Flat Tires?

[Jay Honeck]

One of our least favorite jobs (thanks to our "Fancy Pants" with their
stupid, under-sized access doors) is airing up the tires on our Pathfinder.

I pull the plane back and forth while Mary fishes around for the stupid
nipple. If you want to hear a woman cuss like a sailor, just stop by the
hangar on tire-filling day!

It seems like we're having to fill the tires way too often. At least every
3 - 4 weeks, we notice that the plane has become a real bear to pull out of
the hangar, and that our take-off roll has become noticeably longer. Sure
enough, the tires will be down around 25%, from 40 to 30 lbs on the mains,
and from 30 to 23 lbs (or so) in the nosewheel.

This seems ridiculous. Is it a product of tubed tires, or do I have slow
leaks that should be fixed? Can you use "Fix-a-Flat" in aircraft tires?
(I'll bet not.)

How often do you guys have to fill your tires?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Masino]

Jay Honeck > wrote:
> It seems like we're having to fill the tires way too often. At least every
> 3 - 4 weeks, we notice that the plane has become a real bear to pull out of
> the hangar, and that our take-off roll has become noticeably longer. Sure
> enough, the tires will be down around 25%, from 40 to 30 lbs on the mains,
> and from 30 to 23 lbs (or so) in the nosewheel.

This doesn't seem unreasonable for standard aviation tubes. I've read
several different things about them and what it boils down to is that the
rubber they've always used is somewhat porous (on a molecular
level). There are a few new types of tubes on the market, the most
popular being the Michelen "Air Stop" (I think) that use a better rubber
that doesn't leak. I've heard that they pretty much keep there tire
pressure indefinitely. I believe there have been posts on both r.a.owning
as well as the Cherokee Chat confirming this. I'm switching at the next
tire change.

--- Jay


--
__!__
Jay and Teresa Masino ___(_)___
http://www2.ari.net/jmasino ! ! !
http://www.OceanCityAirport.com
http://www.oc-Adolfos.com

[Rip]

Hi Jay;

Aircraft inner tubes, due to historical inertia, lose air much more
rapidly than their automotive counterparts. However, at least one of the
major aircraft tire suppliers is now making innertubes of modern,
spaceage material that actually holds air. Try Desser.

Rip

Jay Honeck wrote:
> One of our least favorite jobs (thanks to our "Fancy Pants" with their
> stupid, under-sized access doors) is airing up the tires on our Pathfinder.
>
> I pull the plane back and forth while Mary fishes around for the stupid
> nipple. If you want to hear a woman cuss like a sailor, just stop by the
> hangar on tire-filling day!
>
> It seems like we're having to fill the tires way too often. At least every
> 3 - 4 weeks, we notice that the plane has become a real bear to pull out of
> the hangar, and that our take-off roll has become noticeably longer. Sure
> enough, the tires will be down around 25%, from 40 to 30 lbs on the mains,
> and from 30 to 23 lbs (or so) in the nosewheel.
>
> This seems ridiculous. Is it a product of tubed tires, or do I have slow
> leaks that should be fixed? Can you use "Fix-a-Flat" in aircraft tires?
> (I'll bet not.)
>
> How often do you guys have to fill your tires?

[Jim Burns]

We find we need to add a little air every few weeks, infact, I need to do it
tonight.

Couple things to check. How old are your tubes? You may need new tubes.
Tubes are usually natural rubber and will age and crack.

Do you have steel stem caps that you can tighten with a wrench? The steel
stem caps will have a rubber seal that seals against the rim of the valve
stem. Just don't over torque and rip the base of the stem.

Jim

[Nick Funk]

Hey, at least you had help!
I would have roll the cherokee up a couple inches then take a look at
each tire to see if I can see the nipple through the damn little door on
our 1986 Cherokee 180. Then you have to do finger acrobats trying to
get the air hose connected to the nipple.

