Phraseology

[Thomas Myers]

What is the proper phraseology to alert the controller that you are being
vectored through the localizer?
I'm thinking something like:
Approach, N12345 vector through localizer?

Thanks,

Tom

[Scott Dommin]

"Approach, do you want us to join the localizer?"


"Thomas Myers" > wrote in
message ...
> What is the proper phraseology to alert the controller that you are being
> vectored through the localizer?
> I'm thinking something like:
> Approach, N12345 vector through localizer?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tom
>
>

[Sydney Hoeltzli]

Thomas Myers wrote:
> What is the proper phraseology to alert the controller that you are being
> vectored through the localizer?
> I'm thinking something like:
> Approach, N12345 vector through localizer?

Just give the facts.

They know you're on vectors, you don't need to tell them.

"Approach, N12345 is through the localizer"

Sydney

[Sydney Hoeltzli]

Scott Dommin wrote:
> "Approach, do you want us to join the localizer?"

Personally I leave my Sar Chasm on the ground when I talk to
ATC and if you're receiving vectors for the approach, that's
how the above comes across to me.

Cheers,
Sydney

[John Clonts]

Thomas Myers > wrote in message
...
> What is the proper phraseology to alert the controller that you are being
> vectored through the localizer?
> I'm thinking something like:
> Approach, N12345 vector through localizer?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tom

The time it happened to me, I said, "Approach, 7NZ is flying through the
localizer". He replied something like "that is correct, for spacing, I'll
turn you back on in a moment". But this was VMC, practice approach, at
Austin...

Cheers,
John Clonts
Temple, Texas

[Bob Gardner]

I don't see it as sarcasm....I've said the same thing hundreds of times.

Bob Gardner

"Sydney Hoeltzli" > wrote in message
...
> Scott Dommin wrote:
> > "Approach, do you want us to join the localizer?"
>
> Personally I leave my Sar Chasm on the ground when I talk to
> ATC and if you're receiving vectors for the approach, that's
> how the above comes across to me.
>
> Cheers,
> Sydney
>

[John Harper]

Just "345 is flying through the localizer". In my experience, you'll get
one of two responses:

-- "oops, intercept" (or one time "oops, too late to intercept, turn
heading so-and-so to return for intercept")
-- "affirmative, fly so-and-so for spacing"

In VMC it's no big deal. In IMC with terrain if I didn't get an
immediate response (or the freq was busy) I'd invoke 91.3 and
intercept. There have been fatalities from people crossing the loc
and hitting terrain. I'd rather not be one.

John

"John Clonts" > wrote in message
...
>
> Thomas Myers > wrote in
message
> ...
> > What is the proper phraseology to alert the controller that you are
being
> > vectored through the localizer?
> > I'm thinking something like:
> > Approach, N12345 vector through localizer?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Tom
>
> The time it happened to me, I said, "Approach, 7NZ is flying through the
> localizer". He replied something like "that is correct, for spacing, I'll
> turn you back on in a moment". But this was VMC, practice approach, at
> Austin...
>
> Cheers,
> John Clonts
> Temple, Texas
>
>

[Newps]

ATC is required to tell you when they will bring you across the
localizer or FAC.

JerryK wrote:

> It is defintely something I would ask about. Several times I have been on a
> vector and when I questioned ATC about they sounded suprised and gave me new
> instructions.
>
>
> "Thomas Myers" > wrote in
> message ...
>
>>What is the proper phraseology to alert the controller that you are being
>>vectored through the localizer?
>>I'm thinking something like:
>>Approach, N12345 vector through localizer?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Tom
>>
>>
>
>
>

[Thomas Myers]

Thanks for the many helpful replies.



"Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
news:fbYQa.59099$GL4.14780@rwcrnsc53...
> As you can tell from the responses that you hve received, there is no
> "proper" phraseology. The Air Traffic Control Handbook contains
phraseology
> that controllers are required to use...and they have quality control
> sessions to be sure that they are following the book. There is no such
> resource or requirement for pilots, with the exception of recommendations
in
> the AIM. Ralph Butcher has an article on point in the August Flight
Training
> Magazine.
>
> Bob Gardner
>
> "Thomas Myers" > wrote in
> message ...
> > What is the proper phraseology to alert the controller that you are
being
> > vectored through the localizer?
> > I'm thinking something like:
> > Approach, N12345 vector through localizer?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Tom
> >
> >
>
>

[Jim Baker]

"Kevin Chandler" > wrote in message
...
> I keep it very simple. Controllers make mistakes too. I simply say,
> "N12345 looking for a turn". This can be used as a friendly reminder to
> intercept. I also use this if I am vectored around something and I want
to
> make sure he did not forget about me.

