Come on Guys! Take this Challenge!

[Toks Desalu]

The message below was taken from AOPA website:
----------
Protect your freedom to fly by commenting on the ADIZ today. On Wednesday
one AOPA member put up this challenge to his fellow pilots: "Let's
see...we've got 400,000 AOPA members, 650,000 certificated pilots...and just
5,000 responses to this permanent-ADIZ proposal so far. C'mon folks...get
the word out to all your pilot friends!"
---------

Only 5000 responses!!?? AOPA needs you to comment at least!!!! It will only
take 10 minutes of your time. If you have the time to look at this
newsgroup, then you SURE have time to respond. Get your hand out of your
pant and take action. PROTECT YOUR FREEDOM OF FLYING by clicking on link to
AOPA's ADIZ Alert below:
http://www.aopa.org/adizalert/

Once you complete this, spread the words to other pilots! AOPA challenges
you.

you are, as Governor Schwarzenegger once said, "girly men" if you can't take
this challenge.

Toks Desalu
PP-ASEL
"Dyin' to Soar!"

[sfb]

You do understand that by Federal law, this is not a plebiscite. When
proposing a rule, an agency is only required to consider new or
different ideas that they may have overlooked. One idea suggested a
gazillion times is still but one idea.

"Toks Desalu" > wrote in message
news:WNV4f.25655$p_.5943@trndny05...
> The message below was taken from AOPA website:
> ----------
> Protect your freedom to fly by commenting on the ADIZ today. On
> Wednesday
> one AOPA member put up this challenge to his fellow pilots: "Let's
> see...we've got 400,000 AOPA members, 650,000 certificated
> pilots...and just
> 5,000 responses to this permanent-ADIZ proposal so far. C'mon
> folks...get
> the word out to all your pilot friends!"
> ---------
>
> Only 5000 responses!!?? AOPA needs you to comment at least!!!! It will
> only
> take 10 minutes of your time. If you have the time to look at this
> newsgroup, then you SURE have time to respond. Get your hand out of
> your
> pant and take action. PROTECT YOUR FREEDOM OF FLYING by clicking on
> link to
> AOPA's ADIZ Alert below:
> http://www.aopa.org/adizalert/
>
> Once you complete this, spread the words to other pilots! AOPA
> challenges
> you.
>
> you are, as Governor Schwarzenegger once said, "girly men" if you
> can't take
> this challenge.
>
> Toks Desalu
> PP-ASEL
> "Dyin' to Soar!"
>
>
>

[Vaughn]

"sfb" > wrote in message news:LeW4f.10652$l_2.3944@trnddc02...
> You do understand that by Federal law, this is not a plebiscite. When
> proposing a rule, an agency is only required to consider new or different
> ideas that they may have overlooked. One idea suggested a gazillion times is
> still but one idea.

Technically true; but administrative government and politics are
inseparable, even though the bureaucracy loves to pretend that it is not so.
In politics, numbers matter. Bureaucrats work for politicians, politicians work
for us (or at least depend on us for votes).

Vaughn Simon MPA

[Cecil Chapman]

Did it AND wrote to my senator and rep..

--
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil E. Chapman
CP-ASEL-IA

Student - C.F.I.

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -

[John Doe]

Ditto.

"Cecil Chapman" > wrote in message
om...
> Did it AND wrote to my senator and rep..
>
> --
> --
> =-----
> Good Flights!
>
> Cecil E. Chapman
> CP-ASEL-IA
>
> Student - C.F.I.
>
> Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
> checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
> Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com
>
> "I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
> - Antoine de Saint-Exupery -
>
> "We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
> this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
> - Cecil Day Lewis -
>

[Gene Whitt]

I went to the AOPA site and tried for forty minutes to follow the
directions and finally gave up. I did find a place where I could
make a response to AOPA about how they made the method of
response so difficult and complex that were it flight instruction,
no one would ever learn to fly.

Gene Whitt

[N93332]

"Gene Whitt" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>I went to the AOPA site and tried for forty minutes to follow the
> directions and finally gave up. I did find a place where I could
> make a response to AOPA about how they made the method of
> response so difficult and complex that were it flight instruction,
> no one would ever learn to fly.

