Looking for 2 Piper Control Wheels (Ram's Horn)

[Mike Spera]

Tired of the ugly bow tie yokes (and the repetitive inspections). Anyone
have 2 ram's horn 1.125" yokes for sale? Piper P/N 79276-00V.
Thanks,
Mike

[Dave S]

Try a search for aircraft salvage yards...

www.asod.com for example.. (air salvage of dallas)

Dave

Mike Spera wrote:
> Tired of the ugly bow tie yokes (and the repetitive inspections). Anyone
> have 2 ram's horn 1.125" yokes for sale? Piper P/N 79276-00V.
> Thanks,
> Mike

[Bob Noel]

In article t>,
Mike Spera > wrote:

> Tired of the ugly bow tie yokes (and the repetitive inspections). Anyone
> have 2 ram's horn 1.125" yokes for sale? Piper P/N 79276-00V.
> Thanks,
> Mike

Back in 2002 I got a pair from Wentworth for my 140, and then
had the powdercoated by, iirc, Sanderson Aircraft.

Be prepared for the expense of the hardware and labor required
to install them. It was 19 hours to remove and replace, plus a
chunk of money for all the correct parts. Between the parts,
labor, yokes, and powdercoating, I think it was over $1500.

good luck

--
Bob Noel
no one likes an educated mule

[Mike Spera]

Bob Noel wrote:
> In article t>,
> Mike Spera > wrote:
>
>
>>Tired of the ugly bow tie yokes (and the repetitive inspections). Anyone
>>have 2 ram's horn 1.125" yokes for sale? Piper P/N 79276-00V.
>>Thanks,
>>Mike
>
>
> Back in 2002 I got a pair from Wentworth for my 140, and then
> had the powdercoated by, iirc, Sanderson Aircraft.
>
> Be prepared for the expense of the hardware and labor required
> to install them. It was 19 hours to remove and replace, plus a
> chunk of money for all the correct parts. Between the parts,
> labor, yokes, and powdercoating, I think it was over $1500.
>
> good luck
>
Bob,

What is involved other than swapping the yokes at the ends of the
control shafts?

Were you converting from one shaft size to another?

Thanks,
Mike

[Bob Noel]

In article . net>,
Mike Spera > wrote:

> > Back in 2002 I got a pair from Wentworth for my 140, and then
> > had the powdercoated by, iirc, Sanderson Aircraft.
> >
> > Be prepared for the expense of the hardware and labor required
> > to install them. It was 19 hours to remove and replace, plus a
> > chunk of money for all the correct parts. Between the parts,
> > labor, yokes, and powdercoating, I think it was over $1500.
> >
> > good luck
> >
> Bob,
>
> What is involved other than swapping the yokes at the ends of the
> control shafts?

Actually, it's kind of hard to just replace the plastic yoke. The part number
you specified in an assembly that includes the metal shaft and not just the yoke.
There is no separate part number for just the plastic bow-tie or rams horn yoke.
But if you can do it, that would be great because it'll save you a lot of money.

And now I finally remember why I had to do it (at least one anyway), it was
because one of the universal joints was worn beyond the service limit
and some moron had used a regular bolt instead of the tapered bolt.
So, in my case I had to replace the universals on one side anyway.

The universals are custom fit and blind drilled. It's probably unlikely
that the old universal will have the hole in the same place as the
replacement shaft. There is this special tapered bolt that has
to be fitted. I can't find my parts list that I used to order all the
stuff for the mechanic.

If you have access to the illustrated parts list, it's on page 3G16.

>
> Were you converting from one shaft size to another?

nope.

--
Bob Noel
no one likes an educated mule

[Mike Spera]

I see. The bowties have a drift pin (or bolt/nut - cannot remember)
through the plastic. Not sure if the ram's horns are attached via a
fastener. So, I think you are telling me that they drill the u-joint
hole last after all is aligned and that each plane gets the hole drilled
in a different place. Sounds kooky.

Does not really matter. The boneyards don't have these things and nobody
has actually done an STC on a reasonably priced alternative. I can live
with the bowties for a LOOOOOONG time when we are talking $1000+ for a
purely cosmetic upgrade.