Those wheel pants on the cherokee are a love/hate relationship. You get
a little extra speed and they look better than no pants. But then
airing up the tires are a pain. And how many people have landed in a
muddy grassy strip and have the pants get clogged up causing the tires
to lock up.

As for the air leak. I think it is through osmosis. We only have to air
up the tires maybe a couple of time a year.

Jay, how about solid rubber tire! Of course you have to grease every
landing.

Nick
PA28-180 'D'



Jay Honeck wrote:

> One of our least favorite jobs (thanks to our "Fancy Pants" with their
> stupid, under-sized access doors) is airing up the tires on our Pathfinder.
>
> I pull the plane back and forth while Mary fishes around for the stupid
> nipple. If you want to hear a woman cuss like a sailor, just stop by the
> hangar on tire-filling day!
>
> It seems like we're having to fill the tires way too often. At least every
> 3 - 4 weeks, we notice that the plane has become a real bear to pull out of
> the hangar, and that our take-off roll has become noticeably longer. Sure
> enough, the tires will be down around 25%, from 40 to 30 lbs on the mains,
> and from 30 to 23 lbs (or so) in the nosewheel.
>
> This seems ridiculous. Is it a product of tubed tires, or do I have slow
> leaks that should be fixed? Can you use "Fix-a-Flat" in aircraft tires?
> (I'll bet not.)
>
> How often do you guys have to fill your tires?

[Mark Hansen]

On 8/24/2005 15:21, Nick Funk wrote:

> Hey, at least you had help!
> I would have roll the cherokee up a couple inches then take a look at
> each tire to see if I can see the nipple through the damn little door on
> our 1986 Cherokee 180. Then you have to do finger acrobats trying to
> get the air hose connected to the nipple.

Isn't there any way to get a floor jack under the gear and jack the
tire/wheel up off the ground?

I'm not criticizing, just curious.

>
> Those wheel pants on the cherokee are a love/hate relationship. You get
> a little extra speed and they look better than no pants. But then
> airing up the tires are a pain. And how many people have landed in a
> muddy grassy strip and have the pants get clogged up causing the tires
> to lock up.
>
> As for the air leak. I think it is through osmosis. We only have to air
> up the tires maybe a couple of time a year.
>
> Jay, how about solid rubber tire! Of course you have to grease every
> landing.
>
> Nick
> PA28-180 'D'
>
>
>
> Jay Honeck wrote:
>
>> One of our least favorite jobs (thanks to our "Fancy Pants" with their
>> stupid, under-sized access doors) is airing up the tires on our Pathfinder.
>>
>> I pull the plane back and forth while Mary fishes around for the stupid
>> nipple. If you want to hear a woman cuss like a sailor, just stop by the
>> hangar on tire-filling day!
>>
>> It seems like we're having to fill the tires way too often. At least every
>> 3 - 4 weeks, we notice that the plane has become a real bear to pull out of
>> the hangar, and that our take-off roll has become noticeably longer. Sure
>> enough, the tires will be down around 25%, from 40 to 30 lbs on the mains,
>> and from 30 to 23 lbs (or so) in the nosewheel.
>>
>> This seems ridiculous. Is it a product of tubed tires, or do I have slow
>> leaks that should be fixed? Can you use "Fix-a-Flat" in aircraft tires?
>> (I'll bet not.)
>>
>> How often do you guys have to fill your tires?


