Oximeter's

[NW_PILOT]

Why Are Oximeter's So Expensive? I was thinking of adding one to my flight
bag but at over $200.00 I am giving it a second thought.

[[email protected]]

In rec.aviation.owning NW_PILOT > wrote:
> Why Are Oximeter's So Expensive? I was thinking of adding one to my flight
> bag but at over $200.00 I am giving it a second thought.

You mean other than they aren't a mass marketed consumer item?

Good CO detectors aren't cheap either.

On the other hand, how much do you have invested in your training and
aircraft?

I'm constantly amazed by people that that don't blink at the cost of
a $100 hamburger but are reluctant to spend a similar amount on
an item that could alert them to a life threatening situtation, especially
since it will most likely be a once in a life time buy if you get a
good one.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

[Bill Zaleski]

When you agree to ferry airplanes around all day for $80, there is not
much left to spend on worthwhile things.



On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 05:15:03 GMT, wrote:

>In rec.aviation.owning NW_PILOT > wrote:
>> Why Are Oximeter's So Expensive? I was thinking of adding one to my flight
>> bag but at over $200.00 I am giving it a second thought.
>
>You mean other than they aren't a mass marketed consumer item?
>
>Good CO detectors aren't cheap either.
>
>On the other hand, how much do you have invested in your training and
>aircraft?
>
>I'm constantly amazed by people that that don't blink at the cost of
>a $100 hamburger but are reluctant to spend a similar amount on
>an item that could alert them to a life threatening situtation, especially
>since it will most likely be a once in a life time buy if you get a
>good one.

[Robert Chambers]

I did an O2 system for much less than that. I got hold of an O2 system
that emphysema patients drag around behind them (all I wanted was the
tank adapter and flowmeter) traded the old empty cylinder in on a fresh
full one. Had a nurse friend of mine procure a couple of nasal cannulas
and I'm good to go.

I don't fly high enough to use it, I carried it with me on the
cross-the-pond trip just in case.

I'm going to try it at night sometime to see if the vision thing is
noticeable.

Robert

Longworth wrote:
> Cecil,
> If I am not mistaken, using oxygen at night at low altitude is
> mainly to help with vision. We rarely fly at night except for night
> currency at local airport and maybe at twilight or shortly after sunset
> on long cross-country trips. The oximeter just tells you whether you
> need oxygen or not. By itself it does not help with high altitude or
> night flying except telling you that you'd better go lower or land ;-)
> I'd think that putting the 200+dollars towards the purchase of oxygen
> on board is a better idea. One person complete system sells for
> something like $450. Emergency hand-held system selling for something
> like $320.
>
> Hai Longworth
>

[Longworth]

Steven,
Not too long ago, Turnermedical.com had a sale special for pilots at
$150. Their current price is $199 with free shipping. If you don't
need one right away, you can wait for a sale. I had thought of
ordering one but Rick did not think that it was necessary, He thought
that if we needed to fly at high altitude (over 10,000'), we would just
use oxygen

http://www.turnermedical.com/Finger_Oximeters.htm

or you can pay $189 also with free delivery here

http://www.medical-monitors.com/spo5500.html


Hai Longworth

[Cecil Chapman]

Unless, of course you are flying at night...

--
--
=-----
Good Flights!

Cecil E. Chapman
CP-ASEL-IA

Student - C.F.I.

Check out my personal flying adventures from my first flight to the
checkride AND the continuing adventures beyond!
Complete with pictures and text at: www.bayareapilot.com

"I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery -

"We who fly, do so for the love of flying. We are alive in the air with
this miracle that lies in our hands and beneath our feet"
- Cecil Day Lewis -
"Longworth" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Steven,
> Not too long ago, Turnermedical.com had a sale special for pilots at
> $150. Their current price is $199 with free shipping. If you don't
> need one right away, you can wait for a sale. I had thought of
> ordering one but Rick did not think that it was necessary, He thought
> that if we needed to fly at high altitude (over 10,000'), we would just
> use oxygen
>
> http://www.turnermedical.com/Finger_Oximeters.htm
>
> or you can pay $189 also with free delivery here
>
> http://www.medical-monitors.com/spo5500.html
>
>
> Hai Longworth
>

