Replacement Sparkplug Query

[[email protected]]

Hey all. My Lycoming O-360 is finally in need of a new set of plugs. Any
thoughts on replacement flavors? They're currently massive electrode Champions, and I
run autogas most of the time so fouling isn't much trouble. PMA'd replacements?
Fine-wire? Not looking to incite a flame war, just pinging collective experience.

-Cory

--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

[Dan Luke]

> wrote:
> Hey all. My Lycoming O-360 is finally in need of a new set of plugs.
> Any
> thoughts on replacement flavors?

I put fine wires in my O-360 one time and noticed a slight improvement
in idling and lower mag drops in runups.

However, the plugs were subject to lead fouling. Lycoming recommends a
hotter plug to cure this problem (it did) but the fine wires were not
available in that heat range. I had to go back to massive electrode
plugs.

--

Dan
C172RG at BFM

[RST Engineering]

Aircraft Spark Plug Service (Van Nuys CA) will sell you a set of plugs with
more than 80% of service life left, clean, painted, and ready to go for less
than half of the discount store new plugs.

They are also a fountain of knowledge on the care and feeding of plugs. You
might do well to google on the name and call them up.

Jim




> wrote in message
...
> Hey all. My Lycoming O-360 is finally in need of a new set of plugs.

[Jim Burns]

I've got a complete set of Iridium fine wires ready to go into our IO540
Aztec engines. They were recommended to us by our friends in the crop
dusting business. They use them in everything they can. They told us that
the gap simply does not change and they last over 2000 hours. They love
them in the top holes but sometimes use missives in the bottoms if they have
fouling problems, but aggressive leaning and rotating top to bottom at every
oil change keeps them clean. The main reason I bought them was they had a
heck of a deal on them... They buy them by the case lot and I paid less than
1/2 price from what you see advertised. I couldn't pass it up.
Jim Burns

[RST Engineering]

Quoted from Avweb:

" For years I cleaned and gapped my own spark plugs. But I fly a twin, and
doing preventive maintenance on 24 plugs is a lot of work. So I've started
sending my plugs off to Aircraft Spark Plug Service (818-787-5680) in Van
Nuys, Calif. They'll clean, gap, bomb-test and recertify your plugs, and
return them sealed in plastic with new copper gaskets, for $3.50 per plug,
with turnaround typically a week or less. Given today's hourly shop rates, I
consider this a real bargain. "

Jim



"RST Engineering" > wrote in message
...
>
> They are also a fountain of knowledge on the care and feeding of plugs.
> You might do well to google on the name and call them up.

[[email protected]]

Dan Luke > wrote:
: However, the plugs were subject to lead fouling. Lycoming recommends a
: hotter plug to cure this problem (it did) but the fine wires were not
: available in that heat range. I had to go back to massive electrode
: plugs.

I thought about fine-wires, but I've heard that they have fouling problems,
and tend to need a hotter version to minimize that. Since I do run autogas
(high-compression, 91 AKI minimum and I run 93), I would be concerned about
preignition with a small, hot, pointy thing like a fine-wire. I haven't had any
issues yet, but I know that the autogas in the engine is pushing things a bit. Also,
since I do my own maintenance (and there are only 8 plugs), having to diddle with the
massive electrodes every year or 100 hours isn't that big of a deal to me. The hourly
cost of the fine-wires are about the same IIRC (3x as long for 3x the price?).

I'm leaning towards PMA'd equiv like Autolites. I've been happy with PMA'd
oil filters, air filters, vacuum filters, etc so far. Something about paying for a
name bugs me.

-Cory



--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

[RST Engineering]

Before you use a PMA plug, get your hands on one and see that your spark
plug wrench is deep enough to get onto the hex. Some plug manufacturers put
the hex all the way down on the bottom, and a standard plug or deep well
socket bottoms out before getting to the twisty part.

Jim



>
> I'm leaning towards PMA'd equiv like Autolites. I've been happy
> with PMA'd
> oil filters, air filters, vacuum filters, etc so far. Something about
> paying for a
> name bugs me.

[Jonathan Goodish]

In article >,
"RST Engineering" > wrote:
> Before you use a PMA plug, get your hands on one and see that your spark
> plug wrench is deep enough to get onto the hex. Some plug manufacturers put
> the hex all the way down on the bottom, and a standard plug or deep well
> socket bottoms out before getting to the twisty part.


This is true with the Autolites, but it's a problem that is easily
solved with a trip to Sears and an extra-long deep socket.



JKG

[Dan Luke]

"Jim Burns" wrote:

> I've got a complete set of Iridium fine wires ready to go into our
> IO540
> Aztec engines. They were recommended to us by our friends in the crop
> dusting business. They use them in everything they can. They told us
> that
> the gap simply does not change and they last over 2000 hours. They
> love
> them in the top holes but sometimes use missives in the bottoms if
> they have
> fouling problems, but aggressive leaning and rotating top to bottom at
> every
> oil change keeps them clean.

I liked the fine wire plugs; the engine definitely ran better with them.
However, I was having to pull and clean them every 10 hours or so. If
Champion made a fine wire plug as effective in eliminating fouling as
the REM-37-BY, I'd replace my massive electrode plugs immediately.

--

Dan
C172RG at BFM

[Javier Henderson]

"RST Engineering" > writes:

> Before you use a PMA plug, get your hands on one and see that your spark
> plug wrench is deep enough to get onto the hex. Some plug manufacturers put
> the hex all the way down on the bottom, and a standard plug or deep well
> socket bottoms out before getting to the twisty part.

I have the Champion brand socket, which contains a strong magnet and
which will help you from dropping an expen$ive plug on the floor and
ruining it.

Available at Chief Aircraft...

-jav

[Jonathan Goodish]

In article >,
"Dan Luke" > wrote:
> I liked the fine wire plugs; the engine definitely ran better with them.
> However, I was having to pull and clean them every 10 hours or so. If
> Champion made a fine wire plug as effective in eliminating fouling as
> the REM-37-BY, I'd replace my massive electrode plugs immediately.

You might want to look at the Autolite plugs. I have about 50 hours on
mine, after years of using Champions. The Champions would begin fouling
within the first couple of flights, but the Autolites have yet to foul.
I've had consistently smoother engine operation with the Autolites than
with the Champions.

However, I don't believe that Unison make a fine wire plug.


JKG

[[email protected]]

RST Engineering > wrote:
: Before you use a PMA plug, get your hands on one and see that your spark
: plug wrench is deep enough to get onto the hex. Some plug manufacturers put
: the hex all the way down on the bottom, and a standard plug or deep well
: socket bottoms out before getting to the twisty part.

Good to know. I've actually been using my mechanic's plug wrench, but I've
been meaning to get my own anyway.


--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

[[email protected]]

: You might want to look at the Autolite plugs. I have about 50 hours on
: mine, after years of using Champions. The Champions would begin fouling
: within the first couple of flights, but the Autolites have yet to foul.
: I've had consistently smoother engine operation with the Autolites than
: with the Champions.

I haven't had *any* issues with fouling, but like I said, most of my flying
has been on primarily autogas. The bottom plugs get a bit carboned from the oil burn
(chrome jugs). I'll be interested to pull a plug now that I burned 60
hours on 100LL on a trip to AK and back.

My other question would be whether or not an Autolite has the same electrode
dimension/gap as the Champion. Can I use the same gap-setting/measuring/wear tools on
them as the Champions?

-Cory


--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

[Jonathan Goodish]

In article >,
wrote:
> My other question would be whether or not an Autolite has the same electrode
> dimension/gap as the Champion. Can I use the same gap-setting/measuring/wear
> tools on
> them as the Champions?

Yes.


JKG

[Bob Chilcoat]

I noticed in a freebie Trade-a-Plane I picked up at OSH that Air Power, a
new division of Unison (866-287-8506), has Autolite standard electrode plugs
on sale until October 15th for two for $17.90. Seems pretty cheap
considering that we put five Champion plugs in the Archer last annual for
$35 each.

