Digital OAT

[Jim Burns]

Does anybody in the group have a digital OAT indicator?

We've just put a new single piece windshield in our plane and moved the
standard OAT gauge to the pilot's side window. Now we've decided to put all
new 1/4" side windows in and rather than drilling a hole through a brand new
window, I'd like to consider one of the digital OAT's such as Davtron or EI.
I'm wondering exactly how they are installed and where the temp probe is
located.

Thanks,
Jim

[Newps]

I ditched my Cessna juice cans when I got the new STC'd air vents from
Sporty's. I already had an EI US8A engine monitor with two unised
channels. I added OAT and Carb temp. The OAT probe is in the left wing
mounted in the inspection plate just outboard of the strut. It's been
there for five years now with nary a complaint.



Jim Burns wrote:
> Does anybody in the group have a digital OAT indicator?
>
> We've just put a new single piece windshield in our plane and moved the
> standard OAT gauge to the pilot's side window. Now we've decided to put all
> new 1/4" side windows in and rather than drilling a hole through a brand new
> window, I'd like to consider one of the digital OAT's such as Davtron or EI.
> I'm wondering exactly how they are installed and where the temp probe is
> located.
>
> Thanks,
> Jim
>
>

[Paul kgyy]

The JPI engine analyzer comes with one included, if you're considering
that.

[Thomas Borchert]

Jim,

> I'd like to consider one of the digital OAT's such as Davtron
>

We have a Davtron probe, displaying on the Garmin GTX 300 transponder.
Nice, but the Garmin software is missing an option to calibrate the
temperature, so ours is indicating 3 degrees C too warm. Garmin says
that's about the tolerance of the probes, but it would be really easy
to have an offset in the software. Oh well...

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Jim Burns]

Paul, you're just spooky! Just this minute I had JPI's page pulled up
looking at their EDM 760 Twin. I figured out that I simply wouldn't be
happy without the fuel flow transducers and that pushes the price up to
$6700. For now, I think I just want to get the windows done and ad a simple
digital OAT.
Jim

"Paul kgyy" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> The JPI engine analyzer comes with one included, if you're considering
> that.
>

[Paul kgyy]

The fuel flow is worth the money, particularly if you can connect it to
a panel GPS to get automatic calculation of fuel remaining at arrival.
The new JPI also computes miles per gallon on the fly, a great way to
check most economical power and altitudes. :-~

[Denny]

Makes me wonder how Lindy made it to France... Now, not that I'm agin'
gadgets, actually I love em... But, if you start with the tank(s) full
and you have a watch, you have all the equipment that aviators have
used to calculater remaining fuel since Wil-n-Orv started the whole
ball rolling...
Let's say that having the fuel flow meter allows you to improve your
fuel burn by 3% overall... How many decades is that to generate a net
return on the cost for the flow meters?

denny

[RST Engineering]

Let's pick that figure of 3% and do the calculation. Average owner-flown
aircraft is something on the order of 130 hours a year. Just for grins,
let's pick a round number of 10 gallons per hour at the national average
(right now) of $3.35 a gallon. That's $4355 of fuel a year. Times 0.03 is
around $130 a year. I doubt it will be decades.

Jim



> Let's say that having the fuel flow meter allows you to improve your
> fuel burn by 3% overall... How many decades is that to generate a net
> return on the cost for the flow meters?
>
> denny
>

[Jim Burns]

Hmm... now multiply that out by our Aztec figures of 300 hours per year and
25 gph and I come up with $750 per year saved. Add installation price to
the JPI EDM 760 Twin and break even comes close to 10 years, BUT I'd get all
that additional engine operating information that may save some more serious
money via better engine monitoring. Thanks Jim... no somebody slap me...
all I want is a digital OAT!! focus! focus! Gosh this is hard. ;)
Jim

[nrp]

And it doesn't do much good if the tanks are not completely full to
start with.............

