BFR.. define "rated".

[Dave S]

Pinging the group for an answer here.

Scenario: Up for flight review, elect to have instruction in a
taildragger for the purpose of the flight review. Have a PP-ASEL, but do
NOT have a one time endorsement in tailwheel aircraft that permits one
to be PIC.

The regs say you must take the flight review in an aircraft that one is
"rated" for. Does rated apply to "category and class" or is there also
the need to meet tailwheel, complex or high performance as well (when
applicable)?

The part 61 FAQ's dont address the reviewee needing to have a tailwheel
endorsement specifically, only the reviewer/CFI.

Dave

[Brian]

I believe that category and class is good enough for the definition of
"Rated" but I would have to do a bit of research to give you a 100% for
sure answer.

On the other hand it really shouldn't matter. It will likely take you
about 5 hours to get the Tailwheel endorsement. Most any instructor
would at the end of the 5 hours sign you off for a FR as long as you
also do the 1 hour of ground instruction required as well. Your time
might look like 4 hours of Dual in a tailwheel aircraft. 1 hour flight
training per FAR 61.56. You might have to a bit more for the FR than
just what is required for the tailwheel endorsement but it should be
less than doing them separately.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

[Robert M. Gary]

Rating are things printed on your ticket. See FAR 1.

-Robert, CFI

[RST Engineering]

My understanding is that you must have all the necessary qualifications in
that aircraft to act as PIC, which would include tailwheel, complex,
high-performance, etc.

Jim


> The regs say you must take the flight review in an aircraft that one is
> "rated" for. Does rated apply to "category and class" or is there also the
> need to meet tailwheel, complex or high performance as well (when
> applicable)?

[Michael]

> My understanding is that you must have all the necessary qualifications in
> that aircraft to act as PIC, which would include tailwheel, complex,
> high-performance, etc.

Your understanding is incorrect.

Category, class, and type if required.

In this case, airplane, single engine land

Michael

[George Patterson]

Dave S wrote:
>
> The regs say you must take the flight review in an aircraft that one is
> "rated" for. Does rated apply to "category and class" or is there also
> the need to meet tailwheel, complex or high performance as well (when
> applicable)?

You need to be rated in category and class. Keep in mind, though, that somebody
needs to be acting PIC. If you don't have the tailwheel signoff, the CFI has to
have it.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

[Larry Dighera]

On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 22:09:31 GMT, Dave S >
wrote in t>::

>
>The regs say you must take the flight review in an aircraft that one is
>"rated" for.

http://tinyurl.com/b938n
Rating means a statement that, as a part of a certificate, sets
forth special conditions, privileges, or limitations.

[Sylvain]

Robert M. Gary wrote:
> Rating are things printed on your ticket. See FAR 1.

that was my reasoning too; i.e., the original poster
is fine (tailwheel, high-performance, complex, high-
altitude) are endorsements, not ratings.

--Sylvain

[RST Engineering]

And you all agree that "rated" and "rating" mean the same thing?

Jim


"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 22:09:31 GMT, Dave S >
> wrote in t>::
>
>>
>>The regs say you must take the flight review in an aircraft that one is
>>"rated" for.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/b938n
> Rating means a statement that, as a part of a certificate, sets
> forth special conditions, privileges, or limitations.
>

[Viperdoc]

So, if you have a SEL, MEL, and seaplane ratings do you have to do a BFR in
three different planes?

[BTIZ]

No

"Viperdoc" > wrote in message
...
> So, if you have a SEL, MEL, and seaplane ratings do you have to do a BFR
> in three different planes?
>

[Sylvain]

Viperdoc wrote:
> So, if you have a SEL, MEL, and seaplane ratings do you have to do a BFR in
> three different planes?
>
>

No. Just pick one and you are good to go for all
categories and classes for which you are rated.

For example, you can take your BFR in a glider and
be good to go in your Citation Jet or helicopter...

Which is why CFIs would better off (IMHO) sending
folks to the Wings program... (which still requires
three hours of recurrent training that said CFI
can provide, but without the same liability
exposure...)

--Sylvain

[Doug]

You do not need a tailwheel signoff for FAA purposes. You are already
rated in catagory and class for single engine land then you are "rated"
in a tailwheel, because tailwheel is just a logbook endorsement.
However, if the training does not end in a tailwheel endorsement, then
I think an instructor would have a problem signing off on your flight
review. Part of a flight review is to be able to land and take off
safely. I wouldn't sign off a flight review if the training was in a
taildragger unless the pilot had a taildragger endorsement. The
tailwheel training to get a tailwheel signoff could be used for the 1
hour requirement of flight training required for a flight review. You
wouldn't need an additional hour of "flight review training". At least
not if you trained with me. Taildragger endorsements take all sorts of
different number of hours. The difficulty is crosswind landings. You
need the wind, and you need to demostrate you can land in it.

So strickly speaking, for satisfying FAA requirements, yes, you can do
your flight review training in a taildragger if you don't have a
tailwheel signoff. But practical matters dictate that you are going to
need it.