I agree. I think I figured out how to leave a message about the ADIZ on the
http://dms.dot.gov/submit/ site. My last comment I left was asking if anyone
actually reads all of these messages.

Or are they just going for a number of messages?

-Greg B.

[Jay Beckman]

"N93332" > wrote in message
...
> "Gene Whitt" > wrote in message
> nk.net...
>>I went to the AOPA site and tried for forty minutes to follow the
>> directions and finally gave up. I did find a place where I could
>> make a response to AOPA about how they made the method of
>> response so difficult and complex that were it flight instruction,
>> no one would ever learn to fly.
>
> I agree. I think I figured out how to leave a message about the ADIZ on
> the http://dms.dot.gov/submit/ site. My last comment I left was asking if
> anyone actually reads all of these messages.
>
> Or are they just going for a number of messages?
>
> -Greg B.


Don't recall offhand if it was K Marx or V Lennin who, when asked why the
Soviet Military had tens of thousands of obsolete weapons in storage,
remarked:

"Because quantity has a quality of it's own..."

I think that if the powers that be see a significant volume of comments
opposing the proposed rule, they're gonna probably (I hope) notice.

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
AZ Cloudbusters
Chandler, AZ

[Dan Luke]

"Jay Beckman" wrote:

> Don't recall offhand if it was K Marx or V Lennin who, when asked why
> the Soviet Military had tens of thousands of obsolete weapons in
> storage, remarked:
>
> "Because quantity has a quality of it's own..."

Stalin said that in WWII. Karl Marx was dead long before there was a
Soviet Union.

> I think that if the powers that be see a significant volume of
> comments opposing the proposed rule, they're gonna probably (I hope)
> notice.

Maybe. The bureaucrats have become so timid after 9/11, though, that I
doubt they'll take even the slightest risk, real or perceived, WRT
protecting Washington against an attack.

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

[Jay Honeck]

> Maybe. The bureaucrats have become so timid after 9/11, though, that I
> doubt they'll take even the slightest risk, real or perceived, WRT
> protecting Washington against an attack.

That's funny -- I was just thinking how the danged bureaucrats had become so
*bold* since 9/11.

It's the populace that has become timid, in the face of the bloody
bureaucrats, in virtually all aspects of public life.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[George Patterson]

Jay Beckman wrote:

> Don't recall offhand if it was K Marx or V Lennin who, when asked why the
> Soviet Military had tens of thousands of obsolete weapons in storage,
> remarked:

Certainly neither. Both were dead long before the first nuclear weapon was created.

George Patterson
Drink is the curse of the land. It makes you quarrel with your neighbor.
It makes you shoot at your landlord. And it makes you miss him.

[Cecil Chapman]

> That's funny -- I was just thinking how the danged bureaucrats had become
> so *bold* since 9/11.

While you seem to be a very good person, unfortunately it's individuals like
you, with your blind 'yes I will follow' attitude who can so easily be led
down a path that are the greatest threat to our country. Remember that it's
'government by and FOR the people',,, not the other way around.

I can only say one thing in response to your comment. Historically, there
have been governments that have used fear to take an otherwise intelligent
populace into regimes of more restriction and strengthening of an
authoritarian, centralist government. One only need to look at the history
of the last 100 years to find numerous examples. Anyone who would turn
their eye to such examples is either a fool of the most tragic sort or if it
be ignorance of the latter; the effects are just as tragic. Anyone who
truly loves this country (and not just 'say the words') and all that it
stands for looks at some of the provisions of the "Patriot" Act, for example
and rightfully shudders with fear and revulsion.

To quote old Ben F.: "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a
little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

--
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil E. Chapman
CP-ASEL-IA

Student - C.F.I.

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -
"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message news:Iz65f.494213>

[Denny]

Mail your responses.. Letters carry vastly more weight than emails...
Emails will be counted, they won't be read past the opening sentence...
Every letter will separately opened and read... I put 6 letters into
the mail today on the ADIZ...

denny

[Jay Beckman]

"Dan Luke" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jay Beckman" wrote:
>
>> Don't recall offhand if it was K Marx or V Lennin who, when asked why the
>> Soviet Military had tens of thousands of obsolete weapons in storage,
>> remarked:
>>
>> "Because quantity has a quality of it's own..."
>
> Stalin said that in WWII. Karl Marx was dead long before there was a
> Soviet Union.