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
"Jim Burns" > wrote:

> Does anybody in the group have a digital OAT indicator?
>
> We've just put a new single piece windshield in our plane and moved the
> standard OAT gauge to the pilot's side window. Now we've decided to put all
> new 1/4" side windows in and rather than drilling a hole through a brand new
> window, I'd like to consider one of the digital OAT's such as Davtron or EI.
> I'm wondering exactly how they are installed and where the temp probe is
> located.
>
> Thanks,
> Jim

I put a Davtron M303 in my cherokee 140. The temp probe was installed
on the pilot side of the fuselage just aft of the cowling. In my case I removed
a non-functioning hobbs meter and put in the round OAT display. I chose
to install a digital OAT probe because I just replaced the windshields on
my cherokee and didn't feel like putting back the thing that caused stress
factures in the "glass"

--
Bob Noel
no one likes an educated mule

[Jim Burns]

Thanks Bob,
Can you describe the probe please? How big is it, how far outside the skin
does it extend? We've got un-used radio cooling "scoops" that extend
outwards along the sides of our nose and I was hopeing to install the probe
on the back of this panel placing the probe inside the scoop to protect it
from "the cleaning lady".
Jim

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
"Jim Burns" > wrote:

> Thanks Bob,
> Can you describe the probe please? How big is it, how far outside the skin
> does it extend? We've got un-used radio cooling "scoops" that extend
> outwards along the sides of our nose and I was hopeing to install the probe
> on the back of this panel placing the probe inside the scoop to protect it
> from "the cleaning lady".
> Jim

um, it's about 1" long and a little less than 1/4" in diameter.

Let me go over to the airplane Saturday and I'll take a measurement
of the length.

--
Bob Noel
no one likes an educated mule

[Jim Burns]

Thanks. No need to go to any extra trouble, I think we could also put it
directly in front of the windshield by reaching up through the side panels
on the nose, that way it will get good ram air blowing on it and won't have
any restrictions that could build up ice around it.
Thanks!
Jim

"Bob Noel" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Jim Burns" > wrote:
>
> > Thanks Bob,
> > Can you describe the probe please? How big is it, how far outside the
skin
> > does it extend? We've got un-used radio cooling "scoops" that extend
> > outwards along the sides of our nose and I was hopeing to install the
probe
> > on the back of this panel placing the probe inside the scoop to protect
it
> > from "the cleaning lady".
> > Jim
>
> um, it's about 1" long and a little less than 1/4" in diameter.
>
> Let me go over to the airplane Saturday and I'll take a measurement
> of the length.
>
> --
> Bob Noel
> no one likes an educated mule
>

[Newps]

Paul kgyy wrote:
> The JPI engine analyzer comes with one included, if you're considering
> that.

A JPI? Never.

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
"Jim Burns" > wrote:

> Thanks. No need to go to any extra trouble,

It is NEVER extra trouble to go over to my airplane
(besides, it's only 7 miles from my house).

--
Bob Noel
no one likes an educated mule

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
Bob Noel > wrote:

> > Thanks. No need to go to any extra trouble,
>
> It is NEVER extra trouble to go over to my airplane
> (besides, it's only 7 miles from my house).

The probe is slightly less than 1.25" long, but longer than 1 3/16 inches.

--
Bob Noel
no one likes an educated mule

[Jack Allison]

Hey Jim...we installed a Davtron in the Arrow. OAT probe is in the
middle of an inspection panel on the bottom of the left wing. IIRC,
it's the forward most panel and the first one from the bottom of the
fuselage. The Davtron works great. Way easier than trying to read the
old OAT in the windshield.


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student
Arrow N2104T

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[Jack Allison]

Slap! Hey, you asked for it. Repeat after me Jim, "Digital
OAT...Digital OAT...all I want is a Digital OAT".


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student
Arrow N2104T

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[George Patterson]

Jim Burns wrote:
> Does anybody in the group have a digital OAT indicator?
>
> We've just put a new single piece windshield in our plane and moved the
> standard OAT gauge to the pilot's side window. Now we've decided to put all
> new 1/4" side windows in and rather than drilling a hole through a brand new
> window, I'd like to consider one of the digital OAT's such as Davtron or EI.
> I'm wondering exactly how they are installed and where the temp probe is
> located.

I put a Davtron in my Maule. I drilled a hole in the side of the cabin just
behind the cowl for the temperature probe. I placed in in a stripe so it would
be unobtrusive. Drilling through the cabin side allowed me to avoid running a
wire through the firewall.

I came off the main electrical buss with a 1/2 amp breaker and 22 gauge wire to
the gauge. My Maule had plenty of spare holes in the panel, so I just popped the
gauge in one. Did the work under supervision. The local FSDO required a field
inspection (no big deal). The breaker needs a label.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

[Jack Allison]

Jim Burns wrote:
> To mount our display in the panel, 6 feet
> wouldn't be enough to get it out past the engine nacelles if we tried to put
> it in wing inspection panel.

Oh ya, you got one of them funny planes with engines on both sides of you!

I was curious as to where they'd mount our OAT probe and when I found it
thought "Well, that makes perfect sense". If you do get a Davtron and
figure out how the flight timer function works, let me know. The
elapsed timer works fine but I've yet to figure out the button sequence
to get the flight timer (the one that can count up/down for approaches
and such...I think it's the "FT") to work. Strange because I can
usually figure these out even if I don't have an instruction manual.
Read the short Davtron manual and I come away with the feeling that I'm
just missing something when it comes to the FT function.

The Davtron was our first official upgrade for the Arrow. It was nice
to get rid of the inoperative analog clock in the dash and have OAT at
the push of a button.

Are you going to be at OSH and/or Jay and Mary's pre-OSH bash?


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student
Arrow N2104T

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[Jim Burns]

Gottchya... That'll work fine right up on the top of the nose infront of the
windshield.
Thanks
Jim

"Bob Noel" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Bob Noel > wrote:
>
> > > Thanks. No need to go to any extra trouble,
> >
> > It is NEVER extra trouble to go over to my airplane
> > (besides, it's only 7 miles from my house).
>
> The probe is slightly less than 1.25" long, but longer than 1 3/16 inches.
>
> --
> Bob Noel
> no one likes an educated mule
>

[Jim Burns]

Thanks Jack,
I think it comes with a 6 foot cable, so I think it's gonna work fine right
up infront of the windshield. To mount our display in the panel, 6 feet
wouldn't be enough to get it out past the engine nacelles if we tried to put
it in wing inspection panel.
Jim

"Jack Allison" > wrote in message
...
> Hey Jim...we installed a Davtron in the Arrow. OAT probe is in the
> middle of an inspection panel on the bottom of the left wing. IIRC,
> it's the forward most panel and the first one from the bottom of the
> fuselage. The Davtron works great. Way easier than trying to read the
> old OAT in the windshield.
>
>
> --
> Jack Allison
> PP-ASEL-IA Student
> Arrow N2104T
>
> "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
> with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
> you will always long to return"
> - Leonardo Da Vinci
>
> (Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[Jay Honeck]

> Hey Jim...we installed a Davtron in the Arrow. OAT probe is in the middle
> of an inspection panel on the bottom of the left wing. IIRC, it's the
> forward most panel and the first one from the bottom of the fuselage.

Hey -- that's a great idea. No holes drilled in the side, no wires through
the firewall!

Uh oh -- a new doohickey to get at OSH!

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jim Burns]

Sorry, can't help you with the Davtron clock, we've just got a AstroTech L2
that drives us crazy enough. Sometime I'll have to let you help us change
the battery in that thing! With ours you have to keep punching the mode
button until you're cussing in about 4 languages to get 00:00:00 to come up,
then hit ST/SP.

I think aircraft clocks were one of those inventions that some bunch of
smart*ss engineers made over complicated out of jealously, they all really
wanted to be pilots but couldn't get passed the whole Bernoulli thing, so
they made these aircraft clocks just to **** us off.

Yep, I'll be at the RAP party at OSH. I'll be playing Montblack's chauffer,
driving him around to buy load of fud. Another partner in our Aztec has
also taken the day off from work, and my wife will also be there.

Jim

"Jack Allison" > wrote in message
...
> Jim Burns wrote:
> > To mount our display in the panel, 6 feet
> > wouldn't be enough to get it out past the engine nacelles if we tried to
put
> > it in wing inspection panel.
>
> Oh ya, you got one of them funny planes with engines on both sides of you!
>
> I was curious as to where they'd mount our OAT probe and when I found it
> thought "Well, that makes perfect sense". If you do get a Davtron and
> figure out how the flight timer function works, let me know. The
> elapsed timer works fine but I've yet to figure out the button sequence
> to get the flight timer (the one that can count up/down for approaches
> and such...I think it's the "FT") to work. Strange because I can
> usually figure these out even if I don't have an instruction manual.
> Read the short Davtron manual and I come away with the feeling that I'm
> just missing something when it comes to the FT function.
>
> The Davtron was our first official upgrade for the Arrow. It was nice
> to get rid of the inoperative analog clock in the dash and have OAT at
> the push of a button.
>
> Are you going to be at OSH and/or Jay and Mary's pre-OSH bash?
>
>
> --
> Jack Allison
> PP-ASEL-IA Student
> Arrow N2104T
>
> "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
> with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
> you will always long to return"
> - Leonardo Da Vinci
>
> (Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[Bob Noel]

In article <d_fAe.156265$xm3.54248@attbi_s21>,
"Jay Honeck" > wrote:

> Hey -- that's a great idea. No holes drilled in the side, no wires through
> the firewall!
>
> Uh oh -- a new doohickey to get at OSH!

