Another difference between the US and Canada.

[Roger Halstead]

I had a friend ask me today how I'd cancel a flight plane that I had
never activated.

I gave the usual answer...If I never activated it, I don't need to
cancel it. If I haven't activated it past the closing time it gets
dropped. Canceling one that has been activated and flown is
*usually* not a problem either unless landing at an airport with the
tower closed. Then it's a call to FSS.

It appears that one of the locals had filed a flight plan from
Michigan to Ontario for this morning and another for the trip home.
While getting ready to leave, his friend called and said they weren't
going to make it. So, not having activated his plan he went home.

As I understand it, he received a call this afternoon wondering where
he was. They were out looking for him in Canada.

It seems as in Canada they treat a filed IFR flight plan *similar* to
one that is activated. IF you don't go, remember to cancel, or they
will send some one out to look for you.

This would never come up in most parts of the country, but with
bordering states there are many border crossing flights.

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)

[Tim Bengtson]

Roger Halstead wrote:

> It seems as in Canada they treat a filed IFR flight plan *similar* to
> one that is activated. IF you don't go, remember to cancel, or they
> will send some one out to look for you.

Hypothetically, if he was also given a clearance over the phone along
with a void time, isn't he presumed to have departed? Then it becomes a
lost comm situation.

Tim

[Bob Gardner]

I have had the same thing happen in the US, albeit a long time ago. The FSS
just assumed that I had departed as planned.

Bob Gardner

"Roger Halstead" > wrote in message
...
>
> I had a friend ask me today how I'd cancel a flight plane that I had
> never activated.
>
> I gave the usual answer...If I never activated it, I don't need to
> cancel it. If I haven't activated it past the closing time it gets
> dropped. Canceling one that has been activated and flown is
> *usually* not a problem either unless landing at an airport with the
> tower closed. Then it's a call to FSS.
>
> It appears that one of the locals had filed a flight plan from
> Michigan to Ontario for this morning and another for the trip home.
> While getting ready to leave, his friend called and said they weren't
> going to make it. So, not having activated his plan he went home.
>
> As I understand it, he received a call this afternoon wondering where
> he was. They were out looking for him in Canada.
>
> It seems as in Canada they treat a filed IFR flight plan *similar* to
> one that is activated. IF you don't go, remember to cancel, or they
> will send some one out to look for you.
>
> This would never come up in most parts of the country, but with
> bordering states there are many border crossing flights.
>
> Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
> www.rogerhalstead.com
> N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Bob Gardner" > wrote in message
news:dOx_a.138209$Ho3.17031@sccrnsc03...
>
> I have had the same thing happen in the US, albeit a long time ago. The
FSS
> just assumed that I had departed as planned.
>

They certainly shouldn't do that with an IFR flight plan.

[David Megginson]

Roger Halstead > writes:

> It seems as in Canada they treat a filed IFR flight plan *similar*
> to one that is activated. IF you don't go, remember to cancel, or
> they will send some one out to look for you.

That applies to Canadian VFR flight plans as well -- they are opened
automatically unless you cancel them.


All the best,


David

--
David Megginson, , http://www.megginson.com/

[Newps]

Bob Gardner wrote:

>>As I understand it, he received a call this afternoon wondering where
>>he was. They were out looking for him in Canada.
>>
>>It seems as in Canada they treat a filed IFR flight plan *similar* to
>>one that is activated. IF you don't go, remember to cancel, or they
>>will send some one out to look for you.

How would the Canadians even know he had filed? Until he takes off the
next sectors down the line don't have a clue he has even filed.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Newps" > wrote in message
et...
>
> How would the Canadians even know he had filed? Until he takes off the
> next sectors down the line don't have a clue he has even filed.
>

He filed a return trip.

[[email protected]]

On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 22:12:54 -0400, vincent p. norris > wrote:

> >That applies to Canadian VFR flight plans as well -- they are opened
> >automatically unless you cancel them.
>
> On several trips through Canada to Alaska, we would receive a radio
> call from the wx briefer after we took off, saying our flight plan
> had been opened.
>
> He wouldn't have opened it, would he, had we not taken off?

Yes, it will be automatically opened at the estimated departure time. I had
this happen to me, when i was delayed on the ground at CYEE, and was unable
to contact the Canadian FSS. By the time I finally got airborne, when I
established contact, they were just about ready to start SAR procedures.

>
> Were you speaking of airports without wx briefers? (E.g., on landing
> at Stephenville, a field at the western edge of Newfoundland, we
> discovered the voice we were talking to belonged to a guy in St.
> John's. Obviously he'd have trouble seeing us take off.)
>
> vince norris

[Roger Halstead]

On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 21:52:30 -0400, wrote:

>On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 22:12:54 -0400, vincent p. norris > wrote:
>
>> >That applies to Canadian VFR flight plans as well -- they are opened
>> >automatically unless you cancel them.
>>
>> On several trips through Canada to Alaska, we would receive a radio
>> call from the wx briefer after we took off, saying our flight plan
>> had been opened.
>>
>> He wouldn't have opened it, would he, had we not taken off?
>
>Yes, it will be automatically opened at the estimated departure time. I had
>this happen to me, when i was delayed on the ground at CYEE, and was unable
>to contact the Canadian FSS. By the time I finally got airborne, when I
>established contact, they were just about ready to start SAR procedures.

Taken to the other extreme here in the states...I flew down to Lee
Gilmer (LGM) in Gainsville GA some years ago around Christmas time. I
was on a VFR flight plan with flight following.

Atlanta Center kept me wayyyy up high until we were past the mountains
and then we circled to get down to land at LGM. Of course we could
not copy Atlanta all the way down. We landed some where between 11 and
12 (midnight). I could not find a working phone. Not even at our
hotel. I kept driving around looking for pay phones till I finally
found one something like 4 hours after our scheduled arrival time. We
actually landed quite a bit after the ETA.

I finally got through to FSS and apologized for taking so long, but
couldn't find a phone. As FSS was in the area they knew what the
phone service was like and understood. When the briefer looked it up
he sounded a bit surprised but unconcerned..."Oh, yah...you are a bit
over due". Quite unlike having the tower chew me out at BJC for not
updating my ETA "with them" even though I'd been talking to Denver App
for nearly an hour as we zig zagged around some monstrous
thunderstorms which were the biggest ones I'd ever seen.

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)


>
>>
>> Were you speaking of airports without wx briefers? (E.g., on landing
>> at Stephenville, a field at the western edge of Newfoundland, we
>> discovered the voice we were talking to belonged to a guy in St.
>> John's. Obviously he'd have trouble seeing us take off.)
>>
>> vince norris

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Roger Halstead" > wrote in message
...
>
> Taken to the other extreme here in the states...I flew down to Lee
> Gilmer (LGM) in Gainsville GA some years ago around Christmas time. I
> was on a VFR flight plan with flight following.
>
> Atlanta Center kept me wayyyy up high until we were past the mountains
>

How did they do that?

[Roger Halstead]

On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 19:06:33 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
> wrote:

>
>"Roger Halstead" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> Taken to the other extreme here in the states...I flew down to Lee
>> Gilmer (LGM) in Gainsville GA some years ago around Christmas time. I
>> was on a VFR flight plan with flight following.
>>
>> Atlanta Center kept me wayyyy up high until we were past the mountains
>>
>
>How did they do that?

Common sense mostly.

I had mentioned starting down sooner and they *suggested* that I stay
up there until farther south of the mountains.

It was pitch black below. I took their advice. They kept me up there
by kinda, sorta, indicating, it might be safer until well clear of the
mountains where I could remain in contact closer to the airport.

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)
>

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Roger Halstead" > wrote in message
...
>
> Common sense mostly.
>
> I had mentioned starting down sooner and they *suggested* that I stay
> up there until farther south of the mountains.
>
> It was pitch black below. I took their advice. They kept me up there
> by kinda, sorta, indicating, it might be safer until well clear of the
> mountains where I could remain in contact closer to the airport.
>

Then they didn't keep you up, you elected to remain at altitude.

[Roger Halstead]

On Sat, 16 Aug 2003 21:21:29 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
> wrote:

>
>"Roger Halstead" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> Common sense mostly.
>>
>> I had mentioned starting down sooner and they *suggested* that I stay
>> up there until farther south of the mountains.
>>
>> It was pitch black below. I took their advice. They kept me up there
>> by kinda, sorta, indicating, it might be safer until well clear of the
>> mountains where I could remain in contact closer to the airport.
>>
>
>Then they didn't keep you up, you elected to remain at altitude.

Their advise kept me up there. <:-))
Both correct from a semantics approach.

I know where you're headed, but I still prefer these terms.

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)


>

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Roger Halstead" > wrote in message
...
>
> Their advise kept me up there. <:-))
>

No, your decision not to descend kept you up there. Their advice was good,
but you were free to decline it.


>
> Both correct from a semantics approach.
>

No.


>
> I know where you're headed, but I still prefer these terms.
>

You said they kept you way up high, but that didn't happen.

[Roger Halstead]

On Sun, 17 Aug 2003 19:17:01 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
> wrote:

>
>"Roger Halstead" > wrote in message
...
>>

>
>You said they kept you way up high, but that didn't happen.

Call it what you want. Their advise kept me up there and it is
scemantically correct.

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2).



>

[Roger Halstead]

On 18 Aug 2003 15:41:53 GMT, Stan Gosnell >
wrote:

>Roger Halstead > wrote in
:
>
>> scemantically correct
>
That's cuz my OE spell checker can't .... <:-))

It should be semantically

>??? That's a new word for me. What does it mean? I can't find it in any
>dictionary I have.

It's sorta something kinda like a circuit diagram in broken English.

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)

[Stan Gosnell]

Roger Halstead > wrote in
:

> It should be semantically

I was waffling between that and schematically.

>>??? That's a new word for me. What does it mean? I can't find it in
>>any dictionary I have.
>
> It's sorta something kinda like a circuit diagram in broken English.

OK. Enough chain-pulling for today. ;-)

--
Regards,

Stan