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)


> wrote in message
...
> Hey all. My Lycoming O-360 is finally in need of a new set of plugs. Any
> thoughts on replacement flavors? They're currently massive electrode
> Champions, and I
> run autogas most of the time so fouling isn't much trouble. PMA'd
> replacements?
> Fine-wire? Not looking to incite a flame war, just pinging collective
> experience.
>
> -Cory
>
> --
>
> ************************************************** ***********************
> * Cory Papenfuss *
> * Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
> * Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
> ************************************************** ***********************
>

[Don Byrer]

On Fri, 5 Aug 2005 12:53:34 +0000 (UTC),
wrote:

> Hey all. My Lycoming O-360 is finally in need of a new set of plugs. Any
>thoughts on replacement flavors? They're currently massive electrode Champions, and I
>run autogas most of the time so fouling isn't much trouble. PMA'd replacements?
>Fine-wire? Not looking to incite a flame war, just pinging collective experience.
>
>-Cory

OK...it's not directly related...but...

I've had better luck with Autolite vs Champion both in small engines
and automobiles....better performance, less fouling.

Interesting that some are seeing this in aircraft applications, too.

--Don
Don Byrer
Instrument Pilot Commercial/CFI Student
Electronics Technician, RADAR/Data/Comm @ CLE
Amateur Radio KJ5KB

"I have slipped the surly bonds of earth; now if I can just land without bending the gear..."

[Dave Stadt]

"Jonathan Goodish" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Dan Luke" > wrote:
> > I liked the fine wire plugs; the engine definitely ran better with them.
> > However, I was having to pull and clean them every 10 hours or so. If
> > Champion made a fine wire plug as effective in eliminating fouling as
> > the REM-37-BY, I'd replace my massive electrode plugs immediately.
>
> You might want to look at the Autolite plugs. I have about 50 hours on
> mine, after years of using Champions. The Champions would begin fouling
> within the first couple of flights, but the Autolites have yet to foul.
> I've had consistently smoother engine operation with the Autolites than
> with the Champions.
>
> However, I don't believe that Unison make a fine wire plug.
>
>
> JKG

Unison/Autolite does make a fine wire.

I have been using Unison/Autolite plugs for hundreds of hours and am well
satisfied. Like others have said they seem to foul much less. Some outfit
in Texas is selling them two for $18. They have an ad in TAP. Just got
mine today.

[John Clonts]

> wrote in message ...
> RST Engineering > wrote:
> : Before you use a PMA plug, get your hands on one and see that your spark
> : plug wrench is deep enough to get onto the hex. Some plug manufacturers put
> : the hex all the way down on the bottom, and a standard plug or deep well
> : socket bottoms out before getting to the twisty part.
>
> Good to know. I've actually been using my mechanic's plug wrench, but I've
> been meaning to get my own anyway.
>

Autozone, "oxygen sensor socket"

[Jonathan Goodish]

In article >,
"Dave Stadt" > wrote:

> > However, I don't believe that Unison make a fine wire plug.
> >
> >
> > JKG
>
> Unison/Autolite does make a fine wire.


If they do, I would be interested to know where to find them. No
retailers appear to carry them, and there is no mention of them on the
Unison web page or in their spark plug literature.


JKG

[Dave Stadt]

"Jonathan Goodish" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Dave Stadt" > wrote:
>
> > > However, I don't believe that Unison make a fine wire plug.
> > >
> > >
> > > JKG
> >
> > Unison/Autolite does make a fine wire.
>
>
> If they do, I would be interested to know where to find them. No
> retailers appear to carry them, and there is no mention of them on the
> Unison web page or in their spark plug literature.
>
>
> JKG

http://www.unisonindustries.com/news/press_releases2004/AutoliteXL_1021.htm

I do seem to remember something about manufacturing problems that might have
delayed the sale of Autolite fine wire plugs.

[Jonathan Goodish]

In article >,
"Dave Stadt" > wrote:
> > If they do, I would be interested to know where to find them. No
> > retailers appear to carry them, and there is no mention of them on the
> > Unison web page or in their spark plug literature.
>
> http://www.unisonindustries.com/news/press_releases2004/AutoliteXL_1021.htm
>
> I do seem to remember something about manufacturing problems that might have
> delayed the sale of Autolite fine wire plugs.


I suspect that they missed their target of early 2005 for shipment,
because I can't find them for sale anywhere and there doesn't appear to
be any information on the Unison web site other than the press release.

Nevertheless, I'm glad they're expanding the product line. I don't
think there's a real advantage to fine wire plugs for normally aspirated
airplanes, but I have been very happy with the Autolite massive
electrode plugs so far. The "buy one get one" deal for Autolites from
Air Power looks like a steal.



JKG