Connecting enroute to approach charts

[Ron Garret]

I'm going VNY->LAS. DUATS auto routing came up with a route that ends
at OASYS on V394. Trick is, OASYS is not an IAF for any approach into
LAS as far as I can tell. What should I do if I lose comm?

A related question: some approaches into LAS have IAFs that I can't find
on the enroute chart (e.g. SKEBR on the RWY1 RNAV approaches). How
would you ever get to SKEBR?

In general, how are approach plates supposed to hook up to the enroute
structure? I thought all the IAFs were supposed to appear on the
enroute charts, but they seem not to.

Thanks,
rg

[Tim]

Ron Garret wrote:
> I'm going VNY->LAS. DUATS auto routing came up with a route that ends
> at OASYS on V394. Trick is, OASYS is not an IAF for any approach into
> LAS as far as I can tell. What should I do if I lose comm?
>
> A related question: some approaches into LAS have IAFs that I can't find
> on the enroute chart (e.g. SKEBR on the RWY1 RNAV approaches). How
> would you ever get to SKEBR?
>
> In general, how are approach plates supposed to hook up to the enroute
> structure? I thought all the IAFs were supposed to appear on the
> enroute charts, but they seem not to.
SKEBR is supposed to be on an airway. That doesn't mean it has to
appear on the enroute chart though. It should be apparent if you
construct the IAP on a moving map

[Kris Kortokrax]

"Ron Garret" > wrote in message
...
> A related question: some approaches into LAS have IAFs that I can't find
> on the enroute chart (e.g. SKEBR on the RWY1 RNAV approaches). How
> would you ever get to SKEBR?

SKEBR shows on the CLARR TWO arrival and the KEPEC ONE arrival.

Kris

[John Clonts]

>A related question: some approaches into LAS have IAFs that I can't find
>on the enroute chart (e.g. SKEBR on the RWY1 RNAV approaches). How
>would you ever get to SKEBR?

You punch S-K-E-B-R into your RNAV unit (GPS)?

[Ron Garret]

In article . com>,
"John Clonts" > wrote:

> >A related question: some approaches into LAS have IAFs that I can't find
> >on the enroute chart (e.g. SKEBR on the RWY1 RNAV approaches). How
> >would you ever get to SKEBR?
>
> You punch S-K-E-B-R into your RNAV unit (GPS)?

OK, I guess I should not chosen a GPS approach for the example.

Suppose I don't have a GPS, and I want to fly the VOR/DME-A
(http://naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0512/00662VDA.PDF). The IAF is KACCY, which
doesn't appear on the enroute chart and is not on any airway, and
doesn't have a feeder route. How do I get there?

rg

[Mark Hansen]

On 12/1/2005 08:45, Ron Garret wrote:

> In article . com>,
> "John Clonts" > wrote:
>
>> >A related question: some approaches into LAS have IAFs that I can't find
>> >on the enroute chart (e.g. SKEBR on the RWY1 RNAV approaches). How
>> >would you ever get to SKEBR?
>>
>> You punch S-K-E-B-R into your RNAV unit (GPS)?
>
> OK, I guess I should not chosen a GPS approach for the example.
>
> Suppose I don't have a GPS, and I want to fly the VOR/DME-A
> (http://naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0512/00662VDA.PDF). The IAF is KACCY, which
> doesn't appear on the enroute chart and is not on any airway, and
> doesn't have a feeder route. How do I get there?
>
> rg

KACCY is on a feeder route. Have a look at Boulder City VOR (BLD).
The line running from there to KACCY intersection along BLD R-225
is a feeder route (it has the three prerequisites: Altitude (7100),
distance (21.7) and direction (225 deg).

I don't have the enroute chart, but is Boulder City VOR not on it?

--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Sacramento, CA

[Kris Kortokrax]

>> Suppose I don't have a GPS, and I want to fly the VOR/DME-A
>> (http://naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0512/00662VDA.PDF). The IAF is KACCY, which
>> doesn't appear on the enroute chart and is not on any airway, and doesn't
>> have a feeder route. How do I get there?
>>
>> rg
>
> KACCY is on a feeder route. Have a look at Boulder City VOR (BLD).
> The line running from there to KACCY intersection along BLD R-225
> is a feeder route (it has the three prerequisites: Altitude (7100),
> distance (21.7) and direction (225 deg).
>
> I don't have the enroute chart, but is Boulder City VOR not on it?
>
> --
> Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
> Sacramento, CA

The VOR/DME-A also shows a transition from LAS to KACCY, 7100', 180 deg.,
16.5 miles

Kris

[Ron Garret]

In article >,
"Kris Kortokrax" > wrote:

> >> Suppose I don't have a GPS, and I want to fly the VOR/DME-A
> >> (http://naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0512/00662VDA.PDF). The IAF is KACCY, which
> >> doesn't appear on the enroute chart and is not on any airway, and doesn't
> >> have a feeder route. How do I get there?
> >>
> >> rg
> >
> > KACCY is on a feeder route. Have a look at Boulder City VOR (BLD).
> > The line running from there to KACCY intersection along BLD R-225
> > is a feeder route (it has the three prerequisites: Altitude (7100),
> > distance (21.7) and direction (225 deg).

Ah, so it is. I was looking at the other end of the arrow, and it was a
thin line so I assumed it was just a radial for identifying KACCY.

> The VOR/DME-A also shows a transition from LAS to KACCY, 7100', 180 deg.,
> 16.5 miles

Ah, I see. Thanks!

OK, this is all starting to make more sense now.

rg

[Mark Hansen]

On 12/1/2005 10:19, Ron Garret wrote:

> In article >,
> "Kris Kortokrax" > wrote:
>
>> >> Suppose I don't have a GPS, and I want to fly the VOR/DME-A
>> >> (http://naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0512/00662VDA.PDF). The IAF is KACCY, which
>> >> doesn't appear on the enroute chart and is not on any airway, and doesn't
>> >> have a feeder route. How do I get there?
>> >>
>> >> rg
>> >
>> > KACCY is on a feeder route. Have a look at Boulder City VOR (BLD).
>> > The line running from there to KACCY intersection along BLD R-225
>> > is a feeder route (it has the three prerequisites: Altitude (7100),
>> > distance (21.7) and direction (225 deg).
>
> Ah, so it is. I was looking at the other end of the arrow, and it was a
> thin line so I assumed it was just a radial for identifying KACCY.

This is a lot easier to see on the Jeppesen charts. The difference between
the three types of lines is much more pronounced. They really are thin,
medium and thick ;-)

You can see that the first part of the line running from BLD is heaver,
up to the first arrow (which is just outside the 10NM ring).

If you are having a hard time seeing this on the PDF version, try increasing
the magnification. It becomes clearer then.


>
>> The VOR/DME-A also shows a transition from LAS to KACCY, 7100', 180 deg.,
>> 16.5 miles
>
> Ah, I see. Thanks!
>
> OK, this is all starting to make more sense now.
>
> rg


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Sacramento, CA

[Marty]

>I'm going VNY->LAS. DUATS auto routing came up with a route that ends
>at OASYS on V394. Trick is, OASYS is not an IAF for any approach into
>LAS as far as I can tell. What should I do if I lose comm?

Comm loss is covered in the AIM Chapter 6 Section 4.
Please see the link below

http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/aim/Chap6/aim0604.html#6-4-2

[Tim]

Ron Garret wrote:

>
> Suppose I don't have a GPS, and I want to fly the VOR/DME-A
> (http://naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0512/00662VDA.PDF). The IAF is KACCY, which
> doesn't appear on the enroute chart and is not on any airway, and
> doesn't have a feeder route. How do I get there?
>
> rg

Doesn't haven a feeder route? What's that coming down from BLD?

[Daniel Roesen]

* Tim >:
>> Suppose I don't have a GPS, and I want to fly the VOR/DME-A
>> (http://naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0512/00662VDA.PDF). The IAF is KACCY, which
>> doesn't appear on the enroute chart and is not on any airway, and
>> doesn't have a feeder route. How do I get there?
>
> Doesn't haven a feeder route? What's that coming down from BLD?

If I understand this chart correctly, you fly from BLD to KACCY, after
KACCY procedure turn to the left to align with the final approach course
360 back to KACCY. Correct?

Best regards,
Daniel

[Mark Hansen]

On 12/1/2005 14:51, Daniel Roesen wrote:

> * Tim >:
>>> Suppose I don't have a GPS, and I want to fly the VOR/DME-A
>>> (http://naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0512/00662VDA.PDF). The IAF is KACCY, which
>>> doesn't appear on the enroute chart and is not on any airway, and
>>> doesn't have a feeder route. How do I get there?
>>
>> Doesn't haven a feeder route? What's that coming down from BLD?
>
> If I understand this chart correctly, you fly from BLD to KACCY, after
> KACCY procedure turn to the left to align with the final approach course
> 360 back to KACCY. Correct?
>
> Best regards,
> Daniel

That's right. But the final approach fix is actually at NICZU, 7 miles later.

--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Sacramento, CA

[Daniel Roesen]

* Mark Hansen >:
>>>> Suppose I don't have a GPS, and I want to fly the VOR/DME-A
>>>> (http://naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0512/00662VDA.PDF). The IAF is KACCY, which
>>>> doesn't appear on the enroute chart and is not on any airway, and
>>>> doesn't have a feeder route. How do I get there?
>>>
>>> Doesn't haven a feeder route? What's that coming down from BLD?
>>
>> If I understand this chart correctly, you fly from BLD to KACCY, after
>> KACCY procedure turn to the left to align with the final approach course
>> 360 back to KACCY. Correct?
>
> That's right. But the final approach fix is actually at NICZU, 7 miles later.

Uhm, nobody mentioned the FAF?!?

Best regards,
Daniel