> sure the seat height adjustment is cranked down all the way?

I don't think there is a seat height adjustment in the A36. Another
poster noted that the seat sits directly on top of the spar, and I
concur based upon what I saw. I think the only option is to redo the
seats in a thinner layer of high density/comfort foam to provide
equivalent comfort with less padding. Still, it is hard to see how
this could provide more than 1" of additional clearance, and since my
head hits now without a headset, it would probably still be hitting
with the headset.

>I think it's that your student is long in the legs and shorter in the torso,
>just the opposite of this guy.

Exactly, I spent some time on dejanews last night searching on A36
headroom. I found that many pilots who are long in the torso have
complained about headroom. Sitting on the floor, I am about 39" from
floor to top of the head, which I guess makes me more like 6'5" / 6'6"
in terms of the headroom equation.

[john smith]

Nathan Young wrote:
> Exactly, I spent some time on dejanews last night searching on A36
> headroom. I found that many pilots who are long in the torso have
> complained about headroom. Sitting on the floor, I am about 39" from
> floor to top of the head, which I guess makes me more like 6'5" / 6'6"
> in terms of the headroom equation.

Your comment made me curious, so I just sat on the floor and measure my
butt-to-head length... 38 inches. I am 6'2". That extra inch gives me
the headset space.

[Matt Barrow]

"john smith" > wrote in message
...
> Nathan Young wrote:
> > Exactly, I spent some time on dejanews last night searching on A36
> > headroom. I found that many pilots who are long in the torso have
> > complained about headroom. Sitting on the floor, I am about 39" from
> > floor to top of the head, which I guess makes me more like 6'5" / 6'6"
> > in terms of the headroom equation.
>
> Your comment made me curious, so I just sat on the floor and measure my
> butt-to-head length... 38 inches. I am 6'2". That extra inch gives me
> the headset space.

I'm 6'1" and long in the legs...I have so much headroom, I can't see over
the dash.

[Victor J. Osborne, Jr.]

Can't get six in any Mooney.

--

Thx, {|;-)

Victor J. (Jim) Osborne, Jr.
"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Sounds like you need a Mooney, the perfect plane for a tall person. The
> Mooney was formed for tall people.
>
> -Robert, 6'4" Mooney owner
>

[Jon Kraus]

How often do you put 6 in any plane? It's been almost a year since I've
had 4 in the Mooney. Sure is nice cruising 160 kts on 9.5 gal a hour
though :-)

Jon Kraus
'79 Mooney 201

Victor J. Osborne, Jr. wrote:

> Can't get six in any Mooney.
>

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, "nobody" > said:
>Just FYI, the POH also allows operation of the airplane with the rear cargo
>doors removed.

Is that a common thing for 6 seaters for some reason? The POH for our
Lance says it can be operated with the rear door removed as well, and
except for somebody I met who did that once so that a photographer could
use his plane to take pictures of another plane, I don't see the point.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
You had me at
print("Hello World\n");

[Victor J. Osborne, Jr.]

I do it about bi-monthly, albeit two of the women are small. I've had 3
couples going to Nashville (BNA). The wives weren't 120lbs socking wet.
Now the guys, we're all well-fed farms boys. Take out some fuel and you
have the makings of a nice evening at the Opryland Hotel complex.

--

Thx, {|;-)

Victor J. (Jim) Osborne, Jr.
"Jon Kraus" > wrote in message
...
> How often do you put 6 in any plane? It's been almost a year since I've
> had 4 in the Mooney. Sure is nice cruising 160 kts on 9.5 gal a hour
> though :-)
>
> Jon Kraus
> '79 Mooney 201
>
> Victor J. Osborne, Jr. wrote:
>
>> Can't get six in any Mooney.
>>
>

[jsmith]

> In a previous article, "nobody" > said:
>>Just FYI, the POH also allows operation of the airplane with the rear cargo
>>doors removed.

Paul Tomblin wrote:
> Is that a common thing for 6 seaters for some reason? The POH for our
> Lance says it can be operated with the rear door removed as well, and
> except for somebody I met who did that once so that a photographer could
> use his plane to take pictures of another plane, I don't see the point.

Skydiving. It is somewhat more difficult to spot looking under the left
wing, though. I have a couple of jumps from a Cherokee Six.

[Nathan Young]

I started a thread a week ago on A36 pilot headroom. Unfortunately, I
have come to the conclusion that I do not fit in an A36. Any thoughts
on the 35 series or F33s? Same, better, worse? Any thoughts and
opinions would be much appreciated.

I know they are smaller planes than the A36, but I have found that wrt
to headroom - the only thing that matters is the measurement from the
seat to the headliner, which varies more than you would think from
plane to plane, regardless of overall appearance of cabin size.

Thanks,
Nathan



On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 17:33:16 GMT, Nathan Young
> wrote:

>I am looking at pruchasing an A36. I am 6'3" with a fair amount of my
>height in my torso. I sat in the A36 and found that my head hit the
>ceiling, even without a headset.
>Anyway, is there any way to adjust the seat height on a 1976 A36? The
>present owner did not think so.
>

[Robert M. Gary]

Don't pay insurance for 6 in a Mooney. :)

[Peter R.]

Nathan Young > wrote:

> I started a thread a week ago on A36 pilot headroom. Unfortunately, I
> have come to the conclusion that I do not fit in an A36. Any thoughts
> on the 35 series or F33s? Same, better, worse? Any thoughts and
> opinions would be much appreciated.

I fly a V35 and I would assume that the headroom would be similar to the
A36, due to the fact that the seat sits on the spar and there is no up&down
adjustment for the seat (only forward/backward adjustment for the seat and
rudder pedals).

In the A36, what was the measurement from the seat to the headliner? If I
can remember to bring a tape measure to my aircraft, I will measure this
distance in the V35 for you.

--
Peter
























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[john smith]

Is the spar on an 33/35 Travelair/Bonanza "smaller/less tall" than that
on an A/B36?
The underlying theory being lower gross weight requires less structure.

[Nathan Young]

On Mon, 27 Jun 2005 19:52:14 -0400, "Peter R."
> wrote:


>In the A36, what was the measurement from the seat to the headliner? If I
>can remember to bring a tape measure to my aircraft, I will measure this
>distance in the V35 for you.

My head was just touching the headliner, and I measure 39", so it must
be close to that. I fly a Cherokee now, and have not measured it,
will have to do so the next time I head to the airport.

[Peter R.]

john smith > wrote:

> Is the spar on an 33/35 Travelair/Bonanza "smaller/less tall" than that
> on an A/B36?
> The underlying theory being lower gross weight requires less structure.

I honestly do not know but I thought the spar might be similar across
models, certainly given the variety of models affected by the spar web
cracking fiasco that is going on now.

--
Peter


















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