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Student
Sacramento, CA

[Michelle P]

add to this is check to make sure you valve cores are tight.
Michelle

Jim Burns wrote:

>We find we need to add a little air every few weeks, infact, I need to do it
>tonight.
>
>Couple things to check. How old are your tubes? You may need new tubes.
>Tubes are usually natural rubber and will age and crack.
>
>Do you have steel stem caps that you can tighten with a wrench? The steel
>stem caps will have a rubber seal that seals against the rim of the valve
>stem. Just don't over torque and rip the base of the stem.
>
>Jim
>
>
>
>

[Doug Vetter]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> One of our least favorite jobs (thanks to our "Fancy Pants" with their
> stupid, under-sized access doors) is airing up the tires on our Pathfinder.
>
> I pull the plane back and forth while Mary fishes around for the stupid
> nipple. If you want to hear a woman cuss like a sailor, just stop by the
> hangar on tire-filling day!
>
> It seems like we're having to fill the tires way too often. At least every
> 3 - 4 weeks, we notice that the plane has become a real bear to pull out of
> the hangar, and that our take-off roll has become noticeably longer. Sure
> enough, the tires will be down around 25%, from 40 to 30 lbs on the mains,
> and from 30 to 23 lbs (or so) in the nosewheel.
>
> This seems ridiculous. Is it a product of tubed tires, or do I have slow
> leaks that should be fixed? Can you use "Fix-a-Flat" in aircraft tires?
> (I'll bet not.)
>
> How often do you guys have to fill your tires?

Our 150 (since sold) had the standard tubes, and we found ourselves
filling them so often that we put a foot pump in the back of the airplane.

As for the 172, we've been using the generic brand of the Michelin Air
Stop for years and have found it necessary to fill only once every 2
months or so. We just replaced the tires and tubes on the 172, and
because they worked well we bought another set of the very same tubes.
So far, so good.

If you'd like to see the replacement process in detail, go to my site
and browse to:

Aviation->Articles->Maintenance->Tire Replacement

-Doug

--
--------------------
Doug Vetter, CFIMEIA

http://www.dvcfi.com
--------------------

[[email protected]]

Be happy your wheel pants have doors - those on my plane have none. So
yes, inflating the tires is a
hands and knees affair, with a lot of feeling around where I can't see.
And it is unusual for there to be
any help available. At least I haven't grabbed hold of a black widow
spider yet (they have an affinity for
wheel pants). Getting my hands dirty is a certainty. I'll keep the Air
Stop tubes in mind for next time.

David Johnson

[George Patterson]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>
> Can you use "Fix-a-Flat" in aircraft tires?

Nope. When I bought my Maule, it had McCreary tires & tubes. I had to pump them
up before every other flight. I asked my A&P this same question.

> How often do you guys have to fill your tires?

The last tires I put on the Maule were Condors. I don't remember for sure, but
the tubes might have been Michelin (they were certainly not McCreary). The mains
would take 4 months or so to lose 5 pounds. Full pressure was only 26 pounds,
though.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

[Darrel Toepfer]

Don Tuite wrote:

> No help from me on the tubes, although what the other guys have said
> sounds interesting. But next time you get the stem where Mary wants
> it, have her paint a vertical stripe on the tire sidewall.

Careful what you paint it with, something don't react well with the
rubber or vise versa...

[J. Severyn]

Jay,
I fill mine every few months and they lose 5-8 psi over the 2 months, which
is not too bad.

Check the valve every time after you inflate. I mean check it with a daub
of saliva or a spray bottle of water (soapy water even better yet). I'll
bet the valve is not closing completely. I have had many brand new aircraft
tubes with valves that seat intermittently. Many times I just flick the
center pin of the core after finding it leaking.....and the bubbling stops.
John Severyn
@KLVK

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:pZ5Pe.62789$084.53119@attbi_s22...
> One of our least favorite jobs (thanks to our "Fancy Pants" with their
> stupid, under-sized access doors) is airing up the tires on our
> Pathfinder.
snip
>
> How often do you guys have to fill your tires?
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[Jack Allison]

> Those wheel pants on the cherokee are a love/hate relationship. You get
> a little extra speed and they look better than no pants.
Hehe, <imagine the guy in Blazing Saddles> wheel pants? We don't need
no stinking wheel pants! Wheels go up and down, no pants required.
Then again, I do have to remove the hubcaps to air up the mains...but
that's beside the point :-)


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student
Arrow N2104T

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

[Roy Page]