I've used the same phrase in flying for over 30 years. C-150's to B-1Bs.
Works everytime.

JB

[Bud]

> In VMC it's no big deal. In IMC with terrain if I didn't get an
> immediate response (or the freq was busy) I'd invoke 91.3 and
> intercept. There have been fatalities from people crossing the loc
> and hitting terrain. I'd rather not be one.

Funny you bring that up...there's an airport with an ILS in a 3800' MVA that
we vector to final for all the time. When issuing a base leg turn, the
controllers tell the aircraft, "if no instructions are received prior to
reaching the localizer, intercept the localizer inbound and advise." The
airport is less than 5 miles from a 9500' MVA and the base leg points the
aircraft right at the Olympic Mountains! So in that instance, since the
pilot was instructed to intercept the LOC, that's what I'd expect.
Elsewhere, I'd just expect the pilot to say something like Scott wrote,
"Approach, N12345, do you want us to join the localizer?"

I don't take it as sarcastic if an aircraft advises me they're flying
thought the localizer. Most of my vectors to final are to a PAR or ACLS FAC
so if I make a late turn to final I usually have some final controller
yelling at me from across the room. If you have to advise me you're through
the FAC it's probably too late and I was probably busy with something else
and missed your turn to final since we're supposed to tell the aircraft when
to expect a vector across the FAC.

from 7110.65 (http://www2.faa.gov/atpubs/ATC/Chp5/atc0509.html#5-9-3):
5-9-3. VECTORS ACROSS FINAL APPROACH COURSE

Inform the aircraft whenever a vector will take it across the final approach
course and state the reason for such action.

NOTE-
In the event you are unable to so inform the aircraft, the pilot is not
expected to turn inbound on the final approach course unless approach
clearance has been issued.

PHRASEOLOGY-
EXPECT VECTORS ACROSS FINAL FOR (purpose).

EXAMPLE-
"EXPECT VECTORS ACROSS FINAL FOR SPACING."

REFERENCE-
FAAO 7110.65, Final Approach Course Interception, Para 5-9-2.


73,
Bud
--------------------------------------------------------------
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www.navydoula.com

And God Said, "Let there be electromagnetic radiation with a
wavelength range of 400nm to 700nm that travels with a speed
of about 186,281 miles per second in a vacuum."

[Sydney Hoeltzli]

Bud wrote:

> I don't take it as sarcastic if an aircraft advises me they're flying
> thought the localizer.

I haven't had it taken as sarcastic if I advise I'm through
the localizer. Statement of fact. That's where I am.

I have had it taken as sarcastic if I ask "do you want me to
join the localizer?" when I'm already through it. "Help me out
here, did I tell you to join the localizer? If I want you to
join the localizer, I'll tell you to join the localizer"

Dunno why, exactly. I do know the controller has goofed if he
hasn't advised me that I'll be vectored across prior to blowing
me through it. I suppose some take it as rubbing in the mistake,
even if it's just intended as an enquiry. I suppose others
think they did advise me "vector through the localizer for
spacing", and maybe they did and were blocked, or I missed it,
who knows.

Cheers,
Sydney

[Andrew Gideon]

Bob Gardner wrote:

> I don't see it as sarcasm....I've said the same thing hundreds of times.

Right. The controller might have some reason for you to not join at the
moment. That's occurred to me a few times - although I believe that I was
given a head's up on this from the controller each of those times.

- Andrew

[Tom Fleischman]

In article >, Andrew Gideon
> wrote:

> Bob Gardner wrote:
>
> > I don't see it as sarcasm....I've said the same thing hundreds of times.
>
> Right. The controller might have some reason for you to not join at the
> moment. That's occurred to me a few times - although I believe that I was
> given a head's up on this from the controller each of those times.

Yes, I've been told on several occasions, "Vectors through the final
approach course for faster traffic behing you", and then been vectored
back around to join the localizer from the other side.