New CFI

[Mediacom]

Well, after lingering in these groups for a while and dreaming about the day
I could start flight lessons I think that day is finally here. I made a
trip out to the local FBO to figure out what exactly the next step is and
more specifically how I go about choosing a flight instructor. It turns out
that the experienced instructors all have pretty full schedules mainly
because of charter flights. There is at least one experienced CFI that
might have some openings. The manager of the FBO recommended that I talk to
a new CFI at the FBO. He is brand new. He just got his CFI a few months
ago and he is not instrument rated. I guess I am looking for any advice on
starting lessons with a "baby" CFI. Obvious concerns are 1. That he will be
hesitant to put his students up for a check ride because he will not want
them to fail. 2. I might miss out on the wisdom of a more experienced
pilot. 3. His lack of an instrument rating will make me miss out on some
wisdom in that area as well. Obviously I know that CFIs have to start with
a blank slate and I am not necessarily opposed to taking up lessons with
him. I'm just interested in any feedback.

Thanks!

Jeremy

[Kevin Dunlevy]

My CFI was young enough to date my daughter, but I would not have approved a
marriage.

Your obvious concern #2 would be my biggest concern. Seasoned pilots will
be able to tell you more about the control, sounds and feel of the airplane,
weather, flying and life in general because of their seasoning.

My CFII is also young enough to date my daughter, but I would approve the
marriage because he is very intelligent. He may not have the experience of
a high hours pilot, but I respect his brains and am happy to have him as a
CFII.

I guess the ideal combination would be an instructor with lots of brains and
experience.

Kevin Dunlevy


"Mediacom" > wrote in message
news:JmcNe.260850$x96.20579@attbi_s72...
> Well, after lingering in these groups for a while and dreaming about the
day
> I could start flight lessons I think that day is finally here. I made a
> trip out to the local FBO to figure out what exactly the next step is and
> more specifically how I go about choosing a flight instructor. It turns
out
> that the experienced instructors all have pretty full schedules mainly
> because of charter flights. There is at least one experienced CFI that
> might have some openings. The manager of the FBO recommended that I talk
to
> a new CFI at the FBO. He is brand new. He just got his CFI a few months
> ago and he is not instrument rated. I guess I am looking for any advice
on
> starting lessons with a "baby" CFI. Obvious concerns are 1. That he will
be
> hesitant to put his students up for a check ride because he will not want
> them to fail. 2. I might miss out on the wisdom of a more experienced
> pilot. 3. His lack of an instrument rating will make me miss out on some
> wisdom in that area as well. Obviously I know that CFIs have to start
with
> a blank slate and I am not necessarily opposed to taking up lessons with
> him. I'm just interested in any feedback.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Jeremy
>
>

[RST Engineering]

"Kevin Dunlevy" > wrote in message
...

> My CFI was young enough to date my daughter, but I would not have approved
> a
> marriage.

In this century, the father "APPROVES" of a marriage? Good Lord, what
backwater part of the world do you live in?


> My CFII is also young enough to date my daughter, but I would approve the
> marriage because he is very intelligent. He may not have the experience
> of
> a high hours pilot, but I respect his brains and am happy to have him as a
> CFII.


Well, hell, since it appears that you are more interested in marrying off
your daughter to a "qualified individual", why not find a willing CFII as
your son in law and hope that he is willing to give you a family discount on
your lessons?


Jim

[Peter Duniho]

"Mediacom" > wrote in message
news:JmcNe.260850$x96.20579@attbi_s72...
> [...] I guess I am looking for any advice on starting lessons with a
> "baby" CFI. Obvious concerns are 1. That he will be hesitant to put his
> students up for a check ride because he will not want them to fail. 2. I
> might miss out on the wisdom of a more experienced pilot. 3. His lack of
> an instrument rating will make me miss out on some wisdom in that area as
> well. Obviously I know that CFIs have to start with a blank slate and I
> am not necessarily opposed to taking up lessons with him. I'm just
> interested in any feedback.

You have valid concerns. However, keep in mind that your primary
instructor, while they will be extremely important in setting habits you'll
keep with you the rest of your flying career, they are far from the only
instructor you'll ever fly with, and have an opportunity to learn from.

A risk with a more experienced instructor is that they may not know when to
quit offering "extras". There's a LOT of new concepts and things to learn
for a new pilot, and an experienced instructor could overwhelm that new
pilot with things that, while useful to know, aren't really relevant to
learning the fundamentals of flying an airplane.

As far as your specific concerns go: #1 is more an issue of professionalism,
and I haven't heard of it being a serious problem. At most flight schools,
the instructor (and especially a brand new instructor) is not the sole
arbiter of when you go for your check ride. So an instructor should, one
hopes, not fear of recommending a student too early because he has a chief
instructor to help him ensure that his determination is correct.

#2 might be a valid concern. However, a brand new instructor who has flown
with an experienced instructor may many of the same insights to offer. And
of course, as I pointed out above, as a fledgling pilot, you may not really
be ready to take on all of the little extra tidbits that might be offered by
a more experienced instructor.

#3 seems to me to be of the least concern. You'll have plenty of time to
learn about instrument flying if and when you train for your instrument
rating. There's very little that can be offered during primary training
that will make much sense to you. Near the very end, you might get to a
point where it does, but then you should be spending your time prepping for
the checkride.

One strong argument in favor of brand new instructors is that they are often
people who were students themselves, only recently. They have a lot more
empathy and recent experience for what you're going through and that MAY
translate into a more effective teaching process. No guarantees, but it's
always nice when the person you're sitting next to really understands what
you're going through, rather than it being a long distant memory.

It really does depend a lot on the instructor. Some new instructors are
there just for the hours, and they are looking forward to running off to
"the majors" as soon as they can. Others take the instructing job
seriously, and being new to the job have a lot more enthusiasm and energy
than many more experienced instructors.

And likewise, while it's a pretty safe bet that experienced instructors are
less likely to be building hours (they stuck around this long, why would
they leave? :) ), they may have less empathy for a primary student, and may
have lost some of the enjoyment of instructing. Or they could be great.
You never really know without either talking to previous students, or flying
with them, and this applies to all instructors regardless of experience.