Aircraft inner tubes were traditionally manufactured from a natural rubber
compound.
A tire inner tube is made by taking a length of extruded "rubber" tube which
is then joined into its circular form by joining it's ends together. This
joining process is generally referred to as splicing.
Natural rubber readily bonds to itself and therefore produced the strongest
"splice".
However, as one writer correctly informed, natural rubber is somewhat porous
and results in a slow loss of air.
In the 1970's a new oil based polymer know as butyl was introduced to the
tire industry.
Butyl is non-porous and solved the problem of air loss but was very
difficult to splice into inner tubes so was only adopted for road vehicle
tubes for many years. Aircraft tubes continued to be made from natural
rubber until relatively recently.
Goodyear were an early user of butyl for inner tubes using the trade name
"Air Seal"
Therefore you have a choice, natural rubber tubes may be less prone to
failure but continually lose air or butyl tubes which may fail earlier but
you will not need airing up very often.
Me ........ I use butyl ....... Why ............ Because I designed the
machines which are now used to splice butyl inner tubes.

Roy - N5804F



"J. Severyn" > wrote in message
...
> Jay,
> I fill mine every few months and they lose 5-8 psi over the 2 months,
> which is not too bad.
>
> Check the valve every time after you inflate. I mean check it with a daub
> of saliva or a spray bottle of water (soapy water even better yet). I'll
> bet the valve is not closing completely. I have had many brand new
> aircraft tubes with valves that seat intermittently. Many times I just
> flick the center pin of the core after finding it leaking.....and the
> bubbling stops.
> John Severyn
> @KLVK
>
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
> news:pZ5Pe.62789$084.53119@attbi_s22...
>> One of our least favorite jobs (thanks to our "Fancy Pants" with their
>> stupid, under-sized access doors) is airing up the tires on our
>> Pathfinder.
> snip
>>
>> How often do you guys have to fill your tires?
>> --
>> Jay Honeck
>> Iowa City, IA
>> Pathfinder N56993
>> www.AlexisParkInn.com
>> "Your Aviation Destination"
>>
>
>

[Mike Rapoport]

"Don Tuite" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 21:51:17 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>I pull the plane back and forth while Mary fishes around for the stupid
>>nipple. I
>
> No help from me on the tubes, although what the other guys have said
> sounds interesting. But next time you get the stem where Mary wants
> it, have her paint a vertical stripe on the tire sidewall.
>
> Don
> (I have to have Mary do it. If Jay does it, he'll paint the mark on
> the hangar floor.)

There should be a red dot on the tire at the valve location.

Mike
MU-2

[Mike Rapoport]

Jay, there should be a red balance dot on the tire where the valve stem is.
You can use this to position the valve stem in the window. The right air
chuck can make things easy (or impossible) too.

Mike
MU-2

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:pZ5Pe.62789$084.53119@attbi_s22...
> One of our least favorite jobs (thanks to our "Fancy Pants" with their
> stupid, under-sized access doors) is airing up the tires on our
> Pathfinder.
>
> I pull the plane back and forth while Mary fishes around for the stupid
> nipple. If you want to hear a woman cuss like a sailor, just stop by the
> hangar on tire-filling day!
>
> It seems like we're having to fill the tires way too often. At least
> every 3 - 4 weeks, we notice that the plane has become a real bear to pull
> out of the hangar, and that our take-off roll has become noticeably
> longer. Sure enough, the tires will be down around 25%, from 40 to 30 lbs
> on the mains, and from 30 to 23 lbs (or so) in the nosewheel.
>
> This seems ridiculous. Is it a product of tubed tires, or do I have slow
> leaks that should be fixed? Can you use "Fix-a-Flat" in aircraft tires?
> (I'll bet not.)
>
> How often do you guys have to fill your tires?
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[Don Tuite]

On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 04:01:20 GMT, "Mike Rapoport"
> wrote:

>
>"Don Tuite" > wrote in message
...
>> On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 21:51:17 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I pull the plane back and forth while Mary fishes around for the stupid
>>>nipple. I
>>
>> No help from me on the tubes, although what the other guys have said
>> sounds interesting. But next time you get the stem where Mary wants
>> it, have her paint a vertical stripe on the tire sidewall.
>>
>> Don
>> (I have to have Mary do it. If Jay does it, he'll paint the mark on
>> the hangar floor.)
>
>There should be a red dot on the tire at the valve location.

That's marginally helpful if it;s inside the wheel fairing when you
need it.

(it's an even bigger bitch when you have a '67 like ours. No little
door in the fairing. Cessna has some pop-out disks that are about
1.5 inches in diameter. Our mechanic cut a matching hole out of the
fairing for those and made the appropriate log entry.)

Don

[RST Engineering]

If Mary has to fish around for the nipple, I'd suggest that perhaps a
marriage counselor might be an appropriate expenditure.

{;-)


Jim


>> I pull the plane back and forth while Mary fishes around for the stupid
>> nipple.

[Montblack]

("Jack Allison" wrote)
> Hehe, <imagine the guy in Blazing Saddles> wheel pants? We don't need
> no stinking wheel pants! Wheels go up and down, no pants required.
> Then again, I do have to remove the hubcaps to air up the mains...but
> that's beside the point :-)


http://www.afi.com/tvevents/100years/quotes.aspx
#36 ...The Treasure of the Sierra Madre (1948)

Blazing Saddles (1974) version was funnier :-)


Montblack

[Montblack]

("RST Engineering" wrote)
> If Mary has to fish around for the nipple, I'd suggest that perhaps a
> marriage counselor might be an appropriate expenditure.

>>> I pull the plane back and forth while Mary fishes around for the stupid
>>> nipple.


Any decent "relationship" counselor would have 4 separate notations on just
that one line. <g>


Montblack

[Jay Honeck]

>> If Mary has to fish around for the nipple, I'd suggest that perhaps a
>> marriage counselor might be an appropriate expenditure.
>
>>>> I pull the plane back and forth while Mary fishes around for the stupid
>>>> nipple.
>
>
> Any decent "relationship" counselor would have 4 separate notations on
> just that one line. <g>

I KNEW I could count on you guys to take that line out of context! I just
KNEW it!

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> Me ........ I use butyl ....... Why ............ Because I designed the
> machines which are now used to splice butyl inner tubes.

Thanks, Roy. Gosh, you meet the darndest people on Usenet!

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> Jay, there should be a red balance dot on the tire where the valve stem
> is. You can use this to position the valve stem in the window. The right
> air chuck can make things easy (or impossible) too.

Well, I'm thinking of taking Don's advice, and painting a line on the floor
of the hangar...

;-)

Seriously, I don't know if we'd even be able to see a dot. The stupid fancy
pants stick out pretty far, and Mary (or I) will have to stand on our heads
to see the tire sidewall at all.

No, I think the solution (or, at least, an abatement to the problem) is to
put in the newer inner tubes that don't leak.

(WHY am I not surprised to hear that airplanes still use 1940s-era tire
technology?)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[RST Engineering]

Jay ...

You probably never noticed, but there is a 1" wide red line from the "red
dot" on the tires all the way down to the ground on the BlueOnBlue182. I
can see that sucker and line it up on the ground while I'm pulling on the
tow bar.

You paint the line on the NEW tires before you hang them on the airplane.

I'm going to invest in the new technology tubes, too, but the line is going
to remain. You're going to have to fill up the tires at SOME time, and the
red line is a cheap way of alignment.

Jim


"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:SfkPe.280538$_o.72325@attbi_s71...


> Well, I'm thinking of taking Don's advice, and painting a line on the
> floor of the hangar...

[Roy Page]

Your right Jay ! You never know what lies behind the name or N number !

Roy
Archer N5804F

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
news:4ckPe.277926$x96.65925@attbi_s72...
>> Me ........ I use butyl ....... Why ............ Because I designed the
>> machines which are now used to splice butyl inner tubes.
>
> Thanks, Roy. Gosh, you meet the darndest people on Usenet!
>
> :-)
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[[email protected]]

If that's not enough reason: most (if not all) fix a flat's use Butane
as a propelant and inflator. It's not as stable as air and is flamable.
Also, if you don't get the tire spinning immediately and keep it
spinning for a while it won't be anywhere close to in balance. It's
better than having a flat, but it is a temporary fix at best. Also, if
you use one, warn the tire person when you get it changed or fixed.
Sometimes they smoke...

John

[TripFarmer]

At annual I started to let my A&P/IA groove a small arc on the bottom
of the fairing (I have no door). This would be done with a router I
guess and would make access to the nipple a lot easier.
Wish I had done it before my once a month inflation fun last night. :o)
Mayeb I'll go back and let him do it this weekend.


Trip


In article >, says...
>
>Hey, at least you had help!
>I would have roll the cherokee up a couple inches then take a look at
>each tire to see if I can see the nipple through the damn little door on
> our 1986 Cherokee 180. Then you have to do finger acrobats trying to
>get the air hose connected to the nipple.
>
>Those wheel pants on the cherokee are a love/hate relationship. You get
>a little extra speed and they look better than no pants. But then
>airing up the tires are a pain. And how many people have landed in a
>muddy grassy strip and have the pants get clogged up causing the tires
>to lock up.
>
>As for the air leak. I think it is through osmosis. We only have to air
>up the tires maybe a couple of time a year.
>
>Jay, how about solid rubber tire! Of course you have to grease every
>landing.
>
>Nick
>PA28-180 'D'
>
>
>
>Jay Honeck wrote:
>
>> One of our least favorite jobs (thanks to our "Fancy Pants" with their
>> stupid, under-sized access doors) is airing up the tires on our Pathfinder.
>>
>> I pull the plane back and forth while Mary fishes around for the stupid
>> nipple. If you want to hear a woman cuss like a sailor, just stop by the
>> hangar on tire-filling day!
>>
>> It seems like we're having to fill the tires way too often. At least every
>> 3 - 4 weeks, we notice that the plane has become a real bear to pull out of
>> the hangar, and that our take-off roll has become noticeably longer. Sure
>> enough, the tires will be down around 25%, from 40 to 30 lbs on the mains,
>> and from 30 to 23 lbs (or so) in the nosewheel.
>>
>> This seems ridiculous. Is it a product of tubed tires, or do I have slow
>> leaks that should be fixed? Can you use "Fix-a-Flat" in aircraft tires?
>> (I'll bet not.)
>>
>> How often do you guys have to fill your tires?

[TripFarmer]

Mary/Jay,

I'd thought of the Fix-A-flat but it will make the wheel out of
balance.


Trip


In article >, says...
>
>On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 21:51:17 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
> wrote:
>
>
>>I pull the plane back and forth while Mary fishes around for the stupid
>>nipple. I
>
>No help from me on the tubes, although what the other guys have said
>sounds interesting. But next time you get the stem where Mary wants
>it, have her paint a vertical stripe on the tire sidewall.
>
>Don
>(I have to have Mary do it. If Jay does it, he'll paint the mark on
>the hangar floor.)

[Newps]

RST Engineering wrote:
> If Mary has to fish around for the nipple, I'd suggest that perhaps a
> marriage counselor might be an appropriate expenditure.
>
> {;-)

More like a plastic surgeon.

[Roger]

On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 22:17:02 GMT, Rip
> wrote:

>Hi Jay;
>
> Aircraft inner tubes, due to historical inertia, lose air much more
>rapidly than their automotive counterparts. However, at least one of the
>major aircraft tire suppliers is now making innertubes of modern,
>spaceage material that actually holds air. Try Desser.

