Ttransponder question #3

[Ross Richardson]

What do you do when requested to "recycle" your transponder?

--


-------------
Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
KSWI

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Ross Richardson" > wrote in message
...
>
> What do you do when requested to "recycle" your transponder?
>

Coax it to operate properly. Wiggle the wheels a little. Turn it off and
on again. Push on the face to ensure good contact. Whatever.

[Maule Driver]

power off, power on, test, cuss

Ross Richardson wrote:
> What do you do when requested to "recycle" your transponder?
>

[Chris Kennedy]

Ross Richardson wrote:

> What do you do when requested to "recycle" your transponder?

Twiddle knobs, power cycle, whack it harder.

[Newps]

Ross Richardson wrote:

> What do you do when requested to "recycle" your transponder?

Immediately buy a new one. You need to spend at least $1500 to make
this work.

[George Patterson]

Ross Richardson wrote:
> What do you do when requested to "recycle" your transponder?

Turn it off and then back on.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

[Matt Whiting]

Ross Richardson wrote:
> What do you do when requested to "recycle" your transponder?
>

Turn it on. This request means you forgot. :-)

Matt

[Jay Masino]

Ross Richardson > wrote:
> What do you do when requested to "recycle" your transponder?

I check to see if something isn't set correctly, but othewise I don't do
anything. Turning the transponder off and on again practically guarantees
that it won't transmit for 30 to 45 seconds, because all modern
transponders are build to wait that long, before starting to transmit, to
allow for warm-up.

--- Jay


--
__!__
Jay and Teresa Masino ___(_)___
http://www2.ari.net/jmasino ! ! !
http://www.OceanCityAirport.com
http://www.oc-Adolfos.com

[Newps]

Jay Masino wrote:

> Ross Richardson > wrote:
>
>>What do you do when requested to "recycle" your transponder?
>
>
> I check to see if something isn't set correctly, but othewise I don't do
> anything. Turning the transponder off and on again practically guarantees
> that it won't transmit for 30 to 45 seconds, because all modern
> transponders are build to wait that long, before starting to transmit, to
> allow for warm-up.

If the transponder is already warm then it will transmit right away.
It's not a process that has to be repeated because the switch was turned
to STBY and back.

[BTIZ]

look at the code to make sure it is set correctly..
check to see if the interrogator/response light is flashing
check to make sure it is in transmit and not left in "Standby"
if in transmit, move to standby and back on
BT

"Ross Richardson" > wrote in message
...
> What do you do when requested to "recycle" your transponder?
>
> --
>
>
> -------------
> Regards, Ross
> C-172F 180HP
> KSWI

[Andrew Sarangan]

Ross Richardson > wrote in news:kNkWe.8$F94.5
@dfw-service2.ext.ray.com:

> What do you do when requested to "recycle" your transponder?
>

Cycle it off and then on again.

[Brien K. Meehan]

Put it in the green bin on trash day.

.... after making sure that there's a number 1 or 2 inside a triangle on
the bottom.

[[email protected]]

Ross Richardson > wrote:
> What do you do when requested to "recycle" your transponder?

I was told that was the ATC's way of saying, "Hey...you forgot to switch
your transponder to ALT before you took off!" without embarrassing you.

[N93332]

"Ross Richardson" > wrote in message
...
> What do you do when requested to "recycle" your transponder?

Reply with 'Can't -- Slash X-Ray!'

[Jay Masino]

Newps > wrote:
> If the transponder is already warm then it will transmit right away.
> It's not a process that has to be repeated because the switch was turned
> to STBY and back.

That's true if you go to STBY and back, but not neccessarily true if you
go to OFF and back. I know for a fact that my fairly new KT-76A will stop
replying for 30 seconds if I cycle it to OFF and back, even if it's
already warm. I don't think the transponders actually check for
warmth. They just wait the 30 seconds after each power on from OFF.

--- Jay


--
__!__
Jay and Teresa Masino ___(_)___
http://www2.ari.net/jmasino ! ! !
http://www.OceanCityAirport.com
http://www.oc-Adolfos.com

[Klein]

On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 18:01:25 -0700, wrote:

>Ross Richardson > wrote:
>> What do you do when requested to "recycle" your transponder?
>
>I was told that was the ATC's way of saying, "Hey...you forgot to switch
>your transponder to ALT before you took off!" without embarrassing you.