[Longworth]

Cecil,
If I am not mistaken, using oxygen at night at low altitude is
mainly to help with vision. We rarely fly at night except for night
currency at local airport and maybe at twilight or shortly after sunset
on long cross-country trips. The oximeter just tells you whether you
need oxygen or not. By itself it does not help with high altitude or
night flying except telling you that you'd better go lower or land ;-)
I'd think that putting the 200+dollars towards the purchase of oxygen
on board is a better idea. One person complete system sells for
something like $450. Emergency hand-held system selling for something
like $320.

Hai Longworth

[Darrel Toepfer]

Longworth wrote:
> He thought that if we needed to fly at high altitude
> (over 10,000'), we would just use oxygen

Nice thing about the pulse oximeters is that they tell you exactly how
much oxygen you need...

[RomeoMike]

Assuming that you don't have health issues that would make your
hemoglobin less saturated with oxygen at altitude than normal, and
assuming that you don't intend to challenge FARs pertaining to the use
of oxygen, what do you see as the value of carrying an oximeter?

NW_PILOT wrote:
> Why Are Oximeter's So Expensive? I was thinking of adding one to my flight
> bag but at over $200.00 I am giving it a second thought.
>
>

[Peter Duniho]

"RomeoMike" > wrote in message
...
> Assuming that you don't have health issues that would make your hemoglobin
> less saturated with oxygen at altitude than normal, and assuming that you
> don't intend to challenge FARs pertaining to the use of oxygen, what do
> you see as the value of carrying an oximeter?

I can't speak for the original poster. However...

An oximeter provides useful information, even if you don't have specific
health issues, and aren't intending "to challenge FARs pertaining to the use
of oxygen" (whatever that means).

The FARs require the use of oxygen. They don't stipulate how much to use.
So, you can either rely on the calibration of your oxygen equipment, or you
can get some actual feedback on whether you are getting enough oxygen. The
latter (via an oximeter) may either show you that your own physiology
requires more O2 than normal or (more likely) that you can use less oxygen
than the likely conservative flow provided by the O2 equipment.

Beyond that very useful information, it also provides feedback regarding the
performance of your oxygen supply. It's one extra check on whether you are
getting enough oxygen, to help ensure that something doesn't go wrong
without the pilot knowing about it.

Hope that helps.

Pete

[NW_PILOT]

Go the FAA Physiological Training Altitude Chamber What An Experiance.


"Robert Chambers" > wrote in message
.. .
> I did an O2 system for much less than that. I got hold of an O2 system
> that emphysema patients drag around behind them (all I wanted was the
> tank adapter and flowmeter) traded the old empty cylinder in on a fresh
> full one. Had a nurse friend of mine procure a couple of nasal cannulas
> and I'm good to go.
>
> I don't fly high enough to use it, I carried it with me on the
> cross-the-pond trip just in case.
>
> I'm going to try it at night sometime to see if the vision thing is
> noticeable.
>
> Robert
>
> Longworth wrote:
> > Cecil,
> > If I am not mistaken, using oxygen at night at low altitude is
> > mainly to help with vision. We rarely fly at night except for night
> > currency at local airport and maybe at twilight or shortly after sunset
> > on long cross-country trips. The oximeter just tells you whether you
> > need oxygen or not. By itself it does not help with high altitude or
> > night flying except telling you that you'd better go lower or land ;-)
> > I'd think that putting the 200+dollars towards the purchase of oxygen
> > on board is a better idea. One person complete system sells for
> > something like $450. Emergency hand-held system selling for something
> > like $320.
> >
> > Hai Longworth
> >

[NW_PILOT]

It don't matter How High you are our having any health issues. One can
experience Hypoxia at lower altitudes it all depends on a number of factors
air density, food intake, sleep, dehydration, ect.


"RomeoMike" > wrote in message
...
> Assuming that you don't have health issues that would make your
> hemoglobin less saturated with oxygen at altitude than normal, and
> assuming that you don't intend to challenge FARs pertaining to the use
> of oxygen, what do you see as the value of carrying an oximeter?
>
> NW_PILOT wrote:
> > Why Are Oximeter's So Expensive? I was thinking of adding one to my
flight
> > bag but at over $200.00 I am giving it a second thought.
> >
> >

[Longworth]

Darrel,
Yeah, it's a nice thing to have but not essential to the pilot's
health or safety except the extreme cases. Not sure how expensive is
an oxygen system integrated with an oximeter (on-demand system) but
unless one is concerned about running out of oxygen, there is no point
of messing around manually with the regulator while flying. I'd be
curious to see how many pilots use the oximeter while using oxygen.

Hai Longworth

[Longworth]

Steven,

I agree. However, it one is in good health, don't smoke, go through
the IMSAFE checklist before every flight, hypoxia risk at low altitudes
should be quite minimum. BTW, for us, the E part is very important ;-)
we always pack plenty of food and water for any flights short or long.

It's the same issue with the risk of getting the bend while diving.
I had witnessed two cases of so-called 'undeserved hit' where the
divers did not violate any safety rules and did not do any
decompression dives. In one case, the diver was on a diet (on a
liveaboard with 5 dives a day) and had a sunbath right after a dive.
Another case, the guy stayed up late bar hopping the night before.
Both divers had sophisticated dive computers monitoring their N2 levels
etc.. but good equipment can't help with poor health condition.

Hai Longworth

[Kyler Laird]

"Peter Duniho" > writes:

>The FARs require the use of oxygen. They don't stipulate how much to use.
>So, you can either rely on the calibration of your oxygen equipment, or you
>can get some actual feedback on whether you are getting enough oxygen.

Indeed. Once on the way home (Indiana) from California I stopped in Colorado
and needed oxygen. They didn't have the required fitting so I flew home with
what I had knowing I could always go lower if I ran out though it would
probably mean an extra stop for fuel. (I was VFR and it was VMC all the way
home. We have a big O2 tank and only two people.)

I reduced my wife's oxygen flow (because she was just resting anyway) but
when we crossed the Mississippi and she couldn't think of the word "barge" I
stuck her finger in the oximeter. She wasn't terribly low but she was lower
than usual so we increased her flow a bit.

And before I got the oximiter there was the time that I almost passed out
because I didn't notice my cannula had slipped while I was relieving myself
over the Rockies...

--kyler

[Darrel Toepfer]

Longworth wrote:
> Darrel,
> Yeah, it's a nice thing to have but not essential to the pilot's
> health or safety except the extreme cases. Not sure how expensive is
> an oxygen system integrated with an oximeter (on-demand system) but
> unless one is concerned about running out of oxygen, there is no point
> of messing around manually with the regulator while flying. I'd be
> curious to see how many pilots use the oximeter while using oxygen.

We do in the Lancair...

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN]

Kyler Laird wrote:
> And before I got the oximiter there was the time that I almost passed out
> because I didn't notice my cannula had slipped while I was relieving myself
> over the Rockies...


If I had to guess, I'd say there was a good chance everybody else on that flight
came close to passing out when you relieved yourself over the Rockies.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

[Mark Hansen]

On 11/23/2005 4:00 PM, Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:
> Kyler Laird wrote:
>> And before I got the oximiter there was the time that I almost passed out
>> because I didn't notice my cannula had slipped while I was relieving myself
>> over the Rockies...
>
>
> If I had to guess, I'd say there was a good chance everybody else on that flight
> came close to passing out when you relieved yourself over the Rockies.
>

.... not to mention the poor folks on the ground!

;-)


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Sacramento, CA

[Ron Lee]

I'd be curious to see how many pilots use the oximeter while using
oxygen.

I don't. I may look at my nails periodically.

Ron Lee

[Marc J. Zeitlin]

Hai Longworth wrote:

> Yeah, it's a nice thing to have but not essential to the pilot's
> health or safety except the extreme cases.

I'll disagree about "only in extreme cases". For a long time, I was
willing to fly at 12.5K ft without using O2. Every once in a while I'd
turn it on if I was feeling very tired, or was yawning a lot, and once
at 13.5K ft I THOUGHT I had turned it on, but hadn't, for a 2 hour leg.
I now think that having a pulse oximeter is an extremely useful tool to
tell you how well YOU'RE performing - we monitor the heck out of the
planes, but don't do a very good job of monitoring ourselves. The SpO2
monitor is a way of doing just that.

At any rate, here's a message I posted to the COZY mailing list
regarding an experiment (not controlled, but interesting nontheless) I
did earlier in the week:


We had previously had a discussion about SpO2 levels vs. time at
altitude.

So I flew to Las Vegas from Mojave today to pick up my wife, coming home
commercial. I took a different route - through the "Trona" gap, over
L72, and just south of China Lake. It's faster (more direct), but I had
to go higher to avoid mountains. On the way there, I decided to use my
SpO2 sensor to watch my O2 levels as I climbed without supplemental O2.

As I passed through 8K ft., I put on the gizmo. My SpO2 levels were in
the low 90's, and when I leveled out at 9500 ft., within a couple of
minutes at the most my SPO2 levels evened out at about 87%. Not great,
but OK for a while. After about 1/2 hour there, I climbed up to 11.5K
ft. for radar coverage, and within a minute my SpO2 levels were down to
78%. I did NOT put O2 on, but monitored my levels, which stayed at 78%.
I was yawning a bit, and deep breathing could raise the levels for a
short period, but when I went back to regular breathing, it would drop
back to 78%. After about 15 minutes at that level, I was cleared to
descend into LAS, and by the time I got down to about 6K ft, my SpO2
levels were back in the low 90's.

It seems clear that it takes very little time for the SpO2 levels to
change and stabilize when climbing and/or descending - a minute or so at
the most, at least for me.

On the way back, I set up the O2 system for both my wife and myself (she
gets headaches at 9K - 10K ft and above, it seems) and we headed out.
At 10.5K ft going west, with the O2 set to one liter/min for both of us,
our SpO2 levels were in the mid 90's - 96% for my wife, and 95% for me.
Personally, I didn't _feel_ much different, although I was definitely
yawning a lot less. I do know that I'm a lot less fatigued after O2
use.

It seems that _I_ should use O2 anytime above 10.5K ft, no matter what
the regs say - for my wife, it's about 9.5K ft for comfort reasons. It
also seems clear that there's no "reservoir" of O2 that's used up as you
climb - your SpO2 levels are dependent upon altitude, and not really on
the time at that altitude - a minute isn't very long.

--
Marc J. Zeitlin
http://www.cozybuilders.org/
Copyright (c) 2005

[Longworth]

Marc,
Your experiment appears to confirm our thinking that we should be
oxygen when flying above 10K. In our last several long cross-country
trips, we flew at 9K and 10K approximately 3-4hrs stretches and did not
feel tired or any differences from flying at lower altitudes. Others
may need oxygen at lower elevation. I knew few heavy smokers with
limited lung capacity having to drag oxygen bottles along all day. Of
course the oximeter is a very useful device but oxygen supply is the
key to our health and safety. I'm not at all against the use of
oximeter but would certainly get O2 bottles before buying an oximeter.
Come to think of it, yawning is a pretty good oximeter too ;-)

Hai Longworth

[Longworth]

Marc,

Your experiment seemed to confirm our thinkng that we would need
oxygen if flying over 10,000ft. Last July on our trip from NY to MI,
when ATC asked us to climb from 8K to 10K, we were a bit concerned but
was glad to see that our performance did not seem to suffer. In the
next 3 long x-country trips, we filed at 10K and 9K and taking turns
flying 3-4hrs stretches. Again, we never noticed any problems. Of
course, we tried to have plenty of water and food. Few years ago, in
our trip to Ecuador, we stayed at Quito, 10K elevation for several
days. The first night, we both had headaches from dehydration and had
to drink quite a few of the hotel $3.5 Evian bottles!

The levels which you monitored also in the range indicated in this
article
http://www.mountainflying.com/oxygen.htm

"The atmospheric pressure decrease at 10,000-foot altitude causes 523mm
Hg ambient air pressure resulting in 87 percent hemoglobin saturation
and 61mm Hg arterial oxygen."

"The body requires hemoglobin saturations of 87-97 percent and arterial
oxygen at 60-100mm Hg (millimeters of mercury) in order to function
normally. Below this level the body is hypoxic"

I'd expect that smokers or people with emphysema etc. may have lower
hemoglobin saturation at lower altitudes.

My thinking was that as long as we take precaution to use oxygen at
above 10K, we would not need to monitor our body oxygen level if we
remain healthy. Your experience and others convinced me that the
oximeter is a very useful device and may be worth getting. I still
plan to get the Oxygen supply first and will rely on yawning to monitor
our fatigue until there is a good sale on the oximeter ;-)

Hai Longworth

[Jose]

> I'm not at all against the use of
> oximeter but would certainly get O2 bottles before buying an oximeter.

I'd get the meter before buying the bottles. You may find by using the
meter that you don't need oxygen at the altitudes you do fly, and you
may find that you need more oxygen than you thought (because you need it
lower) and that would influence whether and what size oxygen to get.

And it just bugs me that the thread title is in the possessive.

Jose
--
He who laughs, lasts.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Roger]

Just Deleteting the (') from the thread name.
:-)

"Jose" > wrote in message
t...
>> I'm not at all against the use of
>> oximeter but would certainly get O2 bottles before buying an oximeter.
>
> I'd get the meter before buying the bottles. You may find by using the
> meter that you don't need oxygen at the altitudes you do fly, and you may
> find that you need more oxygen than you thought (because you need it
> lower) and that would influence whether and what size oxygen to get.
>
> And it just bugs me that the thread title is in the possessive.
>
> Jose
> --
> He who laughs, lasts.
> for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Ken Reed]

>> I'd be curious to see how many pilots use the oximeter while
>> using oxygen.

100% of the time.
---
Ken Reed
N960CM

[David Lesher]

Kyler Laird > writes:


>I reduced my wife's oxygen flow (because she was just resting anyway) but
>when we crossed the Mississippi and she couldn't think of the word "barge" I
>stuck her finger in the oximeter. She wasn't terribly low but she was lower
>than usual so we increased her flow a bit.

Ed Gauss, the Alaska bush pilot, had another approach. His wife
would fall asleep without O2, and he liked the company. So she'd
play the harmonica -- that raised her respiration and kept them
both alert...
--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

[Victor J. Osborne, Jr.]

> 100% of the time.

Ditto. Used it yesterday when above 10,000. When cleared to 15,000 w/ a
70kt tailwind, I went without worry.

And FWIW, I'd rather use it often and find the oximeter isn't working when
it isn't critical then get it repaired.
--

Thx, {|;-)

Victor J. (Jim) Osborne, Jr.

"Ken Reed" > wrote in message
...
> >> I'd be curious to see how many pilots use the oximeter while
> >> using oxygen.
>
> 100% of the time.
> ---
> Ken Reed
> N960CM

[Viperdoc]

Oxygen deprivation can be very insidious, and can worsen with time at
altitude. The symptoms of hypoxia also vary from individual to individual.
We had a recent experience of flying at 10,000 for several hours when my
son, who normally is a great passenger got very agitated and complained of a
headache. His O2 saturation was 83%, and mine was running at around 85. We
all put on the oxygen, and the headaches and fatigue went away, and for me,
my color vision improved tremendously.

I strongly recommend that any pilot go through an altitude chamber ride. It
is very informative and a great experience. More importantly, it well help
you recognize your individual symptoms of hypoxia.

[Sylvain]

Viperdoc wrote:
> I strongly recommend that any pilot go through an altitude chamber ride.

I'll second that; really worth your time... I went to
Beale AFB and it was really educational (the ground
school part is quite intensive and was given by an
officer who flies U2 for a living);

you can read about it here:

http://www.faa.gov/pilots/safety/pilotsafetybrochures/media/PT_06272005_web.pdf


--Sylvain