Pete

[BillJ]

Are you sure about the CFI not having an instrument rating. This doesn't
sound right, since a CFI has to have a Commercial rating, and with some
exceptions all commercial ratings have an instrument rating first.
Maybe what was meant is that the CFI has no rating for instrument
instruction. That would be no big deal for working on a private. The new
CFI will probably be getting a II rating soon.

[Kevin Kubiak]

My original CFII was old enough to be my daughter.
She was 23, I was 48. She was right out of college
and working toward an airline career.

She was very nice, and knowledgeable and stuff, but after about
39 hrs (and I still did not solo, because I couldn't land
consistently) I took a lesson with a more experienced CFII
at our Flying club, after we both agreed that maybe I should do
so. He basically noticed a few things to work on
right away and landings improved that day! I had 2 basic problems, speed
control in the pattern and thinking that landings were mechanical. Do this,
and wait kind of approach. When I mentioned to her
what he said and what we done, she just kinda shrugged her shoulders.
So at that point, I felt like I lost all confidence in her and I changed
instructors which ended up costing me a few more hrs, but in the end I feel that
I understand things a lot more clearly and learned how to fly and not just do
certain maneuvers.

My experience has shown me that anyone can teach you how to learn the basic
maneuvers. It takes a good teacher to help you string them together
and understand what is happening and why you do things to make you a pilot.

Oh by the way the young CFI is now an ATP with a feeder airline in Milwaukee.

For what it's worth, that was my experience.

Kevin Kubiak - PP-ASEL

[Jim Burns]

One system that is used to help new CFI's is Mentoring by a more experienced
CFI. If this is practiced at your FBO and your new CFI has an experienced
CFI mentoring him, I wouldn't worry too much. Do the CFI's at this FBO work
together, exchange experience and cross check each others students? Or are
they all extremely protective of their students and their paychecks
unwilling to confer with each other for the benefit of the student? Try to
hire the collective knowledge and experience of the CFI's rather than just
one.
Jim

[[email protected]]

On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 03:29:45 GMT, "Mediacom" >
wrote:

>Well, after lingering in these groups for a while and dreaming about the day
>I could start flight lessons I think that day is finally here. I made a
>trip out to the local FBO to figure out what exactly the next step is and
>more specifically how I go about choosing a flight instructor. It turns out
>that the experienced instructors all have pretty full schedules mainly
>because of charter flights. There is at least one experienced CFI that
>might have some openings. The manager of the FBO recommended that I talk to
>a new CFI at the FBO. He is brand new. He just got his CFI a few months
>ago and he is not instrument rated. I guess I am looking for any advice on
>starting lessons with a "baby" CFI. Obvious concerns are 1. That he will be
>hesitant to put his students up for a check ride because he will not want
>them to fail. 2. I might miss out on the wisdom of a more experienced
>pilot. 3. His lack of an instrument rating will make me miss out on some
>wisdom in that area as well. Obviously I know that CFIs have to start with
>a blank slate and I am not necessarily opposed to taking up lessons with
>him. I'm just interested in any feedback.
>
>Thanks!
>
>Jeremy
>

As has already been said it depends on the instructor. Why not give it
a try and if you're not happy you can change?

It was not until I'd virtually completed my PPL I found out I was only
the third pupil my instructor had taught! What was most important was
the guy in charge was always on the back of the instructor to make
sure I was progressing as he expected.

I got my PPL in Florida in about a month and felt I'd been well
trained. Subsequent comments from instructors, back in the UK, have
made nice remarks about my flying.

On one occasions, a couple of yearsafter my PPL, when descending in a
large hole in the clouds, I lost the horizon. The engine RPM increased
whilst I was turning and descending and whilst I was VFR it was
effectively IMC. Immediately I remembered my instructor saying to
always believe the instruments. I reduced power, levelled the wings
and brougt it back to level flight very quickly. The rest of the turn
was done cautiously, checking the instruments and was soon back to
VFR. It was all over with 30 seconds but the training worked :-)

Good luck!

[Scott D]

On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 03:29:45 GMT, "Mediacom" >
wrote:

Without repeating what most have said, I think that Peter is very
close to my feelings as well. And if you google this and R.A.Students
this has been hashed over time and time again.

I will say that you probably missunderstood about his instrument
rating. I bet you he has this, but not his CFII where he can teach
instruments. I didn't get me CFII until recently and that was 4 years
after I got my initial CFI and MEI. For me it was a financial reason.
I studied the market where I was teaching at and just couldnt see
spending alot of money on the flying, tests, and the practicle without
having a student base to use it on. If my memory serves me, I turned
down maybe 3 students that wanted me to teach them insturments.
The only reason I got it now is that the guy I fly for now who ownes a
Saratoga, a Duke, and partial King Air 300 wants to get his
instrument. So he let me use the Saratoga and he paid all my fees, so
it cost me nothing. It took me 2 weeks and 1 day to do it in and most
of that was waiting for a slot with the examiner. So my point is,
this new CFI could be a great instructor, so dont dismiss him just
because he doesnt have his CFII.


Scott D.

[Peter Duniho]

"BillJ" > wrote in message
...
>
> Are you sure about the CFI not having an instrument rating. This doesn't
> sound right, since a CFI has to have a Commercial rating, and with some
> exceptions all commercial ratings have an instrument rating first.

Where did you get that idea?

There's absolutely no relation between the Commercial certificate and the
Instrument-Airplane rating, other than some restrictions on what a
Commercial pilot may do without the Instrument rating.

Nothing about having a Commercial certificate in any way implies having an
Instrument rating.

Pete

[RST Engineering]

Except that the pilot (61.133 (b) (1)) will have stamped on their
certificate a prohibition about carrying persons for hire more than 50 miles
*or* at night without an instrument rating. I'd like to see a General
Counsel interpretation as to whether this clause would also prohibit flight
instruction for hire to these limitations.

My suspicion is that it probably WOULD be interpreted with these
limitations, so cross country or night instruction would be out, and would
severely limit the instructor rating.

Jim





"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message
...


>
> Nothing about having a Commercial certificate in any way implies having an
> Instrument rating.
>
> Pete
>

[Ben Hallert]

Before I solo'd, I went for a flight with the owner of the FBO. It was
just a lesson, where he taught me some stuff and had me show him a
couple landings, and it was incredibly useful on a lot of levels.