It's not worth it on its own, only when you need to move the OAT probe.

--
Bob Noel
no one likes an educated mule

[Jack Allison]

Jim Burns wrote:

> I think aircraft clocks were one of those inventions that some bunch of
> smart*ss engineers made over complicated out of jealously, they all really
> wanted to be pilots but couldn't get passed the whole Bernoulli thing, so
> they made these aircraft clocks just to **** us off.
Yep, gotta watch them engineers...hey, wait a sec, I R one. A software
guy though.

>
> Yep, I'll be at the RAP party at OSH. I'll be playing Montblack's chauffer,
> driving him around to buy load of fud.
Cool! Another name/face thing. You must be driving something bigger
than Paul's transmission-challenged minivan...or...we need a lot of fud.
Then again, maybe Paul just wants to feel important


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student
Arrow N2104T

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[Montblack]

("Jack Allison" wrote)
>> Yep, I'll be at the RAP party at OSH. I'll be playing Montblack's
>> chauffer,
>> driving him around to buy load of fud.

> Cool! Another name/face thing. You must be driving something bigger than
> Paul's transmission-challenged minivan...or...we need a lot of fud.


No-no. Jim in NC had the trani meltdown. The 94 Dodge minivan had (a few)
other issues last year - which eventually turned out being a water pump
meltdown and an O2 sensor meltdown - plus some other things. Minivan is much
happier this season. Of course cars always seem to run better on new tires
:-)


> Then again, maybe Paul just wants to feel important

Aztec Jim B has kindly offered to be the logistics guy (chauffeur). I can
only hope he'll wear the little black hat too <g>.

I'll try not launching into my Dudley Moore (Arthur - 1981) routine, while
being chauffeured about town.

Digging up fresh potatoes in Jim's fields for the (N40BBQ) should bring me
back to earth....


Montblack

[Jim Burns]

Don't worry Paul, we won't make you dig them.
My wife and I will take care of that on Tuesday. I was thinking that maybe
we'd have sweet corn, cucumbers, and green beans ready by that time also,
we'll have to see.
Jim

[Jay Honeck]

> My wife and I will take care of that on Tuesday. I was thinking that
> maybe
> we'd have sweet corn, cucumbers, and green beans ready by that time also,
> we'll have to see.

MMMMM...sweet corn. It's just coming "on-line" here in Iowa, and, God, it's
good.

Unfortunately, we're in a bit of a drought here, so it's not up to its usual
"unbelievable-oh-my-God-this-can't-be-corn" goodness (that we're accustomed
to here in Iowa) -- but it's still better than almost anything else.

If only I had room in Atlas to bring a coupla dozen ears...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Bob Noel]

In article <9e%Be.155743$x96.88270@attbi_s72>,
"Jay Honeck" > wrote:

> If only I had room in Atlas to bring a coupla dozen ears...

Sounds like you need a bigger airplane. :-)

--
Bob Noel
no one likes an educated mule

[Montblack]

("Bob Noel" wrote)
>> If only I had room in Atlas to bring a coupla dozen ears...

> Sounds like you need a bigger airplane. :-)


Luggage pods. You have hard points on those wings, don't you?

How about on-top luggage pods like the engines on that new Honda Jet? <g>

Belly pod on Dakota/Pathfinder? Anyone attempt something like this? Is there
room?

"Haul Anything - Plus" ....11


Montblack :-)
http://www.spinaltapfan.com/scripts/tist411.txt

Nigel: ...the numbers all go to eleven. Look...right across the board.

Marty: Ahh...oh, I see....
Nigel: Eleven...eleven...eleven....
Marty: ..and most of these amps go up to ten....
Nigel: Exactly.
Marty: Does that mean it's...louder? Is it any louder?

Nigel: Well, it's one louder, isn't it? It's not ten. You see,
most...most blokes, you know, will be playing at ten. You're on ten
here...all the way up...all the way up....

Marty: Yeah....
Nigel: ...all the way up. You're on ten on your guitar...where can
you go from there? Where?

Marty: I don't know....
Nigel: Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is if we need that extra...push
over the cliff...you know what we do?

Marty: Put it up to eleven.
Nigel: Eleven. Exactly. One louder.

Marty: Why don't you just make ten louder and make ten be the top...
number... and make that a little louder?

Nigel: These go to eleven.