Also quickly check your altitude vs your assigned altitude. He may be
given you a very, very nice hint that you're not quite where you're
supposed to be. Most of them aren't this nice (except for Newps).
;-)

Klein

[Newps]

wrote:
> Ross Richardson > wrote:
>
>>What do you do when requested to "recycle" your transponder?
>
>
> I was told that was the ATC's way of saying, "Hey...you forgot to switch
> your transponder to ALT before you took off!" without embarrassing you.

Wow, lots of misunderstanding out there. Recycle transponder means to
turn it off and then back on again. "Check your transponder on" means
you have taken off and we are not receiving it when we expect to.
"Check mode C on" means we are getting the transponder but no altitude
information. If we are getting the transponder return and an altitude
but you didn't tag up properly it is because the code is wrong. 75% of
the time it is because you entered it wrong, the other 25% of the time
is because you are hangaing on to that piece of **** and even though you
entered the code right it decided to transmit a different code. Banging
on it usually clears it up.

[Newps]

Klein wrote:

> On Thu, 15 Sep 2005 18:01:25 -0700, wrote:
>
>
>>Ross Richardson > wrote:
>>
>>>What do you do when requested to "recycle" your transponder?
>>
>>I was told that was the ATC's way of saying, "Hey...you forgot to switch
>>your transponder to ALT before you took off!" without embarrassing you.
>
>
> Also quickly check your altitude vs your assigned altitude. He may be
> given you a very, very nice hint that you're not quite where you're
> supposed to be. Most of them aren't this nice (except for Newps).



Never ever admit to an altitude bust. When asked to veify your altitude
simply reply back with whatever you were assigned. Then mumble
something about having trouble with this transponder while turning the
mode C off. Return to the proper altitude, turn mode C back on and then
ask ATC..."OK, does it seem to be working now?"

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN]

Klein wrote:
> Also quickly check your altitude vs your assigned altitude. He may be
> given you a very, very nice hint that you're not quite where you're
> supposed to be. Most of them aren't this nice (except for Newps).



Yes. You cut off the transponder for a moment, then adjust your altitude. You
have 30 seconds to get to where you're supposed to be. <G>



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN]

Newps wrote:
> Never ever admit to an altitude bust. When asked to veify your altitude
> simply reply back with whatever you were assigned. Then mumble
> something about having trouble with this transponder while turning the
> mode C off. Return to the proper altitude, turn mode C back on and then
> ask ATC..."OK, does it seem to be working now?"


Excellent advice. There are enough ways of hanging yourself without handing
them one on a silver platter.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

[Thomas Borchert]

Ross,

> What do you do when requested to "recycle" your transponder?
>

I take the hint and switch it on after previously forgetting to ;-)

Or, if it is on, I switch to off and back on.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[Larry Dighera]

On 16 Sep 2005 01:08:10 GMT, (Jay Masino)
wrote in >::

>I don't think the transponders actually check for warmth.

A transponder contains what is termed a Crystal Oven. This is a small
chamber in which there is a heating element and a quartz crystal used
to determine the transponder's transmission frequency. It takes time
for the oven to bring the crystal up to the specific temperature to
which it is set. If the oven were not thermostatically controlled, it
would not be able to provide a stable reference frequency at all
ambient temperatures in which the transponder operates.

[TaxSrv]

"Larry Dighera" wrote:

> >I don't think the transponders actually check for warmth.
>
> A transponder contains what is termed a Crystal Oven. This is a
small
> chamber in which there is a heating element and a quartz crystal
used
> to determine the transponder's transmission frequency.

Which brands/models have that feature?? The frequency accuracy
required by the TSO can be and is achieved without a crystal oven.

The built-in turn-on delay is merely to allow the high-voltage
supply to come up to full volts, and the cavity tube filament to
heat up.

Fred F.

[Jay Masino]

TaxSrv > wrote:
>> A transponder contains what is termed a Crystal Oven. This is a small
>> chamber in which there is a heating element and a quartz crystal used
>> to determine the transponder's transmission frequency.
>
> Which brands/models have that feature?? The frequency accuracy
> required by the TSO can be and is achieved without a crystal oven.
>
> The built-in turn-on delay is merely to allow the high-voltage
> supply to come up to full volts, and the cavity tube filament to
> heat up.