Thanks for the correction.

>> I think that if the powers that be see a significant volume of comments
>> opposing the proposed rule, they're gonna probably (I hope) notice.
>
> Maybe. The bureaucrats have become so timid after 9/11, though, that I
> doubt they'll take even the slightest risk, real or perceived, WRT
> protecting Washington against an attack.
>
> --
> Dan
> C172RG at BFM
>

[Jay Beckman]

"George Patterson" > wrote in message
news:qP75f.11323$f02.6132@trndny02...
> Jay Beckman wrote:
>
>> Don't recall offhand if it was K Marx or V Lennin who, when asked why the
>> Soviet Military had tens of thousands of obsolete weapons in storage,
>> remarked:
>
> Certainly neither. Both were dead long before the first nuclear weapon was
> >created.

Apparently it was Stalin. Thanks for the heads up.

Jay B

[George Patterson]

Jay Beckman wrote:

> Thanks for the heads up.

None are deserved. I misread your post.

George Patterson
Drink is the curse of the land. It makes you quarrel with your neighbor.
It makes you shoot at your landlord. And it makes you miss him.

[Cecil Chapman]

You know, Denny,,,, I wonder about that. I've heard 'jokes' (don't know if
they are true <grin>) that politicians will weigh the mailbags on various
issues and devote attention to the one with the most letters/weight.....
LOL!!!!

--
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil E. Chapman
CP-ASEL-IA

Student - C.F.I.

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -
"Denny" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Mail your responses.. Letters carry vastly more weight than emails...
> Emails will be counted, they won't be read past the opening sentence...
> Every letter will separately opened and read... I put 6 letters into
> the mail today on the ADIZ...
>
> denny
>

[Montblack]

("Cecil Chapman" wrote)
> You know, Denny,,,, I wonder about that. I've heard 'jokes' (don't know
> if they are true <grin>) that politicians will weigh the mailbags on
> various issues and devote attention to the one with the most
> letters/weight..... LOL!!!!


My niece worked in DC for a Senator. She said they seldom read e-mails but
always read snail mail.


Montblack

[Peter Duniho]

"Jay Beckman" > wrote in message
news:MS15f.77802$lq6.12852@fed1read01...
> [...]
> I think that if the powers that be see a significant volume of comments
> opposing the proposed rule, they're gonna probably (I hope) notice.

One need only look at the outcome of other recent FAA NPRM, in which
thousands of "against" comments were provided without changing the direction
of the rule-making, to udnerstand that commenting on this NPRM isn't going
to have an effect either.

Face it: at this point in the game, with the NPRM already written and
published, the rule is as good as made. Whichever FAA bureaucrats put this
whole thing together, there's no way they're going to admit it's a mistake.

Frankly, if anything, restricted airspace gives those FAA bureaucrats a
reason for being. It's the same reason ALL of our supposed "security
improvements" have been made: for some bizarre reason, the general public is
trusting those who get paid to create security to tell us how much security
we need.

Pete

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN]

Denny wrote:
> Mail your responses.. Letters carry vastly more weight than emails...
> Emails will be counted, they won't be read past the opening sentence...
> Every letter will separately opened and read... I put 6 letters into
> the mail today on the ADIZ...



I'm not so sure. I usually write an actual letter to my senators and the last
three responses were so generic I was unable to decypher what issue to which
they were responding. Since I write on a multitude of issues, it might be
helpful if they'd give a guy a hint.

Snailmail is no guarantee it's read any more carefully than email.




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

[George Patterson]

Montblack wrote:

> My niece worked in DC for a Senator. She said they seldom read e-mails
> but always read snail mail.

Was this recently? For a while there after the anthrax scare, congresscritters
avoided reading snail mail. It also took months for it to pass through the
security stuff. What's that like now?

George Patterson
Drink is the curse of the land. It makes you quarrel with your neighbor.
It makes you shoot at your landlord. And it makes you miss him.

