Can you see me now?

[[email protected]]

Today I took a step toward settling a question I've had for a long
time. After making sure the frequency was pretty empty, I went ahead
and made the call:

Me: Pitt Approach, Schweizer glider 34367.
PA: Aircraft calling Pitt, say again call sign.
Me: Pitt Approach, this is Schweizer glider 34367.
PA: <pause> Glider 34367, go ahead.
Me: Schweizer 34367 is five miles southeast of Washington County at six
thousand one hundred. Just wondering, can you actually see me on your
radar?

It's something I've always wondered about. Our club's airport (Bandel,
22D) has a few of the house thermals just south of the approach course
for the ILS 27 at Washington County (KAFJ). It's not a very busy
airport, but they get a few King Airs and bizjets every day. If a
couple of us came close, could approach even see a primary return from
the glider and give advisories? (Of course they wouldn't have our
altitude, but even so.)

PA: <bemused> Hang on a second 367, let's have a look.
PA: There you are, 367, looks like, are you more south-southeast of
Washington County?
Me: Pitt approach, 367, yeah, south-southeast is more accurate. Thanks!
<pause>
PA: Glider 367, are you heading westbound?
Me: 367 is circling at my present position.

Now I was in our club's lowly 2-33, which has that huge aluminum wing.
Has anyone ever tried this in a sailplane that doesn't have any big
metal parts? I'm not so sure they could see a glass ship...

--Tom

[BTIZ]

Our local ClassB approach control can readily spot our club 2-33 and 1-26,
also our Grob 103 and LS-4, primary radar only. I tend to listen up on the
frequency when I'm up in "airliner altitudes", sometimes that can be as low
as 7-8000ft MSL, I hear them call "traffic, suspected glider altitude
unknown" to the airliners, and sure enough, it's me they are talking about.
Once I even called them to report 4-6 gliders working the "ridge" between
two fixed points at altitudes from 14K and below after watching about 4
airliners circumnavigate the ridge. He appreciated the call.

BT

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> Today I took a step toward settling a question I've had for a long
> time. After making sure the frequency was pretty empty, I went ahead
> and made the call:
>
> Me: Pitt Approach, Schweizer glider 34367.
> PA: Aircraft calling Pitt, say again call sign.
> Me: Pitt Approach, this is Schweizer glider 34367.
> PA: <pause> Glider 34367, go ahead.
> Me: Schweizer 34367 is five miles southeast of Washington County at six
> thousand one hundred. Just wondering, can you actually see me on your
> radar?
>
> It's something I've always wondered about. Our club's airport (Bandel,
> 22D) has a few of the house thermals just south of the approach course
> for the ILS 27 at Washington County (KAFJ). It's not a very busy
> airport, but they get a few King Airs and bizjets every day. If a
> couple of us came close, could approach even see a primary return from
> the glider and give advisories? (Of course they wouldn't have our
> altitude, but even so.)
>
> PA: <bemused> Hang on a second 367, let's have a look.
> PA: There you are, 367, looks like, are you more south-southeast of
> Washington County?
> Me: Pitt approach, 367, yeah, south-southeast is more accurate. Thanks!
> <pause>
> PA: Glider 367, are you heading westbound?
> Me: 367 is circling at my present position.
>
> Now I was in our club's lowly 2-33, which has that huge aluminum wing.
> Has anyone ever tried this in a sailplane that doesn't have any big
> metal parts? I'm not so sure they could see a glass ship...
>
> --Tom
>

[bumper]

Flying out of Minden, NV, we are in Reno Approach's area. They have assigned
all glider traffic the VFR transponder code 0440, so they know that it's a
glider and they have the altitude to. Of course a transponder squawk doesn't
get lost in the clutter as a primary return can.

Bottom line, if you want to be seen by ATC and aircraft with TCAS, and
especially if you fly where the heavy iron does, consider installing a
transponder.

all the best,

bumper
"BTIZ" > wrote in message
news:M_PSe.8279$ct5.6666@fed1read04...
> Our local ClassB approach control can readily spot our club 2-33 and 1-26,
> also our Grob 103 and LS-4, primary radar only. I tend to listen up on the
> frequency when I'm up in "airliner altitudes", sometimes that can be as
> low as 7-8000ft MSL, I hear them call "traffic, suspected glider altitude
> unknown" to the airliners, and sure enough, it's me they are talking
> about. Once I even called them to report 4-6 gliders working the "ridge"
> between two fixed points at altitudes from 14K and below after watching
> about 4 airliners circumnavigate the ridge. He appreciated the call.
>
> BT
>
> > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>> Today I took a step toward settling a question I've had for a long
>> time. After making sure the frequency was pretty empty, I went ahead
>> and made the call:
>>
>> Me: Pitt Approach, Schweizer glider 34367.
>> PA: Aircraft calling Pitt, say again call sign.
>> Me: Pitt Approach, this is Schweizer glider 34367.
>> PA: <pause> Glider 34367, go ahead.
>> Me: Schweizer 34367 is five miles southeast of Washington County at six
>> thousand one hundred. Just wondering, can you actually see me on your
>> radar?
>>
>> It's something I've always wondered about. Our club's airport (Bandel,
>> 22D) has a few of the house thermals just south of the approach course
>> for the ILS 27 at Washington County (KAFJ). It's not a very busy
>> airport, but they get a few King Airs and bizjets every day. If a
>> couple of us came close, could approach even see a primary return from
>> the glider and give advisories? (Of course they wouldn't have our
>> altitude, but even so.)
>>
>> PA: <bemused> Hang on a second 367, let's have a look.
>> PA: There you are, 367, looks like, are you more south-southeast of
>> Washington County?
>> Me: Pitt approach, 367, yeah, south-southeast is more accurate. Thanks!
>> <pause>
>> PA: Glider 367, are you heading westbound?
>> Me: 367 is circling at my present position.
>>
>> Now I was in our club's lowly 2-33, which has that huge aluminum wing.
>> Has anyone ever tried this in a sailplane that doesn't have any big
>> metal parts? I'm not so sure they could see a glass ship...
>>
>> --Tom
>>
>
>

[Edward Lockhart]

At 02:12 05 September 2005, wrote:
snip
>Now I was in our club's lowly 2-33, which has that
>huge aluminum wing.
>Has anyone ever tried this in a sailplane that doesn't
>have any big
>metal parts? I'm not so sure they could see a glass
>ship...
>
>--Tom
>
During my power training a few years ago, flying at
about 4,000ft on top of scattered cu, the radar information
service from a now defunct airfield warned us of 'intermittent
stationary radar returns in your 12 o'clock, no height
information'. We didn't see anything as we flew on
over a gliding club. The only possible source of the
returns was from gliders thermalling under the cu we
were flying over.

Metal gliders are rare over here so they would either
have been glass or steel tube fuselage gliders. They
couldn't have been that high either as cloudbase was
only about 3,000ft.

The gliding club is 28nm from the radar airfield.

Ed.

[Andy]

Yes primary radar can see glass ships. The metal push rods provide a
visible return. I once enjoyed having Tucson approach vector airliners
round me while I climbed on the edge of their class C airspace. That
was in an ASW 19. The radar can be set to reject slow primary targets
so they may not see you if they are not looking for you.

Being a possible primary target won't give you much protection though
unless you are talking to ATC. At best conflicting traffic will get a
report of "traffic 12 o'clock slow moving altitude unknown". You will
be invisible to TCAS.