Thanks,
Mike

Bob Noel wrote:
> In article . net>,
> Mike Spera > wrote:
>
>
>>>Back in 2002 I got a pair from Wentworth for my 140, and then
>>>had the powdercoated by, iirc, Sanderson Aircraft.
>>>
>>>Be prepared for the expense of the hardware and labor required
>>>to install them. It was 19 hours to remove and replace, plus a
>>>chunk of money for all the correct parts. Between the parts,
>>>labor, yokes, and powdercoating, I think it was over $1500.
>>>
>>>good luck
>>>
>>
>>Bob,
>>
>>What is involved other than swapping the yokes at the ends of the
>>control shafts?
>
>
> Actually, it's kind of hard to just replace the plastic yoke. The part number
> you specified in an assembly that includes the metal shaft and not just the yoke.
> There is no separate part number for just the plastic bow-tie or rams horn yoke.
> But if you can do it, that would be great because it'll save you a lot of money.
>
> And now I finally remember why I had to do it (at least one anyway), it was
> because one of the universal joints was worn beyond the service limit
> and some moron had used a regular bolt instead of the tapered bolt.
> So, in my case I had to replace the universals on one side anyway.
>
> The universals are custom fit and blind drilled. It's probably unlikely
> that the old universal will have the hole in the same place as the
> replacement shaft. There is this special tapered bolt that has
> to be fitted. I can't find my parts list that I used to order all the
> stuff for the mechanic.
>
> If you have access to the illustrated parts list, it's on page 3G16.
>
>
>>Were you converting from one shaft size to another?
>
>
> nope.
>

[Bob Noel]

In article .net>,
Mike Spera > wrote:

> I can live
> with the bowties for a LOOOOOONG time when we are talking $1000+ for a
> purely cosmetic upgrade.

I hope your bowties don't develop cracks. For me, that was the initial reason
for going down that expensive path.

--
Bob Noel
no one likes an educated mule

[Mike Spera]

No cracks in the bowties yet. Since my plane has only 2600 hours, I tend
to not have many of the "common" problems...yet.

I have always hated the way the bowties look. Gives the plane a "tinker
- toy" look.

Thanks,
Mike

Bob Noel wrote:
> In article .net>,
> Mike Spera > wrote:
>
>
>> I can live
>>with the bowties for a LOOOOOONG time when we are talking $1000+ for a
>>purely cosmetic upgrade.
>
>
> I hope your bowties don't develop cracks. For me, that was the initial reason
> for going down that expensive path.
>

[Bob Noel]

In article t>,
Mike Spera > wrote:

> No cracks in the bowties yet. Since my plane has only 2600 hours, I tend
> to not have many of the "common" problems...yet.

I hate to say this, but mine only had about 2313 hours on it (a '74 140).
However, what may have contributed to the cracks was the use of a
bungee cord as a gust lock - used for probably more than 10 years.

--
Bob Noel
no one likes an educated mule

[Chuck]

On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 22:24:09 GMT, Mike Spera >
wrote:

>Tired of the ugly bow tie yokes (and the repetitive inspections). Anyone
>have 2 ram's horn 1.125" yokes for sale? Piper P/N 79276-00V.
>Thanks,
>Mike


Mike,

I've been trying to replace the bow-tie yokes in my Cherokee 180 since
I bought it almost a year ago.

You shouldn't have too much trouble finding some for 1 & 1/8th inch
shafts -- I've found two or three used parts places that had them.
Try Stan at Faeth Aircraft Salvage 916-368-1832. He had a pair and
offered them to me for $150 a piece. My only problem is my Cherokee
has the older 3/4 inch shafts.

Only place that I found with the 3/4 inch shaft yokes wanted $995
EACH! I thanked him and let him know that he shouldn't hold them for
me...

Recently, I ran across someone selling Cherokee parts on eBay who told
me he can get 3/4 inch shaft yokes for $300 each with a 337 for
approval. I suspect that means a field approval which I'm not
interested in trying for. I've had a couple DERs and IAs tell me the
FAA informed them any incoming 337 will sit in an in-basket for at
least 90 days before being looked at. And of course, 9/10s of the FAA
people are so obsessed with covering their butts -- they won't approve
water to put out a fire. So, unless its an approved, PMAed, or STCed
part -- I'm not interested.

Good luck Mike. And send a post back if you want the names of the
other companies. Like I said -- they all had 1 & 1/8 shafts, so
they're no use to me...


Chuck

[Mike Spera]

Chuck,

Thanks. I'll give them a call.
Mike
> On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 22:24:09 GMT, Mike Spera >
> wrote:
>
>
>>Tired of the ugly bow tie yokes (and the repetitive inspections). Anyone
>>have 2 ram's horn 1.125" yokes for sale? Piper P/N 79276-00V.
>>Thanks,
>>Mike
>
>
>
> Mike,
>
> I've been trying to replace the bow-tie yokes in my Cherokee 180 since
> I bought it almost a year ago.
>
> You shouldn't have too much trouble finding some for 1 & 1/8th inch
> shafts -- I've found two or three used parts places that had them.
> Try Stan at Faeth Aircraft Salvage 916-368-1832. He had a pair and
> offered them to me for $150 a piece. My only problem is my Cherokee
> has the older 3/4 inch shafts.
>
> Only place that I found with the 3/4 inch shaft yokes wanted $995
> EACH! I thanked him and let him know that he shouldn't hold them for
> me...
>
> Recently, I ran across someone selling Cherokee parts on eBay who told
> me he can get 3/4 inch shaft yokes for $300 each with a 337 for
> approval. I suspect that means a field approval which I'm not
> interested in trying for. I've had a couple DERs and IAs tell me the
> FAA informed them any incoming 337 will sit in an in-basket for at
> least 90 days before being looked at. And of course, 9/10s of the FAA
> people are so obsessed with covering their butts -- they won't approve
> water to put out a fire. So, unless its an approved, PMAed, or STCed
> part -- I'm not interested.
>
> Good luck Mike. And send a post back if you want the names of the
> other companies. Like I said -- they all had 1 & 1/8 shafts, so
> they're no use to me...
>
>
> Chuck
>

[George Patterson]

Chuck wrote:
>
> Good luck Mike. And send a post back if you want the names of the
> other companies. Like I said -- they all had 1 & 1/8 shafts, so
> they're no use to me...

You should be able to sleeve the larger yokes down to 3/4".

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

[Chuck]

On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 03:05:56 GMT, George Patterson
> wrote:

>Chuck wrote:
>>
>> Good luck Mike. And send a post back if you want the names of the
>> other companies. Like I said -- they all had 1 & 1/8 shafts, so
>> they're no use to me...
>
>You should be able to sleeve the larger yokes down to 3/4".
>
>George Patterson
> Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
> use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

Hi George,

You're probably right -- sleeving the inside of the 1&1/8 yokes to fit
my 3/4 inch shafts shouldn't be too difficult a challenge. But doing
that would require a 337 Field Approval. And that's what I'm trying
to avoid.

As I mentioned, several IAs and DEs have told me that a Field Approval
-- it if can be obtained at all -- will take at least six months. One
DE in Austin told me he's had a 337 pending for 14 months for a simple
GPS antenna mount on the top the cabin. What a joke.

So, I'll go on a while looking for certified 3/4 inch yokes I can put
on without a Field Approval. And if I can't find that -- I'll go the
Field Approval route.


Chuck

[[email protected]]

Chuck > wrote:
: As I mentioned, several IAs and DEs have told me that a Field Approval
: -- it if can be obtained at all -- will take at least six months. One
: DE in Austin told me he's had a 337 pending for 14 months for a simple
: GPS antenna mount on the top the cabin. What a joke.

There we go... "The FAA: Keeping the world safe for bureaucracy"

Between that and the CYA seemingly required for absolutely everything in
aviation, it's basically impossible/unaffordable to do anything.

-Cory
--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

[Mike Spera]

O.K. I bought a couple of units from Faeth. Slight problem. One has a
reported bent shaft and the other has "bad chrome" on the shaft.

Has anyone swapped the wheels themselves from bowtie to ram's horn (same
shaft size)? There appears to be a special pin in the bow ties and they
also look to be epoxied on. Is removal from the shaft even approved? Or
is this a "factory only" one-time operation that cannot be repeated? How
are the ram's horn wheels secured? Do you have to destroy the bowtie to
get it off?

Anyone swapped the control wheels only?

Thanks,
Mike

> Chuck wrote:
>
>>
>> Good luck Mike. And send a post back if you want the names of the
>> other companies. Like I said -- they all had 1 & 1/8 shafts, so
>> they're no use to me...
>
>
> You should be able to sleeve the larger yokes down to 3/4".
>
> George Patterson
> Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
> use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

[Chuck]

Shafts???? I thought you were only replacing the yokes -- why spend
the extra cash on the shafts?

Well, if you do need the shafts -- you can get the on with the chrome
problem re-chromed. If you can't find a finishing shop around, see
any competent gunsmith. Don't let him talk you into any of the newer,
fancy coatings/finishes. You need to replace the chrome with the same
so its still "factory".

And as far as replacing them -- I can't help there. Haven't found any
3/4 inch shaft yokes yet -- so have no idea the magnitude of the job.

Good luck Mike. And let us know how it goes...


Chuck



On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 02:14:29 GMT, Mike Spera >
wrote:

>
>O.K. I bought a couple of units from Faeth. Slight problem. One has a
>reported bent shaft and the other has "bad chrome" on the shaft.
>
>Has anyone swapped the wheels themselves from bowtie to ram's horn (same
>shaft size)? There appears to be a special pin in the bow ties and they
>also look to be epoxied on. Is removal from the shaft even approved? Or
>is this a "factory only" one-time operation that cannot be repeated? How
>are the ram's horn wheels secured? Do you have to destroy the bowtie to
>get it off?
>
>Anyone swapped the control wheels only?
>
>Thanks,
>Mike
>
>> Chuck wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Good luck Mike. And send a post back if you want the names of the
>>> other companies. Like I said -- they all had 1 & 1/8 shafts, so
>>> they're no use to me...
>>
>>
>> You should be able to sleeve the larger yokes down to 3/4".
>>
>> George Patterson
>> Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
>> use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

[Mike Spera]

Well, I would like to replace the yokes only and use the shafts I have
in there already because they are in perfect condition. The shafts
attached to the yokes from the recycler are both shot.

My original question still stands: can you remove the yokes from their
shafts and remount them. If so, I can swap the yokes I just bought with
the shafts in the plane that are now attached to the original bow ties.
As I said, the bow ties look to be pinned and epoxied. The aluminum ram
horns I just bought look to be pinned and possibly sweated on or pressed
on. Is there an approved procedure to remove and remount these
yokes??????? What is the "pin" that is used. It does not look like any
AN hardware I have ever seen.

If I can indeed swap them, I will send the ram's horns out for
recoating. If I cannot remove/remount the ram's horns, I will return
them to the recycler because they will be junk.

Thanks,
Mike

Chuck wrote:
> Shafts???? I thought you were only replacing the yokes -- why spend
> the extra cash on the shafts?
>
> Well, if you do need the shafts -- you can get the on with the chrome
> problem re-chromed. If you can't find a finishing shop around, see
> any competent gunsmith. Don't let him talk you into any of the newer,
> fancy coatings/finishes. You need to replace the chrome with the same
> so its still "factory".
>
> And as far as replacing them -- I can't help there. Haven't found any
> 3/4 inch shaft yokes yet -- so have no idea the magnitude of the job.
>
> Good luck Mike. And let us know how it goes...
>
>
> Chuck
>
>
>
> On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 02:14:29 GMT, Mike Spera >
> wrote:
>
>
>>O.K. I bought a couple of units from Faeth. Slight problem. One has a
>>reported bent shaft and the other has "bad chrome" on the shaft.
>>
>>Has anyone swapped the wheels themselves from bowtie to ram's horn (same
>>shaft size)? There appears to be a special pin in the bow ties and they
>>also look to be epoxied on. Is removal from the shaft even approved? Or
>>is this a "factory only" one-time operation that cannot be repeated? How
>>are the ram's horn wheels secured? Do you have to destroy the bowtie to
>>get it off?
>>
>>Anyone swapped the control wheels only?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Mike
>>
>>
>>>Chuck wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Good luck Mike. And send a post back if you want the names of the
>>>>other companies. Like I said -- they all had 1 & 1/8 shafts, so
>>>>they're no use to me...
>>>
>>>
>>>You should be able to sleeve the larger yokes down to 3/4".
>>>
>>>George Patterson
>>> Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
>>> use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.
>
>