[Montblack]

("George Patterson" wrote)
> Was this recently? For a while there after the anthrax scare,
> congresscritters avoided reading snail mail. It also took months for it to
> pass through the security stuff. What's that like now?


Before, during, and just a month or two after. She left. Anthrax security
was one of the reasons - having to deal with it, let alone having to even
consider it.


Montblack

[Jay Honeck]

>> That's funny -- I was just thinking how the danged bureaucrats had become
>> so *bold* since 9/11.
>
> While you seem to be a very good person, unfortunately it's individuals
> like you, with your blind 'yes I will follow' attitude who can so easily
> be led down a path that are the greatest threat to our country. Remember
> that it's 'government by and FOR the people',,, not the other way around.

Uh, Cecil, I believe you have misinterpreted my comment.

That was NOT meant to be a complimentary view of what our bureaucrats have
done. In fact, I'm appalled at the way our government is run primarily by
the bureaucrats, with the politicians doing little but trying to wag the
dog.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Dan Luke]

"Jay Honeck" wrote:

>> Maybe. The bureaucrats have become so timid after 9/11, though, that
>> I doubt they'll take even the slightest risk, real or perceived, WRT
>> protecting Washington against an attack.
>
> That's funny -- I was just thinking how the danged bureaucrats had
> become so *bold* since 9/11.

It doesn't take any boldness to create a bunch of regulations to cover
your ass.

> It's the populace that has become timid, in the face of the bloody
> bureaucrats, in virtually all aspects of public life.

Yes; we are to blame for putting up with this bullcrap.

--
Dan

"There ought to be limits to freedom."
- George W. Bush

[Jimmy B.]

George Patterson wrote:
> Montblack wrote:
>
>> My niece worked in DC for a Senator. She said they seldom read e-mails
>> but always read snail mail.
>
>
> Was this recently? For a while there after the anthrax scare,
> congresscritters avoided reading snail mail. It also took months for it
> to pass through the security stuff. What's that like now?
>
> George Patterson
> Drink is the curse of the land. It makes you quarrel with your
> neighbor.
> It makes you shoot at your landlord. And it makes you miss him.


Yeah, both of my senators have a statement on their WEB sites stating
that if you want them to see something, it has to be e-mail.

[Tom]

Exactly!

Add to that the fact there are about 400,000 members of AOPA, and about
600,000 pilots total, and one does not even have 1% of the voting population
to draw from.

We are not the AARP, or the NRA who the politicians actually listen to on
occasion.

These letter writing campaigns are a waste of time and mean nothing to these
guys.

Tom
"Peter Duniho" > wrote in message
...
> "Jay Beckman" > wrote in message
> news:MS15f.77802$lq6.12852@fed1read01...
>> [...]
>> I think that if the powers that be see a significant volume of comments
>> opposing the proposed rule, they're gonna probably (I hope) notice.
>
> One need only look at the outcome of other recent FAA NPRM, in which
> thousands of "against" comments were provided without changing the
> direction of the rule-making, to udnerstand that commenting on this NPRM
> isn't going to have an effect either.
>
> Face it: at this point in the game, with the NPRM already written and
> published, the rule is as good as made. Whichever FAA bureaucrats put
> this whole thing together, there's no way they're going to admit it's a
> mistake.
>
> Frankly, if anything, restricted airspace gives those FAA bureaucrats a
> reason for being. It's the same reason ALL of our supposed "security
> improvements" have been made: for some bizarre reason, the general public
> is trusting those who get paid to create security to tell us how much
> security we need.
>
> Pete
>

[Cecil Chapman]

> Uh, Cecil, I believe you have misinterpreted my comment.

Well okay,,,, then I apologize for the 'obscenity' I screamed when I saw
your post <wink>,,,, I said you were probably a helicopter pilot
masquerading as an fixed wing pilot.... I feel so ashamed,,, used the 'H'
word,,,, I feel dirty now......

:0(...... <<<<GRIN>>>>>> ;0)

--
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil E. Chapman
CP-ASEL-IA

Student - C.F.I.

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -

[Cecil Chapman]

> Dan
>
> "There ought to be limits to freedom."
> - George W. Bush

I like this one.... <snicker>

--
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil E. Chapman
CP-ASEL-IA

Student - C.F.I.

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -