A Glass Panel for my old airplane?

[Brenor Brophy]

Well my 1980 Skylane might not be exactly old by airplane standards, but its
panel is really showing its age. It has the original factory installed
avionics package, (Cessna ARC radios...).

I've been planning a major panel upgrade/replacement since I got the plane
two years ago. The current plan is a GNS480 GPS/NAV/COM, an SL30 for COM2,
and an S-TEC System 30 AP. I'll keep the old transponder. Then replace the
plastic covered panel with a new power coated metal panel as similiar as
possible to the newer Skylane panels. This would include moving the avionics
stack to the right to arrange the standard 6-pack centered on left seat
yoke. If I had any money left I was going to put electric AI and HI over the
right seat yoke (back-up for vac failure).

Well of course now the "new" Skylanes all come with G1000 glass panels and
I'm left wondering if I shouldn't try and get something similiar instead. So
here is what I've learned so far:

Garmin G1000 - only in new planes they won't sell it for an after market
install.
Avidyne FlightMax - In a bunch of new planes (Cirrus etc), but I can't find
anything saying there might be an STC to put it into a Skylane.
Chelton FlightLogic EFIS - Yes, there is an STC, but it will likely cost as
much as my entire plane is worth to have one installed.
Meggitt/S-Tec MAGIC - There was a mention in an S-Tec newsletter dated April
2001 that they were going to get an STC for the Skylane, but I can't find
any later mention about it.
Blue Mountain, Dynon & Chelton all have great low cost EFIS systems as long
as your aircraft is an Expermental.

So does anyone know of a good solution to get a glass panel in an old plane
and keep it certified without spending as much as the plane is worth?

-Brenor

[Darrel Toepfer]

Brenor Brophy wrote:

> Blue Mountain, Dynon & Chelton all have great low cost EFIS systems as long
> as your aircraft is an Expermental.
>
> So does anyone know of a good solution to get a glass panel in an old plane
> and keep it certified without spending as much as the plane is worth?

Jim Weir/RST Engineering, needs to produce a kit version...

Otherwise look at the PDA/PC versions you can install yourself...

http://www.pocketfms.com is free...

[Ben Hallert]

I read an article on AVWeb that might be of value to you. It discusses
pros/cons of the exact upgrade you're considering, and urges the reader
to ask/answer some questions during the decision process that could be
very handy.

http://www.avweb.com/news/usedacft/189882-1.html

Regards,

Ben Hallert
PP-ASEL

[Dave Butler]

Brenor Brophy wrote:
> If I had any money left I was going to put electric AI and HI over the
> right seat yoke (back-up for vac failure).

Without addressing your main question... don't waste money on instruments at the
copilot position unless you frequently fly with a copilot who will use them. For
the left-seat pilot to use in an emergency, they are just too far out of your scan.

This is based on my experience with an electric AI on the copilot side. As we're
about to do a panel upgrade, one of the changes we will make is to move the
electric AI into the hole to the left of the radio stack formerly occupied by
the ADF indicator.

Dave

[Ron Natalie]

Brenor Brophy wrote:
> Well my 1980 Skylane might not be exactly old by airplane standards, but its
> panel is really showing its age. It has the original factory installed
> avionics package, (Cessna ARC radios...).
>
> I've been planning a major panel upgrade/replacement since I got the plane
> two years ago. The current plan is a GNS480 GPS/NAV/COM, an SL30 for COM2,
> and an S-TEC System 30 AP.

I came to the same realization you did.

I've got an MX20, GNS480, GDL69A, SL30, GTX33, and STEC 55X and a
traditional steam guage King HSI in my Navion. I could have gone
with an Sandel HSI, but didn't see why I needed another display.

[john smith]

Ron Natalie wrote:
> I came to the same realization you did.
> I've got an MX20, GNS480, GDL69A, SL30, GTX33, and STEC 55X and a
> traditional steam guage King HSI in my Navion. I could have gone
> with an Sandel HSI, but didn't see why I needed another display.

And it will all be on display in one week in the Vintage section at
AirVenture!

[Ron Natalie]

john smith wrote:
> Ron Natalie wrote:
>
>> I came to the same realization you did.
>> I've got an MX20, GNS480, GDL69A, SL30, GTX33, and STEC 55X and a
>> traditional steam guage King HSI in my Navion. I could have gone
>> with an Sandel HSI, but didn't see why I needed another display.
>
>
> And it will all be on display in one week in the Vintage section at
> AirVenture!

Yes, we should be arriving Friday afternoon (if all goes well) and
staying through the end of the show.

[Roger]

On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 04:16:47 -0400, Ron Natalie >
wrote:

>Brenor Brophy wrote:
>> Well my 1980 Skylane might not be exactly old by airplane standards, but its
>> panel is really showing its age. It has the original factory installed
>> avionics package, (Cessna ARC radios...).
>>
>> I've been planning a major panel upgrade/replacement since I got the plane
>> two years ago. The current plan is a GNS480 GPS/NAV/COM, an SL30 for COM2,
>> and an S-TEC System 30 AP.
>
>I came to the same realization you did.
>

I have a complete Silver Crown stack including the KNS80 RNAV and
digital ADF, but they are getting kinda shabby although they still
work well. The panel is a non standard layout and should be changed,
but it actually is easier to fly partial panel than the standard "T".

>I've got an MX20, GNS480, GDL69A, SL30, GTX33, and STEC 55X and a

I wear bifocals and find the 480 display to be a bit on the small
side. I'd really like the new MFDs, but I'd easily pass the value of
the airplane in the panel not counting labor or some of the sensors
I'd need to purchase.

Still... were I 20 years younger I'd put in a full glass panel. The
air frame is low time. It's the ideal airplane for me, and I'd not be
concerned about a rapid return on my investment.

>traditional steam guage King HSI in my Navion. I could have gone
>with an Sandel HSI, but didn't see why I needed another display.

What I'm probably going to end up doing is getting a 396, a backup
electric AI, and convert the panel to a standard lay-out <:-))
Although I'd sure like to have an HSI coupled to the S-Tec 50 AP
that's already there.

I might make Oshkosh for a day, late in the week if the weather is not
too hot. If I did that I should keep right on heading for Minneapolis
and have the tip tanks replaced. They're old and I was offered a good
trade to replace them with new ones with strobes. As I already have
strobes top and bottom (no rotating position light) it'd look like a
flying Christmas tree.<:-))

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

[Roger]

On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 07:35:16 -0500, Darrel Toepfer
> wrote:

>Brenor Brophy wrote:
>
>> Blue Mountain, Dynon & Chelton all have great low cost EFIS systems as long
>> as your aircraft is an Expermental.
>>
>> So does anyone know of a good solution to get a glass panel in an old plane
>> and keep it certified without spending as much as the plane is worth?
>
>Jim Weir/RST Engineering, needs to produce a kit version...
>
>Otherwise look at the PDA/PC versions you can install yourself...

I haven't seen a PDA version of anything in the cockpit that was
useful for me. They are just too small. Add to that a bumpy ride and
they are darn near impossible to read and change settings. Even the
295 I'm using now is difficult to change way points on a rough ride.

Between the 396 (kinda small) and the tablet PC versions you can spend
between $2500 and about $5000. and you are not locked into a specific
panel design. $3500 to $5000 doesn't sound cheap until you start
comparing that to panel mount equivalents.

Of course if you want a pair of Garmin MFDs you can probably get it
done and installed for around $75,000.

What I'd like is a Tablet PC that does everything the 396 does, or a
396 with a tablet PC display. <:-))

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
>
>http://www.pocketfms.com is free...