1. I got some different perspectives on stuff I had learned that
increased my actual understanding (versus just doing things by rote).
2. Validated that my instructor had taught me what I needed to know (I
knew this already, but if I had been nervous, this would have been good
reassurance).
3. Gave me a chance to fly with a stranger in the cockpit. I picked
some stuff up from this that I'm convinced helped me be a little less
awkward when my PPL checkride came a month later.

In short, 'tain no reason why a new CFI can't do a great job, you have
the tools needed to make sure you're getting what you pay for (if you
have another instructor do a lesson partway), and you can always switch
instructors if you don't like how it feels.

I would say that the bigger risk is that this perceived 'obstacle'
could be one of those things that makes you put off following your
flying dreams. There's already enough drag out there (cost,
scheduling, nervousness about flying, self doubts, etc) that you don't
need to add an artificial one.

Thoughts?

Ben Hallert
PP-ASEL

[Brian]

A well Trained new CFI should not be much of an issue.

During his CFI training he should have developed a network of CFI's or
DE's as a Mentors and Resouces.
What he may lack in experience he will make up for in that he should be
very current on current Regulations and PTS Standards. This can
sometimes be an issue with experienced CFI's in that some find it hard
to change with the rules and may still be teaching a Maneuver the same
way they were taught 20 years ago. Even if the standards for it have
changed.
A New CFI will probably be more willing to research issues he does not
know about and discuss your training with his mentors.

Most of all there just try it. If it isn't working for you ask your CFI
if he would mind if you try flying with another CFI. If he says
"Absolutly Not",Run don't Walk to your new CFI.and don't look back.
Your CFI may warn you about CFI hopping, But trying another CFI should
not be an issue. Any good CFI should be more than willing let you fly
with another CFI and may even recommend several CFI's for you to
consider.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

[Paul kgyy]

A critical issue in getting through the training is to be able fly
regularly. You'll move along faster with somebody that's less
experience, but available, than with a greybeard that's always out
flying charters.

My recent IFR instructor was young enough to be my grandson and only
had about 250 hours but was highly professional and consistent in his
training. He was much more meticulous about flying than my previous
instructor, who had 7000 hours but half the time unavailable.

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"RST Engineering" > wrote in message
...
> Except that the pilot (61.133 (b) (1)) will have stamped on their
> certificate a prohibition about carrying persons for hire more than 50
> miles *or* at night without an instrument rating. I'd like to see a
> General Counsel interpretation as to whether this clause would also
> prohibit flight instruction for hire to these limitations.
>
> My suspicion is that it probably WOULD be interpreted with these
> limitations, so cross country or night instruction would be out, and would
> severely limit the instructor rating.
>
> Jim
>

I don't understand why you think they would interpret it that way. They have
already made it very clear that an instructor isn't in the airplane to fly
but rather to teach. A CFI isn't exercising the privileges of his commercial
ticket when he is teaching as exampled by NOT having to have a 2nd class
medical.

[RomeoMike]

My life's adventures have taught me that experience counts for a lot in
any endeavor that I can think of. That's especially true for CFIs. Ones
that can't teach or don't really know some of the finer points can hold
you back. Remember that some young CFIs don't even have 300 hrs. They
have gotten good at training for the ratings and have very little actual
experience. Another point is that you, having no experience, won't
necessarily know if you are getting good instruction or not. I would
always go with the experienced instructor who also has some good
recommendations, since experience alone doesn't mean good instruction
either.


Mediacom wrote:
> Well, after lingering in these groups for a while and dreaming about the day
> I could start flight lessons I think that day is finally here. I made a
> trip out to the local FBO to figure out what exactly the next step is and
> more specifically how I go about choosing a flight instructor. It turns out
> that the experienced instructors all have pretty full schedules mainly
> because of charter flights. There is at least one experienced CFI that
> might have some openings. The manager of the FBO recommended that I talk to
> a new CFI at the FBO. He is brand new. He just got his CFI a few months
> ago and he is not instrument rated. I guess I am looking for any advice on
> starting lessons with a "baby" CFI. Obvious concerns are 1. That he will be
> hesitant to put his students up for a check ride because he will not want
> them to fail. 2. I might miss out on the wisdom of a more experienced
> pilot. 3. His lack of an instrument rating will make me miss out on some
> wisdom in that area as well. Obviously I know that CFIs have to start with
> a blank slate and I am not necessarily opposed to taking up lessons with
> him. I'm just interested in any feedback.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Jeremy
>
>

[[email protected]]

The requirement for CFIs (in airplanes) to have an instrument rating
has nothing to do with the requirement of CFIs to have a commercial (or
higher) certificate. It is stated right in FAR 61.183 that to be
eligible for a CFI certificate with an airplane, powered lift or
instrument rating you must have an instrument rating (or instrument
privileges) on your pilot certificate. The instrument rating
requirement is there, presumably, so the instructor can get you out of
a jam if you accidentally get into IMC. It is of course possible to be
a helicopter CFI without having an instrument rating.

It is also not necessarily true that a CFII or an MEI is better than a
"basic" CFI. From the FAA perspective there is no such thing as a
"basic" CFI, only a flight instructor certificate, and ratings that can
go on that certificate. While the usual progression is: Airplane
Single Engine, Instrument Airplane, Airplane Multi-Engine; The
instructor ratings can actually be earned in any order. That is, it is
possible, although not common, to get a flight instructor certificate
with an "Instrument Airplane" rating but not an "Airplane Single
Engine" rating. Such an instructor could give training toward an
instrument rating, but could not give training toward a private or
commercial certificate.

One advantage of doing the CFI-I rating first is that when you later
train for you airplane single engine rating, you can do all of the
training and the checkride in a non-complex aircraft since you already
demonstrated complex airplane proficiency on the instrument checkride.

Jeff H., CFI ASE/AME/IA

PS Now for the bonus question. How could one get an airplane CFI
certificate without ever flying a retractable gear airplane?

[RST Engineering]

So long as (s)he isn't charging the student ...


Jim




"Gig 601XL Builder" <wr.giacona@coxDOTnet> wrote in message
news:VxqNe.2119$7f5.1954@okepread01...
>
> I don't understand why you think they would interpret it that way. They
> have already made it very clear that an instructor isn't in the airplane
> to fly but rather to teach. A CFI isn't exercising the privileges of his
> commercial ticket when he is teaching as exampled by NOT having to have a
> 2nd class medical.
>

[RST Engineering]

There are tens of thousands of airplane CFIs out there today that had never
flown a retract. I'm one of them.