[Dave S]

Actually, the Part 61 FAQ in the FAA's library specificly REQUIRES the
CFI to have a tailwheel endorsement when providing a flight review in a
tailwheel aircraft. (essentially this falls under the "authorized
instructor" clause, and to be authorized to instruct in a tailwheel, one
must be endorsed, in their view).

Granted, the FAQ's are pretty far down the list in the scheme of things
with regards to the regulatory heirarchy, but it's the "party line".

By the way, in my situation, I did about 8 hours total in the tailwheel,
to the point I could manage wheel landings, 3 pointers and xwinds with
both. This was over 2 days, and combined with some spectacular mountain
area flying in the Salt Lake area. My friend/instructor was not sure if
a BFR in a plane I was not endorsed in would pass the "smell test" if it
were ever auditied, so we hammered things out to the point he felt I was
endorseable for PIC tailwheel. Combined with about 3-4 hours of
tailwheel dabbling over the past 4-5 years, I made the transition fairly
well, given that the 180 was characterized as a little more difficult
than an ordinary entry level tailwheel.

Thanks for the replies and opinions with regards to the ratings issue,
even though at this point it's purely an academic exercise with regard
to me.

Dave

George Patterson wrote:
> Dave S wrote:
>
>>
>> The regs say you must take the flight review in an aircraft that one
>> is "rated" for. Does rated apply to "category and class" or is there
>> also the need to meet tailwheel, complex or high performance as well
>> (when applicable)?
>
>
> You need to be rated in category and class. Keep in mind, though, that
> somebody needs to be acting PIC. If you don't have the tailwheel
> signoff, the CFI has to have it.
>
> George Patterson
> Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
> use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

[RK Henry]

On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 22:09:31 GMT, Dave S >
wrote:

>Pinging the group for an answer here.
>
>Scenario: Up for flight review, elect to have instruction in a
>taildragger for the purpose of the flight review. Have a PP-ASEL, but do
>NOT have a one time endorsement in tailwheel aircraft that permits one
>to be PIC.

What about if you used the taildragger endorsement as part of a Wings
phase? A safety seminar and some dual for which you get a nice
certificate and pin and you don't have to bother with a flight review.
Would that work? I think you' re supposed to get a variety of
instruction, including some instrument work, to satisfy Wings, but I
expect that the taildragger work ought to satisfy most of them.

RK Henry

[Gig 601XL Builder]

"Viperdoc" > wrote in message
...
> So, if you have a SEL, MEL, and seaplane ratings do you have to do a BFR
> in three different planes?
>

No and for that matter, and I think this is insane, when I got my R-H
certificate that acted as my BFR for ASEL which at the time I hadn't been in
the cockpit of one for 5 years.

[.Blueskies.]

"Dave S" > wrote in message nk.net...
> Actually, the Part 61 FAQ in the FAA's library specificly REQUIRES the CFI to have a tailwheel endorsement when
> providing a flight review in a tailwheel aircraft. (essentially this falls under the "authorized instructor" clause,
> and to be authorized to instruct in a tailwheel, one must be endorsed, in their view).
>


Does it say they need the endorsement even if they are grandfathered in (pre what...'93?)???

[Mike W.]

Yes that will satisfy the BFR, but he has to get his plane to the Wings
event. and you are assuming that there will be an instructor there that is
both qualified and willing to do this. Maybe have a tailwheel endorsed pilot
friend fly him there? I dunno, sounds like a whole lot of trouble just to
save a couple of hours in the plane. Just get your BFR done in whatever you
are currently qualified to fly, and get the tailwheel endorsement
seperately.

"RK Henry" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 22:09:31 GMT, Dave S >
> wrote:
>
> >Pinging the group for an answer here.
> >
> >Scenario: Up for flight review, elect to have instruction in a
> >taildragger for the purpose of the flight review. Have a PP-ASEL, but do
> >NOT have a one time endorsement in tailwheel aircraft that permits one
> >to be PIC.
>
> What about if you used the taildragger endorsement as part of a Wings
> phase? A safety seminar and some dual for which you get a nice
> certificate and pin and you don't have to bother with a flight review.
> Would that work? I think you' re supposed to get a variety of
> instruction, including some instrument work, to satisfy Wings, but I
> expect that the taildragger work ought to satisfy most of them.
>
> RK Henry

[Ron Natalie]

Dave S wrote:

>
> The regs say you must take the flight review in an aircraft that one is
> "rated" for. Does rated apply to "category and class" or is there also
> the need to meet tailwheel, complex or high performance as well (when
> applicable)?

Ratings are the things that appear on your pilot certificate.
Category, class, and for things that require it a type rating
(jets and other large aircraft). Tailwheel, complex, or
HP do not count. They aren't ratings.

[Ron Natalie]

George Patterson wrote:

> You need to be rated in category and class. Keep in mind, though, that
> somebody needs to be acting PIC. If you don't have the tailwheel
> signoff, the CFI has to have it.
>
Of course, if your BFR has expired, you can't be PIC during the review
anyhow...

[john smith]

> Ratings are the things that appear on your pilot certificate.
> Category, class, and for things that require it a type rating
> (jets and other large aircraft). Tailwheel, complex, or
> HP do not count. They aren't ratings.

They are "endorsements".