Be that as it may, I believe most transponders just wait a static timeout
amount (30-45 sec), whenever transitioned from OFF to ON, even if you've
already had it on.

--- Jay


--
__!__
Jay and Teresa Masino ___(_)___
http://www2.ari.net/jmasino ! ! !
http://www.OceanCityAirport.com
http://www.oc-Adolfos.com

[Ross Richardson]

Oh, thanks!!!

What is interesting is that I get an occasional reported loss of Mode C
in one area that I fly when under IFR or FF. Departure questions me. No
problems other places. Like there is a hole there. I also was
embarrassed once when taking off and told to contact departure which I
did and they asked me to turn on my transponder. Yep, I forgot to do it.


-------------
Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
KSWI


Newps wrote:
>
>
> Ross Richardson wrote:
>
>> What do you do when requested to "recycle" your transponder?
>
>
> Immediately buy a new one. You need to spend at least $1500 to make
> this work.
>
>

[Ross Richardson]

Interesting. I always left mine in standby to allow for warm up before
going to ALT and transmitting. You mean I can just leave the sucker on
all the time? Mine is an old King KT-78.


-------------
Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
KSWI


Jay Masino wrote:
> Ross Richardson > wrote:
>
>>What do you do when requested to "recycle" your transponder?
>
>
> I check to see if something isn't set correctly, but othewise I don't do
> anything. Turning the transponder off and on again practically guarantees
> that it won't transmit for 30 to 45 seconds, because all modern
> transponders are build to wait that long, before starting to transmit, to
> allow for warm-up.
>
> --- Jay
>
>

[Ross Richardson]

So it is OFF and not just STANDBY?


-------------
Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
KSWI


Newps wrote:
>
>
> wrote:
>
>> Ross Richardson > wrote:
>>
>>> What do you do when requested to "recycle" your transponder?
>>
>>
>>
>> I was told that was the ATC's way of saying, "Hey...you forgot to
>> switch your transponder to ALT before you took off!" without
>> embarrassing you.
>
>
> Wow, lots of misunderstanding out there. Recycle transponder means to
> turn it off and then back on again. "Check your transponder on" means
> you have taken off and we are not receiving it when we expect to. "Check
> mode C on" means we are getting the transponder but no altitude
> information. If we are getting the transponder return and an altitude
> but you didn't tag up properly it is because the code is wrong. 75% of
> the time it is because you entered it wrong, the other 25% of the time
> is because you are hangaing on to that piece of **** and even though you
> entered the code right it decided to transmit a different code. Banging
> on it usually clears it up.

[Lakeview Bill]

I'm not real sure on this, perhaps one of the electro-geeks will correct
whatever I get wrong.

My understanding is that older transponders used something called a "cavity
tube" that had a relatively short life and was expensive to replace.

Supposedly, when the transponder was on "Standby" the cavity did not age as
much as it did when "On".

Which meant that you were using up the "expensive" hours flying, when the
transponder was not needed, and saving them during ground operations.

Supposedly, newer solid-state transponders don't suffer from this lifetime
limitation.

Again, I'm not 100% sure on this...please feel free to correct me if I'm
wrong...




"Ross Richardson" > wrote in message
...
> Interesting. I always left mine in standby to allow for warm up before
> going to ALT and transmitting. You mean I can just leave the sucker on
> all the time? Mine is an old King KT-78.
>
>
> -------------
> Regards, Ross
> C-172F 180HP
> KSWI
>
>
> Jay Masino wrote:
> > Ross Richardson > wrote:
> >
> >>What do you do when requested to "recycle" your transponder?
> >
> >
> > I check to see if something isn't set correctly, but othewise I don't do
> > anything. Turning the transponder off and on again practically
guarantees
> > that it won't transmit for 30 to 45 seconds, because all modern
> > transponders are build to wait that long, before starting to transmit,
to
> > allow for warm-up.
> >
> > --- Jay
> >
> >

[TaxSrv]

"Lakeview Bill" wrote:
>
> My understanding is that older transponders used
> something called a "cavity tube" that had a relatively
> short life and was expensive to replace.
>
> Supposedly, when the transponder was on "Standby"
> the cavity did not age as much as it did when "On".
>

Where a cavity tube is used, "standby" does not extend the life of
the tube. On any xpondr, it merely inhibits any reply pulses from
being sent to the xmit section, be it a tube or transistors.

Fred F.

[Larry Dighera]

On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 08:22:53 -0400, "TaxSrv" > wrote
in >::

>"Larry Dighera" wrote:
>
>> >I don't think the transponders actually check for warmth.
>>
>> A transponder contains what is termed a Crystal Oven. This is a
>small
>> chamber in which there is a heating element and a quartz crystal
>used
>> to determine the transponder's transmission frequency.
>
>Which brands/models have that feature?? The frequency accuracy
>required by the TSO can be and is achieved without a crystal oven.
>
>The built-in turn-on delay is merely to allow the high-voltage
>supply to come up to full volts, and the cavity tube filament to
>heat up.
>
>Fred F.


It was a long time ago that I was having difficulty with ATC receiving
the Mode-C of our King KT-78a. Now that you mention it, it was the
Mode-C blind encoder that had the heater in it, not the transponder.

[TaxSrv]

"Ross Richardson" wrote:
> So it is OFF and not just STANDBY?
>

On King and Narco boxes, turning the thing to STDBY and back to
Mode A or A/C accomplishes nothing to "recycle" the transponder,
whatever that word is supposed to mean to the xpondr mfr! If the
box has a microprocessor (King, Garmin), turning it off and on
again may accomplish something, but doubtfully so.

I liked the earlier post about twiddling the 4 code knobs. On
older generation boxes with wafer switches which can crud up, that
just may work. Same as to jiggling the box in the tray, if just
Mode C is not working.

Fred F.

[TaxSrv]

> Be that as it may, I believe most transponders just
> wait a static timeout amount (30-45 sec), whenever
> transitioned from OFF to ON, even if you've
> already had it on.
>
> --- Jay
>

Is simply what they do. The microprocessor in the Kings invariably
sets the delay; Narco merely first charges up a capacitor which
takes about 30 sec. So, whether she needs "warm-up" or not, it
can't xmit until the light goes out.

Fred F.

[OtisWinslow]

Turn it on and then say "roger .. how's that?"


"Ross Richardson" > wrote in message
...
> What do you do when requested to "recycle" your transponder?
>
> --
>
>
> -------------
> Regards, Ross
> C-172F 180HP
> KSWI

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"OtisWinslow" > wrote in message
.. .
>
> Turn it on and then say "roger .. how's that?"
>

There's no point in asking an aircraft to reset a transponder that hasn't
been turned on. An aircraft that is instructed to recycle the transponder
is usually one that has previously supplied a good beacon target. When an
aircraft departs and no beacon target is seen where one should be seen the
instruction is usually "verify you're squawking NNNN".

[N93332]

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
link.net...
> There's no point in asking an aircraft to reset a transponder that hasn't
> been turned on. An aircraft that is instructed to recycle the transponder
> is usually one that has previously supplied a good beacon target. When an
> aircraft departs and no beacon target is seen where one should be seen the
> instruction is usually "verify you're squawking NNNN".

A few years ago I got a call from tower after departure to check my
transponder. I don't remember his exact wording to me was to recycle or just
to turn it on, but I replied that I was slash x-ray and never heard from him
again...

-Greg B.
Still /X

[Andrew Gideon]

TaxSrv wrote:

> I liked the earlier post about twiddling the 4 code knobs.Â*Â*On
> older generation boxes with wafer switches which can crud up, that
> just may work.

My xponder was once transmitting an incorrect code; one digit was off. In
that case, I futzed with that one knob.

- Andrew

[skym]

A few times while flying home to KBIL on a cold night I've been told
that approach isn't getting my xpdr. Is this likely somehow related to
the cold temp?

Also, what is atc's attitude toward me hitting IDENT, and asking if
that shows anything? (I know I'm leaving myself open here.)

[Newps]

skym wrote:
> A few times while flying home to KBIL on a cold night I've been told
> that approach isn't getting my xpdr. Is this likely somehow related to
> the cold temp?

No, just your crappy transponder.

>
> Also, what is atc's attitude toward me hitting IDENT, and asking if
> that shows anything? (I know I'm leaving myself open here.)

Hitting ident won't change anything if the transponder isn't currently
working.

[skym]

Gee, it's only about 20 yrs old!!

[Mike Granby]

> Excellent advice. There are enough ways of hanging
> yourself without handing them one on a silver platter.

