The Gyro House

[Jonathan Goodish]

Does anyone have experience with The Gyro House in Auburn, CA?

I ordered two factory-new Sigma-Tek vac gyros from them recently, with
air freight. When I ordered them, I mentioned repeatedly that I was
looking for factory new gyros and preferred that the gyros be no more
than 30-60 days old. The Gyro House confirmed that the gyros were
factory new, and that they had some on the shelf that were within the 30
day window.

When the gyros arrived, one of them appeared to have been repackaged
(shrink-wrapped) by The Gyro House with one of their stickers on top of
the instrument (under the shrink-wrap.) This gyro was date-stamped
April 2005.

The other gyro appeared to be in the original Sigma-Tek packaging and
was date-stamped November 2005.

Having concerns about the repackaging and shelf-life of the gyro from
April, I called Sigma-Tek, who told me that their gyros have a
recommended 6 month shelf life. They suggested that I ask The Gyro
House to replace the unit dated April 2005.

The Gyro House told me that I shouldn't have any concerns about a gyro
that's been on the shelf for 8 months, but they weren't willing to
commit that the gyro wouldn't have a reduced life-span. They did offer
to locate a newer gyro and ship it to me as an exchange, but they balked
at my request for expedited shipping even though they did not ship me
what I'd asked for the first time. They further told me that they would
be losing money on the returned gyro, because it would have to be
"re-worked" due to the fact that it was outside of Sigma-Tek's 6 month
window.

So... I'm trying to digest this situation and determine whether or not
I'm making a big deal out of nothing. Is 8 months on the shelf really
too long? Should receiving a re-packaged "factory new" gyro raise a red
flag, or is this a common procedure for these types of shops? Any other
first-hand experiences or advice?



Thanks,
JKG

[Mike Rapoport]

"Jonathan Goodish" > wrote in message
...
> Does anyone have experience with The Gyro House in Auburn, CA?
>
> I ordered two factory-new Sigma-Tek vac gyros from them recently, with
> air freight. When I ordered them, I mentioned repeatedly that I was
> looking for factory new gyros and preferred that the gyros be no more
> than 30-60 days old. The Gyro House confirmed that the gyros were
> factory new, and that they had some on the shelf that were within the 30
> day window.
>
> When the gyros arrived, one of them appeared to have been repackaged
> (shrink-wrapped) by The Gyro House with one of their stickers on top of
> the instrument (under the shrink-wrap.) This gyro was date-stamped
> April 2005.
>
> The other gyro appeared to be in the original Sigma-Tek packaging and
> was date-stamped November 2005.
>
> Having concerns about the repackaging and shelf-life of the gyro from
> April, I called Sigma-Tek, who told me that their gyros have a
> recommended 6 month shelf life. They suggested that I ask The Gyro
> House to replace the unit dated April 2005.
>
> The Gyro House told me that I shouldn't have any concerns about a gyro
> that's been on the shelf for 8 months, but they weren't willing to
> commit that the gyro wouldn't have a reduced life-span. They did offer
> to locate a newer gyro and ship it to me as an exchange, but they balked
> at my request for expedited shipping even though they did not ship me
> what I'd asked for the first time. They further told me that they would
> be losing money on the returned gyro, because it would have to be
> "re-worked" due to the fact that it was outside of Sigma-Tek's 6 month
> window.
>
> So... I'm trying to digest this situation and determine whether or not
> I'm making a big deal out of nothing. Is 8 months on the shelf really
> too long? Should receiving a re-packaged "factory new" gyro raise a red
> flag, or is this a common procedure for these types of shops? Any other
> first-hand experiences or advice?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
> JKG

They should send you what you ordered and not make substitutions or excuses.
If they will lose money on the gyro because it is too old, then why should
you be stuck with it at full price? They should never have sent the old
gyro to you and if they lose money because of their decision, that is their
problem, not yours.

Mike
MU-2

[Michelle P]

Jonathan,
I ordered a Gyro from them last fall. I was satisfied but not entirely
happy with the final outcome.
The original gyro I ordered was supposed to be a re-built sigma-tek. It
apparently blew up during pre ship testing. I waited several days for
the gyro to arrive. It didn't. I called them and he apologized. Ok what
do you have? We started talking and I thought we agreed on a New
Sigma-tek. A new RC Allen arrived. I called he apologized again. I
really needed the gyro at this point since I could not fly to work due
to weather. I installed it. It works but it was not what I wanted.
Michelle

Jonathan Goodish wrote:

>Does anyone have experience with The Gyro House in Auburn, CA?
>
>
>
>
>Thanks,
>JKG
>
>

[Jonathan Goodish]

In article >,
Michelle P > wrote:
> Jonathan,
> I ordered a Gyro from them last fall. I was satisfied but not entirely
> happy with the final outcome.
> The original gyro I ordered was supposed to be a re-built sigma-tek. It
> apparently blew up during pre ship testing. I waited several days for
> the gyro to arrive. It didn't. I called them and he apologized. Ok what
> do you have? We started talking and I thought we agreed on a New
> Sigma-tek. A new RC Allen arrived. I called he apologized again. I
> really needed the gyro at this point since I could not fly to work due
> to weather. I installed it. It works but it was not what I wanted.


Michelle & Mike,

Thanks for your responses.

When I called to question the date, I was immediately transferred to the
president, Rich Anderson. He had one of his managers with him, and they
initially said that there was nothing wrong with an 8 month old gyro.
When I told them that Sigma-Tek disagreed, they said "since Sigma-Tek
told you that, we'll find you a newer one." Sigma-Tek did ask me who
sold me an 8 month old gyro.

I will confess, I did expect them to take responsibility for the
mistake, which they did not, even though they did locate a newer gyro.
I also expected them to at least negotiate expedited shipping so that I
could get the gyro to my mechanic before I leave on vacation on Friday.
I was told that there was no chance that they would pay for expedited
shipping. I probably should have ponied up the extra for shipping
because I really do need the mechanic to work on this while I'm on
vacation over the next week. I guess my schedule isn't important to
them.

I will say that the attitude gyro is what I ordered, it appears to be in
original Sigma-Tek packaging with documentation (unopened), and is dated
November 2005. So I'm happy with that. I am not happy that they tried
to pass off an 8 month old repackaged gyro as new, and that they acted
like they got caught in the bank vault when I told them I had talked
with Sigma-Tek.

We'll see how the replacement goes. It may get here by Friday morning,
which will enable me to get it to my mechanic before I leave. If it
doesn't, I may have him do the AI and send the DGs back for refund, and
buy someplace else.



JKG

[Denny]

It wouldn't hurt to mention to them that the significant percentage of
active GA plane owners are following this story with interest... I know
i just made a mental note of where not to do business...

denny

[Nathan Young]

On 8 Dec 2005 03:59:29 -0800, "Denny" > wrote:

>It wouldn't hurt to mention to them that the significant percentage of
>active GA plane owners are following this story with interest...

Interesting comment, I have always wondered how many people are
involved with the rec.aviation NGs. I think we are a small subset
(maybe 1 or 2%) of active GA pilots.

WAGs folllow...
r.a.* has perhaps several hundred (regular) posters, and several
thousand lurkers? In contrast, there are something like 600k pilots
in the US... Maybe 100-150k of those are active GA pilots?

It would be interesting to see Google/dejanews statistics on how many
times archived threads are read.

-Nathan

[[email protected]]

Jim Burns > wrote:
: Over the weekend the DG in our Aztec turned TU. (or heading bug down)

: I googled aircraft gyro repair and overhaul and an Avweb article came up
: that mentioned The Gyro House. So I pulled their website up. It showed
: that they had overhauled autopilot DG's so I emailed them for a quote on a
: direct replacement for ours.

: $625 plus $1200 core charge. The $625 was comparable to other overhaulers,
: I have no idea if the $1200 core charge is reasonable but after reading this
: thread I'm glad I sent ours out to a local shop for repair.

I would have sworn we sent ours to a place called The Gyro House, but it was
in Kansas IIRC. They were very reasonable... $600 to initially have the AI
overhauled, and the DG replaced with a sigmatek. After we installed the overhauled
DG, it had a bit of "jitter," shaking about \pm 2 degrees in flight. I called the
guy, and it wasn't a problem to swap it out. We ended up with our *old* DG sigmatek
(EDO-AIR) that he'd overhauled and shelved in the meantime (1 week or so). Very
pleased.

-Cory


--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

[Jim Burns]

Over the weekend the DG in our Aztec turned TU. (or heading bug down)

I googled aircraft gyro repair and overhaul and an Avweb article came up
that mentioned The Gyro House. So I pulled their website up. It showed
that they had overhauled autopilot DG's so I emailed them for a quote on a
direct replacement for ours.

$625 plus $1200 core charge. The $625 was comparable to other overhaulers,
I have no idea if the $1200 core charge is reasonable but after reading this
thread I'm glad I sent ours out to a local shop for repair.

If they can't tell 6 months from 8 months or tell a Sigma Tek from an RC
Allen, I wonder if they know which man goes on which bills. With my luck,
I'd get $12 George Washingtons back instead of $12 Ben Franklins.

Jim

[Jim Burns]

When we bought our Aztec, the owner had made some comments about having all
the gyros overhauled before we picked it up. So we agreed to pay for it and
he reduced the purchase price by the cost of removing, overhauling, and
reinstalling all three gyros. This was in August 2004. The TC was sent to
Nu-Tec, the DG and the AI were sent to Aircraft Quality Instruments in
Wichita, KS. All returned with work orders saying something to the effect
of no damage found, replaced all bearings, complete overhaul.

The DG went out 18 months/400hrs after overhaul. AQI has a 12 month no
hassle warranty. As they say... timing is everything. We sent it to a
local shop with a faster turn around time.

Jim

[Mark Hansen]

On 12/8/2005 05:38, Nathan Young wrote:

> On 8 Dec 2005 03:59:29 -0800, "Denny" > wrote:
>
>>It wouldn't hurt to mention to them that the significant percentage of
>>active GA plane owners are following this story with interest...
>
> Interesting comment, I have always wondered how many people are
> involved with the rec.aviation NGs. I think we are a small subset
> (maybe 1 or 2%) of active GA pilots.
>
> WAGs folllow...
> r.a.* has perhaps several hundred (regular) posters, and several
> thousand lurkers? In contrast, there are something like 600k pilots
> in the US... Maybe 100-150k of those are active GA pilots?
>
> It would be interesting to see Google/dejanews statistics on how many
> times archived threads are read.
>
> -Nathan

Perhaps AOPA can help? Can they be petitioned to start a customer
comments section, where pilot/owners can air their horror stories
about problem vendors?

--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Sacramento, CA

[George Patterson]

Nathan Young wrote:

> WAGs folllow...
> r.a.* has perhaps several hundred (regular) posters, and several
> thousand lurkers? In contrast, there are something like 600k pilots
> in the US... Maybe 100-150k of those are active GA pilots?

But the only ones that Gyro House has to worry about are those who make the
decisions about what equipment to purchase -- mainly aircraft owners. So maybe
we're down to 60 or 70 thousand? Gyro House also has to worry about what RAO
readers will have to say to owners who don't read the groups and how much that
might affect their purchasing decisions.

George Patterson
Coffee is only a way of stealing time that should by rights belong to
your slightly older self.

[Dave Butler]

Mark Hansen wrote:

> Perhaps AOPA can help? Can they be petitioned to start a customer
> comments section, where pilot/owners can air their horror stories
> about problem vendors?

I'm sure AOPA is aware of the problems avweb had when they allowed anyone to
post on their fora. I doubt AOPA would be willing open themselves up for that
liability. Don't recall the details, but someone on one of avweb's fora
badmouthed a well-known aviation attorney, and the attorney either sued or
threatened to sue. I think avweb took down their fora after that, but I haven't
checked lately.

Dave

[Mark Hansen]

On 12/8/2005 09:01, Dave Butler wrote:

> Mark Hansen wrote:
>
>> Perhaps AOPA can help? Can they be petitioned to start a customer
>> comments section, where pilot/owners can air their horror stories
>> about problem vendors?
>
> I'm sure AOPA is aware of the problems avweb had when they allowed anyone to
> post on their fora. I doubt AOPA would be willing open themselves up for that
> liability. Don't recall the details, but someone on one of avweb's fora
> badmouthed a well-known aviation attorney, and the attorney either sued or
> threatened to sue. I think avweb took down their fora after that, but I haven't
> checked lately.
>
> Dave

Okay, then the Better Business Bureau or perhaps even the Federal Trade
Commission. Complaints here can carry a lot of weight.

--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Sacramento, CA

[Mark Hansen]

On 12/8/2005 09:26, Mark Hansen wrote:

> On 12/8/2005 09:01, Dave Butler wrote:
>
>> Mark Hansen wrote:
>>
>>> Perhaps AOPA can help? Can they be petitioned to start a customer
>>> comments section, where pilot/owners can air their horror stories
>>> about problem vendors?
>>
>> I'm sure AOPA is aware of the problems avweb had when they allowed anyone to
>> post on their fora. I doubt AOPA would be willing open themselves up for that
>> liability. Don't recall the details, but someone on one of avweb's fora
>> badmouthed a well-known aviation attorney, and the attorney either sued or
>> threatened to sue. I think avweb took down their fora after that, but I haven't
>> checked lately.
>>
>> Dave
>
> Okay, then the Better Business Bureau or perhaps even the Federal Trade
> Commission. Complaints here can carry a lot of weight.
>

In fact, I checked with the BBB, and they have no complaints on file
for this company. Perhaps Jonathan should file one? It may cause the
company to see their 'mistake' and work to rectify it.

--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Sacramento, CA

[Robert M. Gary]

It sounds like they didn't know what the shelf live was but then
corrected it after you pointed it out. It sounds like what you really
want is an apology but those seem rare around here. I had a shop over
charge me $600 on a $200 bill because one A&P forgot to log out when he
went to lunch. The only reason I caught it was because I had left with
the plane at the time he was logged in. Even with all that evidence the
manager first told me the computer doesn't make mistakes. Then he later
sent me a fax telling me what happened and correcting the bill.
However, never an "I'm sorry" with my $600.

-Robert

[Jonathan Goodish]

In article . com>,
"Robert M. Gary" > wrote:

> It sounds like they didn't know what the shelf live was but then
> corrected it after you pointed it out. It sounds like what you really
> want is an apology but those seem rare around here. I had a shop over

I really didn't care about the apology, what I really wanted was for
them to make it right. "Make it right" should consist of falling on the
sword and getting me the CORRECT order as soon as humanly possible.
Instead, they acted as if they were doing me a favor by offering to send
me what I had originally asked for.

By the way, I sent an email to their president last night "to express my
disappointment" with the end result. I haven't had a reply. They
promised to call me with the tracking number for the replacement that
they're shipping via the "super saver" route, but haven't heard back on
that, either.

I'm not out to trash these guys. All I'm interested in is reporting the
blow-by-blow factual details. Anyone reading is free to make his or her
own judgment about The Gyro House based on my experience with them.



JKG

[Juan Jimenez]

"Jonathan Goodish" > wrote in message
...
> In article . com>,
> "Robert M. Gary" > wrote:
>
>> It sounds like they didn't know what the shelf live was but then
>> corrected it after you pointed it out. It sounds like what you really
>> want is an apology but those seem rare around here. I had a shop over
>
> I really didn't care about the apology, what I really wanted was for
> them to make it right. "Make it right" should consist of falling on the
> sword and getting me the CORRECT order as soon as humanly possible.
> Instead, they acted as if they were doing me a favor by offering to send
> me what I had originally asked for.

Jonathan, you already know the answer to all of this. Paid with a CC? Return
everything and dispute the charge. If they bitch, have your lawyer draw up a
nastygram. By cutting them more slack you're telling them that they're
business practices are OK because people will let them get away with what
they do. It really is that simple.

[Jonathan Goodish]

In article >,
"Juan Jimenez" > wrote:
> > I really didn't care about the apology, what I really wanted was for
> > them to make it right. "Make it right" should consist of falling on the
> > sword and getting me the CORRECT order as soon as humanly possible.
> > Instead, they acted as if they were doing me a favor by offering to send
> > me what I had originally asked for.
>
> Jonathan, you already know the answer to all of this. Paid with a CC? Return
> everything and dispute the charge. If they bitch, have your lawyer draw up a
> nastygram. By cutting them more slack you're telling them that they're
> business practices are OK because people will let them get away with what
> they do. It really is that simple.

I thought about that, and almost went through with it, but my
replacement gyro arrived at the shipper's hub on Friday morning. I had
to drive 50 miles round-trip to get it. It was dated October 2005 and
was in original Sigma-Tek packaging. I really needed the gyros on time,
so I decided to give them one last chance. The end result is that they
did deliver what I asked for, though in the timeframe that I had
requested, and not without some inconvenience to me.

Now, we'll see if they give me the core credit that they promised.



JKG

[Jonathan Goodish]

I wanted to follow up with the conclusion to this ordeal so that others
may benefit in the future.

The Gyro House did agree to send me a replacement gyro for the
"repackaged" one that was 8 months old, though they wouldn't send it
with the priority shipping that I needed to meet my schedule. In order
to get the gyro to my mechanic before I left town, I had it shipped to
the shipper's distribution center and drove to the distribution center
(through the snow) to get it in the morning before I left town.

The new gyro was date stamped October 2005 and was in the original
manufacturer's packaging, so I was pleased with the replacement unit. I
had to pay to ship the "repackaged" gyro back to them to get the credit
(they did charge me when they shipped the replacement.) Once they
received the "repackaged" gyro, they did credit me without a hassle,
though they called me shortly thereafter and tried to tell me that it
was really Sigma-Tek's mistake and not theirs, since Sigma-Tek had
mislabeled the box. I have no idea what their explanation could
possibly mean, and they didn't explain why Sigma-Tek would have placed a
badge for "The Gyro House" on the gyro and then repackaged it
differently from the normal Sigma-Tek packaging, so needless to say
TGH's explanation doesn't make any sense. I refuse to believe that they
didn't know they were sending me a repackaged (and possibly not new)
gyro. But, they gave me the credit without a problem, and that's what
mattered.

They also provided the promised core credit for my old gyros.

I can't say that I wouldn't do business with them again, but before I
did, I would get their agreement on terms & conditions in writing before
the transaction. I suspect that they would be unwilling to make the
same commitments to me in writing that they made on the phone.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure that most other vendors would have performed
any better.


JKG


In article >,
Jonathan Goodish > wrote:

> Does anyone have experience with The Gyro House in Auburn, CA?
>
> I ordered two factory-new Sigma-Tek vac gyros from them recently, with
> air freight. When I ordered them, I mentioned repeatedly that I was
> looking for factory new gyros and preferred that the gyros be no more
> than 30-60 days old. The Gyro House confirmed that the gyros were
> factory new, and that they had some on the shelf that were within the 30
> day window.
>
> When the gyros arrived, one of them appeared to have been repackaged
> (shrink-wrapped) by The Gyro House with one of their stickers on top of
> the instrument (under the shrink-wrap.) This gyro was date-stamped
> April 2005.
>
> The other gyro appeared to be in the original Sigma-Tek packaging and
> was date-stamped November 2005.
>
> Having concerns about the repackaging and shelf-life of the gyro from
> April, I called Sigma-Tek, who told me that their gyros have a
> recommended 6 month shelf life. They suggested that I ask The Gyro
> House to replace the unit dated April 2005.
>
> The Gyro House told me that I shouldn't have any concerns about a gyro
> that's been on the shelf for 8 months, but they weren't willing to
> commit that the gyro wouldn't have a reduced life-span. They did offer
> to locate a newer gyro and ship it to me as an exchange, but they balked
> at my request for expedited shipping even though they did not ship me
> what I'd asked for the first time. They further told me that they would
> be losing money on the returned gyro, because it would have to be
> "re-worked" due to the fact that it was outside of Sigma-Tek's 6 month
> window.
>
> So... I'm trying to digest this situation and determine whether or not
> I'm making a big deal out of nothing. Is 8 months on the shelf really
> too long? Should receiving a re-packaged "factory new" gyro raise a red
> flag, or is this a common procedure for these types of shops? Any other
> first-hand experiences or advice?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
> JKG

[Doodybutch]

I have had good luck with the Gyro House (2 encounters), Jon, but I will be
certain in the future to specify EXACTLY what I expect from them. Your
posting was very helpful.

DB

"Jonathan Goodish" > wrote in message
...
>I wanted to follow up with the conclusion to this ordeal so that others
> may benefit in the future.
>
> The Gyro House did agree to send me a replacement gyro for the
> "repackaged" one that was 8 months old, though they wouldn't send it
> with the priority shipping that I needed to meet my schedule. In order
> to get the gyro to my mechanic before I left town, I had it shipped to
> the shipper's distribution center and drove to the distribution center
> (through the snow) to get it in the morning before I left town.
>
> The new gyro was date stamped October 2005 and was in the original
> manufacturer's packaging, so I was pleased with the replacement unit. I
> had to pay to ship the "repackaged" gyro back to them to get the credit
> (they did charge me when they shipped the replacement.) Once they
> received the "repackaged" gyro, they did credit me without a hassle,
> though they called me shortly thereafter and tried to tell me that it
> was really Sigma-Tek's mistake and not theirs, since Sigma-Tek had
> mislabeled the box. I have no idea what their explanation could
> possibly mean, and they didn't explain why Sigma-Tek would have placed a
> badge for "The Gyro House" on the gyro and then repackaged it
> differently from the normal Sigma-Tek packaging, so needless to say
> TGH's explanation doesn't make any sense. I refuse to believe that they
> didn't know they were sending me a repackaged (and possibly not new)
> gyro. But, they gave me the credit without a problem, and that's what
> mattered.
>
> They also provided the promised core credit for my old gyros.
>
> I can't say that I wouldn't do business with them again, but before I
> did, I would get their agreement on terms & conditions in writing before
> the transaction. I suspect that they would be unwilling to make the
> same commitments to me in writing that they made on the phone.
>
> Unfortunately, I'm not sure that most other vendors would have performed
> any better.
>
>
> JKG
>
>
> In article >,
> Jonathan Goodish > wrote:
>
>> Does anyone have experience with The Gyro House in Auburn, CA?
>>
>> I ordered two factory-new Sigma-Tek vac gyros from them recently, with
>> air freight. When I ordered them, I mentioned repeatedly that I was
>> looking for factory new gyros and preferred that the gyros be no more
>> than 30-60 days old. The Gyro House confirmed that the gyros were
>> factory new, and that they had some on the shelf that were within the 30
>> day window.
>>
>> When the gyros arrived, one of them appeared to have been repackaged
>> (shrink-wrapped) by The Gyro House with one of their stickers on top of
>> the instrument (under the shrink-wrap.) This gyro was date-stamped
>> April 2005.
>>
>> The other gyro appeared to be in the original Sigma-Tek packaging and
>> was date-stamped November 2005.
>>
>> Having concerns about the repackaging and shelf-life of the gyro from
>> April, I called Sigma-Tek, who told me that their gyros have a
>> recommended 6 month shelf life. They suggested that I ask The Gyro
>> House to replace the unit dated April 2005.
>>
>> The Gyro House told me that I shouldn't have any concerns about a gyro
>> that's been on the shelf for 8 months, but they weren't willing to
>> commit that the gyro wouldn't have a reduced life-span. They did offer
>> to locate a newer gyro and ship it to me as an exchange, but they balked
>> at my request for expedited shipping even though they did not ship me
>> what I'd asked for the first time. They further told me that they would
>> be losing money on the returned gyro, because it would have to be
>> "re-worked" due to the fact that it was outside of Sigma-Tek's 6 month
>> window.
>>
>> So... I'm trying to digest this situation and determine whether or not
>> I'm making a big deal out of nothing. Is 8 months on the shelf really
>> too long? Should receiving a re-packaged "factory new" gyro raise a red
>> flag, or is this a common procedure for these types of shops? Any other
>> first-hand experiences or advice?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>> JKG