Engine Recomendations

[f]

Today was not a good day for the Baron. While replacing a cylinder I found
a crack (confirmed with Dye Pent) off the #5 cylinder leading up towards the
case halves.

The engine has 2750 Hr since new and about 1000 Hr since a TW Smith
overhaul. The case is repairable, but it seems like a waste to not do the
overhaul.

The question is has anyone recently purchased a Factory New engine? The
cost is about $4K more but the parts are not a mix of old parts.

The engine is an IO-470L.

Any thoughts and opinions will be a great help.

Paul

[Matt Barrow]

"f" > wrote in message
...
> Today was not a good day for the Baron. While replacing a cylinder I
> found a crack (confirmed with Dye Pent) off the #5 cylinder leading up
> towards the case halves.
>
> The engine has 2750 Hr since new and about 1000 Hr since a TW Smith
> overhaul. The case is repairable, but it seems like a waste to not do
> the overhaul.
>
> The question is has anyone recently purchased a Factory New engine? The
> cost is about $4K more but the parts are not a mix of old parts.
>
> The engine is an IO-470L.
>
> Any thoughts and opinions will be a great help.
>

Why buy a factory engine when so many of the after market plants are so much
better? The better shops do NOT use mixed parts.

http://www.superiorairparts.com/

http://www.westernskyways.com/

http://www.txskyways.com/

Good luck!!

[Newps]

I wouldn't touch Continental or Millenium cylinders with a 10 foot pole.



Matt Barrow wrote:

> "f" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Today was not a good day for the Baron. While replacing a cylinder I
>>found a crack (confirmed with Dye Pent) off the #5 cylinder leading up
>>towards the case halves.
>>
>>The engine has 2750 Hr since new and about 1000 Hr since a TW Smith
>>overhaul. The case is repairable, but it seems like a waste to not do
>>the overhaul.
>>
>>The question is has anyone recently purchased a Factory New engine? The
>>cost is about $4K more but the parts are not a mix of old parts.
>>
>>The engine is an IO-470L.
>>
>>Any thoughts and opinions will be a great help.
>>
>
>
> Why buy a factory engine when so many of the after market plants are so much
> better? The better shops do NOT use mixed parts.
>
> http://www.superiorairparts.com/
>
> http://www.westernskyways.com/
>
> http://www.txskyways.com/
>
> Good luck!!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Jim Burns]

>While replacing a cylinder I found
> a crack (confirmed with Dye Pent) off the #5 cylinder leading up towards
the
> case halves....
> The case is repairable, but it seems like a waste to not do the
> overhaul.
>

So, you're saying the case itself is cracked? If so, the question you must
have answered is how much you will get for your core. If "$0.00" is the
answer, then you will probably need to look deeper into your checking
account or consider the repair more closely.

Jim

[Dan Luke]

"Newps" wrote:

>I wouldn't touch Continental or Millenium cylinders with a 10 foot
>pole.

I know Continentals are cheese; what's wrong with Milleniums?

[f]

The case is repairable and should be acceptable to Continental. The core
deposit is $10,000 on top of the $30K for the engine so you are correct if
it is not accepted their will be an additional charge, but I believe that
the case charge is $2,500 if the total case is unserviceable. In this case
I think they will accept the core. Any thought on new engines?

Paul



"Jim Burns" > wrote in message
...
> >While replacing a cylinder I found
>> a crack (confirmed with Dye Pent) off the #5 cylinder leading up towards
> the
>> case halves....
>> The case is repairable, but it seems like a waste to not do the
>> overhaul.
>>
>
> So, you're saying the case itself is cracked? If so, the question you
> must
> have answered is how much you will get for your core. If "$0.00" is the
> answer, then you will probably need to look deeper into your checking
> account or consider the repair more closely.
>
> Jim
>
>
>

[Newps]

Dan Luke wrote:
> "Newps" wrote:
>
>
>>I wouldn't touch Continental or Millenium cylinders with a 10 foot
>>pole.
>
>
> I know Continentals are cheese; what's wrong with Milleniums?

They are good cylinders until you need warranty work. When I had my 182
I was considering putting the Pponk engine on it earlier this spring.
It is basically a carb'd 520 that puts out 275 HP. The guy that owns
Pponk is famous in Cessna circles for the quality of his work. He won't
sell you a Millenium cylinder. He used to push them but then the
company gave him and everybody else so much grief over customer service
issues that he stopped selling them. Millenium is like JPI, the
products can be good but the company treats its customers like dirt.

[Jim Burns]

Looking down the road a ways, I would think that you would get more $$ out
of your Baron, should you decide to sell, if it has the factory new engine
rather than the rebuild or the repaired case, possibly even more than enough
to cover the difference in cost. You've got an expensive airplane and
nothing speaks louder to buyers of complex high performance airplanes than
logbooks showing that "no expense was spared". I don't think going "factory
new" would be a bad move, remember, you also get the full factory warrantee
if you do.
Jim

"f" > wrote in message
. ..
> The case is repairable and should be acceptable to Continental. The core
> deposit is $10,000 on top of the $30K for the engine so you are correct if
> it is not accepted their will be an additional charge, but I believe that
> the case charge is $2,500 if the total case is unserviceable. In this
case
> I think they will accept the core. Any thought on new engines?
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> "Jim Burns" > wrote in message
> ...
> > >While replacing a cylinder I found
> >> a crack (confirmed with Dye Pent) off the #5 cylinder leading up
towards
> > the
> >> case halves....
> >> The case is repairable, but it seems like a waste to not do the
> >> overhaul.
> >>
> >
> > So, you're saying the case itself is cracked? If so, the question you
> > must
> > have answered is how much you will get for your core. If "$0.00" is the
> > answer, then you will probably need to look deeper into your checking
> > account or consider the repair more closely.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[Doug]

My experience and what others tell me is factory new engines last
longer until overhaul. After all, they are NEW. It makes a difference.
Ideally it shouldn't, but it does.

[Newps]

Doug wrote:
> My experience and what others tell me is factory new engines last
> longer until overhaul. After all, they are NEW. It makes a difference.
> Ideally it shouldn't, but it does.
>


Perhaps with Lycoming. I wouldn't want a factory new Continental
because that means Continental cylinders.

[Mark Manes]

Just got engines for my T310-Q (TSIO 520-B). I had light Crankcases and non
VAR Crankshafts, so I couldn't get any core credit for either. So overhaul
was not an option. Called AirPower and found that there are no new TSIO
520-B's available. So I opted for factory remans. They dont care if the
cases are light or the cranks are non VAR. $31,000 each, included the
Turbo's. I was about 150 hrs over TBO and have replaced 5 cylinders in the
800 hrs I have owned the airplane. I had 2 first run rebuilt Milleniums
that never really had good compressions, so we didn't do that any more. The
3 new continentals are still on the old engines and still have compressions
over 75. That's just my experience your milage may vary! Call a couple of
the places and ask you may not get core credit for the cracked case. Good
Luck


Mark Manes
N28409

"f" > wrote in message
...
> Today was not a good day for the Baron. While replacing a cylinder I
> found a crack (confirmed with Dye Pent) off the #5 cylinder leading up
> towards the case halves.
>
> The engine has 2750 Hr since new and about 1000 Hr since a TW Smith
> overhaul. The case is repairable, but it seems like a waste to not do
> the overhaul.
>
> The question is has anyone recently purchased a Factory New engine? The
> cost is about $4K more but the parts are not a mix of old parts.
>
> The engine is an IO-470L.
>
> Any thoughts and opinions will be a great help.
>
> Paul
>

[Dave Stadt]

"Newps" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Doug wrote:
> > My experience and what others tell me is factory new engines last
> > longer until overhaul. After all, they are NEW. It makes a difference.
> > Ideally it shouldn't, but it does.
> >
>
>
> Perhaps with Lycoming. I wouldn't want a factory new Continental
> because that means Continental cylinders.

Nor Lycoming crankshafts. I'll take an old Conti with ECI or Superior
cylinders any day.

[[email protected]]

Opinion:

If you have a first run engine, you are a good candidate for a fancy
overhaul.
And you keep track of where all your low time parts are... they are in
YOUR engine.

If you have a rotten old engine, you are better off to go back to the
till for newer
parts. A factory reman. It usually is cheaper.

Horror stories abound on both sides of this one. YMMV. Bill Hale

[f]

Bill:

Good points and ones that really help to make my decision.

I have a second run engine that has had problems it's whole life. When I
bought the plane I priced it expecting the engine to fall short of TBO.
This is not a surprise, but I hate being without the plane.

I decided on the Superior Millennium Engine program. It is about the same
price as a factory remanufactured engine, but the specs and warranty are
better then the factory. Wish me luck and I'll report on how well it comes
out.

I must admit I was leaning towards a new engine, but I made two calls to
providers of new factory engines and the only way to guaranty a speedy
delivery date was to pay a 10% up charge. The thought of paying $31K for
the engine and another $3,100 for a three to four week delivery was the
deciding negative factor.

Thanks to all for the help, suggestion and good thoughts.

Paul Mandel
N43BS


> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Opinion:
>
> If you have a first run engine, you are a good candidate for a fancy
> overhaul.
> And you keep track of where all your low time parts are... they are in
> YOUR engine.
>
> If you have a rotten old engine, you are better off to go back to the
> till for newer
> parts. A factory reman. It usually is cheaper.
>
> Horror stories abound on both sides of this one. YMMV. Bill Hale
>

[Victor J. Osborne, Jr.]

I had good communication w/ Superior. I say communication b/c I didn't need
any warranty work. The 50,100, 250,500 hr reports w/ add to your maint.
cost although they do provide the pre-paid sample kits for required oil
analysis.

--

Thx, {|;-)

Victor J. (Jim) Osborne, Jr.

"f" > wrote in message
.. .
>
> I decided on the Superior Millennium Engine program. It is about the same
> price as a factory remanufactured engine, but the specs and warranty are
> better then the factory. Wish me luck and I'll report on how well it
> comes out.
>
>
> Paul Mandel
> N43BS