Quite. Plus ATC really doesn't want to bust you as long as no
separation was lost. They just want you back on altitude with the
minimum of fuss. The last thing they want you to do is own up to the
deviation on the tapes...

[Mike Granby]

> Is this likely somehow related to the cold temp?

Yep, most definitely. The older non-solid-state transponders use a
cavity in their tx circuit, and the geometry of the assembly is
critical to getting it to work. It can be close enough that it works
when it is warm and expanded to its usual operating conditions, but far
enough off that it won't work when it's cold. My KT-76A did this a
couple of times, and needed to be tweaked back in by the radio shop.
It's an easy enough fix, but they do tend to slip out of alignment
again after a while.

[[email protected]]

Another thing that can cause transponder/ATC problems: dirt
and oil on the antenna. It apparently can detune things just enough to
cause intermittent or nonexistent returns on the controller's scope.

Dan

[Jay Masino]

TaxSrv > wrote:
> Is simply what they do. The microprocessor in the Kings invariably
> sets the delay; Narco merely first charges up a capacitor which
> takes about 30 sec. So, whether she needs "warm-up" or not, it
> can't xmit until the light goes out.

We're arguing the same side of the discussion (ie, we're in aggreement).


--
__!__
Jay and Teresa Masino ___(_)___
http://www2.ari.net/jmasino ! ! !
http://www.OceanCityAirport.com
http://www.oc-Adolfos.com

[Jay Beckman]

"Newps" > wrote in message
...
>
> Wow, lots of misunderstanding out there. Recycle transponder means to
> turn it off and then back on again. "Check your transponder on" means you
> have taken off and we are not receiving it when we expect to. "Check mode
> C on" means we are getting the transponder but no altitude information.
> If we are getting the transponder return and an altitude but you didn't
> tag up properly it is because the code is wrong. 75% of the time it is
> because you entered it wrong, the other 25% of the time is because you are
> hangaing on to that piece of **** and even though you entered the code
> right it decided to transmit a different code. Banging on it usually
> clears it up.

Here's one that's maybe a bit different...

Tucson, AZ Clearance Delivery gives me a squawk of YYYY for departure from
the Class C airspace.

When I get handed off to ZAB Center, I check in with them for flight
follwing and the controller says "Recycle Transponder, Squawk XXXX."

They only mean to enter the new code, right? They aren't really asking me
to go to STBY, enter the new squawk, then go back to ALT, are they?

Is this correct phrasiology on their part?

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
AZ Cloudbusters
Chandler, AZ

[Ross Richardson]

I wrote to Bendix-King and they confirm there is a built in delay when
tuning on the KT-78 transponder. I would suspect it would apply to others.


-------------
Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
KSWI


TaxSrv wrote:
>>Be that as it may, I believe most transponders just
>>wait a static timeout amount (30-45 sec), whenever
>>transitioned from OFF to ON, even if you've
>>already had it on.
>>
>>--- Jay
>>
>
>
> Is simply what they do. The microprocessor in the Kings invariably
> sets the delay; Narco merely first charges up a capacitor which
> takes about 30 sec. So, whether she needs "warm-up" or not, it
> can't xmit until the light goes out.
>
> Fred F.
>

[Newps]

Jay Beckman wrote:


>
> When I get handed off to ZAB Center, I check in with them for flight
> follwing and the controller says "Recycle Transponder, Squawk XXXX."
>
> They only mean to enter the new code, right? They aren't really asking me
> to go to STBY, enter the new squawk, then go back to ALT, are they?
>
> Is this correct phrasiology on their part?

They should be saying..."reset transponder, squawk xxxx."

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Jay Beckman" > wrote in message
news:FfsXe.253826$E95.128149@fed1read01...
>
> Here's one that's maybe a bit different...
>
> Tucson, AZ Clearance Delivery gives me a squawk of YYYY for departure from
> the Class C airspace.
>
> When I get handed off to ZAB Center, I check in with them for flight
> follwing and the controller says "Recycle Transponder, Squawk XXXX."
>
> They only mean to enter the new code, right?
>

Right.


>
> They aren't really asking me to go to STBY, enter the new squawk, then go
> back to ALT, are they?
>

No.


>
> Is this correct phrasiology on their part?
>

No, correct phraseology would be just "Squawk XXXX".