[Doug]

I bought one of those digital ones that mount on a window for 60 bucks.
After fooling around with it and figuring out it's "error" (which is
from 5 to 9 degrees high), I can actually tell what the temperature is
outside. It's a great design, just needs a calibration knob. Has aan
extra battery, hit a switch if the main one fails. It uses hearing aide
batteries. Reads in degrees C or F.

[Jay Honeck]

> >> If only I had room in Atlas to bring a coupla dozen ears...
>
> > Sounds like you need a bigger airplane. :-)
>
> Luggage pods. You have hard points on those wings, don't you?
>
> How about on-top luggage pods like the engines on that new Honda Jet? <g>

Those are cool, no? Imagine the structure at the attachment points?
Must be some kind of incredibly strong hard points, for sure.

> Belly pod on Dakota/Pathfinder? Anyone attempt something like this? Is there
> room?

Not much room under the plane for a pod -- the gear isn't tall enough.
It's the only problem with having the same useful load as a Cherokee
Six -- we run out of space before we run out of payload capability.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[George Patterson]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>
> If only I had room in Atlas to bring a coupla dozen ears...

Get a tow hook, a fast glider, and a glider certificate for your son. He can
pilot your "trailer" all the way there. Release when over the airport.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

[Jay Honeck]

> Get a tow hook, a fast glider, and a glider certificate for your son. He
> can pilot your "trailer" all the way there. Release when over the airport.

I must admit, now that you mention it, that soaring is one segment of GA
that I have *never* seen represented at OSH.

I've seen a glider perform during the airshow, but never seen one "flown
in", as it were.

I wonder why?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[john smith]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> I've seen a glider perform during the airshow, but never seen one "flown
> in", as it were.

Gliders have the right of way over powered aircraft.
Let's say the Acme Glider Club decides to sponsor a group flyin to OSH.
They have a couple of tow planes to launch the 25 participants.
To make it to OSH from 25 miles away they need to break tow at say, 5000
AGL. It takes 15-20 minutes per glider. Three tow planes, 20 minutes
each, that's what... 9 gliders per hour. So it is going to take 3 hours
to launch all the gliders.
Let's say it takes each glider half an hour to fly the 25 miles to OSH.
To have sufficient lift, these flights must occur during the afternoon.
The airshow runs 3-5 pm.
Hmmm???
They must launch the last glider no later than 2 pm to allow for
deviations and recover before the airport is closed.
Keep in mind, you have all these people in powered aircraft converging
on RIPON, circling the lake, inbound from FISK, etc. And every 20
minutes, you are going to have to fit three gliders into the flow.
Also, you have the neophytes who are arriving for the first time and/or
those who never bothered to read the NOTAM.
As the Nationwide Insurance commercial says, "Life comes at you fast!"
Let us further suppose that those super OSH controllers do manage to
make it work. Now we have to move the gliders with their long wings out
of the way of the powered airplanes wanting to taxi in the grass.
Sure would be fun to watch!

[john smith]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> Not much room under the plane for a pod -- the gear isn't tall enough.
> It's the only problem with having the same useful load as a Cherokee
> Six -- we run out of space before we run out of payload capability.

Sure there is... you pump up the struts like they do on the Cherokee Six.

[Jay Honeck]

> Sure would be fun to watch!

For sure!

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[[email protected]]

Ok, I'll bite... I wanna do it!

Lets see... the ASK-21 from Colorado, a CAP tow plane... Yes,
the AirVan GA-8 will do fine... gotta figure out how to get
a tow hook on it... can't taxi on the ground, and I get only
one approach, so I'll have to have my own paragraph in the
Oshkosh Arrival NOTAM... they will need a year to get the paragraph
written (and the FAA to adopt it). Yes! This is doable!
Is there a qualified CAP tow pilot out there who wants to play?

I figure I'd assemble the glider at, say... Portage, fly high
over Oshkosh, arrange to arrive DURING the air show, and
position the ASK-21 in Aero-Shelll Square next to the other
CAP equipment.

Yes!!!!

Jay Honeck > wrote:
> > Get a tow hook, a fast glider, and a glider certificate for your son. He
> > can pilot your "trailer" all the way there. Release when over the airport.

> I must admit, now that you mention it, that soaring is one segment of GA
> that I have *never* seen represented at OSH.

> I've seen a glider perform during the airshow, but never seen one "flown
> in", as it were.

> I wonder why?


Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocation!" Eberhard

--
Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jer'at'frii.com WEB http://users.frii.com/jer/
C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider, FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot, BM218 HAM N0FZD, 231 Young Eagles!