Last Call - Any Yoke changers out there?

[Mike Spera]

Still trying to find out if anyone has removed the old bowtie yokes from
their shafts and replaced them with ram's horns. Lots of folks changed
out the yoke/shafts as units, but nobody will fess up that they actually
swapped out the yokes themselves.

Since Piper lists the yoke/shaft as one part number, there probably is
no approved method of separating them.

Looks like I will return the ram's horns with bent shafts I bought from
the boneyard. If you cannot demate/remate them from/with the shafts,
they are useless.

Thanks,
Mike

[tom418]

Mike, it's been around 37 years since I flew a Cherokee with the "Bow Tie"
yokes you described, but, I vaguely remember that the shafts on the B.T.
type yokes had a smaller diameter than those of the "Ram's Horn" variety.

This could explain why they might not be interchangeable?
"Mike Spera" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Still trying to find out if anyone has removed the old bowtie yokes from
> their shafts and replaced them with ram's horns. Lots of folks changed
> out the yoke/shafts as units, but nobody will fess up that they actually
> swapped out the yokes themselves.
>
> Since Piper lists the yoke/shaft as one part number, there probably is
> no approved method of separating them.
>
> Looks like I will return the ram's horns with bent shafts I bought from
> the boneyard. If you cannot demate/remate them from/with the shafts,
> they are useless.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike

[nobody]

Mike,

I was really hoping you'd get an answer to this. I have
a 1964 Piper Aztec that I'd like to do the same thing
with, but when I looked at doing this before, it was just
too expensive.

Ronnie

"Mike Spera" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Still trying to find out if anyone has removed the old bowtie yokes from
> their shafts and replaced them with ram's horns. Lots of folks changed out
> the yoke/shafts as units, but nobody will fess up that they actually
> swapped out the yokes themselves.
>
> Since Piper lists the yoke/shaft as one part number, there probably is no
> approved method of separating them.
>
> Looks like I will return the ram's horns with bent shafts I bought from
> the boneyard. If you cannot demate/remate them from/with the shafts, they
> are useless.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike

[John Kunkel]

"Mike Spera" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Still trying to find out if anyone has removed the old bowtie yokes from
> their shafts and replaced them with ram's horns. Lots of folks changed out
> the yoke/shafts as units, but nobody will fess up that they actually
> swapped out the yokes themselves.
>
> Since Piper lists the yoke/shaft as one part number, there probably is no
> approved method of separating them.
>
> Looks like I will return the ram's horns with bent shafts I bought from
> the boneyard. If you cannot demate/remate them from/with the shafts, they
> are useless.

Since you asked for "confession", I'll speak up. Yes, I did demate the the
large shafts from the ram's horn yokes and install the yokes on my puny
early Cherokee shafts.

The pin that retains the shaft to the ram's horn yokes is driven from the
bottom into a blind hole. With a little precision measuring I determined the
location of the blind end of the pin and drilled a hole in the top of the
yoke which exposed the end of the pin to allow driving it out.

I have a lathe, so I whittled out a couple of fancy looking aircraft quality
aluminum bushings (dimensions long gone from memmory) to adapt the smaller
shafts and repinned them. The hole at the top of the yoke was filled with
plastic aluminum from a tube and sanded to match the contour. My powder
coater assured me that the plastic aluminum filler would survive high temps
of powder coating, there is only a slight, almost imperceptible dimple
caused by shrinkage showing through the powder coat.

Being an A&P, I simply made a log book entry using the Piper conversion kit
number (gasp) since I was pretty sure nobody had ever seen the real Piper
conversion yokes and so far nobody has said a word about it.

[Jim Burns]

Hey Ronnie,
I just looked at Avion's site and it looks like it would only cost us $1200
to do the Aztec! Makes you really wonder if they sell any doesn't it?
Jim

"nobody" > wrote in message
.. .
> Mike,
>
> I was really hoping you'd get an answer to this. I have
> a 1964 Piper Aztec that I'd like to do the same thing
> with, but when I looked at doing this before, it was just
> too expensive.
>
> Ronnie
>
> "Mike Spera" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> > Still trying to find out if anyone has removed the old bowtie yokes from
> > their shafts and replaced them with ram's horns. Lots of folks changed
out
> > the yoke/shafts as units, but nobody will fess up that they actually
> > swapped out the yokes themselves.
> >
> > Since Piper lists the yoke/shaft as one part number, there probably is
no
> > approved method of separating them.
> >
> > Looks like I will return the ram's horns with bent shafts I bought from
> > the boneyard. If you cannot demate/remate them from/with the shafts,
they
> > are useless.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Mike
>
>

[Mike Spera]

What did you use for new pins? Would it not be easier to tap the top and
use an AN bolt instead of a pin? I would not object to a hole at the top.

What does this "Piper conversion kit" do?

Thanks,
Mike
> I have a lathe, so I whittled out a couple of fancy looking aircraft quality
> aluminum bushings (dimensions long gone from memmory) to adapt the smaller
> shafts and repinned them. The hole at the top of the yoke was filled with
> plastic aluminum from a tube and sanded to match the contour. My powder
> coater assured me that the plastic aluminum filler would survive high temps
> of powder coating, there is only a slight, almost imperceptible dimple
> caused by shrinkage showing through the powder coat.
>
> Being an A&P, I simply made a log book entry using the Piper conversion kit
> number (gasp) since I was pretty sure nobody had ever seen the real Piper
> conversion yokes and so far nobody has said a word about it.
>
>
>

[[email protected]]

: Being an A&P, I simply made a log book entry using the Piper conversion kit
: number (gasp) since I was pretty sure nobody had ever seen the real Piper
: conversion yokes and so far nobody has said a word about it.

Couldn't you simply call this an "owner fabricated part?" Granted, there's a
lot of misinformation on this subject, but the A&P is ultimately responsible for
determining what an "equivalent" part is. IIRC there's no requirement to have
drawings, procedures, etc, etc to replace a factory part... just so long as it is
"equivalent."

Thoughts?

-Cory



--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

[Jay Masino]

Mike Spera > wrote:
<SNIP>

Mike,

We did my annual this weekend, and my Bowties inspected OK for another
year. I asked my mechanic (a Piper expert) about it, and he said he's
replaced the Bowtie yokes before, so it's definitely possible to remove
that pin and separate the yoke from the shaft. Personally, I like my
Bowties, so I'm probably gonna try and keep them as long as I can.

--- Jay



--
__!__
Jay and Teresa Masino ___(_)___
http://www2.ari.net/jmasino ! ! !
http://www.OceanCityAirport.com
http://www.oc-Adolfos.com

[Jay Masino]

John Kunkel > wrote:
> Being an A&P, I simply made a log book entry using the Piper conversion kit
> number (gasp) since I was pretty sure nobody had ever seen the real Piper
> conversion yokes and so far nobody has said a word about it.

That was some great engineering/fabrication, but you've just advertised
the fact that you did it all over the world in a countless number of
archives.

--- Jay

--
__!__
Jay and Teresa Masino ___(_)___
http://www2.ari.net/jmasino ! ! !
http://www.OceanCityAirport.com
http://www.oc-Adolfos.com

[John Kunkel]

"Jay Masino" > wrote in message
...
> John Kunkel > wrote:
>> Being an A&P, I simply made a log book entry using the Piper conversion
>> kit
>> number (gasp) since I was pretty sure nobody had ever seen the real Piper
>> conversion yokes and so far nobody has said a word about it.
>
> That was some great engineering/fabrication, but you've just advertised
> the fact that you did it all over the world in a countless number of
> archives.

[John Kunkel]

"Mike Spera" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> What did you use for new pins? Would it not be easier to tap the top and
> use an AN bolt instead of a pin? I would not object to a hole at the top.

Heavy wall roll pins seemed like a more trouble free installation and don't
require any extra room for a head.

>
> What does this "Piper conversion kit" do?

Piper offered a conversion kit to change the bow tie yokes to ram's horn, it
was horribly expensive and rarely available. Since I've never seen one I
have no idea how it's configured.

>
> Thanks,
>> I have a lathe, so I whittled out a couple of fancy looking aircraft
>> quality aluminum bushings (dimensions long gone from memmory) to adapt
>> the smaller shafts and repinned them. The hole at the top of the yoke was
>> filled with plastic aluminum from a tube and sanded to match the
>> contour. My powder coater assured me that the plastic aluminum filler
>> would survive high temps of powder coating, there is only a slight,
>> almost imperceptible dimple caused by shrinkage showing through the
>> powder coat.
>>
>> Being an A&P, I simply made a log book entry using the Piper conversion
>> kit number (gasp) since I was pretty sure nobody had ever seen the real
>> Piper conversion yokes and so far nobody has said a word about it.
>>
>>

[nobody]

Hi Jim,

You nailed it. I do wonder how many are sold.

I found another future source of this, according to
their web site:
http://www.geronimomontana.com/apache.htm

Down a the bottom of the page, they mention 3 items
of interest in the coming-soon category: Ram's-horn
yokes at $1295 per pair, new engine and fuel gauges
(this sound very interesting), and dual brakes.

As a PA-23 owner, you might want to check this site out
if you've not already seen it.

Ronnie


"Jim Burns" > wrote in message
...
> Hey Ronnie,
> I just looked at Avion's site and it looks like it would only cost us
> $1200
> to do the Aztec! Makes you really wonder if they sell any doesn't it?
> Jim
>
> "nobody" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> Mike,
>>
>> I was really hoping you'd get an answer to this. I have
>> a 1964 Piper Aztec that I'd like to do the same thing
>> with, but when I looked at doing this before, it was just
>> too expensive.
>>
>> Ronnie
>>
>> "Mike Spera" > wrote in message
>> ink.net...
>> > Still trying to find out if anyone has removed the old bowtie yokes
>> > from
>> > their shafts and replaced them with ram's horns. Lots of folks changed
> out
>> > the yoke/shafts as units, but nobody will fess up that they actually
>> > swapped out the yokes themselves.
>> >
>> > Since Piper lists the yoke/shaft as one part number, there probably is
> no
>> > approved method of separating them.
>> >
>> > Looks like I will return the ram's horns with bent shafts I bought from
>> > the boneyard. If you cannot demate/remate them from/with the shafts,
> they
>> > are useless.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Mike
>>
>>
>
>
>

[Jim Burns]

Geronimo, as far as I know, is a pretty good outfit. I've talked to them on
the phone a couple times regarding heater upgrades. They've had that note
about the Coming-Soon Ram's horns on their site for quite a while though, so
I'm not holding my breath.

Jim


"nobody" > wrote in message
t...
> Hi Jim,
>
> You nailed it. I do wonder how many are sold.
>
> I found another future source of this, according to
> their web site:
> http://www.geronimomontana.com/apache.htm
>
> Down a the bottom of the page, they mention 3 items
> of interest in the coming-soon category: Ram's-horn
> yokes at $1295 per pair, new engine and fuel gauges
> (this sound very interesting), and dual brakes.
>
> As a PA-23 owner, you might want to check this site out
> if you've not already seen it.
>
> Ronnie
>
>
> "Jim Burns" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Hey Ronnie,
> > I just looked at Avion's site and it looks like it would only cost us
> > $1200
> > to do the Aztec! Makes you really wonder if they sell any doesn't it?
> > Jim
> >
> > "nobody" > wrote in message
> > .. .
> >> Mike,
> >>
> >> I was really hoping you'd get an answer to this. I have
> >> a 1964 Piper Aztec that I'd like to do the same thing
> >> with, but when I looked at doing this before, it was just
> >> too expensive.
> >>
> >> Ronnie
> >>
> >> "Mike Spera" > wrote in message
> >> ink.net...
> >> > Still trying to find out if anyone has removed the old bowtie yokes
> >> > from
> >> > their shafts and replaced them with ram's horns. Lots of folks
changed
> > out
> >> > the yoke/shafts as units, but nobody will fess up that they actually
> >> > swapped out the yokes themselves.
> >> >
> >> > Since Piper lists the yoke/shaft as one part number, there probably
is
> > no
> >> > approved method of separating them.
> >> >
> >> > Looks like I will return the ram's horns with bent shafts I bought
from
> >> > the boneyard. If you cannot demate/remate them from/with the shafts,
> > they
> >> > are useless.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks,
> >> > Mike
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[[email protected]]

Mike Spera wrote:
> Still trying to find out if anyone has removed the old bowtie yokes from
> their shafts and replaced them with ram's horns. Lots of folks changed
> out the yoke/shafts as units, but nobody will fess up that they actually
> swapped out the yokes themselves.
>
> Since Piper lists the yoke/shaft as one part number, there probably is
> no approved method of separating them.
>
> Looks like I will return the ram's horns with bent shafts I bought from
> the boneyard. If you cannot demate/remate them from/with the shafts,
> they are useless.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike

[[email protected]]

Mike Spera wrote:
> Still trying to find out if anyone has removed the old bowtie yokes from
> their shafts and replaced them with ram's horns. Lots of folks changed
> out the yoke/shafts as units, but nobody will fess up that they actually
> swapped out the yokes themselves.
>
> Since Piper lists the yoke/shaft as one part number, there probably is
> no approved method of separating them.
>
> Looks like I will return the ram's horns with bent shafts I bought from
> the boneyard. If you cannot demate/remate them from/with the shafts,
> they are useless.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike

I have a '64 vintage pa28-140. I replaced the bowties with cast metal
ram's horn yokes with PTT that I bought from Aircraft spruce. I believe
they called them Navion yokes. We installed them an annual time and
got local FSDO sign off.