I just put new mains on the Deb. I went with the Flight Custom and
the new inner tubes. At 6 weeks the mains were only down 4# while the
nose gear tire had almost gone flat after a couple of weeks in the
hangar. Prior to changing I had to put air in the mains at least once
every two weeks. The change has me thinking of changing out the nose
gear tube. Seems like the tubes were around $12 (give or take a tad)

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
>

[Roger]

On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 07:41:25 -0700, "RST Engineering"
> wrote:

>Jay ...
>
>You probably never noticed, but there is a 1" wide red line from the "red
>dot" on the tires all the way down to the ground on the BlueOnBlue182. I
>can see that sucker and line it up on the ground while I'm pulling on the
>tow bar.
>
>You paint the line on the NEW tires before you hang them on the airplane.
>
>I'm going to invest in the new technology tubes, too, but the line is going
>to remain. You're going to have to fill up the tires at SOME time, and the
>red line is a cheap way of alignment.

I went with them this time when I replaced the tires on the mains. At
6 weeks they were only down 4#. I would have needed to pump up the
old ones at a minimum of every two weeks which I still do with the
nose gear tire. It gets a new tire and tube soon even if the tire is
still in pretty good shape.

It's not only a pain to find I have to pump up the tires when I get to
the hangar, but my air compressor keeps dumping the power to that row
of hangars.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
>
>Jim
>
>
>"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
>news:SfkPe.280538$_o.72325@attbi_s71...
>
>
>> Well, I'm thinking of taking Don's advice, and painting a line on the
>> floor of the hangar...
>

[[email protected]]

On 24-Aug-2005, Jack Allison > wrote:

> Then again, I do have to remove the hubcaps to air up the mains...but
> that's beside the point.


We've got the LoPresti hubcaps on our Arrow IV. They have little doors that
open to expose the valve stem. Works very well.

--
-Elliott Drucker

[[email protected]]

Jay: I have used fix a flat for several years in my warrior, too dumb
to worry about the legality of it. Then a couple of years ago the
practice came up in this group and I called the FSDO in San
Antonio. He curtly informed me that the regs didn't mention fix a
flat, so I figured if he wasn't going to worry about it then I wouldn't
either.
The use helped a lot on the mains but the nose wheel still needed help.
I just recently changed to metal caps, maybe that is the culprit. Leo

[Jay Honeck]

> Jay: I have used fix a flat for several years in my warrior, too dumb
> to worry about the legality of it. Then a couple of years ago the
> practice came up in this group and I called the FSDO in San
> Antonio. He curtly informed me that the regs didn't mention fix a
> flat, so I figured if he wasn't going to worry about it then I wouldn't
> either.
> The use helped a lot on the mains but the nose wheel still needed help.
> I just recently changed to metal caps, maybe that is the culprit. Leo

Did you have any balance problems after using Fix-a-Flat? Did you go out
and taxi around while it "set up", or what?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[[email protected]]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> > Jay: I have used fix a flat for several years in my warrior, too dumb
> > to worry about the legality of it. Then a couple of years ago the
> > practice came up in this group and I called the FSDO in San
> > Antonio. He curtly informed me that the regs didn't mention fix a
> > flat, so I figured if he wasn't going to worry about it then I wouldn't
> > either.
> > The use helped a lot on the mains but the nose wheel still needed help.
> > I just recently changed to metal caps, maybe that is the culprit. Leo
>
> Did you have any balance problems after using Fix-a-Flat? Did you go out
> and taxi around while it "set up", or what?
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"


I just put the stuff in and taxied up and down the runway a couple of
times and went flying. I honestly don't know if I have balance
problems or not. Everything seems to work ok, no odd noises, no wheel
bearing problems and there are no obvious tire wear problems like you
would have with a car. I suspect that taxi and takeoff distances are
so short that minor balance problems would not show up. I have never
seen anyone balance a cherokee wheel with weights anyway. Leo