Jim


> PS Now for the bonus question. How could one get an airplane CFI
> certificate without ever flying a retractable gear airplane?
>

[xxx]

If a CFI has hair and it isn't grey, keep looking.

Yah, I know, that's an unsupportable generalization. Somewhere
out there, along with Bigfoot and Nessie, there's a 20-something
with 252 hours who can do a great job on teaching you to fly. But
to get all my metaphores hopelessly confused, you'll have to kiss
a lot of frogs before the genie pops out of that particular lamp.

Find an older guy, preferably one who teaches as a hobby or as a
retirement project. Unless you really do live out in Bigfoot country,
it's all but certain that there is someone like that at some airfield
you can easily get to. It'll just take some legwork to find the right
match.

Nothing said here should be taken to mean that ALL old guys are good
instructors. Odds are, though, someone who has seen it all over the
course of decades knows more and is better at communicating it than
is the archetypal condescending punk who thinks he's on his way to a
fabulous airline career, once his days of suffering through the likes
of you are put paid.

[Rob]

RST Engineering wrote:
> Except that the pilot (61.133 (b) (1)) will have stamped on their
> certificate a prohibition about carrying persons for hire more than 50 miles
> *or* at night without an instrument rating. I'd like to see a General
> Counsel interpretation as to whether this clause would also prohibit flight
> instruction for hire to these limitations.
>
> My suspicion is that it probably WOULD be interpreted with these
> limitations, so cross country or night instruction would be out, and would
> severely limit the instructor rating.

It sounds to me like there it's a possibility that there's come
confusion regarding the difference between holding an instrument rating
(the instructor is allowed to fly IFR) and holding a CFII (Certificated
Flight Instructor, Instrument) rating (he's allowed to teach instrument
flying). (I know you know the difference Jim, I'm being this
descriptive for the benefit of the original poster). There have been
threads here regarding attaining a commercial or CFI certificate
without an instrument rating. As I recall (and as Pete said) at least
the commercial is definitely possible. I'd also bet it's relatively
uncommon.

As for the original question regarding flying with a brand new CFI...
I'd do it. As a student and as a pilot you'll get the opportunity to
fly with several instructors of varying style and ability. Finding a
CFI who has a teaching style compatible with your learning style is way
more important than the number of years your teacher has held his
credentials. Call me crazy, but I put a little faith in the system.
When the FAA says you're worthy of the private pilot certificate, will
you trust yourself to fly yourself? The FAA says the young CFI is
worthy of teaching you to fly, and he's been through a wringer to get
them to say it.

-R

[Brien K. Meehan]

Mt primary CFI was brand new, and not a "double I". I was his third
student. I was the first student he sent to solo, and the first to get
his license. He told me this later, of course.

I had no idea how he rated until after he moved on and I took IFR
lessons with someone else. It turned out that he was one of the most
able instructors I've ever encountered. His inexperience wasn't a
factor. He knew more about IFR flying than 5 of the CFII's I fired
after him.

[Dudley Henriques]

"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message
...

> A risk with a more experienced instructor is that they may not know when
> to quit offering "extras". There's a LOT of new concepts and things to
> learn for a new pilot, and an experienced instructor could overwhelm that
> new pilot with things that, while useful to know, aren't really relevant
> to learning the fundamentals of flying an airplane.

This is actually a bad analogy. Although this is certainly possible with ANY
POOR instructor, for any GOOD experienced instructor, the exact opposite is
true.
The real issue to isolate with CFI's is the quality issue, and this can be
found both good and bad in both new and in more experienced instructors.
Assuming a good CFI in all the context that makes a good CFI, the more
experienced the GOOD instructor, the more concentration on the basics and
less concentration on ANY FACTOR in the learning curve that would confuse or
overload the student.
I would disagree with your analogy concerning more experienced instructors
as stated, and instead advise any new student to seek "quality" in a new
instructor by reference and/or personal interview; preferably both.
If this quality is found, it will most likely be even more pronounced, not
less pronounced in the "experienced" instructor.
Dudley Henriques

[Peter Duniho]

"RST Engineering" > wrote in message
...
> Except that the pilot (61.133 (b) (1)) will have stamped on their
> certificate a prohibition about carrying persons for hire more than 50
> miles *or* at night without an instrument rating. I'd like to see a
> General Counsel interpretation as to whether this clause would also
> prohibit flight instruction for hire to these limitations.

Since a flight instructor can instruct with only a 3rd class medical,
clearly they are not actually exercising the privileges of their Commercial
certificate while instructing, and so just as clearly any restrictions on
the Commercial certificate do not apply.

> My suspicion is that it probably WOULD be interpreted with these
> limitations, so cross country or night instruction would be out, and would
> severely limit the instructor rating.

Your suspicion is not correct. Not having an instrument rating in no
significant way limits an instructor teaching a primary student.

Pete

[Peter Duniho]

"RST Engineering" > wrote in message
...
> So long as (s)he isn't charging the student ...

Whether or not they charge the student is irrelevant.

[RST Engineering]

"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message
...
> "RST Engineering" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Except that the pilot (61.133 (b) (1)) will have stamped on their
>> certificate a prohibition about carrying persons for hire more than 50
>> miles *or* at night without an instrument rating. I'd like to see a
>> General Counsel interpretation as to whether this clause would also
>> prohibit flight instruction for hire to these limitations.
>
> Since a flight instructor can instruct with only a 3rd class medical,
> clearly they are not actually exercising the privileges of their
> Commercial certificate while instructing, and so just as clearly any
> restrictions on the Commercial certificate do not apply.
>
>> My suspicion is that it probably WOULD be interpreted with these
>> limitations, so cross country or night instruction would be out, and
>> would severely limit the instructor rating.
>
> Your suspicion is not correct. Not having an instrument rating in no
> significant way limits an instructor teaching a primary student.



You've got the reference to the Chief Counsel's opinion on this? Please
cite URL so I can read it for myself.

Jim

[RST Engineering]

How did you work your way out of my plonk file?

Jim



"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message
...
> "RST Engineering" > wrote in message
> ...
>> So long as (s)he isn't charging the student ...
>
> Whether or not they charge the student is irrelevant.
>

[Sylvain]

wrote:
>
> PS Now for the bonus question. How could one get an airplane CFI
> certificate without ever flying a retractable gear airplane?

I can see two possibilities: i) grand-fathered in from a time
when you could get a commercial without flying a complex aircraft
(but then I haven't checked the historical regulations); or, more
likely: ii) did all his training, commercial and CFI, on floats...

--Sylvain

[Peter Duniho]

"RST Engineering" > wrote in message
...
> How did you work your way out of my plonk file?

lol...'cause you're too dumb to be using a computer. I've been using the
same plonkable identification in this newsgroup for years.

Funny thing is, this whole subthread started when YOU replied to one of MY
posts. Took you this long to notice you were even discussing the topic with
me? I refer you to my first statement.

Pete

[Robert M. Gary]

All CFIs are instrument rated. You must hold an instrument rating in
order to apply for a CFI certificate. The FBO probably simply meant
that the CFI was not an instrument instructor. That's no big deal. Many
CFIs who are not CFII's spent lots more time in the clouds than actual
CFIIs. For a private pilot, I wouldn't worry too much about him not
being an instrument instructor (but remember, he IS an instrument
pilot)

-Robert, CFI

[Peter Duniho]

"RST Engineering" > wrote in message
...
> You've got the reference to the Chief Counsel's opinion on this? Please
> cite URL so I can read it for myself.

You can look up your own Chief Counsel opinion, or better yet write them
yourself. This has been discussed numerous times here. On one recent
instance, Jim Burns posted a number of relevant entries from the
quasi-official Part 61 FAQ. You can find that post here:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.aviation.piloting/msg/b34c4448870b68a7?dmode=source

The FAQ quotes the FAA from the preamble to Parts 61 and 141, which reads in
part: "With respect to the holding of medical certificates by a flight
instructor, the FAA has determined that the compensation a certificated
flight instructor receives for flight instruction is not compensation for
piloting the aircraft, but rather is compensation for the instruction".

It goes on to explain the various regulations, and why all this means you
are not exercising your Commercial Certificate when instructing.

Pete

[RST Engineering]

Robert ...

That, unfortunately, is not true. 61.183 (c) (2) says that you have to have
an instrument rating *OR* privileges on that person's pilot certificate
appropriate to the rating sought.

For example, if I wanted to apply for a CFII, I would have to have the
instrument rating. If I wanted to apply for a CFI SEL, I would have to have
a commercial with a SEL rating on it -- no instrument.

Having said that (irregardless of the illiterate bonehead in here who has
neither a CFI or a commercial) if you get a commercial rating without an
instrument ticket, you are limited to working within 50 miles of your home
base AND no night commercial activities.

Now, whether that carries over to charging primary students for cross
country and night flight is not yet fully answered.

And, yes, you DO have to have a commercial ticket to charge students for
instruction.

My wife had her CFI years before she got her instrument ticket ... CFI-G
doesn't require the instrument, nor does the Commercial glider.


Jim
CFI A&G, CGI B, Commercial A&G, A&P/IA
other stuff not worth mentioning.



"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
oups.com...

> All CFIs are instrument rated. You must hold an instrument rating in
> order to apply for a CFI certificate.

[Peter Duniho]

"RST Engineering" > wrote in message
...
> [...]
> Now, whether that carries over to charging primary students for cross
> country and night flight is not yet fully answered.

It has been fully answered. It doesn't.

> And, yes, you DO have to have a commercial ticket to charge students for
> instruction.

No, you don't.

Pete

[cjcampbell]

There may be nothing wrong with a new CFI, depending on who taught him.
Obviously, experience has to be worth something and if they both charge
the same rate then go with the more experienced one.

[Robert M. Gary]

RST, I thought we were talking SEL, not glider. CFI SEL DOES require an
instrument rating.

" If I wanted to apply for a CFI SEL, I would have to have
a commercial with a SEL rating on it -- no instrument. "

No, 100% not correct, you MUST hold an instrument rating or an ATP in
order to take you initial CFI checkride for airplane or helicopter.
Gliders are a different discussion.

-Robert, CFI

[Robert M. Gary]

But you do have to have a commerical or ATP ticket to show up for your
CFI checkride.

Section 61.183: Eligibility requirements.
(c) Hold either a commercial pilot certificate or airline transport
pilot certificate with:

-Robert

[Peter Duniho]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> But you do have to have a commerical or ATP ticket to show up for your
> CFI checkride.

So what? The eligibility requirements for the CFI have nothing to do with
the requirements for exercising the privileges of the CFI.

[Jim Burns]

There was a time that this was not true, and although I don't know a CFI
that does not have an instrument rating, I ALMOST know one. Mine... He
came back from Vietnam and under the GI bill worked on first his private,
then commercial, then CFI. He was getting ready for the CFI checkride and
they changed the rule, stating that in order to take the ride he required an
instrument rating. He got discouraged and never did it. Finally, about 15
years ago, he got busy and did the IR and then the CFI.

My father in law, also a Vietnam era Vet, did the same thing,although he
stopped at commercial, he said CFI came next and instrument was after the
CFI.

Just one instance, and a history lesson more than anything, but there could
be some SEL CFI's out there without instrument ratings.
Jim Burns

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> RST, I thought we were talking SEL, not glider. CFI SEL DOES require an
> instrument rating.
>
> " If I wanted to apply for a CFI SEL, I would have to have
> a commercial with a SEL rating on it -- no instrument. "
>
> No, 100% not correct, you MUST hold an instrument rating or an ATP in
> order to take you initial CFI checkride for airplane or helicopter.
> Gliders are a different discussion.
>
> -Robert, CFI
>

[Robert M. Gary]

I'm not sure what you are trying to day. The fact is that there are no
CFI-Airplane instructors that are currently eligible to teach in
aircraft that do not have an instrument rating. If you believe you know
of a FSDO that is issuing CFI's to pilots w/o an instrument rating,
please post the name of the FSDO.

-Robert

[RST Engineering]

And I'm not sure who you are talking to without at least a word or two of
the prior message.

Jim


"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> I'm not sure what you are trying to day. The fact is that there are no
> CFI-Airplane instructors that are currently eligible to teach in
> aircraft that do not have an instrument rating.

[Robert M. Gary]

RST Engineering wrote:
> And I'm not sure who you are talking to without at least a word or two of
> the prior message.

The claim was that you could be a CFI-A w/o an instrument rating on
your commercial pilot certificate. That is not the case. There used to
be an instructor rating that did not require an instrument rating but I
believe 1973 was the last year you could still exercise that rating (it
was actually a rating that went on your pilot certificate).
Today, all CFI-A are instrument rated on their pilot certificates. If
someone believes there is a CFI-A out there w/o an instrument rating I
would challenge them to
1) Post that person's certificate here from the FAA registry showing a
CFI-A certicicate w/o an instrument rating on their pilot certificate
or
2) Post the name of the FSDO that is issuing CFI-A tickets to pilots
w/o requiring instrument ratings on their commercial pilot
certificates.

We can figure this out pretty quick. If those that claim you can be a
CFI in an airplane w/o an instrument rating would just show ONE CFI-A
w/o an instrument rating.

-Robert

[Robert M. Gary]

BTW: I post the same challenge for commercial. Show me one CFI-A from
registry.faa.gov who does not hold a commercial pilots certificate or
ATP.

[Peter Duniho]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> I'm not sure what you are trying to day.

I'm trying to say that the requirement that one holds a Commercial pilot
certificate in order to take the CFI exam and to receive the CFI certificate
has nothing to do with whether one is required to have a valid Commercial
pilot certificate in order to use the CFI certificate.

> The fact is that there are no
> CFI-Airplane instructors that are currently eligible to teach in
> aircraft that do not have an instrument rating.

That's a complete non-sequitur to your post to which I replied.
However...you wrote:

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> But you do have to have a commerical or ATP ticket to show up for your
> CFI checkride.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with whether a CFI is required to have an
instrument rating.

> If you believe you know
> of a FSDO that is issuing CFI's to pilots w/o an instrument rating,
> please post the name of the FSDO.

I have no idea how you got on to the topic of having an instrument rating,
when we were talking about having a Commercial certificate.

Pete

[Peter Duniho]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> The claim was that you could be a CFI-A w/o an instrument rating on
> your commercial pilot certificate.

What claim? I didn't make that claim. I simply pointed out that not having
an instrument rating was in no way a barrier to having a Commercial
certificate.

[Peter Duniho]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> BTW: I post the same challenge for commercial.

Likewise, I made no claim about HOLDING a Commercial pilot certificate. I
simply pointed out that one need not USE a Commercial pilot certificate to
USE a CFI certificate.

It seems to me you managed to get yourself turned around in the thread
somewhere. At least with respect to your replies to my posts, you appear to
not have been actually reading my posts.

Pete

[Robert M. Gary]

This is what started this thread...

"For example, if I wanted to apply for a CFII, I would have to have the

instrument rating. If I wanted to apply for a CFI SEL, I would have to
have
a commercial with a SEL rating on it -- no instrument. "

That statement is clearly wrong (at least with regard to CFI SE (there
is no CFI SEL) that is exercisable post 1973.

-Robert

[Peter Duniho]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> This is what started this thread...

But "this" is not what you replied to.

> [...]
> That statement is clearly wrong (at least with regard to CFI SE (there
> is no CFI SEL) that is exercisable post 1973.

You are correct, it's wrong. If that was the point you wanted to make
earlier, you should have replied to the post in which that text appeared,
rather than replying to mine, and replying with information that was
irrelevant to my post.

You may also consider actually *quoting* the text to which you are replying.
This will do two things: help those reading your posts have a clue as to
what you intend to comment on; and help YOU to understand better which posts
you are actually replying to.

Pete

[tony roberts]

So ya just opened up a whole rats nest.
Whatever anyone tells you, someone else will disagree.
So I'm not offering any advice at all - just asking a question
:)

Do you want an experienced CFI, or a green as grass CFI?
It's a free world - and you may indeed decide that it is your lot to pay
for the early training of new, green behind the ears CFI - or you may
decide that your hard earned and limited funds are better spent on a
proven experienced CFI. It's up to you - I'm going to get **** for even
raising the doubt :)

Do what feels best - you don't owe anyone anything!

Tony
C-GICE

In article <JmcNe.260850$x96.20579@attbi_s72>,
"Mediacom" > wrote:

> Well, after lingering in these groups for a while and dreaming about the day
> I could start flight lessons I think that day is finally here. I made a
> trip out to the local FBO to figure out what exactly the next step is and
> more specifically how I go about choosing a flight instructor. It turns out
> that the experienced instructors all have pretty full schedules mainly
> because of charter flights. There is at least one experienced CFI that
> might have some openings. The manager of the FBO recommended that I talk to
> a new CFI at the FBO. He is brand new. He just got his CFI a few months
> ago and he is not instrument rated. I guess I am looking for any advice on
> starting lessons with a "baby" CFI. Obvious concerns are 1. That he will be
> hesitant to put his students up for a check ride because he will not want
> them to fail. 2. I might miss out on the wisdom of a more experienced
> pilot. 3. His lack of an instrument rating will make me miss out on some
> wisdom in that area as well. Obviously I know that CFIs have to start with
> a blank slate and I am not necessarily opposed to taking up lessons with
> him. I'm just interested in any feedback.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Jeremy




--

Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Cessna 172H C-GICE

[Jose]

> Do you want an experienced CFI, or a green as grass CFI?

The answer is obvious, all other things being equal. But all other
things are not equal; in fact the mere difference in experience makes
some things unequal in ways that counteract the obvious.

Jose
--
Quantum Mechanics is like this: God =does= play dice with the universe,
except there's no God, and there's no dice. And maybe there's no universe.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Gig 601XL Builder]

No, if you have CFI you can charge.


"RST Engineering" > wrote in message
...
> So long as (s)he isn't charging the student ...
>
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
> "Gig 601XL Builder" <wr.giacona@coxDOTnet> wrote in message
> news:VxqNe.2119$7f5.1954@okepread01...
>>
>> I don't understand why you think they would interpret it that way. They
>> have already made it very clear that an instructor isn't in the airplane
>> to fly but rather to teach. A CFI isn't exercising the privileges of his
>> commercial ticket when he is teaching as exampled by NOT having to have a
>> 2nd class medical.
>>
>
>

[Gig 601XL Builder]

I couldn't disagree more. When I got my PPSEL I had two instructors one with
grey hair and one with very little. They were both great instructors. Over
the years I've flown with many other instructors old and young and never saw
any correlation between age and instruction skill. On the On the other hand
when I got my PP R-H I had a twenty one year old kid from Germany who was
over here building hours. He was without a doubt the best instructor I've
ever flown with. He was a much better instructor than his boss who had x000
hours flying medivac and his boss would agree.

Over the years I've flown with many other instructors old and young and good
and bad never saw any correlation between age and instruction skill. The
young ones that were below average were usually that way because of lack of
experience. The older ones who were below average were that way because they
were so set in their ways and wouldn't change with a gun to their head.
Experience can be earned but asshole goes all the way to the bone.

The worst instructor I ever had was probably the best pilot but he couldn't
teach worth a crap.


"xxx" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> If a CFI has hair and it isn't grey, keep looking.
>
> Yah, I know, that's an unsupportable generalization. Somewhere
> out there, along with Bigfoot and Nessie, there's a 20-something
> with 252 hours who can do a great job on teaching you to fly. But
> to get all my metaphores hopelessly confused, you'll have to kiss
> a lot of frogs before the genie pops out of that particular lamp.
>
> Find an older guy, preferably one who teaches as a hobby or as a
> retirement project. Unless you really do live out in Bigfoot country,
> it's all but certain that there is someone like that at some airfield
> you can easily get to. It'll just take some legwork to find the right
> match.
>
> Nothing said here should be taken to mean that ALL old guys are good
> instructors. Odds are, though, someone who has seen it all over the
> course of decades knows more and is better at communicating it than
> is the archetypal condescending punk who thinks he's on his way to a
> fabulous airline career, once his days of suffering through the likes
> of you are put paid.
>

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"RST Engineering" > wrote in message
...
>
> You've got the reference to the Chief Counsel's opinion on this? Please
> cite URL so I can read it for myself.
>


Here you go Jim

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/afs/afs800/afs840/part_61/media/pt61FAQ.doc

scroll down to page 31 or 32. There are several other related questions as
well. It is a MSWord File. If you don't have Word let me know an I'd PDF it
and and e-mail it to you.

QUESTION: Do the rules permit a flight instructor to even receive
compensation for instruction when that flight instructor holds only a third
class medical, or maybe does not even hold a current medical certificate at
all?



ANSWER: § 61.23(b)(5); Yes, in accordance with § 61.23(b)(5), a flight
instructor who does not hold a medical certificate may give flight and
ground training and be compensated for it. In the preamble of the parts 61
and 141 final rule that was published in the Federal Register on April 4,
1997 (62 FR 16220-16367) when the FAA revised the entire Part 61, the FAA
stated the following in the Federal Register on page 16242 in response to
whether a medical certificate is required for a flight instructor to give
ground and flight training:



“ With respect to the holding of medical certificates by a flight
instructor, the FAA has determined that the compensation a certificated
flight instructor receives for flight instruction is not compensation for
piloting the aircraft, but rather is compensation for the instruction. A
certificated flight instructor who is acting as pilot in command or as a
required flight crewmember and is receiving compensation for his or her
flight instruction is only exercising the privileges of a private pilot. A
certificated flight instructor who is acting as pilot in command or as a
required flight crewmember and receiving compensation for his or her flight
instruction is not carrying passengers or property for compensation or hire,
nor is he or she, for compensation or hire, acting as pilot in command of an
aircraft. . . . In this same regard, the FAA has determined that a
certificated flight instructor on board an aircraft for the purpose of
providing flight instruction, who does not act as pilot in command or
function as a required flight crewmember, is not performing or exercising
pilot privileges that would require him or her to possess a valid medical
certificate under the FARs.”

[Jose]

> A
> certificated flight instructor who is acting as pilot in command or as a
> required flight crewmember and is receiving compensation for his or her
> flight instruction is only exercising the privileges of a private pilot.

Which begs another question... while 61.183 stipulates that one must
have at least a commercial certificate to =apply= for CFI, it is
certainly possible (though unlikely) that after applying for and
becoming a CFI, one could lose their commercial certificate, retaining
only the private pilot certificate. One example would be voluntary
surrender for (weird) insurance or job reasons.

At that point one would have a private pilot and CFI. Is there anything
which prohibits the excercise of the CFI privileges, and charging for it?

Jose
--
Quantum Mechanics is like this: God =does= play dice with the universe,
except there's no God, and there's no dice. And maybe there's no universe.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[xxx]

I'm glad it worked out for you. There isn't one answer that fits
every pilot and every flight instructor all the time and in every
place.

As for me, I've had quite enough of blowing $150 or so to give fair
chances to green kids. My experiences with airline pilot wannabes are
almost entirely negative. My experiences with part-time instructors
who are accomplished professionals in some other field have been far
far better.

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
> I couldn't disagree more. When I got my PPSEL I had two instructors one with
> grey hair and one with very little.

[Peter Duniho]

"Jose" > wrote in message
. ..
> [...] after applying for and becoming a CFI, one could lose their
> commercial certificate, retaining only the private pilot certificate. One
> example would be voluntary surrender for (weird) insurance or job reasons.

Such as? Under what circumstances would the voluntary surrender of one's
Commercial certificate be beneficial for "insurance or job reasons"?

Also keep in mind that the FAA would also need to be willing to not only
accept the surrender of the Commercial certificate, they would have to
reissue the Private certificate. This doesn't sound like the sort of thing
a bureaucracy would actually do. Too much "not in the book" process. The
pilot would probably have to go through the whole Private certification
process all over again.

I'm having a hard time imagining an actual real-world, real-person scenario
in which a pilot could wind up keeping their CFI certificate, but not their
Commercial Pilot certificate. I'd put a modest wager that something like
that has never actually happened.

> At that point one would have a private pilot and CFI. Is there anything
> which prohibits the excercise of the CFI privileges, and charging for it?

As far as I know, no. But I also suspect this scenario has never existed,
and may never. So it's hard to say what the FAA would actually do with such
a scenario.

Pete

[Al]

I'd agree with Rob. That and the New guy will normally have a better
attitude. He will usually still be quite excited by the prospect of flying,
and this can transfer to the student. Al CFIAMI



"Rob" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> RST Engineering wrote:
>> Except that the pilot (61.133 (b) (1)) will have stamped on their
>> certificate a prohibition about carrying persons for hire more than 50
>> miles
>> *or* at night without an instrument rating. I'd like to see a General
>> Counsel interpretation as to whether this clause would also prohibit
>> flight
>> instruction for hire to these limitations.
>>
>> My suspicion is that it probably WOULD be interpreted with these
>> limitations, so cross country or night instruction would be out, and
>> would
>> severely limit the instructor rating.
>
> It sounds to me like there it's a possibility that there's come
> confusion regarding the difference between holding an instrument rating
> (the instructor is allowed to fly IFR) and holding a CFII (Certificated
> Flight Instructor, Instrument) rating (he's allowed to teach instrument
> flying). (I know you know the difference Jim, I'm being this
> descriptive for the benefit of the original poster). There have been
> threads here regarding attaining a commercial or CFI certificate
> without an instrument rating. As I recall (and as Pete said) at least
> the commercial is definitely possible. I'd also bet it's relatively
> uncommon.
>
> As for the original question regarding flying with a brand new CFI...
> I'd do it. As a student and as a pilot you'll get the opportunity to
> fly with several instructors of varying style and ability. Finding a
> CFI who has a teaching style compatible with your learning style is way
> more important than the number of years your teacher has held his
> credentials. Call me crazy, but I put a little faith in the system.
> When the FAA says you're worthy of the private pilot certificate, will
> you trust yourself to fly yourself? The FAA says the young CFI is
> worthy of teaching you to fly, and he's been through a wringer to get
> them to say it.
>
> -R
>

[Jose]

> Under what circumstances would the voluntary surrender of one's
> Commercial certificate be beneficial for "insurance or job reasons"?

I don't know. I pulled it out of my posterior. From the same place I'd
conjecture an employment prohibition on hiring a commercial pilot. It's
as logical as the prohibition on allowing a pilot-employee to fly his
own airplane to a work related event. Perhaps it's to avoid even the
appearance of an air-taxi operation. I don't know and it doesn't matter.

I also agree it probably never has in fact happened.

> Also keep in mind that the FAA would also need to be willing to not only
> accept the surrender of the Commercial certificate, they would have to
> reissue the Private certificate.

I don't see why not. I do think that they would, as a matter of course,
only do it if the surrender included the CFI, but bureaucracies make
mistakes, and it is not inconcievable that the pilot could end up
causing the FAA to amend its FAQ.

Jose
--
Quantum Mechanics is like this: God =does= play dice with the universe,
except there's no God, and there's no dice. And maybe there's no universe.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Gene Whitt]

Y'All,
Into my first flying lesson I brought a life time of reading and interest in
aviation. I had made model aircraft and ships most of my life. I could
identify most flying and non-flying aircraft since the Wrights. In WWII I
had learned electronics, how to read a chart, use an E6-B and navigate. I
had taught LORAN navigation and radar bombardment as a corporal on
simulators to the most unwilling group imaginable. Officers who resented
learning a new way to navigate or bomb using electronics prone to
operational failure.

I went on after the war and college to teach retarded and learning disabled
children. I find that teaching is much the same regardless of the situation
and subject. Those who can, do. Those who can't teach. Those who can't do
eitrher administrate.

I was a student pilot at age 42. I was my first instructor's first solo. I
went on to another new instructor and became his first private pilot. I
became a ground school instructor when the class instructor suggested that I
take over his program. I taught the program for six years. I was the first
commercial pilot of my next instructor. I was my next instructors first
CFI. I was my next instructors first instrument pilot and my next
instructors first CFII rated instructor.

I became a flight instructor to get even. I tried harder to do a good
instructional job with my first student than ever since. I was very
fortunate in not having to study for or pass the instructional side of the
flight instructor's program. As a credential certified teacher I was
exempt. I would never have passed the test. 99% educational garbage theory
finally discarded a few years ago..

My instrucional program is still based upon the little spiral FAA guide of
some 32 lessons that I used in my training. Upon that base I have added
several essentials that have made a recognizable difference in my students.

First requirement is area familiarization and directional knowledge. Second
requirement is using the first requirement to know what to say and when to
say it on the radio. Third requirement is being able to put your aircraft
where you want it, when you want it there and at the exact speed and
configuration best for the situation. All the rest is frosting and I do
teach the frosting at every opportunity.
Gene Whitt

[Mediacom]

Hey all-

Well, sorry for any bags of worms that were opened on account of my original
post. :-)

I thought I would update the post now that I have a little more information.
I spoke with this new flight instructor today for about 20 minutes. It
turns out he is instrument rated (not CFII), high altitude and complex as
well. He has actually flown off and on for 25 years. He just recently
decided that life is too short to waste doing something you don't want to do
and decided to get his CFI and start flight training full time. He is just
about to get his CFII. Obviously I still don't really know him but after
talking with him I am comfortable enough to give it a shot. After all, as
you all (and the instructor) have pointed out, I can always change
instructors if I don't feel like it is working out. So....I am off. My
first lesson will be in a couple weeks. I will check back as things
progress.

I really do appreciate all the input that everyone puts into these
newsgroups.

Cya-

Jeremy



"Mediacom" > wrote in message
news:JmcNe.260850$x96.20579@attbi_s72...
> Well, after lingering in these groups for a while and dreaming about the
> day I could start flight lessons I think that day is finally here. I made
> a trip out to the local FBO to figure out what exactly the next step is
> and more specifically how I go about choosing a flight instructor. It
> turns out that the experienced instructors all have pretty full schedules
> mainly because of charter flights. There is at least one experienced CFI
> that might have some openings. The manager of the FBO recommended that I
> talk to a new CFI at the FBO. He is brand new. He just got his CFI a few
> months ago and he is not instrument rated. I guess I am looking for any
> advice on starting lessons with a "baby" CFI. Obvious concerns are 1.
> That he will be hesitant to put his students up for a check ride because
> he will not want them to fail. 2. I might miss out on the wisdom of a
> more experienced pilot. 3. His lack of an instrument rating will make me
> miss out on some wisdom in that area as well. Obviously I know that CFIs
> have to start with a blank slate and I am not necessarily opposed to
> taking up lessons with him. I'm just interested in any feedback.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Jeremy
>

[Brian]

Thanks for the update Jeremy

Just a suggestion, once you start don't ever leave or cancel a lesson
without scheduling another one. Even if you have to schedule it 2 or 3
weeks out. This will ensure that you keep progressing. Minimum of once
a week is a good goal.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL