Piper SB No 836 (alluminum wire replacement)

[Mike Noel]

I need to replace the aluminum wiring in my Archer with new copper cables.
Spruce is selling Bogart replacement cables for $289 which seems a bit steep
for the amount of cable and connectors involved. I understand Piper has a
description of the parts and technique for doing the replacement, but my
service manual doesn't seem to mention it and I haven't found the SB or a
description of the procedure on-line. Any suggestions are appreciated.

Best Regards,
Mike.

Mike,

Try American Aviation, 405-354-7136 or 404-232-2607. They have STC'd
kits for PA-28s for $115/2 ga and $145/1 ga. I used the 2ga kit in my
PA-28-140 and had no problems in either the install or performance.

Mike Bednarek


"Mike Noel" > wrote in message
...
> I need to replace the aluminum wiring in my Archer with new copper cables.
> Spruce is selling Bogart replacement cables for $289 which seems a bit
steep
> for the amount of cable and connectors involved. I understand Piper has a
> description of the parts and technique for doing the replacement, but my
> service manual doesn't seem to mention it and I haven't found the SB or a
> description of the procedure on-line. Any suggestions are appreciated.
>
> Best Regards,
> Mike.
>
>

[[email protected]]

wrote:
: Mike,

: Try American Aviation, 405-354-7136 or 404-232-2607. They have STC'd
: kits for PA-28s for $115/2 ga and $145/1 ga. I used the 2ga kit in my
: PA-28-140 and had no problems in either the install or performance.

: Mike Bednarek

Why does wire replacement have to have an STC? I would think that replacing
Al wires for Cu wires would fall under the normal AC43 guidelines. So long as the
current capacity is within spec, wires are of proper type (insulation, etc), and ends
are fabricated according to proper practices, it's simply preventative maintenance.

What am I missing? Although for $115, it sounds like a pretty good deal....
I'd imagine 10-20 feet of #2 AWG aircraft wire is a pretty sizeable chunk of that
cost, let-alone the aircraft lugs and crimpers to put them on.

-Cory


--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

[Denny]

Why does wire replacement have to have an STC?
************************************************** *********
Changes the weight and balance of the airframe...

denny

[[email protected]]

Denny > wrote:
: Why does wire replacement have to have an STC?
: ************************************************** *********
: Changes the weight and balance of the airframe...

I was thinking that, but I thought that there were situations where
empty W&B change didn't require a 337. Now that I read through it, I can see the
interpretation differently. One example that comes to mind is installing a
lightweight starter. It's got a PMA, so it's a drop-in replacement for the original.
It also takes 9 lbs off the nose (of my bird at least), so it requires a W&B.

All I can say is that if you cannot get your local FSDO to approve a 337 for
replacing Al wires with Cu wires according to AC43 and a W&B change, it's time to
send them some hate mail and/or move.

-Cory


--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

[Newps]

wrote:

One example that comes to mind is installing a
> lightweight starter. It's got a PMA, so it's a drop-in replacement for the original.
> It also takes 9 lbs off the nose (of my bird at least), so it requires a W&B.

Last time I read the reg a W+B is only required by FAR when the weight
change is 1% of the gross weight of the aircraft.

[John Kunkel]

"Mike Noel" > wrote in message
...
>I need to replace the aluminum wiring in my Archer with new copper cables.
> Spruce is selling Bogart replacement cables for $289 which seems a bit
> steep
> for the amount of cable and connectors involved. I understand Piper has a
> description of the parts and technique for doing the replacement, but my
> service manual doesn't seem to mention it and I haven't found the SB or a
> description of the procedure on-line. Any suggestions are appreciated.

My service manual (page 4D1) states that the #1 aluminum wire can be
replaced by #3 copper by following procedures in 43-13.

No STC or kit needed, just get some wire and terminals and do it by the
book.

Cory,

Yes, you can replace the cables on your own (via FAA Mechanic) using all
the appropriate materials (cable, connector's, etc.) without an STC.
However, my understanding is that the STC was obtained to allow them to
manufacture and sell the complete kit (with all the connector already
assembled).

Mike


> wrote in message
...
> wrote:
> : Mike,
>
> : Try American Aviation, 405-354-7136 or 404-232-2607. They have
STC'd
> : kits for PA-28s for $115/2 ga and $145/1 ga. I used the 2ga kit in my
> : PA-28-140 and had no problems in either the install or performance.
>
> : Mike Bednarek
>
> Why does wire replacement have to have an STC? I would think that
replacing
> Al wires for Cu wires would fall under the normal AC43 guidelines. So
long as the
> current capacity is within spec, wires are of proper type (insulation,
etc), and ends
> are fabricated according to proper practices, it's simply preventative
maintenance.
>
> What am I missing? Although for $115, it sounds like a pretty good
deal....
> I'd imagine 10-20 feet of #2 AWG aircraft wire is a pretty sizeable chunk
of that
> cost, let-alone the aircraft lugs and crimpers to put them on.
>
> -Cory
>
>
> --
>
> ************************************************** ***********************
> * Cory Papenfuss *
> * Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
> * Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
> ************************************************** ***********************
>

[[email protected]]

wrote:
: Cory,

: Yes, you can replace the cables on your own (via FAA Mechanic) using all
: the appropriate materials (cable, connector's, etc.) without an STC.
: However, my understanding is that the STC was obtained to allow them to
: manufacture and sell the complete kit (with all the connector already
: assembled).

: Mike

OK... that's what I was hoping. Seems silly to not be able to do it according to approved procedures and
materials without an STC. Probably easier for most to get the kit pre-assembled, but for some, not involving the FSDO
with an 337 might be easier.

-Cory


--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

[Mike Noel]

OK, thanks to all who replied. I ordered a 2 gauge kit from American
Aviation for $115. He's nice enough to send the STC PMA kit postpaid and
trust me to send him the money on receipt.
> wrote in message
.. .
> Mike,
>
> Try American Aviation, 405-354-7136 or 404-232-2607. They have STC'd
> kits for PA-28s for $115/2 ga and $145/1 ga. I used the 2ga kit in my
> PA-28-140 and had no problems in either the install or performance.
>
> Mike Bednarek
>
>
> "Mike Noel" > wrote in message
> ...
> > I need to replace the aluminum wiring in my Archer with new copper
cables.
> > Spruce is selling Bogart replacement cables for $289 which seems a bit
> steep
> > for the amount of cable and connectors involved. I understand Piper has
a
> > description of the parts and technique for doing the replacement, but my
> > service manual doesn't seem to mention it and I haven't found the SB or
a
> > description of the procedure on-line. Any suggestions are appreciated.
> >
> > Best Regards,
> > Mike.
> >
> >
>
>

[[email protected]]

Strictly speaking, the change of wiring is a change to the type
certificate.

You could deem it a minor modification and do it with a log book entry.

You would be ok unless somewhere down the line someone wanted to debate
the point.

Then the $115 would look pretty cheap.

Bill Hale

[nuke]

In article >,
"John Kunkel" > wrote:

> "Mike Noel" > wrote in message
> ...
> My service manual (page 4D1) states that the #1 aluminum wire can be
> replaced by #3 copper by following procedures in 43-13.
>
> No STC or kit needed, just get some wire and terminals and do it by the
> book.

You *can* change the wiring per the SB836, but because the approved data
is the SB and maintenance manual, but may *only* use the materials
specified in the SB or maintenance manual.

Go ahead and try to find exactly the specified wire and particular
terminal numbers. Some of them are next to impossible to find,
especially in qty 1 each.

The Bogert cables are pricey. American Aviation has an STC kit that is
about $130, which went on my Cherokee over the winter while my engine
was being overhauled.

You could barely buy the wire and terminals for that much. #2 aircraft
cable is expensive and you need a lot of it for a PA28 with a rear
mounted battery.