[Jay Honeck]

> I just put the stuff in and taxied up and down the runway a couple of
> times and went flying. I honestly don't know if I have balance
> problems or not. Everything seems to work ok, no odd noises, no wheel
> bearing problems and there are no obvious tire wear problems like you
> would have with a car. I suspect that taxi and takeoff distances are
> so short that minor balance problems would not show up. I have never
> seen anyone balance a cherokee wheel with weights anyway. Leo

I really don't see any downside to trying Fix-A-Flat. A lot of folks say it
gunks up the inside of the wheels (in cars) -- but we're running TUBES, so
there should be no muss or fuss.

On the other hand, I find it hard to believe that the fix-a-flat goop can
spread evenly around a tube (and dry adequately) just taxiing and taking
off. Since those tires have to spin up from zero to 70 in a split second, I
would think balance issues would be very noticeable? Dunno.

I think I'll just buy new tubes next annual...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Darrel Toepfer]

Jay Honeck wrote:

> I think I'll just buy new tubes next annual...

Why wait, that can be signed off anytime...

[Jay Honeck]

>> I think I'll just buy new tubes next annual...
>
> Why wait, that can be signed off anytime...

True, but I hate to do that kind of stuff mid-stream.

Unless the tire is flat, new inner tubes are one of those "as long as the
plane is up on jacks" kinda things, in my book.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[ORVAL FAIRAIRN]

In article <ikZQe.293072$_o.110885@attbi_s71>,
"Jay Honeck" > wrote:

> >> I think I'll just buy new tubes next annual...
> >
> > Why wait, that can be signed off anytime...
>
> True, but I hate to do that kind of stuff mid-stream.
>
> Unless the tire is flat, new inner tubes are one of those "as long as the
> plane is up on jacks" kinda things, in my book.

Why not patch the tube? I have done it several times and have not
detected any problems. Just be sure to use the "hot patch" method.

[RST Engineering]

That wasn't the point, Orval. The original discussion revolved around the
tendency of most aircraft tubes to diffuse air through the walls of the
tube -- deflate themselves by spontaneous diffusion as it were. THe reason
given was that the specification for aircraft tubes uses a material that is
obsolete in the real world but still used in the make-believe world of
aviation.

Somebody brought up the point that Desser (via Michelin?) has come up with a
"no leak" tube that is blessed for aviation use. Some of the group on here
reported that the "no leak" was in fact just that and a few of the folks
plan on switching to that tube at the next opportunity.

(You left a B out of your signature line.)

Jim



"ORVAL FAIRAIRN" > wrote in message
...
> In article <ikZQe.293072$_o.110885@attbi_s71>,
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
>
> Why not patch the tube? I have done it several times and have not
> detected any problems. Just be sure to use the "hot patch" method.

[Roger]

On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 11:44:23 -0700, "RST Engineering"
> wrote:

>That wasn't the point, Orval. The original discussion revolved around the
>tendency of most aircraft tubes to diffuse air through the walls of the
>tube -- deflate themselves by spontaneous diffusion as it were. THe reason
>given was that the specification for aircraft tubes uses a material that is
>obsolete in the real world but still used in the make-believe world of
>aviation.
>
>Somebody brought up the point that Desser (via Michelin?) has come up with a
>"no leak" tube that is blessed for aviation use. Some of the group on here
>reported that the "no leak" was in fact just that and a few of the folks
>plan on switching to that tube at the next opportunity.

They are called "Leak Guard". I thought I paid $12, but it was $28
each for 6.00 X 6 tubes through Desser.

When installing them you fit the tube into the tire with talcum powder
just like a regular ones. Line up the dots, bars, or what ever, toque
the bolts in the split rim, Inflate it, deflate it, and re inflate.
They aren't completely leak proof, but they hold air much longer than
the old tubes. I already mentioned they were only down 4 psi after 6
weeks.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
>
>(You left a B out of your signature line.)
>
>Jim